Support NeoGAF

[Newtype-001]

Because he's a Microsoft insider.

---

lol @ these posts clamoring for Kishimoto to take over the series' art after Toriyama. Among the mangaka who deserve to work on Dragon Quest, one man stands taller than everyone else;

Spoiler

only half joking, the man can draw some incredible stuff when he really puts his mind to it

Im ready for togashi to bless us.

 

[Busaiku]

Yeah, Pennywise83 isn' saying Dragon Quest XI on 3DS is happening, just that it'd likely sell better. Mr. Horii putting it on PS4 is not out of sales potential, but so he can make the project he wants.
I don't get how Verendus knowing it's coming to PS4 invalidates that.

Unless you're telling me Verendus knows 5 million people preordered a game that hasn't been announced.

 

[Jay RaR]

It's great that DQXI will only be released on consoles only, but I hope the performance isn't gimped by PS3/Wii U hardware.

Spoiler

And that it comes to PC.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Because he's a Microsoft insider.

---

lol @ these posts clamoring for Kishimoto to take over the series' art after Toriyama. Among the mangaka who deserve to work on Dragon Quest, one man stands taller than everyone else;

Spoiler

only half joking, the man can draw some incredible stuff when he really puts his mind to it

Togashi would just curse a game into development hell for the next decade

 

[Wynnebeck]

Yeah, Pennywise83 isn' saying Dragon Quest XI on 3DS is happening, just that it'd likely sell better. Mr. Horii putting it on PS4 is not out of sales potential, but so he can make the project he wants.
I don't get how Verendus knowing it's coming to PS4 invalidates that.

Unless you're telling me Verendus knows 5 million people preordered a game that hasn't been announced.

It's his insistence that a console Dragon Quest is automatically a bad business decision compared to just releasing it on 3DS that has people laughing. It's almost like talking to a brick wall.

 

[nckillthegrimace]

Even if it's true, and it probably is given the confidence on display, I question the wisdom of putting a game targeted primarily at the Japanese market on a platform with 2 million units sold rather than on the platform with 20+ million units sold. Especially after you've prepped that audience with eight different releases in that series, including two this year.

That's gotta be a big bag of money.

 

[Busaiku]

It's his insistence that a console Dragon Quest is automatically a bad business decision compared to just releasing it on 3DS that has people laughing. It's almost like talking to a brick wall.

Pennywise83 is making statements based on past data and the current trends of the market.
It's not fanaticism, but a very valid argument.
Everyone arguing for PS4 success, on the other hand are basing it purely on their involvement with the platform, not actual data.

Verendus is taking this as an indication in regards Pennywise83's potential enjoyment of the game, which isn't the argument at all.

 

[Snakeyes]

Even if it's true, and it probably is given the confidence on display, I question the wisdom of putting a game targeted primarily at the Japanese market on a platform with 2 million units sold rather than on the platform with 20+ million units sold. Especially after you've prepped that audience with eight different releases in that series, including two this year.

That's gotta be a big bag of money.

Because Square are hoping it will help boost the sales of the platform currently sitting at 2 million. I'm sure Sony has thrown in a significant amount of cash to sweeten the deal as well.

 

[Oregano]

Even if it's true, and it probably is given the confidence on display, I question the wisdom of putting a game targeted primarily at the Japanese market on a platform with 2 million units sold rather than on the platform with 20+ million units sold. Especially after you've prepped that audience with eight different releases in that series, including two this year.

That's gotta be a big bag of money.

Just want to add the note that it's not just a question of install base. Per the Media Create Top 1000 for 2014 the 3DS represented over 50% of software sales for 2014 with less than 25% of the software releases and is the only system with a proven track records of supporting multimillion sellers.

NOTE: That doesn't mean there aren't valid reasons for choosing a non-3DS system.

 

[Vena]

Just want to add the note that it's not just a question of install base. Per the Media Create Top 1000 for 2014 the 3DS represented over 50% of software sales for 2014 with less than 25% of the software releases and is the only system with a proven track records of supporting multimillion sellers.

NOTE: That doesn't mean there aren't valid reasons for choosing a non-3DS system.

I'm sad that you edited that 2914. I want the 3DS to last 900 more years!

 

[Oregano]

I'm sad that you edited that 2914. I want the 3DS to last 900 more years!

Haha, you caught me. Typing on a tablet can be difficult but my Kindle is even worse because it constantly autocorrects words and I have to triple check every post.

 

[Verendus]

Pennywise83 is making statements based on past data and the current trends of the market.
It's not fanaticism, but a very valid argument.
Everyone arguing for PS4 success, on the other hand are basing it purely on their involvement with the platform, not actual data.

Verendus is taking this as an indication in regards Pennywise83's potential enjoyment of the game, which isn't the argument at all.

 

[The Last One]

OMFG

 

[Garou]

Because Square are hoping it will help boost the sales of the platform currently sitting at 2 million. I'm sure Sony has thrown in a significant amount of cash to sweeten the deal as well.

You must be talking about the Wii U (currently at 2.5 mil) because the PS4 has only sold 1.5 mil in Japan.

 

[Elios83]

Pennywise83 is making statements based on past data and the current trends of the market.
It's not fanaticism, but a very valid argument.

Verendus is taking this as an indication in regards Pennywise83's potential enjoyment of the game, which isn't the argument at all.

I've not been following this thread closely but repeating the same concept over and over does indeed reveal a certain personal investement.
An other person could have made the same argument in a single post stating "I think that without a 3DS version they're losing sales in Japan". A single sentence and that's it.

BTW what's the point of discussing about 3DS anyway if the director/creator has been saying for a long time and just re-confirmed that it will be for home console(s)? Unless we're assuming that he might be lying, 3DS should already be out of the speculation.
At this point let's wait for the announcement.

 

[theprodigy]

Pennywise83 is making statements based on past data and the current trends of the market.
It's not fanaticism, but a very valid argument.
Everyone arguing for PS4 success, on the other hand are basing it purely on their involvement with the platform, not actual data.

Verendus is taking this as an indication in regards Pennywise83's potential enjoyment of the game, which isn't the argument at all.

i mean, look at the poster we're talking about here...

 

[vinnygambini]

Verendus pls

He's just mentioning that the Japanese Gaming Industry is not striving per se and that the only healthy platform currently, is undoubtedly the 3DS as per Media Create - why would a series which has important ties to Japan, have consumers that are arguably already on the 3DS platform, forgo such a territory for greater international appeal (PS4)?

I think he raises a valid point, but just poorly formulated.

 

[Wereroku]

Even if it's true, and it probably is given the confidence on display, I question the wisdom of putting a game targeted primarily at the Japanese market on a platform with 2 million units sold rather than on the platform with 20+ million units sold. Especially after you've prepped that audience with eight different releases in that series, including two this year.

That's gotta be a big bag of money.

I am sure it's being funded by them in some way if it is coming to the PS4. Realistically the only reason we are entertaining the notion of it skipping the 3ds is because of Horii's statements. Honestly though all the talk about cross platform with PS3 is a little strange if the thought process is based on Square wanting to push Japanese gamers to the PS4. The only way a theoretical DQXI works to do that is if it is a pure exclusive or PS4/PC. Any other platform will insure many go with the old gen system.

Verendus pls

He's just mentioning that the Japanese Gaming Industry is not striving per se and that the only healthy platform currently, is undoubtedly the 3DS as per Media Create - why would a series which has important ties to Japan, have consumers that are arguably already on the 3DS platform, forgo such a territory for greater international appeal (PS4)?

I think he raises a valid point, but just poorly formulated.

He was given a reason he just completely ignored it. If Square is all in on pushing the PS4 in JPN the only choice they have is to go hard with an exclusive game like DQXI. Any other strategy will fail due to not having enough marketplace power.

 

[nckillthegrimace]

Because Square are hoping it will help boost the sales of the platform currently sitting at 2 million. I'm sure Sony has thrown in a significant amount of cash to sweeten the deal as well.

If it's PS3/PS4, then I don't think that's going to work out given the split on games like DQH.

But yes, I'm sure the question is whether the significant loss in domestic sales is offset by sales gained internationally, potential for increasing the userbase domestically for future SE games that also have Western appeal, potential for growing the brand in the west, and any money Sony gives SE. That begins to make more sense, especially if the guy who owns the IP insists on it.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

You must be talking about the Wii U (currently at 2.5 mil) because the PS4 has only sold 1.5 mil in Japan.

The WiiU is, sadly, past its prime. The PS4 is just starting and it'll explode when FFXV, Star Ocean 5, and KH3 launches (which should be coming before DQXI).

Square might be betting on the long term. DQXI is a 2016 release at the very earliest. By then the NX must be near release and the 3DS on its last legs.

I don't presume to know the inner working of Square but judging from the creator's statements and the timing of the release my logic says PS4 is the way to go with a possible PS3 release too.

But the hell if I know.

 

[Busaiku]

PS4 will revive consoles in Japan and usher in a new era for Square Enix.
Praise be.

Dragon Quest XI to be the best selling in the franchise history, Verendus knows what's up.

i mean, look at the poster we're talking about here...

Yeah, Pennywise83 does have other interests, but as far as sales go, the argument is valid.

 

[SgtCobra]

Verendus pls

He's just mentioning that the Japanese Gaming Industry is not striving per se and that the only healthy platform currently, is undoubtedly the 3DS as per Media Create - why would a series which has important ties to Japan, have consumers that are arguably already on the 3DS platform, forgo such a territory for greater international appeal (PS4)?

I think he raises a valid point, but just poorly formulated.

When releasing certain games it's not always about "which console can we sell the most units on?"
Sometimes pubs/console manufacturers want to accomplish something, or kick off a certain trend. Perhaps there might be some moneyhats involved but one thing is clear: Sony as well as Square Enix don't want the console market in Japan to die, and if it means that they'll have to put their most successful Japanese franchise on Sony consoles then so be it.

I think in this case it'd be a worthwhile "gamble", while it may not generate the same numbers as a 3DS/mobile version it may function as something else which may generate Square Enix a respectable amount of revenue in the future (see: the more PS4 owners in Japan the more RPG games they'll buy on that console)
Also, the PS4 is very popular in the west which can also help the game's sales numbers to grow which is a nice extra. There is almost no chance that DQXI won't come to the west if it's releasing on Sony consoles.

People need to think outside of the box sometimes, it's not always about the revenue something can generate but sometimes it goes a bit further than that.

Btw, I thought people would get the memo when SCEJs president said "welcome back home" to Horii.

 

[Wereroku]

PS4 will revive consoles in Japan and usher in a new era for Square Enix.
Praise be.

I know you are being sarcastic but you have to admit if there is any game that can get Japanese gamer's interested in the ps4 it would be something with the power of the DQ series.

 

[klee123]

I know you are being sarcastic but you have to admit if there is any game that can get Japanese gamer's interested in the ps4 it would be something with the power of the DQ series.

I think they would prefer it if it was on their handheld of choice instead. It's just easier for them to argue since the 3DS also happens to be the best selling dedicated gaming device in Japan at the moment.

I mean after all, when MH switched to 3DS (and this was before Vita was released) they certainly didn't mind.

 

[Busaiku]

I know you are being sarcastic but you have to admit if there is any game that can get Japanese gamer's interested in the ps4 it would be something with the power of the DQ series.

Of course it's likely gonna help PS4, and it will likely make SE/Sony a bunch of money.
Will it be decline in the franchise though? Most likely.
Based on the state of things it may be the lowest in the franchise history, but that would still be a ton of units.

However, Mr. Horii has enough money, so he can choose to do whatever he wants with the franchise.
Does this mean it's the best move financially? Probably not, but it's his decision to make.

 

[Vena]

If it's PS3/PS4, then I don't think that's going to work out given the split on games like DQH.

But yes, I'm sure the question is whether the significant loss in domestic sales is offset by sales gained internationally, potential for increasing the userbase domestically for future SE games that also have Western appeal, potential for growing the brand in the west, and any money Sony gives SE. That begins to make more sense, especially if the guy who owns the IP insists on it.

I can't imagine a PS4 exclusive, SO5 isn't even PS4 exclusive.

Horii has been hoping for the resurgence of consoles for some time, and has seen the mobile expansion as a bubble. SE is throwing everything they have at the PS4 (and PS3 and Vita, because the former is entirely unjustifiable on its own unless the title is strongly western aligned). DQ is inevitable to further push this agenda.

Of course, we can remain utterly confused by the eight (one yet to be released) DQ titles on the 3DS! And forgive me if, all things considered, I don't think SE to be the greatest of foreseers.

I know you are being sarcastic but you have to admit if there is any game that can get Japanese gamer's interested in the ps4 it would be something with the power of the DQ series.

You mean Splatoon?

 

[test_account]

Verendus pls

He's just mentioning that the Japanese Gaming Industry is not striving per se and that the only healthy platform currently, is undoubtedly the 3DS as per Media Create - why would a series which has important ties to Japan, have consumers that are arguably already on the 3DS platform, forgo such a territory for greater international appeal (PS4)?

I think he raises a valid point, but just poorly formulated.

Well, Square Enix know about the 3DS sales. They're not going to go with a business solution (whatever it might be) that they think is worse than another. I have no idea what their business plan is, but it has to be something.

 

[Oregano]

Well, Square Enix know about the 3DS sales. They're not going to go with a business solution (whatever it might be) that they think is worse than another. I have no idea what their business plan is, but it has to be something.

The thing is businesses can, have and will be wrong at some point. Even with all their information and market research they can still make big errors in judgement and Square Enix has definitely made mistakes in the past. EDIT: That's not to say they would be wrong in this case but it's not wrong to question their decision making.

 

[Jpop]

Are you only able to post gifs. Because they make a stunning argument for your ability to have discourse.

 

[Busaiku]

The thing is businesses can, have and will be wrong at some point. Even with all their information and market research they can still make big errors in judgement and Square Enix has definitely made mistakes in the past.

Heck, they released Bravely Second like 2 months ago.

 

[Wereroku]

You mean Splatoon?

True. Splatoon was such a wildcard I am glad Nintendo managed to hit something new and big for them. They are at their best when they innovate not to mention it gives some up and coming employees the chance to make their name known.

I think they would prefer it if it was on their handheld of choice instead. It's just easier for them to argue since the 3DS also happens to be the best selling dedicated gaming device in Japan at the moment.

I mean after all, when MH switched to 3DS (and this was before Vita was released) they certainly didn't mind.

True I am sure many would prefer that. I would prefer to get Mario Kart on one of my other consoles because I am a little broke right now and can't afford to buy a WiiU but that's how you get people to adopt a platform. Just like how Valve used HL2 to get people to adopt steam. It's a strong arm tactic and the only way it works is to have a product that has enough consumer pull. However it can a will reduce you sales number if you require additional investment. Such as with valve they probably lost some customers at first but the free cost of the additional service didn't add much of a resistance versus a 399 price tag. Hopefully if they are going through with this it is aligned with some dropping the price of the ps4 as low as they can.

 

[Oregano]

Heck, they released Bravely Second like 2 months ago.

Don't forget Mobius either and that seemed like a title poised for success.

 

[test_account]

The thing is businesses can, have and will be wrong at some point. Even with all their information and market research they can still make big errors in judgement and Square Enix has definitely made mistakes in the past. EDIT: That's not to say they would be wrong in this case but it's not wrong to question their decision making.

Sure, of course, i just mean that Square Enix is well aware of the 3DS situation. If they believed that this was the best choice, i dont see why they would choose something else instead. As a reply to vinnygambini's question why they would concider something else than the 3DS. I guess we will never know the business plans around DQXI in details, but Square Enix must have some belief in it at least (if its coming to PS4 that is). Only time will tell how successful it might be.

 

[Vena]

Sure, of course, i just mean that Square Enix is well aware of the 3DS situation. If they believed that this was the best choice, i dont see why they would choose something else instead. As a reply to vinnygambini's question why they would concider something else than the 3DS.

Money. A big bag of it.

Or the release date is 2017+, in which case the decision is much more logical.

 

[sense]

Are you only able to post gifs. Because they make a stunning argument for your ability to have discourse.

he did explain himself in a post after that but the gif was appropriate considering the posts he quoted. u seem mad for no reason

 

[test_account]

Money.

Or the release date is 2017+, in which case the decision is much more logical.

Yeah, then they think that they (5 T's in a row!) can make more money with that business decisions instead.

 

[Busaiku]

Sure, of course, i just mean that Square Enix is well aware of the 3DS situation. If they believed that this was the best choice, i dont see why they would choose something else instead. As a reply to vinnygambini's question why they would concider something else than the 3DS. I guess we will never know the business plans around DQXI in details, but Square Enix must have some belief in it at least (if its coming to PS4 that is). Only time will tell how successful it might be.

Again, Mr. Horii also legitimately wants to make a bigger game than before.
That wouldn't be possible on 3DS without major sacrifices.
His decision doesn't have to be about making the most money, since regardless of where it ends up, he will still make a lot of it.

 

[Wereroku]

Yeah, then they think that they (5 T's in a row!) can make more money with that business decisions instead.

Most likely it would be a projected increase in value. Either through the projected increase in KH3 or FFXV sales. If you get enough wanted items somewhere people will start to purchase it. Or it will prove that consoles are dead and they will project and downport accordingly.

Again, Mr. Horii also legitimately wants to make a bigger game than before.
That wouldn't be possible on 3DS without major sacrifices.
His decision doesn't have to be about making the most money, since regardless of where it ends up, he will still make a lot of it.

Or this. Sometimes people don't work on what will make me the most money but what would I like to do. If Square is willing to let him do something he has wanted to do that could be all there is to it.

 

[test_account]

Again, Mr. Horii also legitimately wants to make a bigger game than before.
That wouldn't be possible on 3DS without major sacrifices.
His decision doesn't have to be about making the most money, since regardless of where it ends up, he will still make a lot of it.

That could also be one reason, indeed.

Most likely it would be a projected increase in value. Either through the projected increase in KH3 or FFXV sales. If you get enough wanted items somewhere people will start to purchase it. Or it will prove that consoles are dead and they will project and downport accordingly.

Yeah, that can also be what they are planing for.

 

[Oregano]

Sure, of course, i just mean that Square Enix is well aware of the 3DS situation. If they believed that this was the best choice, i dont see why they would choose something else instead. As a reply to vinnygambini's question why they would concider something else than the 3DS. I guess we will never know the business plans around DQXI in details, but Square Enix must have some belief in it at least (if its coming to PS4 that is). Only time will tell how successful it might be.

Sure but you can acknowledge that and still find fault with their decision making.

Hell I'm finally sure Sony and Nintendo had a lot of reasons for the Vita and Wii U but I'm sure people on GAF probably pointed out their flaws long before their success(or lack thereof) was apparent.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Pennywise83 is making statements based on past data and the current trends of the market.
It's not fanaticism, but a very valid argument.
Everyone arguing for PS4 success, on the other hand are basing it purely on their involvement with the platform, not actual data.

Verendus is taking this as an indication in regards Pennywise83's potential enjoyment of the game, which isn't the argument at all.

SCREAMING.

 

[Vena]

Yeah, then they think that they (5 T's in a row!) can make more money with that business decisions instead.

I meant that they are being paid money, in one form or another. Greasing the wheels, so to speak.

There is the possibility of RoI from other investments on the platform from this move, but this is a very large, very uncertain gamble. This also brings into discussion/question, what your sales return has to be to offset the considerably larger production values as well as lost sales potential. There's a lot of gray area here with a lot of unknowns, and plenty of things to poke holes into, lol.

Of course, Horii has been rather adamant in his stance for sometime, so I don't think this was an unforeseen conclusion for a franchise that is effectively held to the word of a single man.

 

[Verendus]

Are you only able to post gifs. Because they make a stunning argument for your ability to have discourse.

Maybe I'm just smart enough to avoid discussing the business sense behind a game that isn't even announced, and no one knows the details of. Well, aside from those involved. Although, if you've seen the breakdown of the commercial viability of Dragon Quest XI on home consoles, are aware of the platforms it's releasing on, can account for any variables, know the details of whatever business arrangement they may or may not have, the creative intention, and also know the general strategic direction being planned for the franchise over the next few years, feel free to put me in my place.

I'm sure it's all fascinating.

I'm certainly not the one who's saying it makes no financial or business sense if the game doesn't release on 3DS without knowing what the details are. As a matter of fact, I'm not saying much at all. Just expressing my honest emotions upon reading posts.

For all you know, it's a Wii U exclusive. Why's everyone sleeping on that? That's a home console. Maybe Nintendo funded the game, and it makes complete sense for Square Enix. Maybe it'll come to the NX in the future too. Who knows? You ever think about that? Exactly.

 

[Busaiku]

Maybe I'm just smart enough to avoid discussing the business sense behind a game that isn't even announced, and no one knows the details of. Well, aside from those involved. Although, if you've seen the breakdown of the commercial viability of Dragon Quest XI on home consoles, are aware of the platforms it's releasing on, can account for any variables, know the details of whatever business arrangement they may or may not have, the creative intention, and also know the general strategic direction being planned for the franchise over the next few years, feel free to put me in my place.

I'm sure it's all fascinating.

I'm certainly not the one who's saying it makes no financial or business sense if the game doesn't release on 3DS without knowing what the details are. As a matter of fact, I'm not saying much at all. Just expressing my honest emotions upon reading posts.

Well, that's why they're projections, cause we can only make assumptions based on the state of the market now and our assumptions about the project.
Is it set in stone? Of course not, but it's an informed opinion based on what we have available to us.

If you're just gonna laugh it off as fanaticism and stop all discussion, then there's not really much else to say, I guess.

 

[Wiggy]

Well, that's why they're projections, cause we can only make assumptions based on the state of the market now and our assumptions about the project.
Is it set in stone? Of course not, but it's an informed opinion based on what we have available to us.

If you're just gonna laugh it off as fanaticism, then there's not really much else to say, I guess.

I think his point is that we are not informed, regardless of how often we read media create. And a lot of the opinions in this thread are being written as empirical fact, and mocking any dissenters (and square enix).

 

[Garou]

The WiiU is, sadly, past its prime. The PS4 is just starting and it'll explode when FFXV, Star Ocean 5, and KH3 launches (which should be coming before DQXI).

Square might be betting on the long term. DQXI is a 2016 release at the very earliest. By then the NX must be near release and the 3DS on its last legs.

I don't presume to know the inner working of Square but judging from the creator's statements and the timing of the release my logic says PS4 is the way to go with a possible PS3 release too.

But the hell if I know.

You have to consider that even if Wi U just sells half of what it sells now and PS4 starts selling twice of what it sells now it would take close to a year for PS4 to just catch up with Wii U. And even that scenario is not coming soon.
That's the reality of the Japanese console-market.

 

[Oregano]

For all you know, it's a Wii U exclusive. Why's everyone sleeping on that? That's a home console. Maybe Nintendo funded the game, and it makes complete sense for Square Enix. Maybe it'll come to the NX in the future too. Who knows? You ever think about that? Exactly.

Now that's a comment probably worthy of that MJ gif.

 

[Busaiku]

I think his point is that we are not informed, regardless of how often we read media create. And a lot of the opinions in this thread are being written as empirical fact, and mocking any dissenters (and square enix).

I mean there's information we can never get, but basing predicitions on market trends isn't a random shot in the dark, it's as informed as we can get, short of joining SE's financial department. You're basically saying we can't discuss sales cause we'll never have all the data for anything.

 

[Father_Brain]

...do people really think it's unreasonable to doubt that Square Enix can singlehandedly revive the console market in Japan?

 

[Sammy Samusu]

You won't be laughing when DQXI fails to sell as much as DQIX.