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EDGE: "Power struggle: the real differences between PS4 and Xbox One performance"
- Thread starter Musiol
- Start date
So what's the power difference between a 360 and a PS3 for a developer who isn't capable of "unlocking" PS3's true potential?
I mean, PS3 having a power disadvantage if the devs weren't capable of handling the CPU is the reason why many third party titles were better on the 360. Right? But how much of a disadvantage was that? That disadvantage meant noticeable changes to textures, foliage, pop-up, lighting, and whatever Bayonetta's deal was.
All weren't THAT big of a deal in the grand scheme of things, but the differences between versions were definitely noticeable when you put them side by side.
I mean, PS3 having a power disadvantage if the devs weren't capable of handling the CPU is the reason why many third party titles were better on the 360. Right? But how much of a disadvantage was that? That disadvantage meant noticeable changes to textures, foliage, pop-up, lighting, and whatever Bayonetta's deal was.
All weren't THAT big of a deal in the grand scheme of things, but the differences between versions were definitely noticeable when you put them side by side.
HORRORSHØW
Member
It only matters if someone is going to only buy one of the two, and only on which has the stronger performance on third party titles, and in that event, the performance benefit is going to lay with PS4, no one seems to think otherwise, even if the performance is smaller than some anticipate.
Beyond that, it's down to the specific games, and that'll just be the normal Digital Foundry type stuff for people who own both.
It's warranted discussion purely out of intrigue and the comparative technical designs of the systems, but ultimately, in terms of it's use for consumer purchasing advice, the debate seems to be over, and have been since they were announced.
I find all of this to be absolutely amazing. This isn't a comment on this particular thread but more the "power wars" in general. I'd love to know of a case for this next gen launch where an objective buyer used power as the deciding factor in which console to buy. It's a ridiculous notion to use with console gaming, especially when, let's face it, both consoles have fairly similar specs. (there is not a Wii --> 360/PS3 difference here)
Seriously, what in the hell are we even talking about anymore? Both consoles are powerful and "next gen", both produce good looking games, is power really a deciding factor for anybody? I just think it's amazing that so much importance is placed on power when it is probably the last thing an objective buyer considers when buying these consoles.
Seriously, what in the hell are we even talking about anymore? Both consoles are powerful and "next gen", both produce good looking games, is power really a deciding factor for anybody? I just think it's amazing that so much importance is placed on power when it is probably the last thing an objective buyer considers when buying these consoles.
Claude Kenni
Member
Concerning the thread that was just locked, why is such blatant thread shitting being allowed which was simply due to a kneejerk reaction to something which had nothing to do with the content of the thread?
It's pretty aggravating to see someone who made a long and intelligent post relentless mocked because of arbitrary wording and the fact that the post wasn't executed 100% perfectly. This "let's all try to post fast with a wise zinger" mindset means people didn't even give the content of the post a chance, most who shitted on the threat probably didn't even attempt to read it.
There may be multiple threads lately about the power difference and closing or combining a thread is fair but why is shitting on a thread based on just a weirdly worded title allowable?
His points about multiplats potentially not using the PS4 to its fullest were very worth discussing and his conclusions were very level-headed.
It's pretty aggravating to see someone who made a long and intelligent post relentless mocked because of arbitrary wording and the fact that the post wasn't executed 100% perfectly. This "let's all try to post fast with a wise zinger" mindset means people didn't even give the content of the post a chance, most who shitted on the threat probably didn't even attempt to read it.
There may be multiple threads lately about the power difference and closing or combining a thread is fair but why is shitting on a thread based on just a weirdly worded title allowable?
His points about multiplats potentially not using the PS4 to its fullest were very worth discussing and his conclusions were very level-headed.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
That thread started by plagiarize and his reputation. That was painful.
He raised some good points but he murdered his own thread by mentioning 'Reputation'. Poor sod. We all make mistakes.
I thought this line was interesting.
He raised some good points but he murdered his own thread by mentioning 'Reputation'. Poor sod. We all make mistakes.
I thought this line was interesting.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
But will the PS4 have Halo 5?
TechnicPuppet
Nothing! I said nothing!
Source?
Manmademan
Member
That's for cross platform titles. Doesn't really apply for games where there won't be a PC version (probably JP titles like FF) or games 2 years out when cross platform (meaning ps3,360,wiiU in addition to next gen) is no longer a thing.
at that point lead platform will be down to marketshare and not much else.
endresults
Member
Arrogance gets stamped out pretty quickly around here. It's a good thing.
Why is it important to YOU what an "objective buyer" things? How is that relevant? It's YOU who buys the console.
On the statement that both consoles are "next gen" - it seems like BF4 struggles even on PS4, let alone we didn't see the XB1 version. If you now think about that those consoles are to stick at least 5 years till we see something new, you get where the power discussions come from. You need to consider that for 95% of the buyers here at NeoGAF, the advancement in technology is the No. 1 reason to buy a new console. There really is no other reason. So the overall performance does matter as does a potential 50% gap, considering the even cheaper price of the PS4.
Chaostar
Member
"Everyone is doing it" doesn't seem like a reasonable excuse for stating opinion as fact. A good way of avoiding the question though, which was...
"Will the more expensive and weaker console outsell the competition purely on 'brand power' in the UK?"
Bravo.
Claude Kenni
Member
What arrogance? The OP was not presuming that he was important or had a reputation, he was presuming that people would actually read his post and judge him based on his conclusions. I consider it arrogant to rapidly reply to a thread en masse purely to shit on it due to something arbitrary like wording when it was such a long and intelligent post.
That should not be allowed, you're encouraging people to ignore everything about a thread but the title to get a first post in and even shit on it and attempt to try and shut it down without using a shred of logic.
This is truly the best console launch period ever.
Manmademan
Member
This is outstanding. bravo.
Haha damn, that's great.
TechnicPuppet
Nothing! I said nothing!
I answered the question.
Majmun
Member
Considering Ps4 allotment seems to be larger, and the console is much cheaper.
Pretty easy to figure out, really.
Incredible
I think it has something to do with the fact that the ps4 is not only more powerful, it's also 100$ cheaper than the competition. Exclusives aside (for those who only play Cod & Madden/Fifa - which happens to be a large segment of the console market) why would you pay more for less? Everybody has a hard time explaining that one to other consumers, specially MS, if their PR fiascos of the past weeks are any indication.
They are similar products, which serve the very specific needs of the gaming market. If course everything will be analyzed, from games to power, ultimately leading to price comparisons. If the Xbox cost 800$ but had 3x the power of the ps4, it would be possible to justify its price. Given that they're in the same price range, and the more expensive one is apparently weaker..that raises questions and everyone wants to compare. It's something an informed consumer would do.
gundamkyoukai
Member
gifs you made for last few days have been awesome.
Welcome and great first post.
I do not believe those esram number for xbone. Its stuff of fairy tales. its fuzzy math at best....
TechnicPuppet
Nothing! I said nothing!
So no source then.
ThirdMartini
Neo Member
I think we are mostly in agreement, From the leaked diagrams it looks like PS4 has <~20GB direct link to GDDR5 plus an the additional onion/onion+ 10GB Coherent link. So that would be ~30GB if both buses can be run simultaneously. (Not quite clear if thats the case though...I'm assuming they can.. cause otherwise that would be a silly decision)
The Xbox One has a single 30GB coherent link. So if coherent access is required.. the One has a 20GB of bandwidth advantage. But if not.. it's a wash. Coherent access is only required for data that will be accessed by the GPU and CPU (or any axillary hardware) simultaneously... there are some interesting things that this can allow the One to be better at (say programatic textures/CPU doing some post/pre processing work?)
I don't see any other (higher speed) GDDR5/DDR3 to/from CPU on either platform. At least not from the diagrams I'm looking at.
Are you seeing something else I'm missing?
Will be interesting once both architectures get torn apart after release.
and special sauce *dead*
Chaostar
Member
Oh you were serious with that answer? Ok then.
Steve McQueen
Member
Since I'm not ready to put my well known and much respected reputation on the line... I'll just post this here.
3rd Party games differences.
1. Games that have no competition in the genre (Madden 25) - minimal to no differences
2. Games that have other competition in the genre (Racing games ex. NFS Rivals) - there will be noticeable differences
3. Games that have marketing deals with Sony - noticeable differences
now the wild card situations are the 3rd Party games that have Microsoft exclusive deals like Titan. I'm guessing minimal to no differences (depends how the clouds align eh eh??)
this is more so long term...but at launch there should be alittle less differences across the board.
3rd Party games differences.
1. Games that have no competition in the genre (Madden 25) - minimal to no differences
2. Games that have other competition in the genre (Racing games ex. NFS Rivals) - there will be noticeable differences
3. Games that have marketing deals with Sony - noticeable differences
now the wild card situations are the 3rd Party games that have Microsoft exclusive deals like Titan. I'm guessing minimal to no differences (depends how the clouds align eh eh??)
this is more so long term...but at launch there should be alittle less differences across the board.
Oh.....WOW!!!!
Majmun
Member
Nope, I'm just guessing.
Ps4 >>>>X1 is happening in MS' largest territory, why shouldn't it also happen in the UK?
Larger allotment + chaper price makes me guess that the UK pre-order numbers for Ps4 could also be higher there.
I read that whole thing in Morpheus' voice. Bravo.
50% is a big difference and it means multi platform games will look and play best on PS4. That's why is power is a deciding factor. Price is another one.
Manmademan
Member
we need a "GIFs of the year" thread for original content like this. SO many good ones this year.
the nutty professor/wiiU one is still tops for me though. Dude's name was even Reggie.
the nutty professor/wiiU one is still tops for me though. Dude's name was even Reggie.
MrToughPants
Brian Burke punched my mom
amazing
bigboss370
Member
haha, nice gif.
Flatline
Banned
You are a God amongst men. I was laughing my ass off at the last part.
God I thought he was standing on clouds for a second. That would Have been hilarious. Great Job.
So, just games .. huh?
The Cartographer
Member
Superb.
you and yer animated image shenanigans
Wonderful! This should be placed in the OP of every specs thread.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Even for DDR3 and the like, latency is so far bigger than what you see in the local L2, let alone registers, to make round trips to main RAM a pain in the butt. Depending on the system architecture you have, the kind of code it will run most of the time, you spend resources on improving, tweaking or implementing one of the many mitigation measures you have available. They are holistically designed systems in which CPU, GPU, memory, dedicated custom logic, and the OS are designed to work together efficiently and get chosen and tweaked to do just that.
Talking about a single execution stream, out of order issue and execution does work around latency (albeit it hardly covers much more than L1 misses nowadays) and when we go on multiple threads of execution, CPU's and GPU's are not dissimilar at all.
It is the workload you run on them that varies not their capabilities of hiding latency with computation from one or multiple threads. Switch on Event MT, Simultaneous MT, and slightly off topic scout threads (they kind of alleviate data dependencies a bit indirectly) are other ways of saying that CPU designer had to tackle the latency issue before and with similar ideas basically.
We do not know of the memory controller on the PS4 has been tweaked and performs better than what you see on PC's and desktop GPU's... Direct Rambus DRAM obtained a very bad undeserved reputation on PC's thanks also to poorly designed controllers and the implementation Sony and Rambus provided in PS2 as well as what Alpha engineers were doing with the EV7. Could they have worked with AMD to ensure latency is kept under control? It is possible.
In the UK, the turning point that sealed the PS3' fate was GTA4.
It was available on the 360 and PS3 the same day. Same price.
The 360 had been out longer and was cheaper. Didn't matter that the 360 version was better. The fact that it was cheaper to buy a 360 to get GTA4 is what defeated the PS3.
I remember the midnight opening, the PS3 version was getting outsold 3-1. All the little chavs wanted the 360 version as the console was much cheaper.
This is why this arguement is a waste of time.
PS4 has already won as it's cheaper considerably. That its 50% better is just a bonus!
It was available on the 360 and PS3 the same day. Same price.
The 360 had been out longer and was cheaper. Didn't matter that the 360 version was better. The fact that it was cheaper to buy a 360 to get GTA4 is what defeated the PS3.
I remember the midnight opening, the PS3 version was getting outsold 3-1. All the little chavs wanted the 360 version as the console was much cheaper.
This is why this arguement is a waste of time.
PS4 has already won as it's cheaper considerably. That its 50% better is just a bonus!