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[Triplicates]

It was beginning to sound like a very expensive proposition. I'm not surprised if they cut back to hit a better price point.

 

[VincentMatts]

To summarise. No matter what CPU it ends up with, it's still gonna be at least a whole PS4 again more powerful than the PS4 Pro. That's significant, no matter which way you cut it.

Yes the hardware will be great no matter what. Now they just need to work on their first party lineup. Great HW with no games isnt much better than what they have now. Im anxious for Halo6, cuphead....hopefully crackdown is good?

 

[BRocknRolla]

I guess I'm just saying that if there was going to be a freakout over the "true 4K" thing it should have been then, not now, because nothing's changed.

Agreed. I guess all I can say is that things were wholly vague then and people could fill in the space with hope or whatever else they wanted to. Now we've got some numbers and that makes it harder to be purely rosy if you had set your expectations too high.

 

[BigEmil]

It was beginning to sound like a very expensive proposition. I'm not surprised if they cut back to hit a better price point.

As time goes by hardware gets cheaper so I'm sure they can get better deals on this stuff if they was to compared to 2016

 

[Head.spawn]

Why did Digital Foundry sit on a leaked doc with basically no new information they verified from 7 months ago, only to make a new video today... with no new information?

 

[MisterXDTV]

To summarise. No matter what CPU it ends up with, it's still gonna be at least a whole PS4 again more powerful than the PS4 Pro. That's significant, no matter which way you cut it.

How is that significant? It comes out a FULL year later, it's SUPPOSED to be better than PS4 Pro. And we don't know the price of this thing yet

 

[Omnistalgic]

That's the only direct quote I see in that article. Nowhere does he mention the PS4 Pro (note that what I initially responded to said the marketing claimed "a magnitude better than what you are getting from the Pro"). And yes, they keep using "true 4k" because, as quoted later:



How is any of this out of line with what we're seeing in this document?

Again, we have devs here on GAF (I'm assuming vetted) that are saying Pro is half-assed and Scorpio isn't. True 4K PR and Phil talking about we're going to be able to do stuff without the asterisks poking jabs at Pro etc...

These specs say it's not some huge gigantic jump over Pro, and some people are disappointed by that. I know I am. You can feel its unreasonable if you want, but I don't.

I thought Goku was weaker than Vegeta, no?

Vegeta is stronger during the Sayian Saga.

 

[p2535748]

brah you look that up. The presentation was basically a video talking about true 4K and pixels, and PR from MS tweeted a bunch of stuff since then. Do research b4 you think people are making stuff up.

Let me be clear about what I was referring to:

MS also made it pretty clear in the marketing that Scorpio is a true 4K machine and it will be a magnitude better than what you were getting from Pro. GAF is crazy, but it ain't that crazy.

Where did the marketing claim the bolded? Because, again, I don't think they've done much marketing since the reveal, and the Pro wasn't even announced then.

And FWIW, I may have missed it. I did a quick google search and couldn't find it, but it may be out there.

 

[hanspampel]

Needing to interpolate your animation has no bearing on what CPU you need. You can have a 100 core CPU and you may still want to do optimizations like this to push further. Having a Zen CPU or not doesn't stop devs from pushing more and using things like interpolate techniques

Jesus where are all this smart new juniors coming from?
This is also totally correct and a reasonable thought behind this "tech paper leak"

Halo 5 is doing it and not because the cpu is to weak, but the graphics are not able to do all together

 

[ethomaz]

Why did Digital Foundry sit on a leaked doc with basically no new information from 7 months ago, only to make a new video today... with no new information?

The info on the doc was never leaked before... there are a lot of info inside it.

- No eSRAM
- Bigger cache
- Framerate interpolation due limitations in CPU power
- Checkerboard use
- Break the 32MB buffer limit

There is new info in the article.

 

[VincentMatts]

Sure, but Eurogamer/DF really doesn't come out with bunk rumours. There's a lot still up in the air in terms of final specs, but I have zero doubt that the document in question is legit.

Yes the document is probably 'legit' but theyre still speculating on the actual hardware. Nowhere in the documents does it actually mention any of the hardware other than some specs and development methods.

 

[otakukidd]

So, wait, people on GAF are saying the power difference is similar to PS4 to Xbox One, so it's inconsequential? It felt like when those consoles launched, GAF went out of its way to tell me how much better the PS4 was and how that extra power made all the difference.

Why is it different now?

Cause over 60 million people can already play those games at 0 cost.

 

[Rob_27]

Why are you confused? This is all correct. Seems highly unlikely Scorpio will use the same old xb1 jaguar cores. But it's also possible, it will not be pure zen cores.

Just get carried away with all the posts. I dont believe they would be silly enough to use jaguar. But probably something with a bit more legs.

 

[Stormforger]

Wow... My eyes are bleeding from reading all of these comments! =)

The way I look at it - The Scorpio will obviously be somewhat better than the PS4 Pro, based on the quoted TF numbers of both systems.

So, just as long as Microsoft can leverage the extra power and make games look better at 1080p and 4K, great.

But we won't know until we see the software actually on the hardware. Devs and insiders have all said the Scorpio looks good.

I trust that the Scorpio will be a pretty good upgrade from the Xbox One. If it is, I will buy it.

If the PS4 Pro can show better upgrades for games in the future, I will buy it... (Right now, I just don't see the reason to upgrade my PS4.)

 

[Delusibeta]

And this is what DF said why don't you include it since it's straight from DF

Watch the video, that's where they said that they expect "the same Jaguar cores".

 

[Erimriv]

So it will use the same cpu than Ps4 Pro? And at the same speed or overclocked? how much can they squeeze the juice out of that cpu in terms of mhz?

 

[Head.spawn]

The info on the doc was never leaked before... there are a lot of info inside it.

Maybe I misheard (I was listening on my cell), but I thought he said he received the leak and verified it, in June.

 

[Metfanant]

It was beginning to sound like a very expensive proposition. I'm not surprised if they cut back to hit a better price point.

You've got that backwards...MS has not "cut back" anything...people's imaginations, hype, and fanboy desires run wild and they start creating crazy speculation...MS has been pretty clear about what Scorpio would offer from the get go...

Again, we have devs here on GAF (I'm assuming vetted) that are saying Pro is half-assed and Scorpio isn't. True 4K PR and Phil talking about we're going to be able to do stuff without the asterisks poking jabs at Pro etc...

These specs say it's not some huge gigantic jump over Pro, and some people are disappointed by that. I know I am. You can feel its unreasonable if you want, but I don't.

Please point me in the direction of developers saying the Pro is "half assed"

 

[VincentMatts]

Watch the video, that's where they said that they expect "the same Jaguar cores".

Again, they 'expect' meaning they're speculating. How difficult is this to understand? They can very well be right in the end but until its official, its speculation.

 

[cakely]

So, wait, people on GAF are saying the power difference is similar to PS4 to Xbox One, so it's inconsequential? It felt like when those consoles launched, GAF went out of its way to tell me how much better the PS4 was and how that extra power made all the difference.

Why is it different now?

Let's not pretend that "people on GAF" weren't tripping over themselves to downplay the power difference between the PS4 and the XBO.

 

[Kaako]

Again, we have devs here on GAF (I'm assuming vetted) that are saying Pro is half-assed and Scorpio isn't. True 4K PR and Phil talking about we're going to be able to do stuff without the asterisks poking jabs at Pro etc...

These specs say it's not some huge gigantic jump over Pro, and some people are disappointed by that. I know I am. You can feel its unreasonable if you want, but I don't.

Vegeta is stronger during the Sayian Saga.

Which dumbass dev said this? Cause that's hilarious.

 

[Space_nut]

Watch the video, that's where they said that they expect "the same Jaguar cores".

Speculate

This is what is factually found in docs

The whitepaper we've seen - dated to just after Scorpio's E3 reveal - only confirms no ESRAM, boosted L2 cache and support for memory compression technology. Beyond that, all we have to go on is Microsoft's stated 320GB/s bandwidth, eight CPU cores - plus a motherboard rendering strongly suggesting 12GB of GDDR5 memory. How the final spec will shape up remains to be seen

 

[Samurai G0SU]

Maybe I misheard (I was listening on my cell), but I thought he said he received the leak and verified it, in June.

I believe he said he received it weeks ago but the document was available since july 2016. but he took weeks to make a video and also used a tweet that came out within the last 24 hours in his video too.

just leave it as interesting timing, maybe purposeful.

 

[blastprocessor]

Some posters just saying 6tf missing things like much higher memory bandwidth, UHD drive (gotta be a cert given it's on the S) more memory and possibly better CPU.

 

[Toki767]

So, wait, people on GAF are saying the power difference is similar to PS4 to Xbox One, so it's inconsequential? It felt like when those consoles launched, GAF went out of its way to tell me how much better the PS4 was and how that extra power made all the difference.

Why is it different now?

I still remember the Xbox One argument being diminishing returns, which was silly at the time.

 

[daveo42]

Why did Digital Foundry sit on a leaked doc with basically no new information they verified from 7 months ago, only to make a new video today... with no new information?

The white paper only just leaked and is mostly new because very little info on the system had been confirmed past what was said at E3.

 

[ethomaz]

Maybe I misheard (I was listening on my cell), but I thought he said he received the leak and verified it, in June.

The whitepaper is dated from July 2016 and it was published on private MS Dev docs... the wastepaper leak happened today by Eurogamer because I guess some partner dev sent it weeks ago to EG.

The whitepaper content is new... this is the first leak about it.

 

[Head.spawn]

I believe he said he received it weeks ago but the document was available since july 2016. but he took weeks to make a video and also used a tweet that came out within the last 24 hours in his video too.

just leave it as interesting timing, maybe purposeful.

Gotcha. My bad, I'll rewatch later on my computer.

 

[nynt9]

Actually, I noticed that the details have changed slightly. Specifically the little snippet mentioning VR has been removed.

Interesting. Given that the Scorpio is less than we expected, MS might not be able to do VR after all. It's not strong enough to run a Rift on its own, and I doubt MS will invest in an external processing box like Sony did for PSVR.

 

[otakukidd]

Which dumbass dev said this? Cause that's hilarious.

Happened today

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=228989509

 

[p2535748]

Again, we have devs here on GAF (I'm assuming vetted) that are saying Pro is half-assed and Scorpio isn't. True 4K PR and Phil talking about we're going to be able to do stuff without the asterisks poking jabs at Pro etc....

Posts from (assumed) devs on forums hardly count as marketing, and I'm not even sure these people are associated with MS at all. And I can't find the thing with Phil taking a shot at the Pro. Can you help?

I found this Gamespot Interview. From which I found:

Spencer: It didn't affect our plan at all. About two and a half years ago we started to look at a hardware refresh that we might want to do, which in the end led to the Xbox One S and Scorpio in terms of designs. We'd looked at doing something that was higher performance this year, and I'd say the [PS4] Pro is about what we thought--with the GPU, CPU, memory that was here this year--that you could go do, and we decided that we wanted to do something different. So we looked at Scorpio and 4K and what I thought was a bigger step in terms of performance. It was something that we wanted to focus on.

But a google search for "Phil Spencer asterisk" is pretty much empty. Again, I might be wrong, I just haven't seen this stuff.

 

[get2sammyb]

I still remember the Xbox One argument being diminishing returns, which was silly at the time.

To be fair, you need to be pretty hardcore to see the difference between 900p and 1080p, and it's going to be even more difficult to see a difference between PS4 Pro's checkerboard 4K and Scorpio's native 4K.

 

[daveo42]

Speculate

This is what is factually found in docs

You seem awfully invested in the shaky Zen theory man.

 

[ResoRai]

Interesting. Given that the Scorpio is less than we expected, MS might not be able to do VR after all. It's not strong enough to run a Rift on its own, and I doubt MS will invest in an external processing box like Sony did for PSVR.

?

 

[cakely]

Which dumbass dev said this? Cause that's hilarious.

Just today ...

All consoles now are x86 PCs and the architecture will remain the same, that's why Sony was able to quickly iterate on the PS4 and make a beefier version of it.

Scorpio is a next-gen machine with the added benefit that all your old games will still be compatible. From this point on, similar to PCs, you'll not lose your library when you buy a next-gen system. I guess since NeoGAF is confsued, Microsoft will need to do a little work to make it clear to everyone that Scorpio isn't just a half-assed upgrade (which the PS4 Pro kinda is...), but a full blown next-gen machine that's just backwards-compatible to your current library.

Also more use of the "beefier" adjective.

 

[Samurai G0SU]

Happened today

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=228989509

I said damn! Can't wait for Ori two though

So with the current games we are playing with 1.2 TFs in the Xbox One.
Now we will have 6TF of GPU power and higher memory bandwidth! GET HYPE YALL.

 

[Shil Pencer]

Interesting. Given that the Scorpio is less than we expected, MS might not be able to do VR after all. It's not strong enough to run a Rift on its own, and I doubt MS will invest in an external processing box like Sony did for PSVR.

lol what?

 

[Toki767]

To be fair, you need to be pretty hardcore to see the difference between 900p and 1080p, and it's going to be even more difficult to see a difference between PS4 Pro's checkerboard and Scorpio's native.

That was basically my point. If they used the diminishing returns argument for 900p vs 1080p, it's going to be even less noticeable with the PS4 Pro vs Scorpio.

Happened today

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=228989509

Not sure I'd put that much stock into what 1 developer who makes games for Microsoft says.

Loved Ori though.

 

[dcx4610]

PC wins again. Join us and prosper.

 

[Primethius]

Happened today

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=228989509

This is an interesting post I hadn't seen because it would suggest a fairly big bump in Scorpio's CPU and likewise, some sort of FPS bump as a result of that.

Because otherwise, it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me.

 

[CrispyBoar]

The savior is dead. Switch won't be so behind in power after all.

Everyone who expected Sony or Microsoft to take the loss leading model after what had happened with Original Xbox, Xbox 360 & PS3 were living in dreamland.

 

[Space_nut]

You seem awfully invested in the shaky Vega theory man.

No find it funny a speculation with no info on specs at all suddenly becomes proof of what specs it has

The whole leaked document is vague in terms, from July 2016, and nothing about CPU specifications found. All there is are optimization techniques and things show in the trailer

Let's wait for an actual leaked doc on Scorpio specs Before you go on a rampage

 

[ViciousDS]

To be fair, you need to be pretty hardcore to see the difference between 900p and 1080p, and it's going to be even more difficult to see a difference between PS4 Pro's checkerboard 4K and Scorpio's native 4K.

Vaseline filter vs a clear image.....its really easy to tell the difference.

Even when the xbox one first launched you could tell Ryse wasn't in 1080p.

Once you get above 1080p with certain techniques and a good scaling chip in your TV as well as console checkerboard......yes, its hard at that point.


But 900p vs 1080p? It's pretty easy to notice

 

[LukasTaves]

that is weird

Not so much. Ms has always taken a cautious approach to VR, and with every other one under the sun being a failure they are most likely not in a rush. They will likely give developers the windows holographic platform on scorpio too, and be done with it.

 

[BRocknRolla]

Happened today

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=228989509

This person is actually a dev? Are they a MS exclusive dev?

Otherwise I'm not sure 1) How they'd know Scorpio is a "new gen" and isn't "half-assed" and 2) Why they'd strike a tone like that when talking about one of the platforms they could be making games for.

Not sure I'd put that much stock into what 1 developer who makes games for Microsoft says.

Loved Ori though.

Ha, apparently they are an MS dev.

 

[hanspampel]

The info on the doc was never leaked before... there are a lot of info inside it.

- No eSRAM
- Bigger cache
- Framerate interpolation due limitations in CPU power
- Checkerboard use
- Break the 32MB buffer limit

There is new info in the article.

animation framerate interpolation is not used due to cpu limitations.
It's gpu and bandwith limitation.

Halo 5 is using it and has a 1.75ghz jaguar core with 1.3tflops gpu.
So way more cpu power per gpu power than ps4

 

[Kaako]

Happened today

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=228989509

Ori dev commenting on PS4 Pro being half assed while Scorpio is actually the next gen Xbox. That's cute.

 

[Jumeira]

Posts from (assumed) devs on forums hardly count as marketing, and I'm not even sure these people are associated with MS at all. And I can't find the thing with Phil taking a shot at the Pro. Can you help?

I found this Gamespot Interview. From which I found:



But a google search for "Phil Spencer asterisk" is pretty much empty. Again, I might be wrong, I just haven't seen this stuff.

Yeah, he said something similar on GiantBomb, they could've gone Pro, but felt it wasn't enough. These specs reported seem like they're in conflict with Phil's idea of 'No a half step' and going beyond Pro specs. Like I said, e3 will be exciting.

Ori dev commenting on PS4 Pro being half assed while Scorpio is actually the next gen Xbox. That's cute.

What's wrong with that assesment? It's the consensus with gamers regarding PS4Pro, and he has better access to information then posters here regarding Scorpio.

 

[hwalker84]

Can someone summarize in DBZ level power please ? ( original DB/z plz, not GT/Super crap )

Cell Saga:

Switch is docked mode is Krillin
Switch is portable mode is Tien
Xbox One S is Piccolo
PS4 is Vegeta
PS4 Pro is Goku
Scorpio is SSJ2 Gohan

 

[Toki767]

This person is actually a dev? Are they a MS exclusive dev?

Otherwise I'm not sure 1) How they'd know Scorpio is a "new gen" and isn't "half-assed" and 2) Why they'd strike a tone like that when talking about one of the platforms they could be making games for.

Depending on what his reasoning is, he isn't totally wrong though.

Scorpio architecture is completely different from the Xbox One architecture.

PS4 Pro architecture is the same as the PS4 architecture.

From that standpoint, I could see how someone would think Scorpio was a next gen console. Even if it isn't really.