Corronchilejano
Member
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/22/americas/colombia-farc-ceasefire/index.html
FYI, this conflict has been going on for more than fifty years.
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Colombia, FARC rebels to sign ceasefire agreement
- Thread starter Corronchilejano
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http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/22/americas/colombia-farc-ceasefire/index.html
FYI, this conflict has been going on for more than fifty years.
RastaMentality
Banned
Great news.
Don't get to excited, our pussy president was afraid of losing his (extremely low, almost nonexistent) popularity and decided to cast a vote on this (whole having faculties to just make it an executive order).
Yes, this could turn into a BREXIT if people vote no, because of course, our dear criminal ex president Alvaro Uribe is campaigning against it (can't accept somebody else stole his thunder and his war policies can be left behind). He is the far right leader and has lots, lots of followers who could ruin it for everyone.
Let's hope people are not THAT DUMB to nullify the agreements with popular vote in the ballot.
It's not a perfect treaty, but it works, and puts an end to an old, old war. It's a once in a lifetime chance.
Yes, this could turn into a BREXIT if people vote no, because of course, our dear criminal ex president Alvaro Uribe is campaigning against it (can't accept somebody else stole his thunder and his war policies can be left behind). He is the far right leader and has lots, lots of followers who could ruin it for everyone.
Let's hope people are not THAT DUMB to nullify the agreements with popular vote in the ballot.
It's not a perfect treaty, but it works, and puts an end to an old, old war. It's a once in a lifetime chance.
KeyBladerXIII
Member
I doubt everyone involved in both parties agree to this. Fighting will probably break out again.
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Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, Brexit also comes to my mind.
However, out of a recent survey, it's expected that 35% of the population will vote, and of those, more than half (IIRC, like 60%) will vote to accept the agreement. Here's hoping this holds.
New era for Colombia, definitely. I'm excited for my country.
There are points in the agreement that specify improvement of conditions for agriculture workers, and work to reduce corruption networks due to drug trafficking.
The military forces have definitely had more restraint, however out of thousands of rebels in the FARC, it would seem only a minority do not want the treaty to go through. The government has pretty much said that whatever rebel does not meet the deal's requirements will probably face death in military confrontations.
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Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Do read the treaty yourself rather than listening to either side. Both sides in the political spectrum are pretty much running "you're either with us or against us" campaigns.
Even certain big profile news networks seem to run disinformation campaigns.
Colombian army is one of the best in the world, so a 1000 people rebel group is not a problem for 80.000+ highly trained soldiers. 50.000 rebels on the other hand certainly are.
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Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
The speeches from representatives of the government and the FARC are on live TV right now.
I like how there's an emphasis on the suffering that women and other marginalized groups have gone through. Also, the FARC representative thanking and asking the USA to help keep the peace, 5 years ago I would've laughed at the notion of that hahaha.
I think the FARC has more or less 7000 foot soldiers. (well basing on the reunion the FARC is supposed to have with its members)
Only like one platoon of a couple dozens soldiers or so have said they do not want the treaty. So, as you said, no problem for the army.
I like how there's an emphasis on the suffering that women and other marginalized groups have gone through. Also, the FARC representative thanking and asking the USA to help keep the peace, 5 years ago I would've laughed at the notion of that hahaha.
I think the FARC has more or less 7000 foot soldiers. (well basing on the reunion the FARC is supposed to have with its members)
Only like one platoon of a couple dozens soldiers or so have said they do not want the treaty. So, as you said, no problem for the army.
For real? Wow those are some efficient rebels
I could have sworn they were in the tens of thousands. It's the damn terrain, we got fucked with the whole jungle + mountain chain thing, makes things very difficult. Let's hope they are not very hard to deal with.
NeOak
Member
The army is great. The generals had to be spanked by Uribe when the BS about "battalion's limit lines" existed and allowed guerrillas to get away when they were being chased.
And other things. Jungle warfare is a bitch. Just ask the US Army.
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Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
The army definitely isn't without its problems. Specially with the false positive controversy when Uribe offered monetary reward per dead rebel. EDIT: And yeah, the US Army values the skills of the Colombian army enough to send people here to get training.
Reading through Wikipedia, looks like their peak numbers were 18K people a couple of years ago.
For real? Wow those are some efficient rebels
Reading through Wikipedia, looks like their peak numbers were 18K people a couple of years ago.
True. Uribe did great things for the army, he just pretty much fucked in every other way (Including the moral fabric of the army, with the whole rewards for kill, which turned into killing innocents and paint them as terrorists for money), and he keeps doing it, which makes me fume.
He could have just surrounded himself with good people during his tenure and retire as an iconic president, but instead he chose the worst criminal scum as advisors and due to his great pride he got involved into some cover up stuff that is just criminal, and of course, he's becoming really annoying as a far right leader, even regressing on his own lgbt and health policies.
Let's hope for the love of god he and his army of followers don't screw this up.
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Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
I don't even think Uribe's problem is about surrounding himself with bad people, considering his own brother is under investigation for paramilitary links. I really think he's a bad person.
Like holy shit, the guy asked the government not to involve Amnesty International (or another human's rights group) in the investigation of a corrupt politician, after he and his party cried political persecution, because he had issues with the head of said human's rights group. His government, IIRC, is one which broke a lot of human's rights.
One of the people involved with his protection detail was involved with the assassination of Jaime Garzon, one of the most important journalists in the country. The DAS (something like the equivalent of the FBI, I guess) had to be shut down because during his administration, journalists and opposition politicians were spied upon. Several of his ministry heads are under investigations for corruption.
His party (which he's pretty much the leader and the raison d'etre) hired a hacker to spy the current peace treaty in order to run a propaganda campaign to sabotage it, in election year. Something that can only remind me of Nixon's sabotage to the Vietnam war peace talks.
Like holy shit, the guy asked the government not to involve Amnesty International (or another human's rights group) in the investigation of a corrupt politician, after he and his party cried political persecution, because he had issues with the head of said human's rights group. His government, IIRC, is one which broke a lot of human's rights.
One of the people involved with his protection detail was involved with the assassination of Jaime Garzon, one of the most important journalists in the country. The DAS (something like the equivalent of the FBI, I guess) had to be shut down because during his administration, journalists and opposition politicians were spied upon. Several of his ministry heads are under investigations for corruption.
His party (which he's pretty much the leader and the raison d'etre) hired a hacker to spy the current peace treaty in order to run a propaganda campaign to sabotage it, in election year. Something that can only remind me of Nixon's sabotage to the Vietnam war peace talks.
"bu-bu-but he tells it like it is!" Reminds you of somebody?
He's the unholy amalgam of Thatcher, Putin and Trump.
Lord Morairty007
Member
This is huge news! Finally, this 5 decades of violence can be put to rest.
Doesn't the treaty promise some of them positions or influence in the government? Couldn't that be trading violence for more corruption in the government?
As much as peace is coveted, some would argue it can't come at the cost of corruption or justice.
But then again, peace may never come if you want perfect justice hinging on vengeance.
As much as peace is coveted, some would argue it can't come at the cost of corruption or justice.
But then again, peace may never come if you want perfect justice hinging on vengeance.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Worst of all is that he's smart and so it's easier to fall for him. Heck, I was a supporter just a couple of years ago. It was only when I started to analyse, to say "ok, which part is progressive, who is right-leaning, why was that administration successful" I started to realize his administration success was based on luck, since the price of oil was pretty good through those years for our exportations.
God, not to mention his push against LGBT rights. Fuck that party.
Yeah, people don't really look at it from the corruption view, but rather from the "we're gonna have a human's rights abuser in our congress/senate?", without really taking in account we already do heh. Also, according to the treaty, there certain crimes under the Rome Treaty that cannot have amnesty (such as murder, kidnapping, torture, etc), so if all goes through, there'll be justice, resolution and reparation to the victims.
Colombia's justice system is not based on vengeance but rather re-education and reintegration, so there's that as well (even though it doesn't work in practice, but that's for another day).
He's a genius. No doubt about that. Hitler was one too though.
I'm just reading the agreements right now, they sound good enough for now, for what I understand, as it's the whole idea to turn the FARC from rebel guerilla into a legitimate into a political movement (as their justification was that they were simply not heard) they will have 4 direct positions in congress for two terms, the first one with no vote (but voice) and the second one with whole faculties BUT will have to be earned by popular vote. That sounds really tame as there are no more political concessions. The negotiators were damn wizards, I suppose the guerrilla heads were just promised asylum in Cuba and such they were far more lenient in their demands.
Gotta keep reading though. If you're interested here is the whole text
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Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Thank you! I gotta read through this.
Yeah, I keep seeing in RCN and Caracol (two of the big TV news networks) and politicians there (most of Uribe's party, Centro Democratico) keep saying how we're giving the country to the FARC. Lmao, what you just said, Ahas, proves otherwise.
No argument against that. We needed him. But we surely don't now, and he's still there ruining the party for everyone. Man, just fucking retire.
He's probably the best president ever for colombia, at least the only one who had the balls to take it against those terrorists and got them so weakened that they ended up asking for a peace treaty
You mean the best president for the army, because for the rest of the population he
- Screwed the whole health system cutting the public funds for it and created the dreaded third party healthcare model.
- Cut funding for higher education.
- Destroyed the workers rights, erasing all trace of protection and paid benefits like night hours.
- Signed a Free Trade Agreement with a country we were never in a million years, ready to compete with, destroying thousands of jobs and making the country a prime target for lowballed foreign acquisitions.
- Raised retirement age by 8 years.
- Raised the sales tax.
- Raised the bank services tax.
- Lowered corporate tax.
- Sold off most statal companies.
- Prosecuted opposition and spied on them like good old Nixon.
- Favored his rich friends with millions in state subsidies while taking away properties form legit, small owners (The guy involved in this just got caught in the US today)
- Based the long term financial projections of the country on oil prices, while never being an oil producer.
- Gave away many mining concessions to foreign companies which have caused terrible environmental disasters.
- Used his position to create free trade zones while his children forcefully bought companies in said zones.
- Indirectly caused the murder of hundreds of innocents by promoting the cash payments for unverified rebel killings.
And many, many many terrible things more.
You might think those neoliberal politics were for the greater economic good, wouldn't you? wrong, even after him, poverty levels were pretty much the same and workers just got it worse than ever before, with the middle class pretty much going extinct.
The thing with him is very simple, the everyman is far worse after him, but doesn't notice it, while he uses the patriotic and emotional side to rise their spirits. That's pretty much Hitler's playbook.
There's a reason why almost all his "advisors" are either in jail, prosecuted or in hiding.
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Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
There's so much shit in that list, I forgot almost half of those! No wonder why people like Trump talk crap all the time, the Average Joe will just forget most.
Hope more people read up on this and realize how big of a precedent this is. Coming together after 50+ years of bitter conflict and discussing the issues on both sides in great detail and coming up with a decent compromise while some fighting is still going on takes some serious doing.
Once the referendum is done, this will hopefully be an example to follow elsewhere.
Once the referendum is done, this will hopefully be an example to follow elsewhere.
NeOak
Member
"Cancun, here we come!"
IfritTower
Neo Member
As imperfect as any peace treaty of this kind is going to be, pretty much all of the family back in Colombia I've talked to are very glad the conflict will be coming to an end.
The FARC are lots of tiny groups (called "fronts"). Some fronts are cartel like while others are still revolutionary. The cartel fronts are not pleased with the agreement so they said they were not going to sign it, however with the heads in, the military has all the intelligence they need. Moreover, the drug stuff is not a FARC monopoly, there are other groups, armed and not, that will be still going at it. There has been some push from the government to legalize Marijuana and coke (the plant) so who knows, maybe there won't be a need for cartels soon.
Corronchilejano
Member
There are no "both" parties.
There's at least five different groups all fighting to stay in power. The most dangerous one, those who follow Alvaro Uribe, could sabotage the peace talks by getting people to vote "No" on the upcoming referendum.
A country voting against its own peace.
Lol, during his time he killed seven times as many citizens as the guerrilla did during its whole existence.
Corronchilejano
Member
We can't make it worse than we did with the "peace talks" with the paramilitary almost a decade ago. This is the most prepared program in the history of peace talks around the world.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Lots of people voting No in my Facebook feed
Here's hoping Yes people do vote.
Here's hoping Yes people do vote.
I truly hope it turns out fine for you my hermanos but I'm sadly with Uribe on this. Santos is a farce. Hope this doesn't come biting in the ass for you guys, I wouldn't worry about the vote as I'm certain that the YES is going to win.
Maybe I'm just traumatized and paranoid as a Venezuelan that has lived through his country being utterly destroyed by (mostly) former guerrilleros but there's a lot of red flags there.
Maybe I'm just traumatized and paranoid as a Venezuelan that has lived through his country being utterly destroyed by (mostly) former guerrilleros but there's a lot of red flags there.
Bumping the thread.
Today is the official sign of the Peace Agreements between FARC and the Colombian Goverment in Cartagena de Indias.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/201...olombia-peace-ceremony.html?ref=americas&_r=0
Today is the official sign of the Peace Agreements between FARC and the Colombian Goverment in Cartagena de Indias.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/201...olombia-peace-ceremony.html?ref=americas&_r=0
Corronchilejano
Member
I came here to bump the thread, but I see it's been done. Pray for a win on Sunday.
Venezuela destroyed its institutions before plunging into misery. Colombia has none of that. Ironically, the president closes to achieving this has been Uribe.
Also, Chavez was from the military, and so were most of the people he worked with.
Venezuela destroyed its institutions before plunging into misery. Colombia has none of that. Ironically, the president closes to achieving this has been Uribe.
Also, Chavez was from the military, and so were most of the people he worked with.
AcademicSaucer
Member
Doesn't this give state funding to FARC so they can form a political party and campaign for the government. That's dangerous too.
That's good though, it's better for them to be political than military, either way, colombian people won't vote them into high government, we've never had a leftist president, never, ever, in 200 years, and that won't start now, much less a far left one, and much much less one involved with FARC, we are not Venezuela, we're not ruined or hungry for a status quo change, in fact, that's a colombian sin, we just don't care.
Chavez was a military that worked alongside Guerrilleros to hold a coup... And the institutions were destroyed by those same military and guerrileros that got voted in after they were pardoned.
I do agree that Colombia has none of that and I hope it stays that way.
Also, why the hell is this being held before the vote?
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