D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
That's not what I'm saying at all.
You're really going to take a theory presented by a single study all the way to the bank with this, aren't you?
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Coca Cola :ZERO: how healthy is it ?
- Thread starter Thorgal
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That's not what I'm saying at all.
You're really going to take a theory presented by a single study all the way to the bank with this, aren't you?
djplaeskool
Member
It's not "healthy"
It's just not quite as bad as regular coke.
It's just not quite as bad as regular coke.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
How are those related to the study talking about gut flora?
It's significantly less bad for you. SIGNIFICANTLY.
I think you asked the wrong question.
You should ask how unhealthy it is, because I doubt it does anything positive to your health.
Greatest of all time though.
This shit needs to exist in Australia now. Why can I only get regular and diet Vanilla Coke but not Zero?
LeroyPantwether
Member
this is sort of off/on topic. But what about flavored carbonated mineral water ( Perrier, etc). Are those ok?
Ivan Amiibo
Banned
Hitler drank Coke Zero. You're not Hitler, are you?
(one a day would have no consequences if you're otherwise hydrated and healthy)
(one a day would have no consequences if you're otherwise hydrated and healthy)
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
I prefer Pepsi Max. Unlike Coke Zero, it doesn't make my teeth and mouth feel all gross.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
So much scientific illiteracy in this thread, wow.
Can we get some actual studies and evidence instead of food babe idiocy, please?
Can we get some actual studies and evidence instead of food babe idiocy, please?
The gut flora study postulates that you will gain body fat because of the change to the gut flora.
The first two studies he linked postulated that you can use diet sodas to lose weight, if you replace regular soda intake with diet versions.
One claims it makes you fat, the other two claim it can be used to lose weight.
As long as they are low calorie, you should be totally fine.
LittleWask
Neo Member
Straight up, OP; lots of misinformation in here. I can only offer an opinion on why this issue is so beleaguered with inaccuracies. When something "tastes good", we logically infer that it must be unhealthy for us. After all, we know that sweetness means sugar, and sugar is unhealthy in large quantities. Therefore, logically, things that are sweet are inherently unhealthy. This is why so many people think that diet soda is unhealthy, yet have no discernable reason for their belief. The most common response is, "Well, it's soda, of course it's unhealthy."
Fact is, Coke Zero is basically water. Diet soft drinks are all essentially water. If my memory serves, there is some concern that the amino acids present could damage the teeth over time if overexposed, by eating away at the enamel, but I do not believe that has been firmly established yet. A straw works well, or just tilt your head back and pour it in. Otherwise, there is no negative effects to drinking diet soda. Drink as much as you like; drink ten a day if you want. Not only is it perfectly fine, you're probably staying more well-hydrated than those people who are judging you and drinking 2-3 cups of water a day.
Just remember, there will always be a massive amount of misinformation surrounding this issue. You'll never get the peace of mind of a unanimous agreement, but you make take solace in the fact that the science is on your side.
Excelsior!
Fact is, Coke Zero is basically water. Diet soft drinks are all essentially water. If my memory serves, there is some concern that the amino acids present could damage the teeth over time if overexposed, by eating away at the enamel, but I do not believe that has been firmly established yet. A straw works well, or just tilt your head back and pour it in. Otherwise, there is no negative effects to drinking diet soda. Drink as much as you like; drink ten a day if you want. Not only is it perfectly fine, you're probably staying more well-hydrated than those people who are judging you and drinking 2-3 cups of water a day.
Just remember, there will always be a massive amount of misinformation surrounding this issue. You'll never get the peace of mind of a unanimous agreement, but you make take solace in the fact that the science is on your side.
Excelsior!
This is a pepsi max household!!!!
hammysaurusrex
Member
"Debunked" is being used a bit inappropriately in the thread - there's nothing wrong with the gut flora and blood sugar studies at the level the research is being done. It's just that the strong desire to extrapolate them into assumptions about health consequences is necessarily going to probably be more wrong than right - preliminary research simply gets it wrong more often than it nails something down early. Studies that have examined the relationship between diet soda and health outcomes have simply not shown the hypothesized risks to be true.
Then a diet coke a day probably won't hurt you. Maybe your teeth will suffer though.
Not everyone is a connoisseur, bud.
hydrophilic attack
Member
The first two meta-studies do seem to indicate that switching to diet soda from sugar-containing sodas is good for you. The first one, however, did note a link between higher BMI and consumption of diet sodas. None of them addressed the issues of blood sugar levels or effects on gut flora. They in no way debunked the article I posted about. The last two links also don't address the point of the article I talked about at all. Also, the newest research they cited was from the seventies. Lol?
Lest you are deliberately trying to spread misinformation, please edit the initial post where you quoted me to say that you were wrong (or post an article actually addressing the point in question; that would be interesting to read)
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
That's faulty logic...
One is talking about a very specific mechanic while the others are just looking at results.
I mean, I don't buy wholly into the theory being talked about, obviously, but to say it's been debunked because there are studies with results that would run counter to the results of such a mechanic, and ignoring all of the other factors at play, is not the way to go either.
I'm surprised we haven't seen any talk about "toxins" in here yet.
hockeypuck
Member
1. That's not a refuting study. It's a letter to the editors of a science journal, i.e., a non-peer-reviewed critique of methods. When I hear the word "debunked," I usually expect a refuting study.
2. Actual evidence about aspartame notwithstanding, when arguing a point it's probably a good idea to use sources who aren't paid shills.
From the disclaimer in the article itself.
SocksAndShoes
Banned
It's probably the easiest healthy thing I've ever done.
hammysaurusrex
Member
Well, gollygeewillickers, I wonder why that could be!
LittleWask
Neo Member
1. That's not a refuting study. It's a letter to the editors of a science journal, i.e., a non-peer-reviewed critique of methods. When I hear the word "debunked," I usually expect a refuting study.
2. Actual evidence about aspartame notwithstanding, when arguing a point it's probably a good idea to use sources who aren't paid shills.
From the disclaimer in the article itself.
A company that produces a product would pay for studies on a product that they produce? Truly shocking discovery. I forgot that your family has that large grant you're offering for people interested in studying the effects of Aspartame. Plus, honestly, why do these greedy scientists even need money anyway? Everyone knows that there's plenty of money still growing off that money tree they have.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Please enlighten me. e: nm, I see your point. You're saying fat people would have a higher tendency to drink diet sodas
Are you saying that Nature is not peer-reviewed?
Austriacus
Member
If changing the gut flora had negative effects in relation to weight then the studies i presented wouldnt be a thing.
I also want to point out that the study itself only uses 7 human volunteers and the conclusion is drawn from 4 of them showing glucose intolerance.
I personally think its disingenous at best.
You know, not going to the gym could have lead to weight loss. You kinda ruined your experiment by also making that change.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I want to stress that I'm not buying into the theory based off that one study, but I think you're jumping to conclusions as well. It could very well be true, but at the same time there might be some other compensatory mechanism at play that prevents affected people from gaining excess fat when looked at in broader terms.
Calories in, calories out would be my guess.
Kuro Madoushi
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, as a prediabetic (still diabetic...) that's what I've read on it.
Though I've seen hospitals give diabetics diet sodas; still, everything in moderation.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Just so everyone knows what the terms mean, glucose intolerance means that you have high blood sugar levels, so that's a relevant metric for the study.
Also, they took gut flora samples from 400 people and saw general differences between people consuming artificial sweeteners and people who don't.
You failed to show that the study has been completely debunked, so please edit your completely incorrect post saying that it has.
I realized he is saying that fat people would be more likely to consume diet sodas in the first place, which is a valid point.
Austriacus
Member
Well of course theres more to this. But whenever this topic comes out that study always gets thrown around, partially because in 2014 the media had it hammered everyones throat.
But its only one study in a sea of studies that say that artificial sweeteners have little to do with weight gain so im pretty comfortable in my position.
Of course, in general medicine is pretty tricky and its constantly in flux but as of right now the pendulum is swinging against the general sentiment of that particular study.
Where does it say they took samples of 400 people? it was a study done on Mice
The article isnt debunked in the traditional sense that there was a counter article made against it but a bunch of other studies have different results in relation to the effects on artificial sweeteners so my post will remain the same.
SweetDonuts
Member
Idk how unhealthy it is but I choose it over coke/diet coke all the time.
Makes me lol when people say it's really bad for you then continue to drink their normal coke.
Makes me lol when people say it's really bad for you then continue to drink their normal coke.
hydrophilic attack
Member
It wouldn't shock me if eating a lot of aspartame changes your GI colony. Your bacteria are going to feed on whatever they can consume in your gut. If aspartame promotes a different gut population, nothing unbelievable there.
It's different to take that and claim weight or health implications, though. A lot of research needs to be done to conclude that.
Austriacus
Member
I cant find anywhere but that article discussing the 400 people, not even in the comments made in response to the article so that seems incredibly suspect.
I guess this is really bad since its a blogpost but i found this post refuting the study
http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/artificial-sweeteners-obesity-poor-evidence/
hydrophilic attack
Member
It seems to have been misreported.
I did get access to the article though, and there was this:
hammysaurusrex
Member
My guess is that gut bacteria will be for 2010-2020 what neuroimaging was for 2000-2010
"Oh my, gosh, guys, they did this thing and something in the brain changed! It's so important!"
"Why is that change important?"
"Because it changed!"
"..."
Obviously, when the dust settles we'll have learned a lot, but people never seem to learn from the history of medical panacea hype trains.
hydrophilic attack
Member
The articles you posted say nothing about whether they would lead to diabetes or not. That was also part of my original post that you quoted (it wasn't just weight gain) and you haven't shown anything disputing that at all.
neurosisxeno
Member
This always pops up on Reddit discussions about health and weight loss, and I love it. The general consensus there is that "Energy Balance" is the golden rule, but Zero Calorie drinks are magically an exception that they refuse to talk about. I drink Pepsi Max (probably 1-2 cans a day, 4 at most) and I refuse to believe it's anything short of straight poison, considering 2/3 of the ingredients are synthetic alternatives to naturally occurring things that are really bad for you. But according to Energy Balance it's no different than drinking water.
MisterAnderson
Member
It's incredibly unhealthy, like every other soda.
Austriacus
Member
Uhm im not following? I never disputed the fact that higher blood sugar can lead to diabetes, i just disputed the fact that diet sodas could lead to higher blood sugar levels.
Chezzymann
Member
Are there any good drinks that aren't sugary or filled with artificial sugar? Juices, sodas, flavored water, its all sugary
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
It's not basically water. The body doesn't react the same to it as if it were water. It's going to take a lot of research to figure out exactly what's going on. The telling stat is that diet soda consumption isn't associated with weight loss.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Right, and my point is that none of the stuff you posted in favour of your point addressed blood sugar. They only addreessed weight loss. (Well, one of your links talked about blood sugar, citing 40 year old research.)
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