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[DBT85]

The path of least resistance, PS4.

Pirates don't give a damn. They're scumbag pirates.

The people that do the hacking don't do it for piracy.

Pirates do it for piracy, but they aren;t the guys that get elbows deep in the machine to get it to do things it wasn't designed for.

MS is making a box that is begging to be cracked just so that people can do what the fuck they want with it and not check in every 24 hours.

 

[6.8]

But the Publishers could...

This gen is so damned confusing/irritating

And they can do that on every platform, so PS4 is at level playing field here (well other than Xbone). They never said they were going to go out of their way to block DRM from happening either, but they just don't have a baked in solution, which is good enough for me, because it puts it at the same spot as Wii U and PC for it.

Sony is absolutely taking a 100% firm stand against this.

No they are not. They're taking the open market stand on this. If anything it's 100% neutral. But, that's also the best option we have.

 

[squidyj]

Reading this thread, I am preplexed.

Please people. Stop it. Microsoft and Sony are both multi billion dollar corps who mainly care about profits and not getting sued. Don't kid yourself.

I don't know how much truth there is to any of this, but it's not hard to believe that Sony could have had a similar stance to Microsoft before this outcry started, and have changed it in, a PR Stunt. The no-DRM PS4campaign was most def. taking advantage of the situation.
Just like Microsoft gave into pressure and eased up on their policy.
You are too much in love with a company if you don't believe companies will try to change their tune behind the scene to say what the consumers want to hear.

------------------

It's being too black and white, and people are being too hard on Microsoft. It's over exaggerated and overthought, and the census here makes it seem like they are evil people.


It's great that Sony has abandoned a lot of their PS3-Early days arrogance and are more in touch with the gaming world now, but I don't believe the PS4 story is this perfect thing, it's being made out to be, just like the Xbox One story is not this disaster.

yo. they're microsoft, they ARE evil people. antitrust all up in this bitch.

and to be clear I'm not just talking about their gaming division.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

man, people spinning this is hilarious.

 

[Durante]

It's pretty clear this is how things break down:

- Xbox with perhaps perhaps EA+Ubi worked to develop an always online console
- The goal was to end used games, leverage Xbox Live as the killer feature to make it work
- Sony was less advanced in their DRM plans, or never had them
- Sony never planned to go all-online
- Sony saw the opportunity to shank Microsoft in public and went for it
- Third parties are now freaking the fuck out and probably lying about their respect for the used game market, since it directly contradicts YEARS of comments from all of them
- Publishers are still desperate to stop used sales and consider it a priority
- They will do whatever they can to stymie used sales but Sony have just screwed the pooch

Exactly. Sony decided that fucking (some) publishers over would be worth it for them overall. Regardless of the outcome, I love it. Watch suits squirm!

 

[Zemm]

Would love to know who their "source" is. It comes across like some really bitter Microsoft first party dev or something reading that first post.

 

[liquidtmd]

ONe question that totally seem to have been forgotten is piracy.

Is this "draconian" style of DRM that MS is imposing, the price we have to pay in order to keep piracy at bay?

What is neogaf stance on piracy?

If things progress as they are, I'd wager youre going to get far more attempts to hack the Ones DRM in the first year.

Unless all games are 'cloud dependent', I'd wager trying to enable these games offline mode will be the hacking communities number 1 target.

Slightly OT on this note: I know a fair bit about modding/this subject but can anyone give a simpleish reason why more companies didn't go for GameCube like proprietary discs, stopping people from walking into a supermarket and buying 25 blank DVD-Rs? I always thought that was a reasonably good anti piracy measure but then I don't know much about piracy on the GC

 

[Pranay]

- Not allowing online passes, even for third parties, since PS+ is now required for online play.
- $399 was a target price set many years ago
- Camera is not included, costs $59
- F2P online games/services won't require PS+
- Subscription based games/services won't require PS+

From Giantbomb interview

 

[Plinko]

People need to go read the Yoshida thread with CVG--this only applies to online. All single-player stuff cannot be blocked for any reason.

 

[DBT85]

Actually, the best bit about the article is

We have contacted Sony for commentt

Why? They already told everyone half a dozen times. If they say "no the source is a lair" are Edge suddenly going to ignore the source?

 

[Deku Tree]

This is a stretch even for EDGE.

 

[mokeyjoe]

As the article says the Sony DRM decision was last minute. My guess is they haven't discussed this with all the third parties so there's going to be conflicting information floating around.

Sony lying would be pointless as the truth would be out by launch anyway so it wouldn't benfit them. They'd just find themselves in the same position as MS but also shown as being dishonest, so worse really.

I'm not saying PR doesn't lie, just that this would be a pointless thing to lie about. They could slowly backtrack as the generation wears on though and save face, but at launch it's hard to see them going back on what they said - it's a massive selling point for their console and publishers need Playstation for all the markets outside US/UK so they have a strong negotiating position.

 

[Nikodemos]

It's being too black and white, and people are being too hard on Microsoft. It's over exaggerated and overthought, and the census here makes it seem like they are evil people.

You make it sound like they aren't. Need I remind you, this is a company who keeps a de facto monopoly on desktop OS's (and has the lion's share of the server/laptop space), who isn't above the most craven anti-free-market practices when it comes to potential competition, and who needed repeated sledgehammers to the face by the European Commission's antitrust dept. before they changed their stance on several issues.

 

[plagiarize]

Exactly. Sony decided that fucking (some) publishers over would be worth it for them overall. Regardless of the outcome, I love it. Watch suits squirm!

it can't have been a hard decision to make really. after MS revealed their hand, Sony had the choice of competing directly with MS amongst the customers that had no issues with always online and nerfed resale rights, or not implementing those policies and picking up all the customers Microsoft just gave the cold shoulder to.

 

[Kyon]

Actually, the best bit about the article is



Why? They already told everyone half a dozen times. If they say "no the source is a lair" are Edge suddenly going to ignore the source?

they are trying to spread false information to soften the blow on MS. It's not happening the damage is already done. They certainly are trying tho

 

[sonicmj1]

I don't think it's impossible for this rumor to be true, but it'd be a pretty big feature to go back on before launch, given how much attention they gave it at their conference. If they wanted to remain cagey, they could have said nothing, or tried to slip it in quietly like the PS+ paywall.

If Sony were to intensify their DRM for some reason and start adding account-linked licenses to their disk games, I could only see them doing it at some point after launch, like how they backed away from the Sixaxis and backwards compatibility on the PS3.

 

[Au{R}oN]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzmVcasl3ZU

 

[Amused]

FFS, this is really not very complicated. Buying this game or that game is not fucking mandatory!

On the PS4 you can choose whether or not you want to buy a game that has DRM.
On the Xbone you get DRM - no matter what!

One plattform leaves it up to you - the customer - , the other one does not.

 

[Origami Superman]

People have to realise Sony didn't refuse DRM because of some ethical or moral crusade for gamers. It was a decision by them informed by increasing market share, increasing profits and growing their business. Like any other company, Nintendo, MS, Apple etc, they have and will lie to you.

Now I personally don't think they'll reverse their decision during this generation, because of the massive backlash, and I applaud them for taking the stance they have done, however, when I don't know the details of the story, the developer sources or what exactly what went on behind closed doors the past few months, I'm not going to call out Edge as being butthurt corporate fanboys. Such comments make you look much worse then them.

 

[Durante]

From Giantbomb interview

That needs its own thread.

 

[dosh]

Reading this thread, I am preplexed.

Please people. Stop it. Microsoft and Sony are both multi billion dollar corps who mainly care about profits and not getting sued. Don't kid yourself.

I don't know how much truth there is to any of this, but it's not hard to believe that Sony could have had a similar stance to Microsoft before this outcry started, and have changed it in, a PR Stunt. The no-DRM PS4campaign was most def. taking advantage of the situation.
Just like Microsoft gave into pressure and eased up on their policy.
You are too much in love with a company if you don't believe companies will try to change their tune behind the scene to say what the consumers want to hear.

------------------

It's being too black and white, and people are being too hard on Microsoft. It's over exaggerated and overthought, and the census here makes it seem like they are evil people.


It's great that Sony has abandoned a lot of their PS3-Early days arrogance and are more in touch with the gaming world now, but I don't believe the PS4 story is this perfect thing, it's being made out to be, just like the Xbox One story is not this disaster.

I don't think anyone is blind to any of this. People cheered all over the internet because the drm/online policies of both MS and Sony have been a question mark for months now, and Sony's stance was a relief. But it doesn't make them white knights. Everyone knows that they simply saw an opportunity in this and used it to crush MS during their conference.

People are not being too hard on MS though: they built a system based on online cheking. Sony didn't.

People have to realise Sony didn't refuse DRM because of some ethical or moral crusade for gamers. It was a decision by them informed by increasing market share, increasing profits and growing their business. Like any other company, Nintendo, MS, Apple etc, they have and will lie to you.

Now I personally don't think they'll reverse their decision during this generation, because of the massive backlash, and I applaud them for taking the stance they have done, however, when I don't know the details of the story, the developer sources or what exactly what went on behind closed doors the past few months, I'm not going to call out Edge as being butthurt corporate fanboys. Such comments make you look much worse then them.

Absolutely: calling Edge butthurt fanboys is stupid.
Edge trying to sensationalize something that was well understood and accepted by everyone else is equally stupid though.

 

[DBT85]

they are trying to spread false information to soften the blow on MS. It's not happening the damage is already done. They certainly are trying tho

I doubt that, genuinely, because they were great in the leaks before both consoles were announced. It just sounds like someone isn't getting his copy from the various press meetings and has gone with this.

 

[Darhan]

As I understand, any game that uses the PSN servers will need the user to pay the PS Plus. If the game uses their own servers, then PS Plus is not needed, but the developer can impose the online pass or even a fee if they want.

So MMO games probably will not require PS Plus (Final Fantasy XIV, for example), but the developer has to provide their own servers and can charge the user the way they want.

Just thinking out loud, don't take this as real.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Always online for certain games and online passes, I can't see it getting any worse.

 

[Shayan]

Actually, the best bit about the article is



Why? They already told everyone half a dozen times. If they say "no the source is a lair" are Edge suddenly going to ignore the source?

They have no source. They wrote the article in response to their anti SONY stance. Remember the 7s they gave to many PS3 exclusives when even Halo 3 got a 10 from them?

 

[SlipperyFishes]

DRM in the form of online passes for PS4, Tretton clarrified again: its gonna be how it was with the PS3. Not blocking used games or connect every 24h.

Online passes are not allowed on PS4.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Do people even realise how far Sony went in clarifying their used games policy, partially because they most likely anticipated that article such as this one would eventually pop up? When watching the conference, the one thing that should have caught your attention was how they went in detail about this. People should be critical and skeptical about all of this. But this skepticism we're seeing here has no basis. Sony's head of WW studios SCEI appears in a video to deliberately make fun of MS policies, Tretton spends time reiterating how it will work exactly like the Playstation 3 does now, which is what everyone wanted. Which is why the conferences was covered so widely, which is why the most credible news outlets ( Independent, BBC etc.) have reported on it so prominently.

There is nothing going on 'behind the scenes' that would change any of this. This would destroy Sony. Sony never had an incentive to block used games. Blocking used games would have presented them with more problems than would have been worth. This was a decision they'd made a long time ago and yesterday was a chance for them to exploit it by acting as though it was a direct response to MS policies.

 

[scytheavatar]

Sounds a lot more like Edge's "development sources" are wishing that PS4's DRM-free is a PR play, rather than having word that the DRM-free is a PR play. Sony is not going to end up looking like idiots by backtracking from their DRM-free policy.

 

[Kyon]

I doubt that, genuinely, because they were great in the leaks before both consoles were announced. It just sounds like someone isn't getting his copy from the various press meetings and has gone with this.

that could make sense but as a journalist you should fact check your information no matter what.

 

[Y2Kev]

I am kind of unhappy I don't know who to believe anymore because every company in my hobby is a sack of shit.

All I can say is that Sony was and continues to be unambiguous on this and any backtracking will result in an unprecedented blowback.

Edit: off topic, but edge was not really right on the 8gb of ram. They claimed Sony was telling developers it was aiming to hit 8 gb. Sony later revealed nobody knew at all, even first party. I think it was honestly a lucky coincidence.

 

[Hoho for breakfast]

Is there anything actually new here, or is this just spin? Seems like nothing new to me.

Sony isn't going to have some kind of system level checks or anything like that. Other publishers/devs however are (I assume) free to implement whatever type of DRM is possible, Xbox or PS4 doesn't matter.

So publishers/devs will try it on PS4 (I assume) and hopefully people have the common sense to not buy those particular games. If that happens, they'll stop the DRM bs. If the games sell, well then we'll end up with most games even on PS4, with all kinds of DRM.

 

[SymbolicGamer]

The people that do the hacking don't do it for piracy.

lol, yeah they do. Believe what you want, but I assure you nobody is wearing a white hat.

 

[Sorc3r3r]

Actually, the best bit about the article is



Why? They already told everyone half a dozen times. If they say "no the source is a lair" are Edge suddenly going to ignore the source?

Yeah the "we contacted Sony blabla" is funny, seems they can withdraw easily from what stated on the arictle and in the meantime gain a lot of clicks.

Pretty smart.

 

[GoddyofAus]

3rd party devs wont do jack shit. They love the Xbone since the blame on the measures used goes straight to MS whereas they try to do the same shit on PS4, they get put in the spotlight and every media outlet will blow them up for it.

Bingo. EDGE is talking out its arse, fishing for hits.

 

[Cartman86]

For sure there are going to be games that require online passes (or maybe even single player passes???) or a permanent connection to the internet. Games that you will question the reasoning for. And Sony can't really do anything about it without somehow reading the minds of the developers and publishers. How are they to know if a game needed that internet connection? Maybe that shitty little multiplayer/cloud thing was created in earnest. At some point it's up to the publishers to do no evil sadly. I suppose not making it system level leaves a good amount of room for enough games to not resort to this. Or perhaps single player games will just be green lit much anymore and everything will be designed as a service. A lot of the games shown at the conferences seem like those kind of games...

 

[gundamkyoukai]

This is becoming such a joke , PS4 will be just like PS3 with it's DRM which mean pubs can do what ever they want .
Of course most of them don't have the balls to make there DRM worst after what has happen .
It easy the see the difference between MS and Sony if you just take 5 mins to listen or read which sites don't seem to be doing .

 

[DBT85]

that could make sense but as a journalist you should fact check your information no matter what.

remember the subject matter here lol.

 

[Kyon]

For sure there are going to be games that require online passes (or maybe even single player passes???) or a permanent connection to the internet.

This is NOT happening and was confirmed many many times over

 

[kitch9]

A question for Edge.

How can a console designed to work completely offline implement even a quarter of the DRM MS has you stupid twats?

Please feel free to contact me for comment.

 

[6.8]

For sure there are going to be games that require online passes (or maybe even single player passes???) or a permanent connection to the internet. Games that you will question the reasoning for. And Sony can't really do anything about it without somehow reading the minds of the developers and publishers. How are they to know if a game needed that internet connection? Maybe that shitty little multiplayer/cloud thing was created in earnest. At some point it's up to the publishers to do no evil sadly. I suppose not making it system level leaves a good amount of room for enough games to not resort to this.

They can not approve the game. But they didn't say they wouldn't do that. Except for the online pass bit. So the rest could definitely happen.

 

[Mortimer Brewster]

It's pretty clear this is how things break down:

- Xbox with perhaps perhaps EA+Ubi worked to develop an always online console
- The goal was to end used games, leverage Xbox Live as the killer feature to make it work
- Sony was less advanced in their DRM plans, or never had them
- Sony never planned to go all-online
- Sony saw the opportunity to shank Microsoft in public and went for it
- Third parties are now freaking the fuck out and probably lying about their respect for the used game market, since it directly contradicts YEARS of comments from all of them
- Publishers are still desperate to stop used sales and consider it a priority
- They will do whatever they can to stymie used sales but Sony have just screwed the pooch

I don't believe Sony are the good guys here. They just saw one avenue of profit - public narrative of consumer friendliness - as worth more than fucking over users again. This is the Sony that installed a rootkit on CDs. I think they just punked Microsoft old-school, but we all know what's coming. This generation will be messy.

I agree, Sony realized that by saying no to DRM and always online, they were going to be able to gain a ton of momentum and goodwill for the PS4 which will lead to a lot of sold systems which equals profit for Sony. The 3rd parties are probably a little miffed but now that Sony has let used games back out of the bottle, most publishers won't dare try that crap on the PS4. At worse we will see is the return of the online passes or heavier emphasis on dlc or persistently online games. However, all those will be judged on a case by case basis by the consiumer.

 

[rain elbows]

Is there anything actually new here, or is this just spin? Seems like nothing new to me.

Sony isn't going to have some kind of system level checks or anything like that. Other publishers however are (I assume) free to implement whatever type of DRM is possible, Xbox or PS4 doesn't matter.

So publishers will try it on PS4 (I assume) and hopefully people have the common sense to not buy those particular games. If that happens, they'll stop the DRM bs. If the games sell, well then we'll end up with most games even on PS4, with all kinds of DRM.

Exactly, this article is a non-story. Jack said the same on Spike. There is no system level DRM. Publishers can try to implement their own software based restrictions, but their ecosystem isn't built to facilitate that activity at a hardware level.

 

[Cheech]

Edge were always anti PS3 so no surprise they are trying to stir up something out of nothing.

Ugh, come ON. Edge is arguably the most reputable gaming publication on the planet. There's a reason their subs are so expensive. Think about it.

Anyway, this would be why I immediately preordered an Xbone and a PS4, despite only keeping one. I don't expect my final decision to be made months from now; there is just too much BS and unknowns at this point.

Whoever mentioned "this is the same Sony that installed root kits on CDs" is absolutely correct. They are approaching this gen from a position of desperation; they haven't had a Bona Fide Hit Product since the PS2 FFS. Sony is a LONG way from the milk and honey years of Walkman, Discman, Trinitron, and yes, PS1/PS2.

I believe Sony will say and do anything to sell PS4s, and I find it extremely dubious that pubs like EA will continue selling PS4 games just like PS3 games, when Microsoft gives them a much better deal.

I do agree with the poster who mentioned that PS4 first party games won't have used protections built in. Unfortunately, I don't personally give a crap about Sony first party games; they just aren't to my taste. I greatly prefer MS first party/XBLA, however I will go PS4 and stick to third party stuff for the first year or two until Microsoft reverses its stupidity, assuming Sony is being straight with us re: DRM policies across all games.

So, we will see. I feel as though the safe thing is to preorder both machines ASAP and see how it plays out, assuming of course you care about XBLA and MS first party.

 

[Screaming Meat]

It's pretty clear this is how things break down:

- Xbox with perhaps perhaps EA+Ubi worked to develop an always online console
- The goal was to end used games, leverage Xbox Live as the killer feature to make it work
- Sony was less advanced in their DRM plans, or never had them
- Sony never planned to go all-online
- Sony saw the opportunity to shank Microsoft in public and went for it
- Third parties are now freaking the fuck out and probably lying about their respect for the used game market, since it directly contradicts YEARS of comments from all of them
- Publishers are still desperate to stop used sales and consider it a priority
- They will do whatever they can to stymie used sales but Sony have just screwed the pooch

I don't believe Sony are the good guys here. They just saw one avenue of profit - public narrative of consumer friendliness - as worth more than fucking over users again.this is the Sony that installed a rootkit on CDs. I think they just punked Microsoft old-school, but we all know what's coming. This generation will be messy.

This, for the most part, is a pretty sensible dissection of the situation.

 

[marrec]

But the Publishers could...

This gen is so damned confusing/irritating

I think the worst thing the publishers could do on the PS4 is require you to Download the game and play it from harddrive instead of playing it from disk. Only offer a digital copy of the game and you're suddenly in a DRMesque scenario that's similar (but not near as egregious) to the Xbone. Besides the impotent online passes, what else can they do?

 

[SlipperyFishes]

They have no source. They wrote the article in response to their anti SONY stance. Remember the 7s they gave to many PS3 exclusives when even Halo 3 got a 10 from them?

Blinkers on. Because some reviewer didn't like X Sony or Y Microsoft game and reviewed X(2) Sony game or Y(2) better there's some bias.

The only anti-anything you're showing here is your own bias against Microsoft. Admittedly they've been the shittiest for a long time recently but if you're really upset that EDGE scored Uncharted lower then simply read a Pro-Sony fansite.

I mean PS Lifestyle has given all Naughty Dog games a perfect 10, and including the Vita non-ND Uncharted game. Can you honestly say that TV movie deserved a ten? Bias exists where you look for it.

 

[eshwaaz]

People have to realise Sony didn't refuse DRM because of some ethical or moral crusade for gamers. It was a decision by them informed by increasing market share, increasing profits and growing their business. Like any other company, Nintendo, MS, Apple etc, they have and will lie to you.

Now I personally don't think they'll reverse their decision during this generation, because of the massive backlash, and I applaud them for taking the stance they have done, however, when I don't know the details of the story, the developer sources or what exactly what went on behind closed doors the past few months, I'm not going to call out Edge as being butthurt corporate fanboys. Such comments make you look much worse then them.

I agree, but no one wants to hear this. Everyone is so relieved that Sony is not taking the same despicable route as MS that they're being seen as a hero to the customer; crusaders for the rights of the consumer. I'm as thrilled as anyone that Sony has made these decisions, but that they did it out of love and respect for us, the players, is ridiculous.

 

[eznark]

This is NOT happening and was confirmed many many times over

There will definitely be games that require an online connection. Those games exist on the PS3 now too. How will you play Warframe or Destiny without being online??

 

[Shayan]

Ugh, come ON. Edge is arguably the most reputable gaming publication on the planet. There's a reason their subs are so expensive. Think about it.

haha this is funny. Most reputable and EDGE?

 

[alundra]

- Not allowing online passes, even for third parties, since PS+ is now required for online play.
- $399 was a target price set many years ago
- Camera is not included, costs $59
- F2P online games/services won't require PS+
- Subscription based games/services won't require PS+From Giantbomb interview

this.

too mush spin here