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Congress overrides Obama's veto of Saudi lawsuit bill; Blame Obama for their override

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Gattsu25

Banned
From the "Is this fucking real life" department, Congress has overridden Obama's veto of the Saudi Arabia lawsuit bill and are now blaming him for letting them override his veto:
On Wednesday, Congress was so determined to pass a law to sue Saudi Arabia that it overrode President Barack Obama’s veto. But possible backlash against America had top Republican leaders looking for someone else to blame Thursday.

And they appear to have settled on Obama.


The Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act allows victims of the 9/11 attacks to sue the kingdom for its alleged, but unproven, support of the hijackers who flew planes into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

Opponents had argued that the bill was caving in to conspiracy theorists and that it would raise the specter of other nations hauling the United States into court for things it actually does — such as killing civilians in drone strikes. The White House called the override the “single most embarrassing thing that the United States Senate has done” in decades.

Even 28 lawmakers who had just helped to pass the first override of Obama’s presidency sent a letter to their own leaders Thursday saying maybe there should be changes.

So Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) leveled at least partial blame on Obama.

“That was a good example, it seems to me, of a failure to communicate early about the potential consequences of a piece of legislation,” McConnell told reporters before Congress got out of town until after the elections. “By the time everybody seemed to focus on some potential consequences of it, members had already basically taken a position.”

“I think it was just a ball dropped,” McConnell added. “I wish the president — I hate to blame everything on him, and I don’t — but it would have been helpful had he, uh, we had a discussion about this much earlier than last week.”
More details, and video, at the source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...is-veto_us_57edacd1e4b082aad9ba8595?section=&

Edit: fixed a typo and pulling in a relevant quote from the old thread:
Note these same exact people didn't get only one chance to vote through this

they got two

Also

CtkMA52VYAAWVLB.jpg


I think that is what a veto is for

Edit2: If your only contribution is to toss around "what if" fanfiction of the "both sides" variety then you can keep it to yourself.
 

Derwind

Member
"That was a good example, it seems to me, of a failure to communicate early about the potential consequences of a piece of legislation,” McConnell told reporters before Congress got out of town until after the elections. “By the time everybody seemed to focus on some potential consequences of it, members had already basically taken a position.”

Ideally, ypu shouldn't hold a position in government if you arbitrarily take positions without thinking things through.

But alas, here we are.
 
Are you fucking kidding me? I wanted to burn the house down, daddy said dont, so I did it anyway and now that everything is gone its daddy's fault.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
There are few people that make my blood pressure rise more than, say, Donald Trump, but Mitch McConnell is one of them. Truly one of the most infuriating, dishonest, weaselly scumbag motherfuckers in the US government.
 
"He didn't tell us what it meant, ignore the veto message some thoughtful person is about to post below"

Veto Message from the President -- S.2040

TO THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES:

I am returning herewith without my approval S. 2040, the "Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act" (JASTA), which would, among other things, remove sovereign immunity in U.S. courts from foreign governments that are not designated state sponsors of terrorism.

I have deep sympathy for the families of the victims of the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 (9/11), who have suffered grievously. I also have a deep appreciation of these families' desire to pursue justice and am strongly committed to assisting them in their efforts.

Consistent with this commitment, over the past 8 years, I have directed my Administration to pursue relentlessly al Qa'ida, the terrorist group that planned the 9/11 attacks. The heroic efforts of our military and counterterrorism professionals have decimated al-Qa'ida's leadership and killed Osama bin Laden. My Administration also strongly supported, and I signed into law, legislation which ensured that those who bravely responded on that terrible day and other survivors of the attacks will be able to receive treatment for any injuries resulting from the attacks. And my Administration also directed the Intelligence Community to perform a declassification review of "Part Four of the Joint Congressional Inquiry into Intelligence Community Activities Before and After the Terrorist Attacks of September 11," so that the families of 9/11 victims and broader public can better understand the information investigators gathered following that dark day of our history.

Notwithstanding these significant efforts, I recognize that there is nothing that could ever erase the grief the 9/11 families have endured. My Administration therefore remains resolute in its commitment to assist these families in their pursuit of justice and do whatever we can to prevent another attack in the United States. Enacting JASTA into law, however, would neither protect Americans from terrorist attacks nor improve the effectiveness of our response to such attacks. As drafted, JASTA would allow private litigation against foreign governments in U.S. courts based on allegations that such foreign governments' actions abroad made them responsible for terrorism-related injuries on U.S. soil. This legislation would permit litigation against countries that have neither been designated by the executive branch as state sponsors of terrorism nor taken direct actions in the United States to carry out an attack here. The JASTA would be detrimental to U.S. national interests more broadly, which is why I am returning it without my approval.

First, JASTA threatens to reduce the effectiveness of our response to indications that a foreign government has taken steps outside our borders to provide support for terrorism, by taking such matters out of the hands of national security and foreign policy professionals and placing them in the hands of private litigants and courts.

Any indication that a foreign government played a role in a terrorist attack on U.S. soil is a matter of deep concern and merits a forceful, unified Federal Government response that considers the wide range of important and effective tools available. One of these tools is designating the foreign government in question as a state sponsor of terrorism, which carries with it a litany of repercussions, including the foreign government being stripped of its sovereign immunity before U.S. courts in certain terrorism-related cases and subjected to a range of sanctions. Given these serious consequences, state sponsor of terrorism designations are made only after national security, foreign policy, and intelligence professionals carefully review all available information to determine whether a country meets the criteria that the Congress established.

In contrast, JASTA departs from longstanding standards and practice under our Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act and threatens to strip all foreign governments of immunity from judicial process in the United States based solely upon allegations by private litigants that a foreign government's overseas conduct had some role or connection to a group or person that carried out a terrorist attack inside the United States. This would invite consequential decisions to be made based upon incomplete information and risk having different courts reaching different conclusions about the culpability of individual foreign governments and their role in terrorist activities directed against the United States -- which is neither an effective nor a coordinated way for us to respond to indications that a foreign government might have been behind a terrorist attack.

Second, JASTA would upset longstanding international principles regarding sovereign immunity, putting in place rules that, if applied globally, could have serious implications for U.S. national interests. The United States has a larger international presence, by far, than any other country, and sovereign immunity principles protect our Nation and its Armed Forces, officials, and assistance professionals, from foreign court proceedings. These principles also protect U.S. Government assets from attempted seizure by private litigants abroad. Removing sovereign immunity in U.S. courts from foreign governments that are not designated as state sponsors of terrorism, based solely on allegations that such foreign governments' actions abroad had a connection to terrorism-related injuries on U.S. soil, threatens to undermine these longstanding principles that protect the United States, our forces, and our personnel.

Indeed, reciprocity plays a substantial role in foreign relations, and numerous other countries already have laws that allow for the adjustment of a foreign state's immunities based on the treatment their governments receive in the courts of the other state. Enactment of JASTA could encourage foreign governments to act reciprocally and allow their domestic courts to exercise jurisdiction over the United States or U.S. officials -- including our men and women in uniform -- for allegedly causing injuries overseas via U.S. support to third parties. This could lead to suits against the United States or U.S. officials for actions taken by members of an armed group that received U.S. assistance, misuse of U.S. military equipment by foreign forces, or abuses committed by police units that received U.S. training, even if the allegations at issue ultimately would be without merit. And if any of these litigants were to win judgments -- based on foreign domestic laws as applied by foreign courts -- they would begin to look to the assets of the U.S. Government held abroad to satisfy those judgments, with potentially serious financial consequences for the United States.

Third, JASTA threatens to create complications in our relationships with even our closest partners. If JASTA were enacted, courts could potentially consider even minimal allegations accusing U.S. allies or partners of complicity in a particular terrorist attack in the United States to be sufficient to open the door to litigation and wide-ranging discovery against a foreign country -- for example, the country where an individual who later committed a terrorist act traveled from or became radicalized. A number of our allies and partners have already contacted us with serious concerns about the bill. By exposing these allies and partners to this sort of litigation in U.S. courts, JASTA threatens to limit their cooperation on key national security issues, including counterterrorism initiatives, at a crucial time when we are trying to build coalitions, not create divisions.

The 9/11 attacks were the worst act of terrorism on U.S. soil, and they were met with an unprecedented U.S. Government response. The United States has taken robust and wide-ranging actions to provide justice for the victims of the 9/11 attacks and keep Americans safe, from providing financial compensation for victims and their families to conducting worldwide counterterrorism programs to bringing criminal charges against culpable individuals. I have continued and expanded upon these efforts, both to help victims of terrorism gain justice for the loss and suffering of their loved ones and to protect the United States from future attacks. The JASTA, however, does not contribute to these goals, does not enhance the safety of Americans from terrorist attacks, and undermines core U.S. interests.

For these reasons, I must veto the bill.

BARACK OBAMA

THE WHITE HOUSE,
September 23, 2016.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2016/09/23/veto-message-president-s2040
 

Demoskinos

Member
Boy this is like the Olympics of mental gymnastics right here. Caught with egg on your face because you did a thing you realize is embarrassing and blame the guy who tried to stop it in the first place after you went over his head? Sure, that checks out.
 

pa22word

Member
I mean I get the theme of the topic is to throw the GOP under the bus, but schumer comes off as the asshole here more than anyone.

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-09-29/congress-signals-regret-after-overriding-veto-of-saudi-9-11-bill said:
Chuck Schumer of New York, the likely next Democratic leader and sponsor of the bill, said he wouldn’t accept changes that would weaken the bill.

“I’m willing to look at any proposal they make, but not any that hurt the families,” Schumer said Thursday.

I mean yeah, the McConnel could have killed it but in an election year who in the hell is going to kill a bill like this? Schumer knifing obama in the back seems to me the bigger deal in this event.
 
To bad fair to Congress, they only wrote the bill. Can we really expect them to both read and write bills? I don't think we're paying them enough for that.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Obama was warning everybody in APRIL.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/276696-white-house-signals-veto-on-saudi-9-11-bill

“Given the long list of concerns I have expressed ... it’s difficult to imagine a scenario in which the president would sign the bill as it's currently drafted,” White House press secretary Josh Earnest told reporters.
Earnest argued the legislation could jeopardize U.S. citizens overseas if other countries were to pass reciprocal laws that remove foreign immunity in their courts.

“It could put the United States and our taxpayers and our service members and our diplomats at significant risk if other countries were to adopt a similar law,” he said.

“The whole notion of sovereign immunity is at stake.”

APRIL FUCKING 18th.
 

JP_

Banned
Cornyn bitching about Obama not doing enough to stop it after they voted again to override his veto:
“What’s so remarkable to me is the detachment of this White House from anything to do with the legislative process,” Cornyn told reporters. “They were basically missing in action during this whole process.”

Cornyn bitching about Obama doing too much to stop it 6 months ago:
“It appears that the Obama administration is pulling out all the stops to keep this bill from moving forward before the president’s visit to Riydah,” he said. “I wish the President and his aides would spend as much time and energy working with us in a bipartisan manner as they have working against us trying to prevent victims of terrorism from receiving the justice they deserve.”

Shit for brains.
 

gdt

Member
So essentially, this is something that both parties unconditionally support, right?

Why it seems like people only angry towards the Republican, then?

The republicans are the ones blaming Obama for this dumb move. Dems are just staying shut because they know it's dumb but they think they have to do it anyway in an election year.
 

Alucrid

Banned
i assume that since the bill had "9/11" and "terrorism" in it they all just said yes. as opposed to if the bill had "9/11" and "healthcare" where they all just said "ehhhhh do we really have to?"
 

Piecake

Member
So essentially, this is something that both parties unconditionally support, right?

Why it seems like people only angry towards the Republican, then?

Read what Mitch McConnell said and who he blamed for the bill. That is the whole point of this thread.

The other thread about the entirety of the bill has posters shitting on both Republicans and Democrats equally.
 

Chumly

Member
funny because i don't remember there being 97 republicans in the senate, unless "republicans" is just a euphemism now for "someone I don't agree with"
Please re-read the first post. You seem to be in the wrong thread. Your just as bad as the republicans that can't seem to read.
 

Dude Abides

Banned
What did Obama think they would do right after the 15th anniversary of 9/11?

I guess he didn't get the memo that SA doesn't have the pull it once did.
 

t26

Member
You would expect more effort from Saudi lobbyists. You would also expect someone like Barbara Boxer, who is not running for reelection, to vote against this.
 

Piecake

Member
funny because i don't remember there being 97 republicans in the senate, unless "republicans" is just a euphemism now for "someone I don't agree with"

Blaming everything on him and refusing to listen/work/cooperate with him isn't emblematic?
 

RaidenZR

Member
The irony is that Obama himself framed a far better reason for the veto last night at the Town Hall.

Obama said:
"If you're perceived as voting against 9/11 families right before an election, not surprisingly, that's a hard vote for people to take. But it would have been the right thing to do ... And it was, you know, basically a political vote...

I understand why it happened. Obviously all of us still carry the scars and trauma of 9/11. Nobody more than this 9/11 generation that has fought on our behalf in the aftermath of 9/11,

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/28/politics/obama-override-veto-911-bill-cnn-presidential-town-hall/

What did Obama think they would do right after the 15th anniversary of 9/11?

I guess he didn't get the memo that SA doesn't have the pull it once did.

He didn't expect it, but he hoped for common sense to prevail. Watch the video clip at the link I posted.
 
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