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[Corronchilejano]

You are the one arguing that, the burden of proof is on you. People said the ones who voted "no" have not suffered anything, they are wrong, whether the majority of the victims voted yes or no.

You saw the post with the voting results of the towns where Farc committed massacres right? That was mine.

And give the murderers that rebel against the state and killed innocent people and even a governor a state subsidize paid by the tax payers while the people that live their entire life without hurting anyone have to pay for it? Damn that is really progressive.

None of what you said is true. The EU was paying for the subsidies given to the guerrillas, and no "state" (department) was given to them either.

 

[Fred-87]

Actually it works fine and dandy. The problem is that it isn't the result some people wanted.

your naive.
You really think its the peoples choise?
People get persuaded by political messages anyway. So its not their choise. Also their opinion is coloured by revenge. Basic human urges.
The idea of referendums sounds nice but in practise they are not good.

 

[poppabk]

This is why the American system of a republic is the best system yet.

Yeah, going to war with Iraq to get revenge for a terrorist attack they played no part in is better than people unwilling to forgive a group who murdered hundreds of thousands of people and who forced children to fight for them.

 

[Led_Zeppelin]

You saw the post with the voting results of the towns where Farc committed massacres right? That was mine.


None of what you said is true. The EU was paying for the subsidies given to the guerrillas, and no "state" (department) was given to them either.

state is meant to mean the government in general and not a particular department. And for what I read the EU didn't offer to pay the cost of peace in fact Colombia took a loan for over u$s 100M and the cost it seems to be around 1% of the GDP yearly for 10 years. It doesn't seem much but it still means to give money and freedom to people that basically did terrorism. Is a hard choice, I don't blame anyone that choose to vote No and people shouldn't be so quick to judge, I read some commentaries of the people that voted No and seem they have clear issues with the deal that was made.

 

[mantidor]

You saw the post with the voting results of the towns where Farc committed massacres right? That was mine.

And I can link Casanare's results, where FARC has extorted and kidnapped people for years.

I really don't care who "won", no one did, I just have inmense respect for the victims who voted yes, and for the ones who voted no, and what bothers me is people denying the status of victims for the ones who voted no, no matter how little their numbers can be.

 

[yanipheonu]

 

[Corronchilejano]

state is meant to mean the government in general and not a particular department. And for what I read the EU didn't offer to pay the cost of peace in fact Colombia took a loan for over u$s 100M and the cost it seems to be around 1% of the GDP yearly for 10 years. It doesn't seem much but it still means to give money and freedom to people that basically did terrorism. Is a hard choice, I don't blame anyone that choose to vote No and people shouldn't be so quick to judge, I read some commentaries of the people that voted No and seem they have clear issues with the deal that was made.

Nope, the EU is loaning some money and straight up giving us other monies so as long as we finished our peace talks and sealed a deal. There're many monies to be had by different organizacionts. Money for everyone.

And I have no problem with people voting No for their own reasons. I do have a problem with people who voted no because "we should kill those terrorists". As if "we" colombians hadn't also commited other acts amongst ourselves, like the massacre of the UP.

And I can link Casanare's results, where FARC has extorted and kidnapped people for years.

We can add it up. Really, people have already crossed maps before. I'm not saying there aren't places where No wins among victim departments, but it is very clear that in the places where most victims are, "Yes" won.

I really don't care who "won", no one did, I just have inmense respect for the victims who voted yes, and for the ones who voted no, and what bothers me is people denying the status of victims for the ones who voted no, no matter how little their numbers can be.

I get what you're saying. In the end however, the thing is, "No" won, and there is no plan on what to do now. The goverment is scrambling to find a quick solution, while those who pushed "No" now comfily even decide not to join the talks with the rest of the parties.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

At this point we can't tell whether or not most victims supported Yes, specially since we don't have an agency or organization that is dedicated towards that. And it's pretty much impossible to 100% quantify it, since we have 6 million victims, if you count forced displacement. They could have run surveys on the group though. They didn't. Looks like they wanted to roll the dice on it.

What I can tell, is that the FARC did several forgiveness acts, in which dozens of victims assisted and forgave them.

I'm not going to say which victims are right or wrong, but I do hope that victims can receive social and psychological treatment and can reach forgiveness, or we'll remain stuck in a cycle of retaliation.

Also, Centro Democratico (No leaders) did not attend to the meeting with the President and negotiation team. Nice.

They also name the three delegates that they will name for the process. One of them (Oscar Ivan Zuluaga) has been formally accused of sabotaging the process to win the presidential election of 2014.

EDIT: Oh, if we're on the money side, the Obama administration is giving us 400 million USD as well. They're not lending it.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Since we're on the "what did the most affected places vote" (zones where transition zones were going to be, although they were affected as well) discussion, I'll link to this:

Así votaron los municipios donde las Farc dejarían las armas

In 23 out of 27 cities chosen to be transition zones from being guerrilla to the civilian life, the peace deal had been approved by the ample majority. Experts explain that this demonstrates the will of the colombian people to reintegrate the former combatants.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Uribe (leader of Centro Democratico, opposition to the deal) has proposed amnesty for 5700 FARC rebels (98% of the FARC forces), meaning they weren't as opposed as they looked like. They do want guarantees for police and military forces. Which is fine, until you realize that many killed civilians, dressed them up as rebels and claimed a 3 million pesos bounty.

They are starting to give up ground and realize the current deal is the best we've got, he just wanted political capital for the coming elections. People might start to see the whole Yes/No problem as it is, where political party used it as a way to become relevant again.

 

[Corronchilejano]

What Uribe is proposing is literally what a lot of us said before would happen: Pardon without truth nor reparations. The special court worked in the agreements made sure that if you wanted a reduced sentence for your crimes (any sort of crime) you needed to come clean and then work out repairs with the victims.

What Uribe is proposing is that cops and militaries get a maximum sentence of five years if they commited crimes during operations. They do not need to come clean at all. In fact, those years come in regardless of wheter you ever confess your crimes, so unless someone is investigating your dirty laundry, you're basically scott free. All this from people who murdered civilians to get bonuses (seriously) and helped murder farmers to steal their land.

I cannot even discuss these things in my own facebook anymore. It's disheartening to see people utterly blind to what everything that's been worked on by the CD actually means.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Yeah, mothers whose sons and daughters were victims of false positives were crying and protesting today because of Uribe's remarks.

Also, this whole thing is going to fucking shit. President Santos has announced the bilateral ceasefire will end on October 31.

No idea what happens afterwards, but I have a feeling it's not going to be pretty. EDIT: Apparently because that's when the UN verification mission ends. The government was not prepared for the victory of No.

 

[Corronchilejano]

Peace had a good few months.

 

[WAR recon zero]

Santos trying to show a few balls

 

[Opto]

wait, NPR said 2/3rd the population didn't vote ? what???

 

[mantidor]

wait, NPR said 2/3rd the population didn't vote ? what???

Its the biggest number of non voters in decades.

Most are saying that people didn't care, but I think that for the most part people simply didn't believe in the process as a whole. The visible heads of both parts of the negotiation, Santos and Timochenko, have abysmal approval ratings for instance, specially Timochenko or anyone associated with Farc.

And really it's basically impossible to be a colombian and not care, everyone has been touched by violence one way or another.

 

[Makki]

The outlining cities are less densely populated so the YES's are hardly an indicator of what the country wanted, hell, most of the people wanted nothing to do with the process due to the insane amount of compromises. It seems to be ignored that there is significant influence from FARC outside of the main cities and that FARC themselves know it is in their best interest to get the peace treaty through on the current terms due to the more than generous offers for everyone after having endured real pain and prosecution under Uribe.

My mother had an incredibly hard time accepting the ultimate price from this peace process which was sending the message that terrorism pays off for the perpetrators, regardless of the atrocities committed. The feeling mostly came from the irrational prize FARC gets which is a paid career in politics for the higher ups and more than minimum salary for their lower members meaning all the law abiding people make less money than those who killed, kidnapped, bombed and engaged in narcotraffic just to turn around and suggest it was all a political statement and get rewarded for it in droves???
The treaty needs to be a compromise from both ends, not a collective extortion of the country for the benefit of them alone and the collateral disarmament.

The feelings of those affected are all different since we as people are all different, and to condemn a political system or the people who voted No is really shortsighted. The majority by either not voting or rejecting the treaty spoke louder than those who were willing to see it all end at all costs.

 

[WAR recon zero]

FARC is the only party that was ready for the No

Dollar is up, peso is down, the funding of the help from the international banks are gone, the risk to loan is down, bdi ranks us down.

Gee fucking thanks idiots

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Santos trying to show a few balls

It's smart, really. It's essentially saying "You either let us pass this thing as much as we had it initially, or you're the one going down on history as the warmonger for small demands". It also takes advantage of the fact that Centro Democratico was not as prepared as the population thought for a No outcome in the referendum.

They have to press on to that narrative if they want it to work. It could tank the party nationally (except perhaps Antioquia, for obvious reasons) if they play it smart, and get the initial deal done.

Areas affected by the war are already set on that narrative saying "we shouldn't have to beg for peace" (that's from the zone that voted 90% for Yes). We'll see what the following weeks await us. Hope it has a good ending for country.

 

[crazygambit]

There's a lot more depth to this than just a yes or no to end war with FARC and it's hard to understand if you are on the outside. It's hard for a lot of people to accept after the terrorism attacks, abductions, killings and bullshit spewed by this group to simply accept they will get more money than a legitimate citizen working minimum wage per capita, that they will get a voice as a political party, that no one will face criminal charges... and many more things. It's basically a treaty with all pros towards FARC showing terrorism pays.

Also, a lot of the reasons why you say a lot of yes on the outskirts of the country comes down to fraud. You go to the coast where they barely have potable water and most of the time no electricity and offer them all sorts of props and shit to get them to vote for your cause and you will get what you want from them without having to force their hand at the polls. There's much less regular law enforcement presence outside of main cities like Cali, Bogota, Medellin and others smaller ones.

I admittedly don't have the best grasp on this issue, but I heard the some of the reasons people voted no and they seemed pretty damned reasonable. Like not only are these murderers and terrorist not gonna face prosecution, but some will also become senators? Seems like a pretty bitter pill to swallow for their victims. The government seems to have the upper hand in these negotiations, they could surely get a better deal and still secure peace right?

 

[Deleted member 80556]

I admittedly don't have the best grasp on this issue, but I heard the some of the reasons people voted no and they seemed pretty damned reasonable. Like not only are these murderers and terrorist not gonna face prosecution, but some will also become senators? Seems like a pretty bitter pill to swallow for their victims. The government seems to have the upper hand in these negotiations, they could surely get a better deal and still secure peace right?

Hardly. The point is for them to leave their arms and change the country with politics, not violence. The leaders started off as a revolutionary group and probably will not tolerate time in prisons (specially in ones that have high rates of reincidence, and where there's so much people that Tuberculosis is easily spread). One might think that the government has the upperhand, but in reality, both are pretty much equals in terms on negotiating, and that's because if they government had any chance of wiping out the FARC in the previous 50 years, they would've done it, both sides are essentially at a stalemate. Both sides know they can't give too much because the population will simply not tolerate it, or the other the side (which is why a referendum was also a good idea initially, it pressured the FARC to be realistic in their demands).

 

[Corronchilejano]

I admittedly don't have the best grasp on this issue, but I heard the some of the reasons people voted no and they seemed pretty damned reasonable. Like not only are these murderers and terrorist not gonna face prosecution, but some will also become senators? Seems like a pretty bitter pill to swallow for their victims. The government seems to have the upper hand in these negotiations, they could surely get a better deal and still secure peace right?

Lies.

1.Most of the victims (even if some other posters would like you to think otherwise, against all proof) wanted the agreement to go forward.
2.A special body would be created specifically to prosecute all crimes made during wartime.
3.Crimes in the Rome statute and against humanity would not be pardoned, although not all would be paid in jail time.
4.The goverment has nothing. The CD has fractioned the country between all other parties and themselves, and Uribe has made it pretty clear that what he's looking for will leave a lot of minorities in the dust, and help a lot of his friends guilty of crimes against humanity (like murdering people for money or for their land). If FARC decides to go back to the jungle, things will probably take a turn for the worse, because the central command will have weakened, and Bacrim will probably spawn from the main group.
5.I almost forgot. FARC would have received 4% of the seats in the house. How is that "giving up to the castrochavismo"? Who knows. This would've made them rethink their ideas to get popular support. But now, we got nothing.

Literally every single day that passes things become worse. What I cannot believe is some people voted no because they didn't want their children to be affected by "teh gays". I'm not even kidding on that one.

What a depressing sight. Oh my country, truly La Patria Boba.

EDIT: People still saying that the guerrillas wouldn't pay for their crimes is the result of the greatest smear campaign ever made. I weep.

There are crimes that cannot receive neither amnesty nor clemency, in accordance to numerals 41 and 42 in this document. Crimes against humanity nor other crimes in the statute of Rome can receive amnesty.

 

[mantidor]

FARC is the only party that was ready for the No

Dollar is up, peso is down, the funding of the help from the international banks are gone, the risk to loan is down, bdi ranks us down.

Gee fucking thanks idiots

Except the part when they literally said they had no plan B?

Unless they were never being honest about these deals and their intentions were never true, given the "no" camp all the ammunition they needed?

It's smart, really. It's essentially saying "You either let us pass this thing as much as we had it initially, or you're the one going down on history as the warmonger for small demands". It also takes advantage of the fact that Centro Democratico was not as prepared as the population thought for a No outcome in the referendum.

They have to press on to that narrative if they want it to work. It could tank the party nationally (except perhaps Antioquia, for obvious reasons) if they play it smart, and get the initial deal done.

Nope, this is literally an ideal scenario for the "no", a campaign based on fear of violence will only make them stronger, it's quite literally "see? we were right, FARC was never going to give up".

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Nope, this is literally an ideal scenario for the "no", a campaign based on fear of violence will only make them stronger, it's quite literally "see? we were right, FARC was never going to give up".

It's all conditioned to what I said in my post. If they start right away with the "this is on CD if this goes to shit" narrative they can pressure them.

The FARC leader has already posted on Twitter essentially "The President has said that October 31 is the end of the ceasefire, are we heading into war again?". They don't want this, they don't know if that's going to happen. They'll probably allow the military to strike first in order to have the upper hand in that narrative. It all depends on whether the government has good PR or not, and how much of a fool they are.

 

[thelastcrusader]

All my Colombian friends were furious about making peace with FARC so they are thrilled about this.

 

[jtan]

All my Colombian friends were furious about making peace with FARC so they are thrilled about this.

That's so opposite to my friends and family lol My facebook blew up, with everyone being depressed and let down by our people.

 

[WAR recon zero]

Except the part when they literally said they had no plan B?

Unless they were never being honest about these deals and their intentions were never true, given the "no" camp all the ammunition they needed?



Nope, this is literally an ideal scenario for the "no", a campaign based on fear of violence will only make them stronger, it's quite literally "see? we were right, FARC was never going to give up".

They are in the best position!

If negotiations are broken the government is at fault!

Internationally they will have support as a beligerant state!

They were ready for this. They are not idiots unlike the goverment and the No proponents.

Ex president pastrana said that 99% of the people wants peace now and we must now embrace Santos. What. The. Fuck!?

 

[Corronchilejano]

They are in the best position!

If negotiations are broken the government is at fault!

Internationally they will have support as a beligerant state!

They were ready for this. They are not idiots unlike the goverment and the No proponents.

Ex president pastrana said that 99% of the people wants peace now and we must now embrace Santos. What. The. Fuck!?

Nobody is in a good position except for Uribe.

Uribe wins either way, because he's in the spotlight right now. Even if he's saying the exact same things already contained in the agreement, people are behind him. If FARC go back to the jungle, he can just say "those terrorists never wanted peace". If FARC stays, he can say "I made the truly best deal for the country."

 

[Deleted member 80556]

God, I hate populism.

Anyway, the meeting of the President and the main No representatives happened today. A press conference is going live shortly. UPDATE: It ended. My main highlight, if I understood correctly (and there were no half-truths) was that most disagreements were in fact things that CD wants clarified and elaborated upon, rather than changed. Emphasis on most. He'll also meet with other No representatives.

This afternoon several cities around the world are supposed to do a silent march to demand peace.

EDIT: La Silla Vacía (The Empty Chair) did an analysis of which cities voted for Yes and No. Turns out that the vote was very similar to Yes=Santos and No=Uribe (or well, in the 2014 election, Oscar Ivan Zuluaga). It also reaffirms that most of the affected zones wanted Yes to win.

Also, this conclusion from the head of the Institute of Political Studies and International Relations (IEPRI) from the Universidad Nacional (one of the most important in the country) says it all:

De la Roche, aside from expressing his discontent with some communication media that in his opinion did not create enough discussion and democratic spaces to understand the deal, he emphasized that Uribe's party elaborated a speech based on fear, "full of misinformation" that was able to penetrate in several sectors of society.

 

[OmegaX]

I won't say anything about Colombia's case because it seems the situation with FARC is very complex, but if this causes Peruvian terrorists to gain followers I'll be mad. We are already seeing Sendero Luminoso's political arm coming out again to indoctrinate young people to support their political party with the purpose of liberating convicted terrorists.

 

[WAR recon zero]

Nobody is in a good position except for Uribe.

Uribe wins either way, because he's in the spotlight right now. Even if he's saying the exact same things already contained in the agreement, people are behind him. If FARC go back to the jungle, he can just say "those terrorists never wanted peace". If FARC stays, he can say "I made the truly best deal for the country."

He has lost international goodwill at least.

Ordoñez will be the next president

 

[Deleted member 80556]

He has lost international goodwill at least.

Ordoñez will be the next president

Over my dead body.

Spoiler

I really hope not.

Here's hoping that similarly to the past election, conservative leaders take each other out. And Ordoñez being the far-right leader gets the fuck out.

Nah. Last time, the far right candidate was the one that made it out.

 

[WAR recon zero]

Over my dead body.

Spoiler

I really hope not.

Here's hoping that similarly to the past election, conservative leaders take each other out. And Ordoñez being the far-right leader gets the fuck out.

Nah. Last time, the far right candidate was the one that made it out.

The catholics and cristhians are with him

We are done

 

[Deleted member 80556]

The catholics and cristhians are with him

We are done

I can't deal 4 years of Ordoñez as president. Heck, if you ignore his fucking shitastic LGBTI policies, anti-sexual education policies, and not to mention his reason of being fired from procurator (essentially hiring people who would vote for his reelection as procurator, i.e. corruption), the guy has the most annoying voice ever.

If there's a God, he'll save us from a presidency from him.

 

[Niks]

Call me delusional, but I think we will get a better Peace deal when all of this is done. Of course it will not be 100% perfect, and not everyone will still be happy, but it will be better than the first one.

Farc know that Santos tried EVERYTHING in his power to make the deal go through.. but people still felt it was not up to par.


We will see.

 

[Corronchilejano]

Call me delusional, but I think we will get a better Peace deal when all of this is done. Of course it will not be 100% perfect, and not everyone will still be happy, but it will be better than the first one.

Farc know that Santos tried EVERYTHING in his power to make the deal go through.. but people still felt it was not up to par.


We will see.

Delusional.

Uribe has been talking about points that literally already existed in the agreement, with the addition of letting police and military members who are in jail for crimes against humanity to leave scott free, with no truth nor reparations.

How is that better?

 

[Ahasverus]

If Ordoñez gets the presidence I'm fleeing the country. Not being hyperbolic here, I'll literally just use my tourism visa and get the fuck out of here as an illegal. I hate the idea with all my heart, but it's better than staying in a country with legitimized discrimination, probably a theocracy.

That said, nah, he's not winning a presidency, people hatd the guy, not only the gays.

 

[WAR recon zero]

If Ordoñez gets the presidence I'm fleeing the country. Not being hyperbolic here, I'll literally just use my tourism visa and get the fuck out of here as an illegal. I hate the idea with all my heart, but it's better than staying in a country with legitimized discrimination, probably a theocracy.

That said, nah, he's not winning a presidency, people hatd the guy, not only the gays.

Did you see the christians celebrating that Parody, the ministress of education, resigned? Is their victory. They are all out for them gays killing traditional families!

 

[Corronchilejano]

I didn't like Parody much because I thought she lacked the experience to work on the field, but I appreciate the focus she gave on gender equality education. That she was attacked constantly because of this is embarrassing to say the least.

That focus on "gender ideology" and the way religious factions have twisted the meaning of the field of study irks me, to say the least.

It's like living in Springfield. I'd be funny if people weren't suffering.

 

[kyo2004]

And the winner of Scumbag Award of the Decade goes to... CD (especially, that guy).

http://www.larepublica.co/el-no-ha-sido-la-campaña-más-barata-y-más-efectiva-de-la-historia_427891

Hicimos una etapa inicial de reactivar toda la estructura del Centro Democrático en las regiones repartiendo volantes en las ciudades. Unos estrategas de Panamá y Brasil nos dijeron que la estrategia era dejar de explicar los acuerdos para centrar el mensaje en la indignación.

Basically, instead of trying to refuse the peace agreement with arguments, they choose the blatant lies route... Just disgusting to see/reaf that interview...

 

[Corronchilejano]

You wonder why 60% of the country didn't give a damn? There you go.

EDIT: Uribe is now mad that this is now out there. There's a law against this sort of manipulation too:

Ley 1142 del 2007, ARTÍCULO 40. El artículo 388 de la Ley 599 de 2000, Código Penal quedará así:

Artículo 388. Fraude al sufragante. El que mediante maniobra engañosa, obtenga que un ciudadano o a un extranjero habilitado por la ley, vote por determinado candidato, partido o corriente política, o lo haga en blanco, incurrirá en prisión de cuatro (4) a ocho (8) años.

En igual pena incurrirá quien por el mismo medio obtenga en plebiscito, referendo, consulta popular o revocatoria del mandato votación en determinado sentido.

Fraud towards voters. He who using misleading maneuvers, makes a citizen or foreigner abided by law, to vote for a certain candidate, party or political current, or vote blank, will incurr in prison from four to eight years.

Same penalty will be applied to whoever by the same medium obtains in a plebiscite, referendum, popular consultation or revocation of mandate voting in a certain way.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Eh, the law in Colombia is written but not applied in many cases. Doubt any prosecutor or attorney would go after Uribe.

They seem to prefer to go after his family and politicians. A Minister of Housing was sent to jail for essentially giving pals money that was going to be invested in lower income people. His brother is under investigation for paramilitarism, etc.

Anyway, I also don't think we're going to get a much better deal. It'll improve in things like language, maybe economical repairs (which the deal didn't seem to specify). But in terms of justice? It's going to be shit. State agents will walk out without even telling what they did (previous deal obligated everyone, from FARC guerrilla to state agents to confess what they did).

That is, if it passes as Uribe wants it to pass. Hope the FARC demand justice for false positive victims, because I'm pretty sure that the government also forgot that almost half of the voters were in pro for the current deal. People often think that the FARC=Evil while Government=Good, while in certain cases the Government was even worse.

 

[WAR recon zero]

Again, this gives more power to FARC. This gives strength to them to not renegotiate a damn thing.

In the meantime they get drug money and keep arms. Great job CD

 

[mantidor]

That is, if it passes as Uribe wants it to pass. Hope the FARC demand justice for false positive victims, because I'm pretty sure that the government also forgot that almost half of the voters were in pro for the current deal. People often think that the FARC=Evil while Government=Good, while in certain cases the Government was even worse.

Comparing false positives to the list of Farc's crimes as some sort of leverage is nonsense, even if you believe false positives was a state policy, which is buying into Farc's propaganda and their eternal boogeyman, the "Government".

This isn't a competition anyway, for most colombians, Government = awful, farc = scum of the earth.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

A Green Party senatorCORRECTION: It were two other lawyers (although many politicians have publicly denounced the BS that CD guy said) has denounced the guy who made that interview (Velez Uribe, not to be confused with Alvaro Uribe Velez) to the authorities.

Comparing false positives to the list of Farc's crimes as some sort of leverage is nonsense, even if you believe false positives was a state policy, which is buying into Farc's propaganda and their eternal boogeyman, the "Government".

This isn't a competition anyway, for most colombians, Government = awful, farc = scum of the earth.

Obviously not, but the Government's policies during Uribe's administration, where a soldier would receive 3 million pesos per combatant killed, essentially incited false positives. State agents should be held to a higher standard in comparison to a group that is already breaking the law, asking amnesty (in this case, not telling the truth to the families, that their sons were not guerrilla combatants) for soldiers and policemen who essentially kidnapped innocent people, forced them to change to military uniform, just to then kill them and reclaim monetary reward is wrong.

But you're right, most Colombians already think that.

 

[WAR recon zero]

Comparing false positives to the list of Farc's crimes as some sort of leverage is nonsense, even if you believe false positives was a state policy, which is buying into Farc's propaganda and their eternal boogeyman, the "Government".

This isn't a competition anyway, for most colombians, Government = awful, farc = scum of the earth.

AUC= truly demons
Raping, electric saws, drinking blood and playing football with people's heads


I'm sure the guy they cheated into going with military, shot dead, planted with guns and two boots of the same side agree with you. And his families as well

But yeah. Boogeyman

 

[Deleted member 80556]

The CD guy that said the party essentially used lies to sell No as a viable option (all while taking pride for winning, the ass) quit his position in the party. "Quit" as in, being forced out because loose lips sink ships or something. There's a huge damage control campaign going on.

On similar news, a spokesman for one of the 30 companies that donated a good part of the money to the No cause, also said they donated the same amount to the Yes campaign, in a move that will make most Colombians say "WTF". (Also very funny considering one campaign was running a more efficient campaign than the other, which they probably knew)

The press (at least El Espectador) has also used No winning to reflect on what they did wrong with the referendum for peace (taking it as a done deal, thinking No supporters were a fringe group, not realizing Colombia is formed by people who think very different in different sectors that are not Bogota, among other things).

All in all, I think No might help the country in the long run to do some introspective thought about what we think, and who we are, and what we want.

Oh, and we might have a case similar to Gore v. Bush here. Similar in that Hurricane Matthews prevented their constitutional right to vote, and it's up to a court to decide whether they'll allow people in certain places will vote. I'll remind that No won by around 60K votes, which might mean the result could change, essentially trolling CD.

And CD will have their proposals ready by Monday. They are sure taking their time.

 

[turmoil]

So Santos was awarded the Nobel peace prize, could it have any influence on the public opinion in Colombia?

 

[Ahasverus]

So Santos was awarded the Nobel peace prize, could it have any influence on the public opinion in Colombia?

You bet, if there is a thing the average colombian likes is something to brag about over other countries.

Uribe must be rolling on his.. Bed hahaha

 

[turmoil]

You bet, if there is a thing the average colombian likes is something to brag about over other countries.

Uribe must be rolling on his.. Bed hahaha

That's what I was thinking lol, going down in history as the guy that frighted a Nobel prize for political leverage haha what a backfire.