RadioHeadAche
Member
Silent Hill 3 is my favorite, and seeing it butchered like that hurt.
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Did Konami ever fix the Silent Hill HD collection?
- Thread starter gdt
- Start date
McGlynn (and Hewlett) even fucked up the most important scene in the game. That's how bad the new voice acting is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxYkNUyBhS4&t=24m54s <-- spoilers obviously
Using original sourcecode is not even the problem. But they knew that the game was broken and beta. And right then they should have started from scratch and used the code right from the PS2 discs. If the Konami suits would have cared a bit, they would have hired Bluepoint at that point.
So you don't agree with Team Silent's decision. That's your choice, but then you don't want to experience Silent Hill 2 as Team Silent wanted you to. Team Silent used Guy Cihi's face and he was also motion captured, so he is part of the game anyway even when you like Troy Baker's voice "acting" hack job.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxYkNUyBhS4&t=29m38s
"You better do something about that cough, bro!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxYkNUyBhS4&t=30m25s
papercan55
Member
I understand your passion but you people are so harsh, the hd collection on ps3 post patch is not this bad.(360 is still awful)
They fixed a lot, if not most of the problems seen in the videos and pictures posted.
I completely agree that the originals on a sd tv are the best way to play them, but the ps3 version if it's your only choice is not as bad as people here make it out to be.
Not everyone has the pc games and the ability to run them with added bells and whistles.
I'm a huge silent hill fan, and whilst i want a better collection like everyone else i would never stop anyone from experiencing these amazing games, even if they do have worse fog or a few odd sounds.
They fixed a lot, if not most of the problems seen in the videos and pictures posted.
I completely agree that the originals on a sd tv are the best way to play them, but the ps3 version if it's your only choice is not as bad as people here make it out to be.
Not everyone has the pc games and the ability to run them with added bells and whistles.
I'm a huge silent hill fan, and whilst i want a better collection like everyone else i would never stop anyone from experiencing these amazing games, even if they do have worse fog or a few odd sounds.
Only if you own the 360 version as the ps3 one was patched
angular graphics
Banned
Just because they were working with "beta" code does not mean they cannot approximate or even replicate the "gold" version's code. The gold version was derived from that beta code after all. It would require more effort for sure but it doesn't excuse their sloppy work.
They did. In the end the HD Collection is (more or less) asset complete. Again, that was a hurdle they had to overcome - it's not what made this a crappy port as the assets were recovered.
DrDrizzay101
Member
I take it all back then, haha.
Gold version was derived from the beta code by the original creative team which does not exist anymore. This is the crucial point. That moment in time is gone forever.
The new "creative team" came in and wanted to put their stamp on it or try to "improve it," in addition to the myriad technical problems that are well documented.
Steam, PS4, XBONE?
Comfort Jones
Banned
No, it's not. It's really not.
I'm not sure what you mean when you say non acting. Is it because he sounds kinda awkward and dumb? Cuz uh, idunno if you noticed but...James is both of those things.
Your original argument mentioned that he killed the "immersion". I dunno man a guy coming off as kinda awkward and weird seems a lot more believable than that weird phantom of the opera shit Troy was doing.
Troy Baker is a great actor, but he doesn't really capture the fragility of James, that Cihi's voice had.
Mary and Maria were actually better before, has Mary Elizabeth isn't really an impressive actress to begin with.
Laura instead of a real child actress, it's an adult doing a creepy high pitched voice.
Angela also lost her uniqueness for a more straightforward teenage voice.
Good or bad acting isn't the only element to keep track of, when you end up coming off as very by the books and actually removing life and personality out of a character.
Add to that the obvious lip sync problems and the whole issue of art preservation, and you can see why this new dub was a bad idea in the first place.
To me even the wooden acting in Silent Hill 1 is an integral part of the experience.
Just like the intentional wooden and surreal acting in some of Lynch's movies, it creates a certain mood that if you were to simply substitute it for the emotional "panting after every word" they seem to go for in the SH2 dub, you'd be losing a big part of its essence.
angular graphics
Banned
Symptoms such as lost fog and such are not a result of a new creative vision it's a result of sloppy coding.
New voice acting etc sure. But that's a whole different issue and has nothing to do with what assets or code they had to work with.
I won't comment on the majority of the new performances, but I will say that making Angela less 'unique' is probably the only redeeming feature of the HD collection.
Acquiescence
Member
No, I don't agree with Team Silent's decision to cast a man who can't act in a dramatic lead role. I understand that scoping out Western actors for a video game in the year 2000 wasn't going to turn up the crème de la crème of thespian talent, but if a guy can't even deliver his lines convincingly, then it's hard to ignore. Thankfully, I was able to experience the rest of Silent Hill 2 as it was intended, because outside of the performances, it's a masterpiece.
And if you're going to link to a Twin Perfect video, please state so explicitly. I just gave those obnoxious hacks a hit they didn't deserve.
Acquiescence
Member
I wouldn't describe James as dumb. He's broken, submissive, dead inside, weedy, but not dumb. I picked up on all those character traits through his actions, his dialogue and the twisted imagery, but not through Cihi's performance. He does sound awkward, but to me only in the way that a man with no previous acting experience who suddenly finds himself in a mocap studio with lines to deliver sounds awkward.
DrDrizzay101
Member
Right, that's exactly what I was saying. You had two toxic factors of (1) huge technical issues of incomplete code and sloppy porting, as well as (2) the new team trying to make creative changes (even re-writing parts of the script, etc.).
A voice timbre is a specific character trait that gets lost when you change the voice actor so drastically, so is the overacting Baker does on Silent Hill 2 going to change the character.
I'm not one to say that Silent Hill 2 didn't have overacting before, or that it did have masterclass actors under its belt, but it was a vision directed by the people that had actually created the scenario and written the story.
So when i'm faced with two different characters (Cihi's and Baker's) neither of them particularly great in terms of delivery (not exactly Baker's best performance) i'm not gonna get the one directed by a person that at the time wasn't even involved with the series.
I mean it's fine if you don't like Cihi's performance as an amateur, i don't want to change your mind on that, but his voice gave James a very specific feel, personality and fragility, that is lost in the new VO, which changes James' character, which changes the way a player will experience the story.
The original voice actors in Silent Hill 2 + 3 don't do Hollywood "acting". Which actually was a good thing and made the characters believable and real. Still something about it felt off. Which again was done on purpose by Team Silent.
See for example Angela. Some people nowadays say that her acting was bad and that it sounds off and weird. Well, that's exactly what she was supposed to sound like. Her character is a broken abused mess. She was also not supposed to sound her age, but older. Because of her mental state. Which again makes sense.
The whole cast was intentionally done by Team Silent and they knew what they were doing. I also remember noone complaining about specific actors back then when it was released. If there was such horrible acting in the game, it wouldn't have had so many fans. It wouldn't have made so many people love those games. Why would people care about the SH2 characters so much in case the acting was super horrible. It doesn't make sense.
Team Silent also actually used a real child for the part of Laura. And she simply sounds convincing because well duh she is an actual child. The new Laura is an adult woman pretending to be a child. Which of course fails as well. Unless you are used to Hollywood/Animu-"child"-voices, which are often done by adult woman.
See also Vincent of Silent Hill 3. In case you are used to Hollywood acting, his acting could be considered bad as well, because it's simply not Hollywood. But in fact it's one of the best characters in the Silent Hill series, especially because of the superb voice acting. Which is again destroyed by the new voice actors, because they didn't have a clue what they were doing.
Just look at how many groans and moans were added and amplified in the new voice "acting". It's Hollywood-style and not realistic at all. Sure, if you are used to such movies, you will miss those sounds.
smh
Yeah, that's a nice way to not respond to the broken new voice "acting". It's pretty obvious that the new "Tom Hewlett"-voice acting is extremely bad, when you listen to the same scenes and compare the original voice acting to the new one.
btw. calling Twin Perfect "hacks" is really funny. They spent months to create their in depth Silent Hill HD review, which got more views than HD collections were sold. You may not like their humour, but their information in their videos is 100% top notch and people, who worked with Team Silent, actually said the same. I think there is not a single review of any video game out there, that's more in depth than their videos.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
I'm actually hoping for this, now Silent Hill is under Kojima's wing maybe he'll release a collection under Kojima Pro on PS4/PC/X1 which obviously will get the love and attention it deserves.
I lost a lot of respect for Mary Elizabeth after how she carried herself on the HD Collection. Basically saying the old voices were garbage, that they were not owed any money for there performance capture (they were), mocking said actors. Then delivering a hilariously woeful performance and under whose direction the rest of the voice acting sucked. Her work as an anime voice director shone through as the HD Collection voice work has all the subtlety of a hammer.
HD Collection is not only a blight in a technical standpoint but also the way they tried to "improve" the story was heinous.
HD Collection is not only a blight in a technical standpoint but also the way they tried to "improve" the story was heinous.
They just could release something like Silent Hill Saga for PC/X1/PS4.
Having good HD ports of SH 1-2-3-4 would be a good start, until then I'll continue to hang out with the OG version on their OG hardware (or via emulation if I feel HD), which probably will be forever.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
2 looks amazing at higher resolutions so it really is a shame they completely botched the HD releases:
OverBlood 3
Banned
The re-releases are fundamentally flawed because they changed the direction of the games. Instead of just HDing them their egos got in the way and they attempted to fix what wasn't broken. Which meant they didn't understand what made the originals masterpieces in the first place. Absolutely everything is off about the rereleases without even considering the awful optimisation.
I urge people to play the originals. Also ignore everyone that has something even remotely positive to say about the re-releases, they're plain wrong.
Absolutely.
I urge people to play the originals. Also ignore everyone that has something even remotely positive to say about the re-releases, they're plain wrong.
Absolutely.
OverBlood 3
Banned
I can't think of a single thing that's 'positive' about the re-releases. Nothing at all that makes them better than the originals other than 'convenience'. If you want to take convenience over vastly superior versions of a game then I don't even know what to say.
boredandlazy
Member
Didn't Bluepoint actually go buy retail copies of the games they converted so they could reverse engineer them?
It just highlights the ignorance going that they thought they were 'fixing' this. And that the stuff in SH2/3 were graphically flaws instead of conscious choices made by the creative team to evoke fear/unease.
God, it makes me angry how much it makes me angry thinking about that collection.
God, it makes me angry how much it makes me angry thinking about that collection.
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
I am in the exact same position as the OP, the PS3 version is my only way of playing it. Trying to decide if it would be better to not play it at all rather than playing a gimped version of it
Eh, I played it and it was alright. I hardly remember what SH2 and 3 look like but some of the screens here do show that a lot of the art was (and still is) ruined in the HD collection but really I have no other option to play this so I went ahead and got it.
Currently going through SH3 right now and enjoying it, I'd definitely buy a fixed HD version that had all the oppressive atmosphere of the originals and with SH4 to boot as thats the only SH game I haven't played beyond any psp/wii ones.
Currently going through SH3 right now and enjoying it, I'd definitely buy a fixed HD version that had all the oppressive atmosphere of the originals and with SH4 to boot as thats the only SH game I haven't played beyond any psp/wii ones.
TunaUppercut
Neo Member
cj_iwakura
Member
The PS1 version.
And crap 'remasters' like this is why I still have my PS2 and oXbox.
Ingueferroque
Banned
Look at the gifs above.
The PC ports are quite good as well, SH3 more so.
"Everybody really sucked....he just sucked" looool
I feel vindicated by this interview. Game's voice acting is the worst. Fans do some amazing gymnastics to try and minimize/justify it (when they don't even need to, it's okay if the VA is bad, you can still like the game/story)
this scene may as well be in Deadly Premonition:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qPRYM8dvEw
Jawmuncher
Member
Its sad that even with a HD collection out you're better off playing SH2&3 any other way.
If I recall the prices on the PS2 games never went down as much because of the poor quality there.
As I said in another thread was surprised they didn't offer something for SH fans. Even if it was just PS2 collections of all the games. At least they would all be available in one place.
If I recall the prices on the PS2 games never went down as much because of the poor quality there.
As I said in another thread was surprised they didn't offer something for SH fans. Even if it was just PS2 collections of all the games. At least they would all be available in one place.
I stand by my defense of it. It sounds stilted and it helps convey these people as damaged. Even if its lame they sound more real than the anime voice actors they hired for the HD collection and the stilted voice-work adds a lot to the already uneasy atmosphere. Bad/weird acting can go a long way. I mean look at David Lynch films.
that music though
The original versions of these games are all still very playable and look fantastic. SH1 is of course extremely dated, but it is pretty good looking for a PS1 game. SH2 and SH3 on the PS2 still look fantastic, and really didn't need an HD remake to begin with.
These games are all fantastic and if you don't have a BC PS3 then I would personally recommend just dropping the cash on a PS2 and original copies of all of the games. PS2's are pretty cheap on eBay these days, and while the SH games may be a bit expensive they aren't out of the realm of reason, and they are worth the price. Silent Hill is one of those series that you buy and never let go of, that is one of the reasons they go for quite a bit more than most PS1 and PS2 games. I still have all of my original copies going all the way back to SH1 in complete and mint condition, and I couldn't even imagine letting go of those gems.
Oddly enough I never even bothered with Homecoming or Downpour. I think I was just done with the series after they left team Silent.
These games are all fantastic and if you don't have a BC PS3 then I would personally recommend just dropping the cash on a PS2 and original copies of all of the games. PS2's are pretty cheap on eBay these days, and while the SH games may be a bit expensive they aren't out of the realm of reason, and they are worth the price. Silent Hill is one of those series that you buy and never let go of, that is one of the reasons they go for quite a bit more than most PS1 and PS2 games. I still have all of my original copies going all the way back to SH1 in complete and mint condition, and I couldn't even imagine letting go of those gems.
Oddly enough I never even bothered with Homecoming or Downpour. I think I was just done with the series after they left team Silent.
tav7623
Member
Can't really add anything new to this discussion that hasn't already been brought up at some point, but I figured I'd throw in my two cents anyway and say that the SH HD Collection is (to me at least) like one of those crazy bad movies that you can't help but watch over and over and over again even though you know its (not in a its so bad it's good kind of way) bad. It also amazes me to hear that some of the people behind the HD collection (mainly the voice actors & producers) thought/still think they were making a lot of good decisions despite a ton of feedback during and after production from fans (most of whom loved them enough to know the games inside & out) and some of the game's original creators saying/pointing out that they were making some really bad/poor decisions that were going against their stated reason for remastering the games (introducing the original games to a new generation of players) in the first place.
It's also funny to recall that Konami & the people responsible for the HD port didn't even bother to look up the original voice actress of Heather in SH3 to get her agreement to re-release the work she did. Thus, the new voice acting in SH3 wasn't even needed, if Konami & co. had actually done their research and gotten the approval of the SH3 voice actors.
And let's not even talk about the fucking script changes. Like holy fuck, how can anyone start changing up the actual lines of an original work? Who do the people responsible think they are?
And let's not even talk about the fucking script changes. Like holy fuck, how can anyone start changing up the actual lines of an original work? Who do the people responsible think they are?
moltonasty
Member
Personally I think the best way to play SH 2 is the Xbox release (Restless Dreams) and for SH3 PC version all the way.
HD Collection is utter trash. PLEASE, anyone who is new to the SH franchise DO NOT START HERE.
HD Collection is utter trash. PLEASE, anyone who is new to the SH franchise DO NOT START HERE.
Reading up on the changes in the HD version, I can't even stomach shit like this:
And the fucking most pivotable video tape scene in Silent Hill 2 is just god awful, like if the developers wanted to make a hilarious joke on its consumers:
HOLY FUCK
- Saving the game at a Halo of the Sun is fade-to-white instead of fade-to-red.
- All music has been reworked or changed entirely. It is most noted in the Otherworld mall; the ambient music has been changed to a punk rock type of beat.
- During the Leonard Wolf boss fight, both Heather and Leonard are able to sprint full speed in the water as if the water doesn't exist
- 14 of Heather's unlockable costumes that were present in the PS2 version were removed.
- During Eddie's rant in the Labyrinth, when he says, "It doesn't matter if you're smart, dumb, ugly, pretty...", the subtitles say "your" instead of "you're".[9]
And the fucking most pivotable video tape scene in Silent Hill 2 is just god awful, like if the developers wanted to make a hilarious joke on its consumers:
HOLY FUCK
You are just scratching the tip of the iceberg...The original Team Silent must have been seriously depressed when these were released, such a disgusting lack of respect.
I don't think i'm under any illusion about Cihi & co being professional actors, we know some of them sucked, the point is different.
They got replaced with completely different voices and performances that deeply altered those characters and the player perception of them.
As if that wasn't enough, they got replaced by some anime VA that don't do a very good job themselves at it, with a distractingly bad lip sync and some silly "intense performance".
The netpositive is nullified if it was ever there.
Though at least for SH2 they got to preserve the original VA, so no big deal in that sense.
More over, the point moved by Anung is very valid, as the short comings in expressive acting become, to the game that makes of surrealism a core pillar of its language, a powerful weapon.
You can call that mental gymnastic, but do you think someone like Lynch, using the very same tool, doesn't have access to talented English speaking actors? And yet awkward and apparently stilted acting are very prevalent in his movies.
Whether the intentions of Cihi were to deliver his best Hollywood impression or not is beyond the point, of course... which is why his level of professionalism isn't really in question.
I always interpreted that "video" as being in James' head as much as it was on the TV screen... guess not!Reading up on the changes in the HD version, I can't even stomach shit like this:
- Saving the game at a Halo of the Sun is fade-to-white instead of fade-to-red.
- All music has been reworked or changed entirely. It is most noted in the Otherworld mall; the ambient music has been changed to a punk rock type of beat.
- During the Leonard Wolf boss fight, both Heather and Leonard are able to sprint full speed in the water as if the water doesn't exist
- 14 of Heather's unlockable costumes that were present in the PS2 version were removed.
- During Eddie's rant in the Labyrinth, when he says, "It doesn't matter if you're smart, dumb, ugly, pretty...", the subtitles say "your" instead of "you're".[9]
And the fucking most pivotable video tape scene in Silent Hill 2 is just god awful, like if the developers wanted to make a hilarious joke on its consumers:
HOLY FUCK
So fucking dumb.
I still can't believe how terrible the lake looked. Yuck.
God dam lol
Holy shit I think I just need to see that HD collection review and get the horror over with, every time I think I've seen the full extent of it's butchery there's always more and it's always worse.
Why? The bonus episode is available on PC and PS2 (Director's Cut), too but, the PS2 version has the best fog effects of all three versions.
angular graphics
Banned
And the fucking most pivotable video tape scene in Silent Hill 2 is just god awful, like if the developers wanted to make a hilarious joke on its consumers:
HOLY FUCK
This was probably an "inspired" solution to make the 4:3 image fit to a 16:9 frame.
The voice acting in SH2 was pretty bad lol. But the awfulness of it fit the characters. James sounded absolutely broken, Angela had these strange mannerisms that made her sound like a victim of abuse, Eddie sounded like an obnoxious and cowardly prick, and Laura sounded like a spoiled little brat. The best of the bunch was easily Mary/Marie.