chicagocubsfan
Member
Military strategy at its finest.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
70 years ago today: The USA dropped the first nuclear bomb on Hiroshima
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
- Status
You sure have a romanticised view on life.
PeskyToaster
Member
I think that's an understatement. I think I called that poster naive when the thread was first getting going but wow.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
i like his version of WWII, where germany wasnt a fucking monster of a military force and completely incapable of shooting down planes flying over their nation and dropping propaganda into it, trying to convince the people under the rule of the national socialist party that they should stop the war because we dropped some coloring books and poems on their heads.
we could've won the war simply by flexing our cultural virtues all over the front. I suppose mistakes were made
we could've won the war simply by flexing our cultural virtues all over the front. I suppose mistakes were made
Captain Tuttle
Member
Why don't you try to organize something like this for North Korea? I they're more about controlling their own population rather than others but the suffering in that country immense
Leaflet bombing is actually a powerful psychological weapon
Nobody has ever tried dropping empty weapons along with precious resources though, let alone followed it up with a recklessly hopeful protest march. Symbols are powerful. It wasn't impossible to change their ideology. The Nazi's killed millions in death camps - but over several years, and they were convinced the people that they were killing were sub-human.
Framing is everything. The common German soldier would at least respect the courage of foreign soldiers, maybe only on an unconscious level but there would still be a trace of fellow feeling. That could be emphasised and amplified. Drop leaflets that said something like: "We've completely disarmed our military, we've given you all our weapons. We're coming over the border now, to put your leaders on trial for their crimes. You may kill all of us, we are defenseless. We would rather die than wage war, or let your leaders commit more crimes. Would you rather kill millions of unarmed protesters than see a few men have a fair trial?"
Such desperate diplomacy might have broken the spell that had fallen over the German people. The protesters could even march naked, just to emphasise their humanity and vulnerability. I'm not a troll and resent the suggestion. Might be delusional though.
I mean, the US and Britain were allied with Stalin of all people. We traded and cooperated with a regime arguably more monstrous than the one we were fighting. There has to have been a better way
With any influence I would, if any crazy fools would agree with me. I would start by promising Kim Jong-un and all his cronies wealth, power and influence - a casino in Vegas or some other unobjectionable position, if they just gave up control of North Korea. When they refused, I would tell them that me and my protesters were coming over to put them on trial. They would not get the death sentence, just a plain life in some secure facility. Then I would threaten them with absolute annihilation if they dared to harm a single protester. This message would be spread to all the people of North Korea via leaflet bombing - alongside a barrage of medicine, food, anti-war propaganda and so on. My bet is a coward like Kim would take the cushy life in Vegas, he would have to be completely insane to think he could fight against the US or some alliance of first world powers
Nobody has ever tried dropping empty weapons along with precious resources though, let alone followed it up with a recklessly hopeful protest march. Symbols are powerful. It wasn't impossible to change their ideology. The Nazi's killed millions in death camps - but over several years, and they were convinced the people that they were killing were sub-human.
Framing is everything. The common German soldier would at least respect the courage of foreign soldiers, maybe only on an unconscious level but there would still be a trace of fellow feeling. That could be emphasised and amplified. Drop leaflets that said something like: "We've completely disarmed our military, we've given you all our weapons. We're coming over the border now, to put your leaders on trial for their crimes. You may kill all of us, we are defenseless. We would rather die than wage war, or let your leaders commit more crimes. Would you rather kill millions of unarmed protesters than see a few men have a fair trial?"
Such desperate diplomacy might have broken the spell that had fallen over the German people. The protesters could even march naked, just to emphasise their humanity and vulnerability. I'm not a troll and resent the suggestion. Might be delusional though.
I mean, the US and Britain were allied with Stalin of all people. We traded and cooperated with a regime arguably more monstrous than the one we were fighting. There has to have been a better way
With any influence I would, if any crazy fools would agree with me. I would start by promising Kim Jong-un and all his cronies wealth, power and influence - a casino in Vegas or some other unobjectionable position, if they just gave up control of North Korea. When they refused, I would tell them that me and my protesters were coming over to put them on trial. They would not get the death sentence, just a plain life in some secure facility. Then I would threaten them with absolute annihilation if they dared to harm a single protester. This message would be spread to all the people of North Korea via leaflet bombing - alongside a barrage of medicine, food, anti-war propaganda and so on. My bet is a coward like Kim would take the cushy life in Vegas, he would have to be completely insane to think he could fight against the US or some alliance of first world powers
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
either youre extremely naive about, well, everything or youre doing god's work insofar as trolling is concerned.
The people saying you're probably a troll are actually giving you credit, since it's either that or you're hopelessly naive and ignorant. All of your suggestions betray a complete lack of understanding and knowledge of history. I don't mean just the "televised debate" thing.
You suggest a debate with "armor-piercing" questions against one of the great speakers of the 20th century.
You suggest dropping leaflets as though that could somehow allow civilians in Germany--under a totalitarian government that made heavy use of secret police--to not get arrested and murdered for even thinking of rebellion.
You suggest an unarmed march, with the announced intention of taking down the German government, against a German military that killed tens of millions of Russian civilians.
It's nonsense. It's wishful thinking. It's saying "wouldn't it be nice if the world was this way, therefore the world is this way." Your plans would have resulted in, in order: absolutely fuck-all, the pointless deaths of German civilians, the loss of the war for the Allies and possibly Nazi domination of Europe, depending on how many naked weaponless marching soldiers were deployed and subsequently slaughtered.
Your ideas have absolutely no basis in reality and it was probably a colossal waste of my time to even type this up.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
typist, if you're not a troll, you desperately need to join the Peace Corps and volunteer in some kind of war-torn country for a year, or something. Your view of the world is completely lacking in perspective. If you can look at man's accomplishments and say that he has no right to live because violence is sometimes a necessary part of the life that produces them, well, go move to the woods and try to get accepted into a pack of wolves, or something, because being a human may not be for you if you can't handle the uglier side of it.
"Hey Kim, I know your families have killed and imprisoned entire generations of Koreans, but if you give up now, you'll live out a wealthy life, and will never be brought to justice for your crimes."
You're literally no better than the US taking Nazi and Unit 731 scientists in exchanges for pardons. Any moral high ground card you tried to play is now gone because of the sheer amount of irony in your post.
Your post is downright Heartless.
E) March naked and unarmed into Berlin and put Hitler on trial.
F) Give Kim Jong-un a casino in Vegas.
ClosingADoor
Member
Every sentence in this post is stupid, I don't even know where to begin.
Dropping empty weapons for the enemy to use and give them some goodies to enjoy.
A hopeful protest march into thousands of armed soldiers ready to slaughter you.
Changing an ideology, but let's forget in the mean time the millions being killed and suffering in death camps because it takes a few decades.
March and rather die is actually helping the Germans, since that is exactly what the Germans had in mind at least in Eastern Europe and Russia. Might want to check up on what happened in those regions.
Allied with Stalin, because of tactical reasons is not the same as being friends.
Damn, if this is really what you think, it is not even funny, it is just sad.
I suggest you watch this video about the death count in World War 2: https://vimeo.com/128373915 And the people responsible for that are the ones you are going to peacefully march against. Good luck with that.
Radio debate then, forgot TV was rare once, cut me a break. Giving a good speech is much easier than winning a debate. Hitler was loud, sure, apparently that's still as impressive to you as it was to people seventy years ago. But all his content was bullshit, it would only take a simple line of questioning and his position would fall apart
An advantage of dropping millions of leaflets is that many people will have a moment alone to slip one into their pocket, then destroy it later - then the message just spreads by word of mouth
They had to dehumanize those civilians first - that's why I preface my march with evidence of the humanity of the protesters
If it bought freedom for North Korea then it would be worth it.
Because his alternatives are prison or death
Anyway I really need to study for my exams now, won't be posting here again. I'm grateful to everyone who took the time to reply. You might be right. Nobody has ever tried the extreme diplomacy I'm suggesting though, so I'll keep believing it might work until someone proves it wrong experimentally
Well it's either that or clueless. Which is the bigger insult to you? Maybe we'll go with the lesser insult.
I hope to god you never have any influence. Having been born in South Korea I would like to go back there one day before you and your peace march turn Seoul into a crater. Clearly you haven't thought about any of the complexities involved with a reunification, from the economics, to the politics. Maybe you can offer the Chinese government a cushy life in Vegas too.
And who's going to arrest him? YOU or your marching protestors? How are you going to arrest him without forcibly violating his nation's sovereignty?
If his people haven't turned on him in over 60 years despite the increasingly available information about the inhumanity of North Korean rule, what makes you think a peaceful march will do anything but get everyone killed or imprisoned.
This isn't a damn Justice League Episode. "Hawk and Dove" was a cartoon, not reality.
Captain Tuttle
Member
I agree, he's amazing.
lmfao, there might be a reason why
PeskyToaster
Member
The problem here is the bolded. There is no spell to be broken. No magic was involved in getting normal people to shoot other normal people in the face as scary as that is. The issue is that the humanity you are appealing to inside of all of us that you hope will stop them from shooting all of your naked protestors or whatever is also the one that will have them shooting you as you nakedly march to your doom. No spells will be broken because there aren't any spells.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
"The people" weren't in control of Germany, a ruthless Dictator was. You don't understand level of control a totalitarian regime has, especially if it gets its claws into the culture a decade before and creates things like the Hitler Youth... you aren't going undo that with a few well-placed leaflets.
Of course not, that's what the naked march on Berlin is for.
You forgot? Haha.
I'm curious as to what, short of trying it and failing, would convince you that your ideas and understanding of the situation are entirely wrong. Anything?
D
Deleted member 18827
Unconfirmed Member
Let's hope it's not a history exam. Go read up on "peace in our time" and see how appeasement works with murderous ideologies.
wanderingprostheyltite
Member
I dunno man seems to be working pretty well for Trump. Seriously, thank you for your "contributions" to this thread, this has been a marvelously entertaining read, all of it. If you are a troll, a masterful piece of art this be.
I think Leni Riefenstahl would have liked that
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked