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[Digital Foundry] New Scorpio Spec Leak: ESRAM Gone, GPU Features Revealed

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M

Metfanant

Member
nynt9 said:
Interesting. Given that the Scorpio is less than we expected, MS might not be able to do VR after all. It's not strong enough to run a Rift on its own, and I doubt MS will invest in an external processing box like Sony did for PSVR.
Click to expand...
Scorpio isn't less than what we expected...It's just less than people's wild imaginations wanted to believe...Just like all the secret sauce, extra GPU, misterxmedia nonsense so many Xbox fans wanted to believe was going to be unlocked by some firmware update to the original Xbone...

otakukidd said:
Happened today

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=228989509
Click to expand...

Lol...I'd love to have this dev explain exactly how the Pro is "half assed" and how a just as marginally more powerful console releasing a year later and potentially still using the same CPU architecture is not half assed...

Remind me when a legit, confirmed developer goes on record as saying the Pro is half assed, and Scorpio will be a generational improvement
 
T

thuway

Member
It isn't out of the realm possibility for the Scorpio to use a Jaguar CPU. It would help bring the price closer to $399 and still stay true to the narrative that it's more powerful than PS4 Pro. Technology moves far too fast for it to be a good decision to release a ultra premium console when it will be usurped in two or three years.

The one thing I'm still a little confused on is why people are acting like the difference between PS4 Pro and Scorpio is something gargantuan and unheard of. It is very similar to the current difference between Xbox One and PS4 - except in reverse.
 
L

LukasTaves

Member
Omnistalgic said:
Again, we have devs here on GAF (I'm assuming vetted) that are saying Pro is half-assed and Scorpio isn't. True 4K PR and Phil talking about we're going to be able to do stuff without the asterisks poking jabs at Pro etc...

These specs say it's not some huge gigantic jump over Pro, and some people are disappointed by that. I know I am. You can feel its unreasonable if you want, but I don't.

Vegeta is stronger during the Sayian Saga.
Click to expand...

The specs are the same they said at the reveal.

People on this very board have been saying that those specs were not enough to take a game running in 1080p on xbone to 4k native on scorpio, and that document has ms saying that not only it does with power to spare, that it can make 900p games on xbone 4k native on Scorpio too, and somehow it's a disappointment?
 
C

c0de

Member
cakely said:
Let's not pretend that "people on GAF" weren't tripping over themselves to downplay the power difference between the PS4 and the XBO.
Click to expand...

Let's not pretend people on GAF weren't overselling the difference, making it seem bigger than it actually was and is.
 
O

Omnistalgic

Member
p2535748 said:
Posts from (assumed) devs on forums hardly count as marketing, and I'm not even sure these people are associated with MS at all. And I can't find the thing with Phil taking a shot at the Pro. Can you help?

I found this Gamespot Interview. From which I found:



But a google search for "Phil Spencer asterisk" is pretty much empty. Again, I might be wrong, I just haven't seen this stuff.
Click to expand...
My bad, looks like it was Albert Penello. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...ect-scorpio-ps4-pro-marketing-and-xbox-tweets

To go back to your original point about salting the competition or trying to be aggressive against them. I think there are a lot of caveats they're giving customers right now around 4K. They're talking about checkerboard rendering and up-scaling and things like that. There are just a lot of asterisks in their marketing around 4K, which is interesting because when we thought about what spec we wanted for Scorpio, we were very clear we wanted developers to take their Xbox One engines and render them in native, true 4K. That was why we picked the number, that's why we have the memory bandwidth we have, that's why we have the teraflops we have, because it's what we heard from game developers was required to achieve native 4K.

Now, similarly to what Sony said, that doesn't mean I'm going to require developers to do this. They're going to be able to decide to take that six teraflops of power and do what they think is best for their game. But I know that 4.2 teraflops is not enough to do true 4K. So, I feel like our product aspired a little bit higher, and we will have fewer asterisks around the 4K experiences we deliver on our box.
Click to expand...
 
K

Kaako

Felium Defensor
Toki767 said:
Depending on what his reasoning is, he isn't totally wrong though.

Scorpio architecture is completely different from the Xbox One architecture.

PS4 Pro architecture is the same as the PS4 architecture.

From that standpoint, I could see how someone would think Scorpio was a next gen console. Even if it isn't really.
Click to expand...
Sure, put a Zen in it and I'd absolutely label this as MS's next gen console. In fact, that's why I keep saying nothing is set in stone just yet. E3 magic hat moment, all within the realm of possibilities.
 
A

AlucardGV

Banned
and yet i have this self proclaimed insider keep saying scorpio is zen-vega. he's also a fanboy so maybe he's tough for him to digest bad news
 
wapplew

wapplew

Member
Metfanant said:
Lol...I'd love to have this dev explain exactly how the Pro is "half assed" and how a just as marginally more powerful console releasing a year later and potentially still using the same CPU architecture is not half assed...
Click to expand...

Maybe it's not the same CPU core? It's just a DF speculation on half year old paper after all.
 
T

TechnicPuppet

Nothing! I said nothing!
Toki767 said:
Depending on what his reasoning is, he isn't totally wrong though.

Scorpio architecture is completely different from the Xbox One architecture.

PS4 Pro architecture is the same as the PS4 architecture.

From that standpoint, I could see how someone would think Scorpio was a next gen console. Even if it isn't really.
Click to expand...

That makes sense but I wouldn't expect PS5 architecture to be very different from PS4.
 
A

aygomyownroad

Member
I am going to wait on the official specs just now. Not all leaks are fake granted but going to wait.

Xbox One has been lagging power wise behind the ps4 all gen as we know. If the Scorpio adds the same power or even a little bit more than the pro then that's good news.

Personally hoping it was a new gen for Microsoft (like Xbox to 360 short span), but will wait to see.
 
C

c0de

Member
Thebeardofknowledge said:
😂😂😂😂😂😂

post is from a Microsoft dev
Click to expand...

He is not an ms dev. Still he's right, though, and basically what he's saying is that a generation now has a different meaning. People just have a hard time to understand what is actually quite simple.
 
O

Omnistalgic

Member
Metfanant said:
You've got that backwards...MS has not "cut back" anything...people's imaginations, hype, and fanboy desires run wild and they start creating crazy speculation...MS has been pretty clear about what Scorpio would offer from the get go...



Please point me in the direction of developers saying the Pro is "half assed"
Click to expand...

I thought you had stain when you post like this...So I took it as being vetted? lol...My bad I guess.

Dynablast said:
It's obvious that Sony and Microsoft are perusing different game plans. Andrew House said so when he remarked "they have their strategy, and we have ours." PS4 Pro has just enough power to take advantage of a 4K television set; everything else is an afterthought. On the other hand, Scorpio is what a next generation console would look like if we were starting afresh in 2017. Listen to the man above. Scorpio is "full blown next-gen". It also has support for features that are missing from the Xbox One (e.g. VR).

How long before Thomas Mahler is chastised or cautioned by team Xbox for using the term "next gen"? lol
Click to expand...
 
C

c0de

Member
Kaako said:
Ori dev commenting on PS4 Pro being half assed while Scorpio is actually the next gen Xbox. That's cute.
Click to expand...

Technically he is right. The pro is a ps4 technically with little architecture changes and it requires the hardware to run in different modes to have a pro and a vanilla mode.
 
D

Doctre81

Member
So unless the Scorpio cpu is clocked VERY high the switch potentially has a better cpu than all of the competition. That's crazy.
 
P

p2535748

Member
Omnistalgic said:
My bad, looks like it was Albert Penello. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...ect-scorpio-ps4-pro-marketing-and-xbox-tweets
Click to expand...

Fair enough, that's a bad look. Granted, he's saying "fewer asterisks", not "none", and he's specifically talking about "Xbox One engines", but given what we know, it's not a good move to try and pretend most third party stuff will be native 4k.

I would say that the first part of that quote is important too, though:

I will say, the most shocking thing about all of this is how Sony and us arrived at a similar strategy, even though the execution is different in nuanced ways. Certainly this is a pretty revolutionary idea. When we announced Project Scorpio at E3, to do this kind of mid-console upgrade, and Sony clearly had their plans, which were very similar. I just think that's interesting, for what it's worth. It's a pretty revolutionary idea to have two companies arrive at.
Click to expand...

That's pretty clearly saying that the Pro and the Scorpio are basically the same idea, just with slightly different approaches.

Still, you're right that this does a bad job of managing expectations.
 
wapplew

wapplew

Member
c0de said:
He is not an ms dev. Still he's right, though, and basically what he's saying is that a generation now has a different meaning. People just have a hard time to understand what is actually quite simple.
Click to expand...

Next generation is a marketing term.
So yes, I don't see the problem a dev say something is next gen just like Nvidia market their new card as next gen.
 
B

BRocknRolla

Member
Samurai G0SU said:
so because a confirmed dev made a game for the xbox one he isn't credible on power claims? alright. lol

yet ....

nvm lol

Love this thread!!
Click to expand...

The only issue I take with it being an MS dev is them calling the Pro "half-assed." Their claims about the power of a system either will be proven true or PR. We've had an MS person like Penello on here too claiming things that turned out to be nonsense, so time will tell.
 
M

Metfanant

Member
wapplew said:
Maybe it's not the same CPU core? It's just a DF speculation on half year old paper after all.
Click to expand...

Possible...But that doesn't make the Pro by extension "half assed." Sony wanted to get to market this year (for whatever internal reason that is)...AMD did not (and still doesn't as of this post) have a viable CPU architecture that Sony could have used in the Pro...

I don't see how using the best available CPU tech, as well as a handful of GPU features from beyond the current GPU family, and squeezing it in a box for $399 could possibly be considered half assed...

If you want to argue it could have had a UHD Blu-ray drive...Or that they should have waited a year and tried to go with a Zen CPU, that's fine...But certainly doesn't make the Pro half assed...

And any developer that came out and said that would cause me to question their agenda...
 
C

Cerium

Member
I haven't slept for about 24 hours now and I need to talk to a Sony fan to get some perspective on something. Can one of you console warriors send me a PM?
 
N

nynt9

Member
Metfanant said:
Scorpio isn't less than what we expected...It's just less than people's wild imaginations wanted to believe...Just like all the secret sauce, extra GPU, misterxmedia nonsense so many Xbox fans wanted to believe was going to be unlocked by some firmware update to the original Xbone...
Click to expand...

I guess I didn't pay enough attention to the Scorpio discussions to decipher fan propaganda from actual PR. But I still stand by my assertion that this doesn't seem to be a VR-feasible system without some external power? Unless they target low end headsets like the Gear VR and such?
 
O

Omnistalgic

Member
LukasTaves said:
The specs are the same they said at the reveal.

People on this very board have been saying that those specs were not enough to take a game running in 1080p on xbone to 4k native on scorpio, and that document has ms saying that not only it does with power to spare, that it can make 900p games on xbone 4k native on Scorpio too, and somehow it's a disappointment?
Click to expand...
Yeah, you may be right, this is most likely more fan conjecture than anything. Sometimes I forget Neogaf is a forum and just thought some people were speaking from a place of knowledge as insiders etc...
 
H

Head.spawn

Junior Member
cakely said:
Ok, that's fine by me. We definitely had both.
Click to expand...

Seemed like it was ridiculously slanted to one side of that more than the other. It feels like only last year when new console rumors started coming out did a lot of that stuff mellow out for the most part.

nynt9 said:
I guess I didn't pay enough attention to the Scorpio discussions to decipher fan propaganda from actual PR. But I still stand by my assertion that this doesn't seem to be a VR-feasible system without some external power? Unless they target low end headsets like the Gear VR and such?
Click to expand...

Is there anything PSVR's external processor does that couldn't be done on a regular console?
 
S

Shil Pencer

Member
nynt9 said:
I guess I didn't pay enough attention to the Scorpio discussions to decipher fan propaganda from actual PR. But I still stand by my assertion that this doesn't seem to be a VR-feasible system without some external power? Unless they target low end headsets like the Gear VR and such?
Click to expand...

The Scorpio blows the Original PS4 system with the addtional box away....how exactly could the Scorpio not handle the Rift?
 
Duxxy3

Duxxy3

Member
nynt9 said:
I guess I didn't pay enough attention to the Scorpio discussions to decipher fan propaganda from actual PR. But I still stand by my assertion that this doesn't seem to be a VR-feasible system without some external power? Unless they target low end headsets like the Gear VR and such?
Click to expand...

PS4 and PS4 Pro do VR...

Don't see why it's impossible.
 
K

Kaako

Felium Defensor
Metfanant said:
Possible...But that doesn't make the Pro by extension "half assed." Sony wanted to get to market this year (for whatever internal reason that is)...AMD did not (and still doesn't as of this post) have a viable CPU architecture that Sony could have used in the Pro...

I don't see how using the best available CPU tech, as well as a handful of GPU features from beyond the current GPU family, and squeezing it in a box for $399 could possibly be considered half assed...

If you want to argue it could have had a UHD Blu-ray drive...Or that they should have waited a year and tried to go with a Zen CPU, that's fine...But certainly doesn't make the Pro half assed...

And any developer that came out and said that would cause me to question their agenda...
Click to expand...
Exactly this.
 
O

Omnistalgic

Member
p2535748 said:
Fair enough, that's a bad look. Granted, he's saying "fewer asterisks", not "none", and he's specifically talking about "Xbox One engines", but given what we know, it's not a good move to try and pretend most third party stuff will be native 4k.

I would say that the first part of that quote is important too, though:



That's pretty clearly saying that the Pro and the Scorpio are basically the same idea, just with slightly different approaches.

Still, you're right that this does a bad job of managing expectations.
Click to expand...
True true, it was a slight jab, but mostly a combination of things, fans on here hyping everything to oblivion I would say is the meat & potatoes of why threads like this get outta hand lol.
 
N

Neuromancer

Member
Munki said:
Actually, I noticed that the details have changed slightly. Specifically the little snippet mentioning VR has been removed.

project-scorpio-features.jpg
Click to expand...
If this thing doesn't do VR, I can't say I'd be interested in it.

I wonder if they were working on a deal with Oculus that's since fallen through.
 
C

Chris1

Member
Metfanant said:
Remind me when a legit, confirmed developer goes on record as saying the Pro is half assed, and Scorpio will be a generational improvement
Click to expand...
His comments aside (which I think attacking him for is silly when this is old news and could have changed).. So a developer to one of the best games this gen isn't a "legit, confirmed developer"?

Some weird standards to be a "legit" developer you have there
 
K

kinggroin

Banned
Spades said:
So, wait, people on GAF are saying the power difference is similar to PS4 to Xbox One, so it's inconsequential? It felt like when those consoles launched, GAF went out of its way to tell me how much better the PS4 was and how that extra power made all the difference.

Why is it different now?
Click to expand...

Because it lands 1 year later.
 
Proelite

Proelite

Member
Doctre81 said:
So unless the Scorpio cpu is clocked VERY high the switch potentially has a better cpu than all of the competition. That's crazy.
Click to expand...

Individually the switch cores might be better, but don't forget that current and next gen consoles have 2x the amount of cores.
 
N

nynt9

Member
Duxxy3 said:
PS4 and PS4 Pro do VR...

Don't see why it's impossible.
Click to expand...

1. PS4 has a breakout box to handle frame interpolation
2. PS4 has its own headset with a lower resolution than the Rift (which is the lowest spec high end headset MS can target)

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying it requires extra processing power. I'm speculating as to whether the power we know is enough to handle that.
 
M

Mung

Member
Spades said:
So, wait, people on GAF are saying the power difference is similar to PS4 to Xbox One, so it's inconsequential? It felt like when those consoles launched, GAF went out of its way to tell me how much better the PS4 was and how that extra power made all the difference.

Why is it different now?
Click to expand...

Ps4 was cheaper than the xbone and came out at the same time.
 
C

CrimsonEclipse

Member
nynt9 said:
Interesting. Given that the Scorpio is less than we expected, MS might not be able to do VR after all. It's not strong enough to run a Rift on its own, and I doubt MS will invest in an external processing box like Sony did for PSVR.
Click to expand...

And what were we expecting exactly besides wild speculation floating through the air? I only expected what we have been told so far, nothing else.

Some of you are acting as if all the specs were confirmed when it was announced and now MS is "downgrading" the hardware which there is nothing to use as evidence to backup. As far as I can see, this old white paper barely introduces any new information...it doesn't provide anything substantial over what MS has already stated what's going to be in the box.
 
S

sneas78

Banned
I have to laugh at so many responses here. Good lord. The crap ms got for their under power console.. but now.. down playing .. I don't even own an Xbox .. not appealing to me .. but good lord.
 
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