Support NeoGAF

[Drewfonse]

Game will look beautiful running on my x.

 

[LKSmash]

Just trying to be clear here, when you say varied 4K offerings, you are saying different types of rendering techniques like checkboarding etc?

I feel like this is bait lol but yes, they've stated that the type of rendering will include checkboard, dynamic and native depending on the developer. Only their internal titles will absolutely be native.

 

[gamz]

They didn't have to promise 4K for every game in order have embarrassing marketing John. Don't defend that.

Had we had less of buzzwords and more down to earth ads, people would not be reacting like this(of course with the Pro's fauxK mocking, maybe not)

Huh? Again, Phil can only control his own games, not every devs games. Again, hes said many times it's up to them. Every game is different so what are you so angry about?

 

[AngelOFDeath]

MS has no control what devs do with the power of the X. Do you seriously want Phil to watch over every single game. You are being silly.

Of course he has no control over it, just the choice of wording against the other team, in hindsight, doesn't make sense when its happening on their box as well.

Talk is gonna talk, that is never gonna change, whether you got Phil taking a dump on Pro's 4k capabilties and using True 4K terms, to Jim 4 da kids & BC sucks talk. I'm just saying that Phil's choice of wording/marketing is, just based off this 1 game alone, unfortunate that is all.

 

[LEDsForEyes]

Indeed. This is just silly. The implementation is fantastic and genuinely looks native in most situations. The hate in regards to this type of rendering baffles me. It's a good way to get solid results with a reduced performance cost. MS never promised native 4K for every game - it's up to devs.

What bothers me is that the game looks fantastic. So much detail with great looking lighting, water, etc. But all we get in this thread is PS4P vs XBOX bickering.

Wait till you show everyone how much better Xbox One X looks over the pro

.....

I don't get it. Their launch dates are separated by a year. If anyone's reaction is anything other than "well, duh" when the XBox is more powerful, then they deserve a good slap in the face.

 

[jonscrambler]

it is the truer 4k system

 

[LukasTaves]

NBA 2k17 went from 1080p on PS4 to native (not checkerboard) 4k on PS4Pro.. You may want to edit that post.

A 1080p60 game on Ps4 with plenty of power to spare there*, is not the same jump as a 900p with framerate drops on the original console.

*Couldn't find a definitive answer for the xbone, but the previous ones were 1080p60 even there, which shows Ps4 did have headroom for this game.

 

[Crayon]

Checkerboard looks great I hope we get more of that instead of throwing everything at tiny native 4k pixels.

The reason this is getting raked is the irony of it all.

 

[gamz]

Of course he has no control over it, just the choice of wording against the other team, in hindsight, doesn't make sense when its happening on their box as well.

Talk is gonna talk, that is never gonna change, whether you got Phil taking a dump and using True 4K terms, to Jim 4 da kids & BC sucks talk. I'm just saying that Phil's choice of wording/marketing is, just based off this 1 game alone, unfortunate that is all.

So you are saying Phil is lying when he says it's up to the devs how to use the power? I mean have you watched the video? Game looks and plays amazing and it's in Alpha. Enjoy.

 

[nextgeneration]

For the people who are disappointed/shocked by this, well, prepare yourself, as there will be more games in the future that will not be native 4k and will use checkerboard instead. I think the question that needs to be asked here is would you rather have native 4k in Assassin's but lower visual fidelity or increased visual fidelity but that uses checkerboard to get almost native 4k quality. I think I would pick the latter, if visual fidelity is what matters most to you.

 

[onQ123]

Which 900p ps4 game reached 2160c on Pro?

You know what? I need a witness or better yet The Witness!


it went from 900P on PS4 to having a native 4K option on PS4 Pro

 

[Tripolygon]

Your reason was that the PS4 Pro was also a "true 4K" console, so don't give me that shit.

I'm pretty sure my argument is that there is no such thing as true X resolution console designation for any console ever, tried to use Xbox One and PS4 with 1080p games as an example but you kept insisting on going with this "true 4K" nonsense. In fact i said this to you in that thread.

So big budget games aren't always more often than not a lot prettier than their lower budget, more indie title counterparts? Are you saying AAA titles don't exist now?

Yeah, I'd agree that the X1 isn't a true 1080p console. If anything you've just solidified my point haha.

No, big budget games aren't always the prettiest. There are lots more beautiful low budget games than big budget games because of art style. No i do not agree that Xbox One is not a 1080p console just because you make up an arbitrary narrow criteria to fit some narrative of what a true 4K console is. There has never been a true X resolution console designation for any console ever. There have however been certain common capabilities that defined a given generation like 8bit, 16bit, 32bit/3D polygon era etc. Last gen was considered HD and majority of console games were 720p or less.

You are however free to call whatever console you like true 1080p or 4K console if that makes you happy.

 

[EvB]

Why are you posting false statements?


Some 1080P PS4 games are native 4K on PS4 Pro

Mostly HD remasters from last gen and smaller indie titles

 

[Inuhanyou]

Huh? Again, Phil can only control his own games, not every devs games. Again, hes said many times it's up to them. Every game is different so what are you so angry about?

I'm angry at the marketing of the XBX, phils annoying statements like "Pro is aiming for Xbox One S", and the buzzwords they are using to try and artificially create hype.

My irritation doesn't have anything to do with what the XBX actually puts out.

 

[jroc74]

^Exactly.

Of course he has no control over it, just the choice of wording against the other team, in hindsight, doesn't make sense when its happening on their box as well.

Talk is gonna talk, that is never gonna change, whether you got Phil taking a dump and using True 4K terms, to Jim 4 da kids & BC sucks talk. I'm just saying that Phil's choice of wording/marketing is, just based off this 1 game alone, unfortunate that is all.

Cant get any more clearer than this.

it is the truer 4k system

This would have been better for him to say. Especially when the PS4 Pro has games that do native 4K.

PS4 Pro, said to be the first 4K console. True.
XBO X, said to be first console to do true 4K, False.

And it kind of shows some things when you have recent PS4 games come out and it says right in the OP, native 4K, and we have this thread with arguments going back n forth about whats a lie vs whats not.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1386963

Motion blur enabled:
-4K output: 2160p with checkerboarding
-1080p output: 1080p with 4x SSAA

Motion Blur disabled:
-4K output: Native 4K with 4x8 EQAA
-1080p output: 1080p with 4x SSAA

Now, seeing those settings please explain how what Phil said is not a lie....

This is what happens when you make broad, general statements.

Even saying the XBO X will have no compromises for whatever that was implied to was false. It might have...less...compromises than the Pro but again, none is false.

 

[KAOz]

So you are saying Phil is lying when he says it's up to the devs how to use the power? I mean have you watched the video? Game looks and plays amazing and it's in Alpha. Enjoy.

What the poster is trying to say is that Phil is bullshitting when Phil claimed XboneX did not use similair techniques as Pro to reach 4K and thereby where not competing.
When in actuallity they very muchly use the same ways.

The checkerboarding is no problem in itself, it is a great solution on all fronts.

 

[Kaako]

For the people who are disappointed/shocked by this, well, prepare yourself, as there will be more games in the future that will not be native 4k and will use checkerboard instead. I think the question that needs to be asked here is would you rather have native 4k in Assassin's but lower visual fidelity or increased visual fidelity but that uses checkerboard to get almost native 4k quality. I think I would pick the latter, if visual fidelity is what matters most to you.

Yup.
Checkerboard with bells & whistles, all day! Especially for these mid-gen consoles.
The payoff in taking the time to implement proper checkerboard rendering is a lot bigger imo than chasing that native res for these machines.

 

[gamz]

I'm angry at the marketing of the XBX, phils annoying statements like "Pro is aiming for Xbox One S", and the buzzwords they are using to try and artificially create hype.

My irritation doesn't have anything to do with what the XBX actually puts out.

Artificially create hype? How do you live a daily life? What company doesn't want to create hype. I'm not understanding. Chill out and watch the video. It's beautiful.

 

[mysteriousmage09]

You know what I find quite funny on here is most people who actually intend to buy this console are saying, this is fine, we knew this all along. I know I and others said that we'd prefer 4K checkerboard for higher settings.

Then you get the people who clearly have no intention of buying this are like LOLOLOL TRUE 4Kinda.

Everyone knew since this thing was announced that it was only 1st party games which would be running at 4K.

Its also a bloody alpha build.

Lmao, give me a fucking break. The goalposts for this system have been moved so much they are now in another stadium.

 

[jroc74]

What the poster is trying to say is that Phil is bullshitting when Phil claimed XboneX did not use similair techniques as Pro to reach 4K and thereby where not competing.
When in actuallity they very muchly use the same ways.

The checkerboarding is no problem in itself, it is a great solution on all fronts.

This and the the other things that Phil said comparing the 2 consoles is exactly the point some are trying to make.

And...if checkerboarding can be used for some games for devs to do other things, it should be a good thing.

Lmao, give me a fucking break. The goalposts for this system have been moved so much they are now in another stadium.

.

The other day it was not every game, now its only first party games....

Soon it will be 1st party games that [insert goalpoat here]

 

[Pathfinder]

Years from now, we're all going to look back and laugh at how much of a big deal we made about checkerboarding.

 

[gamz]

What the poster is trying to say is that Phil is bullshitting when Phil claimed XboneX did not use similair techniques as Pro to reach 4K and thereby where not competing.
When in actuallity they very muchly use the same ways.

The checkerboarding is no problem in itself, it is a great solution on all fronts.

Again, Phil also said it's up to the devs of how to use the X's power. Funny how everyone bypasses that. Phil can't control what the Dev sees what's best for their games. If anything we should be happy it's up to the devs.

 

[family_guy]

I feel like this is bait lol but yes, they've stated that the type of rendering will include checkboard, dynamic and native depending on the developer. Only their internal titles will absolutely be native.

Might be hard if Halo 6 is 60fps.

 

[Grim Patron]

What happened to 4K 60FPS no compromises

 

[EvB]

You know what? I need a witness or better yet The Witness!


it went from 900P on PS4 to having a native 4K option on PS4 Pro

Actually, it went from 900p to 1080p at 60fps on regular PS4 when he patched it with a different AA solution.

Then you could go to 4k if you halved the framerate.

 

[gamz]

What happened to 4K 60FPS no compromises

Don't know ask the developer of the game?

 

[Kaako]

Lmao, give me a fucking break. The goalposts for this system have been moved so much they are now in another stadium.

Try another planet. It's been a fun ride though haha.

 

[OdysseusVA]

Mostly HD remasters from last gen and smaller indie titles

I forgot they don't count :^)

Lmao, give me a fucking break. The goalposts for this system have been moved so much they are now in another stadium.

Leeh will continue moving the goalposts until people tire of chasing it.

 

[spannicus]

Again, Phil also said it's up to the devs of how to use the X's power. Funny how everyone bypasses that. Phil can't control what the Dev sees what's best for their games. If anything we should be happy it's up to the devs.

You can state that until you are blue in the face. Hundreds of more posts will still question it.
Makes no sense to me. If you want the console and have the money, enjoy it. Those that dont should continue to enjoy what they enjoy. Pages upon pages and thread upon thread is just keeping this nonsense going. buy a great graphics card and build a pc if you want real 4k for all your titles. Even then, not all titles will allow 4k at enjoyable framerates, depending on card you choose.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Artificially create hype? How do you live a daily life? What company doesn't want to create hype. I'm not understanding. Chill out and watch the video. It's beautiful.

If they are being misleading and cringy with their buzzwords, of course i'm going to be irritated when they keep on doing it.

That's pretty much it.

 

[onQ123]

Mostly HD remasters from last gen and smaller indie titles

The person I was replying to said

Not a single game on Pro made a jump this big in resolution from the base console.

 

[AngelOFDeath]

So you are saying Phil is lying when he says it's up to the devs how to use the power? I mean have you watched the video? Game looks and plays amazing and it's in Alpha. Enjoy.

I am not saying hes lying at all, I am talking bout The Verge interview: “When I think about techniques to somehow manufacture a 4K screen like what some other consoles try to do, this is different than that.”

^ that is what I am saying is unfortunate wording, because we are seeing it, just 1 example thus far, HAPPENING here on their own console as well. There is again NOTHING wrong with that, the game does look great, and it is indeed impressive. This is all alpha and anything and everything could change, but for the time being it is what it is

 

[ethomaz]

True 4k.

lol

 

[d9b]

Phil's Magic Emporium of Alternative Facts.

 

[EvB]

The person I was replying to said

Fair point.

 

[Backfoggen]

Nice that the first DF XBX analysis features a game that doesn't have the Full Best Pixels Native 4K Not Bad Like What The PS4 Pro Does presentation.

 

[nextgeneration]

Yup.
Checkerboard with bells & whistles, all day! Especially for these mid-gen consoles.
The payoff in taking the time to implement proper checkerboard rendering is a lot bigger imo than chasing that native res for these machines.

Yup, exactly. As a console gamer, you can't have it both ways here with these current consoles. Sacrifices will always need to be made to get native 4K and the developer here has chosen the best compromise, I think - graphics with all the bells and whistles and as a compromise (and a good one, at that), checkerboard implementation that looks pretty close to native 4K. Once the true next generation comes along, we'll see far more native 4k games.

If you want it both ways, well, that's what the PC is for. As consoles, there will always be sacrifices that need to be made here and there. That's been the case since the dawn of time.

 

[Symbiotx]

Thank god we finally have more info. I was tired of the defenders denying that it will use checkerboarding just like the pro.

 

[gamz]

If they are being misleading and cringy with their buzzwords, of course i'm going to be irritated when they keep on doing it.

That's pretty much it.

Okay, save yourself the energy and don't buy the X. Problem solved.

And I charge 50 an hour for counseling.

 

[spannicus]

Game will look beautiful running on my x.

Yup

 

[Listonosh]

I expected checkerboard but it really makes Phil's whole "true 4k" speech look bad.

For the record, I think checkerboard 4k looks great on my PS4 pro but Microsoft needs to clear their damn messaging up. It seems like every year, shortly after their conference we find out that they just straight up lied about one thing or another.

Pretty much this. I remember constantly reading that "checkerboard rendering is a joke on PS4 Pro, wait until 'Scorpio' does true native 4K" After seeing checkerboard rendering myself on the Pro, it was clear those people don't really know what they're talking about. However, it doesn't excuse Microsoft from their misleading messaging about true native 4K gaming

 

[Raide]

Nice that the first DF XBX analysis features a game that doesn't have the Full Best Pixels Native 4K Not Bad Like What The PS4 Pro Does presentation.

Yeah, always great to see unfinished hardware and software put to the test. Bodes well for the subsequent retail launch and updated SDK.

 

[spannicus]

Who are the people that said checkboard is a joke? Looks great on the pro to me. People really get out of hand with nonsense and marketing talk.

 

[Tripolygon]

What an argument on another thread has to do with what's being discussed on this thread? This thread is about people telling what people say it's a lie.

Which 900p ps4 game reached 2160c on Pro?

You are being ridiculous. This thread ties into the other thread because they are about "true 4K" and what Phil Spencer said. There has been no disupute that Xbox OX is more powerful than PS4 Pro, there has also been no dispute that Xbox OX would have better effects and high settings than PS4 Pro because 4TF < 6TF. This conversation has been about Xbox marketing team's insistent on marketing Xbox OX as the first true 4K system. With Phil going as far as saying PS4 Pro is a competitor to Xbox One S. This argument has never been about Xbox OX running games at higher settings.

You've been called out about your second statement many times but you keep insisting on using it. Horizon Zero Dawn goes from 1080p on OG PS4 to 2160p checkerboard on Pro.

 

[jroc74]

Again, Phil also said it's up to the devs of how to use the X's power. Funny how everyone bypasses that. Phil can't control what the Dev sees what's best for their games. If anything we should be happy it's up to the devs.

Becasue thats not all he said.....

That seems to get bypassed too.....

 

[RebornYeti]

All I know is that regardless if it's checkerboard or true 4K, I won't be able to experience it lol.

At least the X will make games look better on 1080p sets though!

 

[Nikana]

I feel like this is bait lol but yes, they've stated that the type of rendering will include checkboard, dynamic and native depending on the developer. Only their internal titles will absolutely be native.

I'm genuinely just curious. Not trying to push an agenda or anything. I was just confused by their E3 presentation a bit.

 

[mario_O]

"True 4K"

 

[Inuhanyou]

Okay, save yourself the energy and don't buy the X. Problem solved.

And I charge 50 an hour for counseling.

I don't have to buy the console to be annoyed at comments made do i? And i already have a shrink >

 

[demigod]

True 4k.

lol

How dare you mock Phil Spencer, the lord and saviour.