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[Teppic]

EDGE bought by Microsoft? Who knows...

 

[famousmortimer]

OT hey Demon Soul 2 is in the works?

My understanding is that we'll hear about FROM's PS4 exclusive at Tokyo Game Show. A lot of people think it's Demon's Souls 2. I was told it was a spiritual successor. We'll see.


TGS is actually going to have a few bombs. Sony (obviously) wants to hit hard in their homeland as well.

 

[Alej]

So their solution for publishers is PS+? Because a part of PS+ profit goes to publishers? It's a damn smart idea if true.

 

[Fi Fo Nye]

If offline passes happen Sony is dead to me. My preorder was completely based on the promise of non drm.

If offline passes happen, then it should be the publisher(s) who implements them that should be dead to you, not Sony, for it is not Sony who is implementing the offline DRM, but the publisher whom Sony cannot restrict from implementing offline DRM through "phone home" machinations of their own design. At least you will know that Sony is not the one providing the DRM enforcement infrastructure as Microsoft is; it is overhead publishers are going to have to incur on their own.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

I'm guessing third parties can require a constant online connection too. I don't think they would take full advantage of that on the Xbox One and then rip out whatever features they made for that for the more powerful console's port.

 

[SlowRevolution]

Honestly if you think no DRM and no used game fees is going to last the entire next generation, you're probably wrong. We never started this gen with online passes and a huge amount of day 1 DLC, but look where we are. My guess is Sony is going to get a lot of pressure from publishers to enable their own (publisher's) drm measures. I think it'll slowly roll out over the curse of a few years.

You have to look at it from the standpoint of a publisher. Which place do they potential stand to make more money? A console where they can closely control who and how their games are played.

What if the major publishers simply don't support the PS4, because of this measure? Then there will be no 3rd party games. Look at the Dreamcast and lack of EA games on the console. Not saying it killed it, but it certainly didn't help.

Microsoft started all of this shit. Not the publishers.

 

[Courage]

Honestly if you think no DRM and no used game fees is going to last the entire next generation, you're probably wrong. We never started this gen with online passes and a huge amount of day 1 DLC, but look where we are. My guess is Sony is going to get a lot of pressure from publishers to enable their own (publisher's) drm measures. I think it'll slowly roll out over the curse of a few years.

That's a flawed way of looking at it. If Sony is making a deal out of it pre-release, then it'll remain that way for its entire cycle. Online passes were implemented during a time where used games and consumer rights being impeded were not a worry in the industry.

 

[Sorc3r3r]

My understanding is that we'll hear about FROM's PS4 exclusive at Tokyo Game Show. A lot of people think it's Demon's Souls 2. I was told it was a spiritual successor. We'll see.


TGS is actually going to have a few bombs. Sony (obviously) wants to hit hard in their homeland as well.

OMG OMG

Thank you!

 

[Hanmik]

please stop the "EDGE is trying to be anti-sony" stuff..

just go to the site. look at the top banners..

it´s not like they aretrying to make the Xbox One look better..

to me it looks like they are reporting what their sources are saying.. which seem to contradict some of the stuff Sony is telling the press.

We have been hard on lots of sites lately, telling them to report better and ask tougher questions. EDGE is reporting what they hear, and they seem to have contacted Sony to answer the questions they have.. isn´t that what we have asked for..?

They might have gotten some wrong info from their sources, but at least they are trying to get the right info, and follow up on this.

 

[dosh]

sadly many many people are going to believe this and its just sad

One single article on Edge won't do a lot of damage. And the author is being called out in the commentaries.

 

[gofreak]

but the publisher whom Sony cannot restrict from implementing offline DRM through "phone home" machinations of their own design.

They can with TRCs, their licensing agreement, and it sounds like they are. When it comes to publisher options they've said that publisher discretion over pay-gating etc. is only for online play and modes etc.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

Slightly off topic but I hope Sony leads the charge on the digital front by offering digital versions of retail games at a significant discount. No better way to curb used games sales than to offer the digital version for $10-$20 off.

 

[Pug]

Sources = other shitty "journalists"

Nope.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

My understanding is that we'll hear about FROM's PS4 exclusive at Tokyo Game Show. A lot of people think it's Demon's Souls 2. I was told it was a spiritual successor. We'll see.


TGS is actually going to have a few bombs. Sony (obviously) wants to hit hard in their homeland as well.

I can see The Last Guardian being there, well, a new trailer at least

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Realistically, publishers could only use online passes for the PS4, right? Or is there another method available to them?

An expansion of the online pass to include all the content on the disc?

 

[KissVibes]

If offline passes happen, then it should be the publisher(s) who implements them that should be dead to you, not Sony, for it is not Sony who is implementing the offline DRM, but the publisher whom Sony cannot restrict from implementing offline DRM through "phone home" machinations of their own design. At least you will know that Sony is not the one providing the DRM enforcement infrastructure as Microsoft is; it is overhead publishers are going to have to incur on their own.

No, it is Sony that should be dead to him. It's bullshit to burn Microsoft like that and then come out and say "WE'RE LEAVING IT UP TO PUBLISHERS." And Sony could totally restrict publishers from doing it. If they don't, they're disingenuous as fuck and mislead consumers on Monday.

 

[Tiops]

Sony is being very clear about their DRM policies, to me it's impossible that they'll end up doing something different that what they're stating now. If they were being ambiguous about it, I would be worried.

Unless the article is talking about Online DRM. Then it's a bullshit article, anyway.

 

[Audioboxer]

They appear to think people want to read printed bullshit all of a sudden.

Reads like warm diarrhea squirted out of a fat man just off an 18 hour plane journey.

 

[Salaadin]

Arent Edge sources the ones who broke the story on MS no used/always online stuff? Thats what bothers me about this article. They could be correct here.

 

[Replicant]

People saying ”its just like the PS3" are technically correct but missing the point.

Multiplatform publishers are NOT going to release a locked down version of their game on the Xbox and an open version on the PS4.

Microsoft's policy is going to influence what publishers do on the PS4.

You mean like how Ubisoft release DRM-locked games on Wii U? Oh wait.....MS is not that influential despite their tendency to bribe every greedy people out there. Otherwise Explorer, Windows 8, and Surface wouldn't flop so hard right now.

 

[Osiris]

I'm guessing third parties can require a constant online connection too. I don't think they would take full advantage of that on the Xbox One and then rip out whatever features they made for that for the more powerful console's port.

That wouldn't make sense though, MS are providing an always online system via the Microsoft Azure platform, as part of Xbox Live to provide that functionality, Devs would have to develop or outsource a 2nd online infrastructure in order to mirror that functionality on the PS4 as Sony are not providing or supporting it and it's HIGHLY unlikely that MS would allow devs/publishers to use their platform to support other platforms like the PS4. So they would be increasing their costs significantly in order to do so.

 

[Portugeezer]

Realistically, publishers could only use online passes for the PS4, right? Or is there another method available to them?

Well realistically there is no stopping them from making online pass into a single player pass, i.e. you have to activate the whole game not just the online portion.

I hope not.

 

[marrec]

Slightly off topic but I hope Sony leads the charge on the digital front by offering digital versions of retail games at a significant discount. No better way to curb used games sales than to offer the digital version for $10-$20 off.

It seems that Publishers want to have their cake and eat it too. The don't want used sales, but they also don't want the steep discounts that come naturally from egregious DRM (as shown with Steam).

 

[Kyon]

One single article on Edge won't do a lot of damage. And the author is being called out in the commentaries.

That's good. Also one thing i am seeing often is people saying MS left DRM to publishers which is a lie because its built in to the OS all this misinformation is crazy. Sony couldnt be any more clear and still people act like they didnt say anything

 

[JohngPR]

A 3rd party publisher would have to create their own backend (since the OS won't support that kind of transaction natively) that would charge a PS4 specific fee since it won't be supported by the console itself. I don't think any publisher will have the balls to do that. They would have to go out of their way to charge for that.

Online passes? Sure. Season Passes and DLC to mitigate the price? Of course. I don't think a 3rd party publisher would restrict you behind a second pay wall considering PS4 has no online checks.

 

[jacobeid]

Shuhei confirmed on the latest beyond podcast that it would be in the form of online passes or other exceptions like an MMO or SERVICE based games.


Single player games will not be locked behind DRM

Entered this thread to post this. Here's the direct link for those interested, conversation starts around 14 minutes. http://ec.libsyn.com/p/b/d/6/bd6b10...1ce3dae902ea1d01cf8637d5ca541e4d&c_id=5763995.

Although ShadyJ, I might be mistaken, but I thought Shu said that there would NOT be online passes because PS+ is required for online play. Things that Shu called "new business models" like season passes are what they are leaving to the publishers. No single player game will be affected.

EDIT: Shuhei confirms no online passes at 15:05 in the podcast.

 

[AppleSmack]

This almost reads like a PR money-hat article by Microsoft.

 

[famousmortimer]

I can see The Last Guardian being there, well, a new trailer at least

I think that ship has sailed. Would love to be wrong.



Anyway, back on topic... I don't think this is part of an overall strategy from EDGE as MS PR shills. I think it's one article that is completely irresponsible that not only doesn't offer proof but doesn't even explain how it would happen. It's an awful piece of journalism.

 

[TheDarkKnight774]

And how will they do this?

I really look forward to see which dev steps their toe into that minefield. Every dev is running away from that kind of thought after Sonys presser. Just look at EAs recent quotes and their back peddling.

 

[methane47]

Some one really needs to just Slap ALL these developers who think that they can Double dip on the consumer's Dime.
That Revenue simply does NOT belong to you.

If you drop the price dramatically then ok you can get a piece of the pie. Otherwise just leave me alone

 

[Seanspeed]

"We've already come right out and said we're not going to allow online pass. And the word "allow" is key there. Specifically with online, with PS+ requiring a charge to play online, we would not want any publisher [to charge.] In general, we're all businesses. Sony or Microsoft is never going to be able to tell EA or Activision exactly what they can do. What we like to say at PlayStation is that we set the precedent. The way we are approaching this is that we want this to be extremely consumer-friendly, extremely retailer-friendly, and extremely publisher-friendly. My personal opinion is that it's hard for me to believe that any major publisher is going to put an extra set of used DRM onto game titles because that wouldn't put them in a good spot, right?" - Scott Rohde

"The Online Pass program for PlayStation first-party games will not continue on PlayStation 4. Similar to PS3, we will not dictate the online used game strategy (the ability to play used games online) of its publishing partners. As announced last night, PS4 will not have any gating restrictions for used disc-based games. When a gamer buys a PS4 disc they have right to use that copy of the game, so they can trade-in the game at retail, sell it to another person, lend it to a friend, or keep it forever." - Dan Race

"What he talked about is with the offline portion there's no difference from PS3 in that every game is playable on PS4. In terms of just getting access of multiplayer online, it's now taken care of at a platform level by PS Plus. So our first party titles had the online pass on PS3 and Vita. That we are not doing on PS4 because of that platform level. It's the same for third parties; when it comes to just giving you access to online multiplayer, it's PS Plus going forward." - Shu Yoshida

"In general free-to-play games will not require PS+ but it is up to the publishers. Subscription based games will not require PS+." - Scott Rohde

Seems pretty clear to me. Online passes for first-party? Gone. Online passes for third-party? Up to the publisher but hope they won't implement. Used games? No restriction. Lending and trading? No restriction. Private sales? No restriction. Mandatory online check-ins? No restriction. Offline games? No restriction.

It'll be the same as Xbox One, though.

Yes, they cant control what happens with a game offline, but all a publisher has to do is require 'always online' or at least some sort of online authentication and bam, they get complete control over the ability to charge for single or multiplayer and also if a user can sell the game. A user will be able to sell the disc, sure, but does that automatically mean the person buying it will get to play it?

Some of that is reassuring, but it hasn't put my mind at ease yet.

 

[Nikodemos]

Slightly off topic but I hope Sony leads the charge on the digital front by offering digital versions of retail games at a significant discount. No better way to curb used games sales than to offer the digital version for $10-$20 off.

That's because they're smart. The best way to kill the used games market is to closely emulate the way it was killed on the PC: via heavily discounted games.

EDIT:

It seems that Publishers want to have their cake and eat it too. The don't want used sales, but they also don't want the steep discounts that come naturally from egregious DRM (as shown with Steam).

Then I hope the entire AAAaawhatever game production model crashes and burns to a smouldering cinder.

 

[von Stroheim]

There better not be a Betrayalton!

 

[Miles Quaritch]

This almost reads like a PR money-hat article by Microsoft.

Are you serious right now?

 

[itsgreen]

Some really needs to just Slap ALL developers.
That Revenue simply does NOT belong to you.

The weird thing is Ubi, Activision and EA now have said they are fine with the way things currently are with second hand games...

 

[luoapp]

It seems that Publishers want to have their cake and eat it too. The don't want used sales, but they also don't want the steep discounts that come naturally from egregious DRM (as shown with Steam).

The thing is, that 15 bucks come from no retailer cut + no costs associated with physical disks, they are not getting it anyway.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

This is just childish.

How is it childish ?
MS is dead in Japan and EU they sell could not out sell PS3 expect for UK where they had a 18 months lead and cheaper system whole gen .
Now Sony coming out the same time , will be cheaper and have less DRM .
Pubs can say what they want but the can't screw over Sony because they get half there sales from them .

 

[Chiggs]

Sony kind of backed themselves into a corner. If things aren't as they promised it's going to be armageddon

I knew there was something fishy when the whole conference went down; I even made a thread about it--which was subsequently locked. It was like GAF wrote the whole thing; too good to be true.

 

[dosh]

It seems that Publishers want to have their cake and eat it too. The don't want used sales, but they also don't want the steep discounts that come naturally from egregious DRM (as shown with Steam).

I wonder how Steam and GOG managed to implement such discounts while the rest of the industry insists on having digital games at retail prices. Other than pc games traditionally being cheaper I mean.

 

[Shayan]

You mean like how Ubisoft release DRM-locked games on Wii U? Oh wait.....MS is not that influential despite their tendency to bribe every greedy people out there. Otherwise Explorer, Windows 8, and Surface wouldn't flop so hard right now.

some people are thinking that Xone policies will dictate other consoles which is just laughable. This can only happen if xone becomes a global success which is impossible

 

[maquiladora]

Hey guys, remember this "Edge source"?

Edge sources: PS4 to miss Xmas release in Europe

 

[gofreak]

An expansion of the online pass to include all the content on the disc?

Sony/Yoshida has said that pub options on how to control/treat second users etc. are limited to online play/dlc/modes/services. So I don't think they can do that, I think offline single player content can't be subject to gating.

They CAN design games to fundamentally require a net connection, make them online only, etc. but that's another matter. That's been possible since PS2 and probably will become more prevalent, but pubs will have to judge the market on that and whether online features in single player modes should be graceful, optional additions (think Journey or Demons Souls) or fundamental necessities, game breakers if not connected.

 

[spwolf]

An expansion of the online pass to include all the content on the disc?

this is not possible - Tretton has said last night that single player games will never have to be on internet or connected to internet. This means that 3rd party can not implement such restriction.

This is what Sony has to do, not publisher, and Sony did not do it.

How many times does this have to be repeated?

 

[Usobuko]

My understanding is that we'll hear about FROM's PS4 exclusive at Tokyo Game Show. A lot of people think it's Demon's Souls 2. I was told it was a spiritual successor. We'll see.


TGS is actually going to have a few bombs. Sony (obviously) wants to hit hard in their homeland as well.

Please be action games. Please Japan.

 

[Pug]

They can with TRCs, their licensing agreement, and it sounds like they are. When it comes to publisher options they've said that publisher discretion over pay-gating etc. is only for online play and modes etc.

But as EDGE reports

"We were also told that final publishing agreements will not be drawn up for at least another month, so the terms of engagement could yet change once more before each console launches at the end of the year."

If Sony did drop DRM plans last minute, there would be a lot of shite flying around behind the scenes.

 

[DBT85]

I'm going to bed, I look forward to this being clarified, debunked, clarified again, debunked and clarified again by the time I wake up.

 

[GlamFM]

Well its both validating and upsetting that my fears about this are not completely unfounded.

I find it amazing the amount of people that have naively bought into this idea that Sony are some 'good friend' company that wouldn't be misleading or a bit deceitful in their attempts to sell consoles. People saying that Sony wouldn't lie aren't getting the point - they worded all their statements very carefully. It wouldn't be a lie. SONY will not enable any DRM and will allow used games and allow games to be played offline. But as they've said very early on, publishers will still have the power to require always online and any sort of DRM they wish. It may not be exactly the same as the way Microsoft are handling it, but there's nothing stopping them from doing this in general.

This is exactly what I mean. And what EDGE seems to think.
Might happen, might not happen - I honestly think it´s too early to party.

 

[Famassu]

Possibly, but I imagine it's not too difficult for a publisher to include something like a "License Key" with their game and have it authenticate itself online.

Yes it is because PS4 games cannot require any kind of Internet connection EVER (online only multiplayer games/modes not included).

After how clear Sony was during the press conference, I can't believe there are STILL naysayers.

 

[captainraincoat]

All MS need to do is simply give the xbone the ability to set the console to offline mode with no limit (like steam) and simply point towards how successful steam and origin are.......they dont even need to talk about always online.

As annoying as Steam and Origin once were they now have become staples of PC gaming
and should be adopted for home console use.

Providing they have sales like steam and not try and sell 3 year old games for day 1 prices
it could be a game changer....MS have plenty of time to change the execution

 

[Terra_Ex]

I doubt it, the backlash against Sony if they pulled something like this would be unfathomable. Their competitor fucked up and it was a smart move to capitalise on it to the maximum extent possible, simply as.