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Final Fantasy composers say Final Fantasy XII Remake is coming
- Thread starter benny_a
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Still, I'd rather have a remaster with new textures, some model tweaks, text for HD displays, and some of the international improvements. LOL.
You are not alone, but people like you and me tend to sit back and watch the camps fighting each other.
But I'm thinking if each entry in the series was the same with the preview ones with little changes, and all the people either hated or loved everything, FF would be dead by now.
Since posting this bit of news today the topic has gotten almost 30 pages and all the major game blogging outlets mentioned it. If SE doesn't release it, then maybe they didn't deserve the money in the first place.
Even if that composer made a mistake SE would be crazy not to do anything about it
Even if that composer made a mistake SE would be crazy not to do anything about it
Vire
Member
I think we'll get that, I think Square has done a pretty great job overall on these remasters between FFX PS4 and the Kingdom Hearts ones... aside from the weird revisions to the faces in FFX.
Although your post has "all the major game blogging outlets" and "made a mistake" in it, it's in the wrong configuration.
Past the 16 bit era, I honestly think that 12 and Tactics are the games that hold up best in tone for a lot of people as they get older. I used to really like X, but these days I no longer appreciate what it did for me.
Curiously enough you quoted Tactics, where both games are based on Ivalice.
I think most would too. However, I think what is being argued is that this is a game that has held up surprisingly well, both in presentation and gameplay, such that it is easy to see people being content with just a plain emulator run.
Wulfric
Member
It wouldn't surprise me that Arnie Roth is privy to the goings-on at Square. What sticks out to me is what this entails for the music. If you listen to the OST, the music for XII was already high quality to begin with. I'm listening to the FLAC files from the CD right now and it still holds up. It's not like the situation with X where the synth tracks were updated due to their age.
Although I certainly wouldn't mind if Roth and Sakimoto work on some new orchestration.
Although I certainly wouldn't mind if Roth and Sakimoto work on some new orchestration.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Surely you mean for FF series? There are plenty of alternative game series with mature tone and intrigue. Even for FF, I think FFIX is quite well-written with a hint of Shakespearean.
theofficefan99
Junior Member
'Cause I haven't played it in quite a few years so I can't really go in-depth with my opinion.
Maybe once I replay it, I'll be more fond of the story. However, as of right now, it was a bland, slowly-paced plot with some pretty CGI and good dialogue here and there.
Don't get me wrong though I'm extremely excited to replay this game.
Oh, yeah. I'm just talking about FF. I'm ok with IX too, but the art style detracts from my overall appreciation of it (I felt this way even at the time it was released). It isn't as abstract as Tactics or 2d sprites, but not reflective as 12.
JoeyJungle
Banned
Hopefully after this, we'll get confirmation that Square's true PS2-era masterpiece is getting a remaster as well:
Hopefully after this, we'll get confirmation that Square's true PS2-era masterpiece is getting a remaster as well:
Bouncer remaster = yes please.
But fuck yeah FF12 remaster for now!
legacyzero
Banned
Just hope they don't mess with the models too much. Touch up some of the lower resolution textures if you need but leave those faces alone.
I remember reading a while before the game launched that they purposely went low poly in order to go for bigger worlds and better colors/textures.
So I imagine if they're going the FFX Remaster route, theyll up the polys, hopefully giving a better result than:
JimmyRustler
Member
Great news. I never played FFXII.
Cry more, bae. Your tears sustain me.
A remaster isn't going to break Square's bank like a remake of 8-9 or earlier titles past 7 were. It's that simple.
fluffydelusions
Member
Cool. BRB
DiipuSurotu
Banned
I remember reading a while before the game launched that they purposely went low poly in order to go for bigger worlds and better colors/textures.
So I imagine if they're going the FFX Remaster route, theyll up the polys, hopefully giving a better result than:
I think Matsuno's old PDD-4 team was just better at 3D modeling than Kitase's PDD-1 team. The characters have slightly fewer polygons than in FFX but the texturing work is much better quality, so it's hardly noticeable.
show me your skeleton
Member
assuming this doesn't force their hand, when could square announce this? what suitable expo is coming up? wouldn't be gamescom would it?
The Last One
Member
Well, we're talking about a 2001 game versus a 2006 one =p
Gamescom or TGS in September. Those are my guesses.
I don't know why you are continuing to insist on framing me into this narrative you have set up. 12 is neither my favorite FF nor my favorite story. It is pretty convincingly and objectively the best crafted and written in the series though. And those aren't mutual exclusive feelings to have.
And I'm sorry but you can put a vast majority of the FF characters on a list(including most of the protagonists) and most of them are superficial caricatures. They will try and shoehorn some depth into many of them(often with cliches and common story tropes) but it is typically fairly obvious and not very convincing or compelling. 12 does better then any of them at overcoming that. And had Matsuno been able to tell his story without compromise it is pretty clear that it would of been even better. Because it would of taken out even more of the problems that do exist with it. Namely Vaan.
The Praiseworthy
Member
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Aha, admittedly it's been a long time since I played either game.
Vincent Grayson
Member
Matsuno games always have incredible texture work (well, the ones involving textures, anyway). They tend to have fantastic sound design too. It definitely sticks out in FFXII compared to other FFs and PS2 titles in general.
It would be nice TBH if they would just spin Ivalice off into its own thing. A more mature, grounded fantasy series(theme and tone wise. I know Ivalice has lots of fantastical elements). A Game of Thrones to FF's Lord of the Rings so to speak.
Make it a more mid-range budget series to keep sales expectations in check.
She absolutely is. She's looking for deifacted nethicite so she can blow away the Empire. The game shows us what nethicite can do to people (a portion of the Empire's entire fleet is destroyed instanteously), and we are TOLD what it did historically with Raithwall. The very climax of her character arc is her realization that she doesn't want to be Raithwall and doesn't want to be manipulated by the Occuria.
I've said this before, and I do believe it's true-- FFXII is a much, much meatier game than any previous Final Fantasy. The dungeons are massive. FFXII's main script (not counting ancillary dialogue, the bestiary, etc) might be thinner than FFX's, but because you're going to be spelunking in dungeons for 3 hours at a time, the pace of exposition feels much slower and therefore the player feels much less of it. There's a huge chunk of time-- the walk to Archades is my favorite example-- where very little "happens" in an expository sense. I mean, a ton happens from a gameplay sense and you see a ton of beautiful things and listen to amazing music-- but this isn't at all like FFX. Seriously, how many times in FFX do you get stopped on the freaking linear Mi'hen Highroad?
I LOVE both FFX and FFXII. They are genuinely wonderful games aiming for different things. I'm still able to hold in my head the idea that FFXII's story is not as fully developed or as proudly delivered as implied in the first 5-10 hours of the game...from the rush to save Raminas to Vayne's the-game-you-like-will-never-touch-this-game-ever-and-don't-even-argue speech in Rabanstre...while still thinking it's a highly satisfying tale that at very WORST loses focus and becomes pretty standard stuff like in every other FF.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Yeah for example Matsuno said they had to degrade all the texture files in Vagrant Story because they wouldn't fit on the PS1 disc. Would love to see a Vagrant Story HD someday if this one does well.
In terms of world design, I think FFXII most reminds me of Bloodborne when I'm looking at recently released titles. There are whole zones--massive, fully developed zones with unique monsters and music-- that you don't even have to explore but really contribute to the world and its sense of wonder and uniqueness.
That Cerobi Steppe. I can't. Your fav game can't either. :tear
That Cerobi Steppe. I can't. Your fav game can't either. :tear
Vincent Grayson
Member
Yeah, I feel like even in the face of their MMOs, XII stands up as the most fully-realized world in FF history, and it feels like a place I really wanted to spend more time, too.
I don't need an FFXII-2, but another "real" game set in Ivalice would be sweet.
Yeah, that walk (understatement of 2006) was epic. It felt as if you, the player, actually lived the journey, rather than going through it via cutscenes.
I will never forget the bliss I felt when stepping into the Phon Coast.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
FFXII's approach isn't just "actually good," it's fundamentally different. The narrative almost plays sidekick to the world building, and the moment to moment storytelling has a more subtle forward momentum overall. FFX is like the opposite. It's a completely linear journey, and the world is opened up to you in very calculated doses. There's a huge difference in emphasis there.
And I felt both approaches were well executed. FFX's story is excellently paced, and as linear as it is, Spira still ends up feeling like a fantastic place. It never felt convoluted to me. Compared to other beloved games in the series, like IV, VII, and VIII, the twists and turns felt somewhere near the sweet spot between impactful and easy to absorb. I also enjoyed the characterization within the game. Tidus being a slightly annoying, naive, outgoing personality fit pretty well with the themes of the story, and his character development was successful in that it felt relatively natural. Yuna happens to probably be my favorite female protagonist in the series, as well.
FFX's faults don't really stand out to me much more than FFXII's. I love that FFXII has a more grounded, less heavy-handed story. It's not hard to see, though, that it had a conflicted development cycle. People concede that most every good thing they have to say about XII's story applies mostly to the first half, and then call it well executed. Now, it's easy enough to tolerate XII's shortcomings, and agree that overall it's a huge pleasure to go through the game. But the dip in quality is a big thing to overlook, and yet every perceived inconsistency in FFX's characterization was that jarring to you? In particular, Tidus being ignorant enough, naive enough, to not catch that Yuna would have to sacrifice herself wasn't that hard to believe. I think it's very clear that the developers were trying to tell a story about a naive young man suddenly finding himself in a new world, where this young woman's sacrifice would be one of the big revelations he has to deal with. If you have a critique of the way that was set up, it shouldn't be with the "convenience" of his ignorance, but maybe that Yuna's eventual sacrifice wasn't hidden in a way that was convincing to you.
Anyway, I'll bail from the FFX defense force now, seeing as we're straying from the part of the discussion that was relevant to FFXII. You gave a more detailed version of your opinion, so I decided I should, too.
But they did
I meant more as a true epic fantasy series companion to Final Fantasy.
Instead keeping with the tone, maturity and grounded characterizations of 12 and Vagrant Story.
yeah, pretty much this.
I would love a Skies of Arcadia esque sequel to 12 starring Baltheir and Fran and flying around in an airship being a pirate. Would be so fun. Mostly, just to get to spend more time with them.
One of the issues I had with FF12 was wishing I actually had a tank character with guard earlier in the game. It annoyed the hell out of me because it felt like it was a cheap way to make the game harder.
I've only skimmed a few pages. Anyone else annoyed by that? Is it fixed in the international version? :-/
I've only skimmed a few pages. Anyone else annoyed by that? Is it fixed in the international version? :-/
Naked Lunch
Member
I nearly had a fucking heart attack reading this thread title.
This better happen.
This better happen.
FFXII's approach isn't just "actually good," it's fundamentally different. The narrative almost plays sidekick to the world building, and the moment to moment storytelling has a more subtle forward momentum overall. FFX is like the opposite. It's a completely linear journey, and the world is opened up to you in very calculated doses. There's a huge difference in emphasis there.
And I felt both approaches were well executed. FFX's story is excellently paced, and as linear as it is, Spira still ends up feeling like a fantastic place. It never felt convoluted to me. Compared to other beloved games in the series, like IV, VII, and VIII, the twists and turns felt somewhere near the sweet spot between impactful and easy to absorb. I also enjoyed the characterization within the game. Tidus being a slightly annoying, naive, outgoing personality fit pretty well with the themes of the story, and his character development was successful in that it felt relatively natural. Yuna happens to probably be my favorite female protagonist in the series, as well.
FFX's faults don't really stand out to me much more than FFXII's. I love that FFXII has a more grounded, less heavy-handed story. It's not hard to see, though, that it had a conflicted development cycle. People concede that most every good thing they have to say about XII's story applies mostly to the first half, and then call it well executed. Now, it's easy enough to tolerate XII's shortcomings, and agree that overall it's a huge pleasure to go through the game. But the dip in quality is a big thing to overlook, and yet every perceived inconsistency in FFX's characterization was that jarring to you? In particular, Tidus being ignorant enough, naive enough, to not catch that Yuna would have to sacrifice herself wasn't that hard to believe. I think it's very clear that the developers were trying to tell a story about a naive young man suddenly finding himself in a new world, where this young woman's sacrifice would be one of the big revelations he has to deal with. If you have a critique of the way that was set up, it shouldn't be with the "convenience" of his ignorance, but maybe that Yuna's eventual sacrifice wasn't hidden in a way that was convincing to you.
Anyway, I'll bail from the FFX defense force now, seeing as we're straying from the part of the discussion that was relevant to FFXII. You gave a more detailed version of your opinion, so I decided I should, too.
Ill keep this brief to no longer derail.
My issues with FF10, beyond the shallow characters and faulty world building, were the gymnastics of logic that take place in order to give the players constant "twists" and emotional moments. Its a very poor way to tell a story IMO. Half of the big reveals and twists could of and should of logically happened in the first 20 minutes Tidus meets various characters. The entire story is an exercise in plot and character convenience to keep the player interested and keep the themes going which means lots of "we had to keep this from you for reasons" type of moments. Even when many of those secrets and events don't make much logical sense. Leaving fans having to make up rationalizations to keep the illusion of believability going. The game also fails to address some of the glaring logical holes the game has. Of which a big one kinda makes Auron, the favorite of most, quite the fucking asshole. Thats not even going into the awfulness that was some of the filler side stories.
I've wanted this all my life.
Literally since I was born in 1987. Don't ask how. It's true. Believe me.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
No Matsuno, no sale.
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