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Fighting Games Weekly | May 20-26 | MRN died so Guilty Gear could live!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
FS balance is a step down from your average VF game, but it's still pretty good. I use the worst character in the game and I'm pretty competitive despite that.
Tricky got a top-5 finish at Sega Cup with the 2nd worst character.
You can play who you want in VF, and you'll have a solid chance.
Karsticles
Member
Virtua Fighter is like a sasquatch to me. I've seen it spoken of, but I've never seen anyone play it. More people play Skullgirls, P4A, and Guilty Gear at my locals than Virtua Fighter. I've seen some videos, and it seems like balance through mundane play, which isn't what I call real balance. To me, good balancing is all about extremely diverse characters who all have a chance to win. That's why I put ASW, because their games are right up their with Marvel in terms of character diversity, but it's more balanced.
All I know is, I can't play any fighter online that isn't VF 5 FS or TTT 2. Hopefully other companies can get up to par with those guys. (and whoever else is good on that front)
The GGPO fighters (darkstlalkers/Skullgirls) and Arcsys games are pretty damn good online as well.
SC5's online seems pretty terrible- I get disconnects half the time I tried to play it this year, and massive lag at other times. TTT2 online is very good, a bit better than VF.
as for VF players- one of the reasons VF doesn't catch on is that many VF players just don't bother with other games. They're happy just playing VF. This leads to them kinda being their own thing, kinda like a smaller-scale Smash, but without the kiddie drama and social stigma.
Tallshortman
Member
Wait has there been news on whether PS3 sticks will work on PS4? Damn definitely not looking to drop money for a new stick, maybe there will be some adapters.
toddhunter
Member
I agree with this. Something like Blazblue with a billion different systems and characters is more impressive to me balance wise than a Tekken or even Street Fighter with lots of repeated character types.
Pretty sure it was confirmed that they will not work, except for the move controller.
Rice-Eater
Member
It's very unlikely but I really hope Guilty Gear Xrd can be that first next gen fighter that releases very soon after the new consoles come out so we can enjoy some of the hilarity of people trying as hard as possible to get their hands on the new consoles so they can learn the game and win before everybody else catches on. Imagine WNF with 100+ for Guilty Gear Xrd, but only like 12 guys own the game and another 30 or so have been over at those guys houses non stop trying to learn as much as possible while the rest showed up to play the new big game just for the hell of it.
That was only the controller, and that could be the case for all controllers. But no word yet on other accessories like driving wheels, headsets, or arcade sticks. USB devices have always worked on Sony systems since PS2 so I'm optimistic that they won't disable support for that. For the controller it makes sense as they're adding new features that the old controllers can't replicate. But it makes no sense for stuff like headsets or sticks that aren't used as controllers or were never meant to replicate the same experience.
That was only the controller, and that could be the case for all controllers. But no word yet on other accessories like driving wheels, headsets, or arcade sticks. USB devices have always worked on Sony systems since PS2 so I'm optimistic that they won't disable support for that. For the controller it makes sense as they're adding new features that the old controllers can't replicate. But it makes no sense for stuff like headsets or sticks that aren't used as controllers or were never meant to replicate the same experience.
PS3 controllers won't work with PS4. Pretty confident that your stick or anything else that isn't Move won't work either, especially with functionality and the buttons on the controller changing.
Nice. Thanks. Capcom is well up there for me as well. Though, I don't have much of any experience with Arc System games.
Those categories were just ideas. You can create your own other categories like best in character design, stages or even something like win poses/taunts.
I probably should have specified anyway I guess since even 2D and 3D fighters are going to vary in things like animations/graphics.
The characters in VF and in other 3D fighters are all very different from one another, although I'll admit that the differences aren't always obvious at first.
VF achieves balance largely through system mechanics and by giving every character the same basic tools as a starting point: 12-frame standing jab that's +2 on block, 12-frame low jab that beats high attacks, 14-frame mid to stuff low jab at advantage, 10-frame throws, etc. In a nutshell, all the characters use these basic tools to set up the other aspects of their arsenal that make them unique.
Karsticles
Member
Create all the categories in the world and I'll list it out!
ASW games are interesting. They feel like what Darkstalkers would have evolved into (and for good reason).
Character Design: Capcom, no doubt. I think it's extremely impressive that they added newcomers to SSFIV who already feel like classics. A SFV without C. Viper would just be weird. I don't think any other fighting game company has accomplished this ability. I don't think the visual design on any one Capcom fighting game character is bad.
Stages: I honestly never pay attention to this stuff. I can play 20-30 matches and not know what stage I'm on. That includes stream watching.
Win Poses/Taunts: I think I have to go with ASW here, because so many characters have unique introductions in BB. For all of Capcom's amazing design and animation, they have some terrible win poses (She-Hulk's man face picture, Sentinel's sad face, C. Viper's flashy uniboob).
The diversity is nothing like what a game like BlazBlue offers, though. You don't have a character who has a doppelganger to control, another who can magnetize opponents to move them around, one who can turn into an alternate form with a totally different moveset, one who can control gusts of wind to move around the screen, etc. It's mostly differences in pokes, attack strings, and frame data. It's much, much easier to balance something like that than BlazBlue.
darkblade77
Member
I'll try to be objective.
Depth is a topic that gets sorta subjective, so it's hard to find a clear winner on.
The sheer number of options you need to consider with Tekken and VF give me pause, so maybe I'd lean towards one of those developers.
Balance... Arc System Works. They have an excellent testbed ground in Japan to roll new changes out over, and while they clearly have a few character biases they haven't done anything as awful as SSF4:AE. After BBCT, Arc System Works have arguably made the games with the closest aggregate tiers for the entire gen.
Graphics is... if it's 3D, it's Bamco. If it's 2D, it's Lab Zero. I think I'd give Bamco the nod here because their stages/environments/effect work is stellar too--they have the complete package.
Animations is... My bias is screaming here; Lab Zero takes this. If I took a step back from that, it'd be a tie between Capcom and Bamco. Capcom has some amazing design/animation gems like Super Skrull in Marvel that just blow me away regarding how well they can capture a character's attitude. Bamco has an inherent advantage for their style of game because they get to show way more transition animations, and they're really good at making them.
Netcode... Lab Zero takes this, because Skullgirls has the best base implementation of GGPO right now(seeing numerical ping of your opponent, then setting your frame delay right before starting a session).
Bamco, Capcom, and Arcsys all at least clearly made various efforts this gen to tackle online latency that have been effective, though. Arcsys has probably the best version of variable-delay netcode, which they've clearly refined for some time. Capcom even runs a GGPO-style variant for SFxT, and their arcade re-ports use GGPO proper. Bamco actually uses server infrastructure to facilitate better connections, which is impressive in and of itself.
So, yeah. I'm not even a huge Namco Bandai fan outside of Banpresto's work, but I think they're the leaders of this gen.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
This might be good for a thread. Gonna try to see what categories I can come up with.
The thing that bothered me more with She-Hulk is the grammar issues in vanilla Marvel with one of her win quotes.
As far as stages, they really matter a lot more in 3D fighters than 2D fighters (due to walls, ring outs, sidestepping, etc).
But I am equally/highly impressed with stuff like the jungle stage in SSFIVAE.
Really appreciate all the detail you went into.
Yeah, this will be good for a thread.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
The woman who voices She Hulk in mvc3 played Selena Gomez's mom.
M_A_C
Member
I hope your wrong... Didn't PS2 sticks work on PS3? I forget.
Karsticles
Member
Keep in mind that "list threads" are discouraged on GAF, so when you make the thread, try and frame it within the context of discussion instead of "post your list!" I think it's good thread material, too.
I would say that stages matter in most 3D fighters than 2D ones. Smash Bros stages might matter the most due the nature of the game.
Does that get you hot?
...wat? Really?
Were there any PS2 USB sticks? PS2 USB was extremely picky about what you could plug into it. Most sticks from that gen used the PS2 controller port.
toddhunter
Member
Nope, not as far as I know.
What are the best two fighting games that represent each developer best in the aforementioned categories:
Just so I have an idea of what could be linked through youtube/gifs to represent each dev.
Capcom
Namco
Arc System Works
Sega
SNK
Tecmo
NetherRealm Studios
Nintendo
Sony
Or anyone else I'm missing.
NVM
I don't think I could really pick a favorite fighting game developer. Capcom, Namco, Sega and Arc Sys have all done a lot of amazing things in the genre, and it'd be just about impossible for me to decide whose achievements are greater.
I agree, but I don't think many games, be they 2D or 3D, really offer the blend of diversity and balance that Arc Sys games offer.
It really isn't. The characters all have the same very basic set of tools, yes, but beyond that they are all very different.
Professor Beef
Banned
She also did the voice of Hawkgirl in the Justice League cartoons, apparently!
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0133566/
Karsticles
Member
No no, it's a good thread idea. Just frame it as a discussion. Be sure to fill your own list out with a lot of discussion for people to comment on. That's all I meant.
Wow...
FindMyFarms
Member
You would say that....
DryEyeRelief
Member
Ah. I was thinking it would be good to post examples of things like animations or stage backgrounds to give people an idea of what the games from each dev offer in case they haven't played them.
Like I can post an image
or a gif
or a video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNKVGWSReuY
Rice-Eater
Member
Not sure about sticks but other USB devices like racing wheels, headsets, and mics worked. And so do many generic PC USB devices like controllers, mice, keyboards, and cameras also works on PS3. Again outside of the controller I hope Sony doesn't change their policy about this.
Karsticles
Member
I think this will just end up demonstrating your own lack of knowledge. I don't mean that to be insulting. There are tons of fighting games from various ages that have small communities few people know about, and you'll just end up giving examples that are popular today. I think it's better to let people go wild with it. My two cents.
Also, I would like to see sections on:
-Music
-Game Options
-Accessibility (for learning)
-Overall Value
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
Hawt.
LeMaximilian
Alligator F*ck House
Even Madcatz sticks don't work on PS2 games played on PS3. Had a friend bring over his gen 1 PS3 which still plays all PS2 games, and the stick wasn't supported.
You will have to purchase all new hardware and controllers for the next gen. The only company that had bi-generational controllers was Nintendo with GC controllers working on Wii, and Wii controllers working on WiiU. I guess you could also count some from PSX to PS2 as well.
You will have to purchase all new hardware and controllers for the next gen. The only company that had bi-generational controllers was Nintendo with GC controllers working on Wii, and Wii controllers working on WiiU. I guess you could also count some from PSX to PS2 as well.
Karsticles
Member
Well, at least we'll only have to buy fightsticks for one system next generation.
Always good to know.
I'll make a thread on this tomorrow probably after work unless someone else wants to. I think it can lead to good discussion on fighters.
Karsticles
Member
I look forward to it, but IMO it might not be a bad idea to sit on for another day or two. Tomorrow Microsoft is doing Q&A about the system, and the thread will drown in Xbox One news.
I hate it when I put an image/gif and it disappears b/c the site wants to save bandwith or whatever. That was a good Morrigan missile gif.
Also good to know. Excellent.
Also good to know. Excellent.
I'm probably in the minority but I have never found the appeal in video game music. Often times, I don't even hear the music because I'm too focused on playing the game. There's definitely some memorable tunes but nothing I'm too fond of.
toddhunter
Member
That depends on the games, it has less to do with 2D/3D and more to do with the exact games. A game with a high roster size, high diversity in toolset among characters is going to be harder to balance. The more the variables the more difficult to balance. UMVC3 is the hardest game to balance in particular because of the 3v3 team based play.
Karsticles
Member
The importance of the music is mostly in the pre-fight match. The windup on some MvC2 music right as the fight starts is fantastic. During the match, I agree: it's all a blur. It's really about how the music accentuates the experience during downtime.
Great song.
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
I find all fighting game music to be forgettable tbh. Only thing that stands out to me is mk2 and sf2 tracks.
It's just blah, blah background noise to me.
Music is more important in some genres than others, that's for sure. There aren't many memorable fighting game tracks, and the ones that do stick out do so because they're very good. Otherwise it's just background noise.
toddhunter
Member
I feel like going to play metal gear.
Seriously though, I can't go past SF4 with the character themes and title