What is your definition of proof?
Why is your first thought, after hearing about a man who had a mental breakdown and got fired for being assaulted, about protecting the company that victimized him?
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Former Naughty Dog employee says he was sexually harassed by a lead in late 2015
- Thread starter chadskin
- Start date
What is your definition of proof?
Why is your first thought, after hearing about a man who had a mental breakdown and got fired for being assaulted, about protecting the company that victimized him?
That's just the tip of the iceberg. Every music exec is fuckin dirty and its only a matter of time before they're exposed
GamingPheasant
Banned
So, people are really going to take A SINGLE SERIES of tweets at face value? Sorry, this looks like someone trying to join the bandwagon, to me. This outrage culture is out-of-hand. People {"The Victim") abusing other people {"The Public") to abuse other people ("The Accused").
If he feels strongly about this, then he should get with one the the organizations that fight harassment in the workplace, and file a lawsuit. He's accusing people of wrongdoing and is using the public's outrage to get back at the accused with nothing more than his word against theirs. This doesn't make him an innocent in my eyes.
shackdaddy836
Banned
Well, you can boycott if you want, but I agree with your sentiment.
It's extremely dangerous to accuse people without evidence. Not to discredit the accuser at all, but it's really easy to just claim sexual harassment. It happens a ton, especially when an employee is on their way out already or if they feel like they are being forced out - ask anyone who works in HR. I've unfortunately had it happen to me once but, luckily, a history lookup and interview process showed that she was a serial accuser and just wanted me fired.
Just gonna give me generic response at this point.
Posts like this are exactly why men and women refuse to come forward.
AgentChris
Member
Disgusting heads better start rolling at ND and Sony for this.
StrikeFirst117
Banned
Fucking hell reading this shit makes my blood boil I really hope every company that does this shit gets exposed not matter what the industry because harassment of any kind in the workplace shouldn't be tolerated ever.
nycgamer4ever
Member
I love how someone accuses someone vaguely without naming a name and showing any proof and everyone has their pitchforks out. If just accusing someone was enough shit the workplace would be a shitshow of he said she said. I've seen situations when a terrible person/employee got away with accusing someone of this and my company caved and settle when there was no proof and I know the person was I innocent. Not saying this didn't happen but this person should have came out and confronted the person and made a case when it was happening. By staying silent your hurting yourself about possibly future victims.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Ah yes. exactly the kind of attitude loved by people being sexually harassed all around the world. I mean, who doesn't love the fact that the courage you've been building to expose something like this is immediately rewarded by "Fuck off you liar piece of shit."
Very lovely.
Astral Dog
Member
Thats why people are afraid to speak up, and companies continue to have power over individuals, sometimes they NEED the public on their side to hear them.
Heisenberg1124
Banned
I don't believe we should consider people who want proof to justify these accusations as "alt-right." It's not that difficult to falsely accuse someone of sexual harassment. Right now, all we have are a few tweets to explain the situation. I am not saying that David is lying, I just don't think we should immediately assume that it is true.
Which ones or are any heads acceptable
StrikeFirst117
Banned
Well if said person is high up on the chain then it could have some pretty disastrous consequences like being sued for libel or said person can really fuck his day.
Imagine asking for a reference at a fucking place that scarred you for life.
HR are not to be trusted as friendly to an employee because they only care about their bottom line.
vasametropolis
Member
If you're into it or welcome it, it's not harassment. Pretty easy but fine line which is why it's usually covered to death by HR.
Astral Dog
Member
Wow. WOW he says right there that he was offered 20k for his silence and didn't accept it, if its not true why don't innocent Sony/ND come and deny these outrageous accusations?
Irishonion
Member
Good Lord, brought up to HR and fired the next day, when you are victim wtf is that crap. That pisses me off.
It doesnt matter if it is an indie developer or a AAA developer or if the games continue to sell or not, the terrible actions of a few shouldnt be a reason to paint everybody else as bad. Yes people have a right to boycott them or do whatever they want, I am just pointing out that the reasoning isnt valid until we know more details and how things shakes out. if we find out everybody or the majority at nd knew and did nothing about it then I will join them in boycotting their products.
Because it is a Saturday afternoon and big companies dont react on a whim. Just to be clear, I believe the guy.
Thats a fucking disgusting attitude to have.
To people saying they are boycotting Sony and/or ND, it is your right to do so or not, dont let anyone stop you but I would suggest waiting for more information to come out. I'm not suggesting we start questioning the victim and accusing him of lying(as someone on this page has) but we do need to sit and wait for more information and also Sony's and ND's response to this situation.
Heisenberg1124
Banned
I completely agree, the accused should be investigated asap
wumster3000
Member
Its very hard to speak out about this type of thing. People like are the reason why. I will echo the poster above, for fear of getting banned, Im not going to say what I want to say to you.
I am not getting rid of my systems, but I am not going to buy another ND game, if this is true. It will be difficult for me to buy another Sony system - again, if this is true. This is really messed up.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
How is it really easy to claim sexual harassment? it happens a ton? what are you basing this on?
As far as I can tell he didn't name anyone specifically.
fluffydelusions
Member
Guess they are writing about it now
http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2017/10/14/naughty-dog-sexual-harassment-allegations-emerge/
http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2017/10/14/naughty-dog-sexual-harassment-allegations-emerge/
Strangelove77
Member
Did they end up getting dedicated servers?
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
You're asking a lot and making quick assumptions. This is the reason a lot of them don't speak out.
StrikeFirst117
Banned
Are you kidding me right now, this is to do with harassment in the workplace and all you can do is put pictures of a boycott up?
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
What is this, are you making fun of people saying they will boycott ND over this?
Is this really the response you're replying with in a thread dealing with sexual harassment? Are you feeling clever or morally superior by posting this?
wumster3000
Member
I cant believe this. Why would Sony and ND do this?
Inviusx
Member
slosherbomb
Member
We should be supporting him, some of you is the reason why people don't say these things and keep it in the dark.
Fucking anonymous people hiding behind your keyboards as you say nasty things.
Fucking anonymous people hiding behind your keyboards as you say nasty things.
shackdaddy836
Banned
Are you talking about my post? B/c I'm pretty damn left leaning. I've just unfortunately been the victim of a false accusation and know how much it can affect someone's life career wise and emotionally/mentally. I still get nightmares about it all.
I understand the accuser should be treated respectfully and seriously, however every accusation requires some type of evidence or eye-witness account, otherwise it could really harm a potentially innocent human being.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
which potentially innocent human being in this case?
Heisenberg1124
Banned
David is a completely innocent person. I dont really see him as using public outrage to get back at the person...all he did was explain his situation (albeit without a lot of proof).
Heisenberg1124
Banned
I believe hes referring to the person who David has stated had sexually harassed him...there is still a chance that this person could still be innocent.
Naughty Dog doesn't need you defending them. They're adults and can make their stance known. They can either tell us themselves that this isn't true or that they don't condone whatever happened to David.
Already been said, but people dismissing this and asking for "more proof or he's a liar" are the reason people are afraid to ever say anything and that just let's more and more people get away with this kind of shit.
Finale Fireworker
Member
The first thing I want to touch on is your use of the term "outrage culture." This is a term mostly used to delegitimize things people have reason to be upset about. "Outrage culture," like the prejorative "SJW", is a gutter term that targets anyone who challenges the status quo. In your case, you are using it to delegitimize a potential harassment victim. People do get disproportionately upset for stupid reasons: the ending of Mass Effect 3, for example. But do you really believe that people who come to the aid of a potential victim of a sex crime are part of a manufactured "outrage culture"?
I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you don't believe that.
The second thing is that coming forward when you are a harassment victim requires a great deal of support because people like you are always swift to deny their claims. Somebody coming forward in an instance like this is asking for help, or is trying to protect others, and by not believing them you are telling them they shouldn't have spoken out. You're telling them it was a mistake to stand up for themselves. You're telling them to go back where they came from because they didn't ask for help the right way.
People are supportive of people who claim to be victims of crimes because you should not assume people asking for help are lying. This is morally repugnant.
Nobody is asking for ND or Sony to do anything unreasonable. People are asking for, and waiting for, a statement. That is how these kinds of situations actually work. Somebody makes a claim and then people wait for the response. But when somebody is the potential victim of a sex crime, you do not tell them to wait until somebody has spoken on behalf of their potential abuser. You offer them your support and you wait and see what happens.
I want you to imagine you are robbed at knifepoint. They steal your money, cell phone, and keys and leave you with nowhere to go and no one to call. They also slash you in the face, leaving you bleeding.
Desperately, you go to a shopkeeper and tell them your story. Instead of inviting you in and calling the police for you, they are skeptical. They say you're probably making it up, but even if you're not, they can't be sure so they aren't going to help you.
So you go to the closest house and knock on the door. You ask for help and they say you don't seem trustworthy. You point to your face and they say it could be self inflicted. Maybe you're trying to get in the news. They are mad at you for even coming to them.
So you go to the police station. There the police ask you what happened and challenge you every step of the way. They ask why you didn't turn and run. They ask why you didn't take a cab home if you knew you had to walk home alone. They ask why you didn't come to them first if it was so serious. They tell you that they're not going to help you because you should have known better.
This is how it usually feels for victims of sexual harassment and abuse.
The absolute least you can do is listen to them.
First post is, of course, a shitbird whining about bringing politics in to gaming.
Because sexual harassment is political.
🙄🙄
superNESjoe
Member
Anecdotes are anecdotes, but three times in my life I've seen someone claim sexual harassment to try and get back at someone out of spite. It's very easy for some people to lie about stuff like that.
It hasn't made me cynical and immediately not want to believe people when it happens, but I can see how it could to others. I take the accusation very seriously, and treat the claimed assaulter with suspicion, but I do withhold judgment until I can know for sure.
Also, for what its worth I've been sexually assaulted before. I absolutely take accusations seriously, because its a serious thing and it is VERY hard to come forward about. But I don't let that cloud me from erring on caution over judgment.
Heisenberg1124
Banned
I am absolutely not totally dismissing him for asking for more proof. There must be an investigation into this case immediately, of course. I just think that we shouldnt accuse others at naughty dog apart from the individuals involved in sexually harassing David and covering it up until we see proof that other people who work at Naughty Dog are involved. Sorry if I didnt make this clear at first.
My former friend claimed sexual harassement at work. Made it up, simply wanted his manager fired since she "worked him too hard". He was successful. Bragged to me about it.
I cut all communication with him.
People do make it up unfortunately.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
The accused is an anonymous mention on twitter for now, as with the other person who came forward regarding ND.
Unless we're being overly protective for that poor big innocent game studio :|
Chris Metal
Member
So the sick actions of one person against another in a team of 300 odd is enough to make you not support the rest of the ND teams hard work and go on a boycott? Hmm plenty of fucked up logic in this thread bastardizing the entirety of ND by the actions of one... The Sony HR team who dealt with this can be held more accountable but the whole of Sony? No, I would not grab pitchforks to them as different departments have different HR.
This is an issue bigger than Sony as a company in an industry rife with sexual harassment that needs to be addressed. If you guys think that companies like MS, Nintendo, Ubisoft, EA don't have these problems... Wellll. Only now is anyone getting attention coming forward due to the Weinstein case getting tons of media coverage.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Why would he make this up to explain why he left ND? It would do more damage to him if this was all a lie considering he went into detail on what Sony's HR did.