Vestal
Gold Member
Did they state otherwise? Do we have any evidence of that? If not, we are working on the information we have. Info which states that Disc Based games can be resold..
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Forza 5 will require a day 1 free DLC download
- Thread starter Megasoum
- Start date
Did they state otherwise? Do we have any evidence of that? If not, we are working on the information we have. Info which states that Disc Based games can be resold..
edit: right, they didn't. I thought you had information. and there is reason enough for gamers to be concerned with a company that sets the stage for draconian drm on its customers, to benefit only the publishers and developers.. everyone was on board until neogaf spoke up.
that hasn't gone away, it wasn't just a brain fart. it's the direction they want to go.
some people, understand that.
that hasn't gone away, it wasn't just a brain fart. it's the direction they want to go.
some people, understand that.
sechsterangriff
Member
Having a mandatory log in and patch only to be able to play is still a form of DRM, only not as draconian as before (and hopefully not a purpose but an unfortunate consequence of the development process).
So I wonder what they'll actually be able to list on the packaging if it's not on the disc. If they list all of the stuff that's only available after the download would they hit some state "merchantability laws" regarding the physical game sold at the store?
Seems like some Walenda legal tight rope walking to make this one work.
Seems like some Walenda legal tight rope walking to make this one work.
You're a fool of you think that this isn't some form of digital rights management. You need to download digital content to be able to exercise your right to pay the game you bought at retail.
I agree with you for the most part. There is however a benefit (for customers wanting to get forza on launch), which is that the customers get the game in a timely manner, while still leaving enough time for the development team to wrap up the game.
Delaying a game that's not on track to make launch is apparently so totally last gen.
BTW, what will happen with QA, certification, all of that? They say
They also explain the additional "content" is required to play the game. What is going to be certified? Only what's on the disc? How does that work if what's on the disc is not self-contained and not playable as is? What about the stuff in the "update," will that bypass the certification process entirely? Getting curious as to how this whole process works.
Ravensmash
Member
"Online connectivity required upon initial start up".
Is this that different from PC retail titles that simply force a download through Steam?
If everyone can log in and download the patch from any account /console it's not DRM. It's just a shitty way to release your game.
I also noticed that, but given what I understand of Dan's blahblah over the years, I took "login" as "connect".
IF you are right though, and IF what Dan is doing in that interview is trying to sweetalk a kind of DRM, that would instantly make him
I dont think that's the case though.
For your assumption to be correct, I guess "login" would mean specifically signing in with your account, and tie the -whatever- dlc or game executable to that xbox live account or that machine only.
I understand correctly Chobel?
What unbelievable FUD.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
One time, then never again. If it's meant to be DRM it's pretty poor DRM.
Do you even understand what DRM stands for?
CyberChulo
Member
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Do you?
Pinging the Internet one time upon purchase shows you bought the game, sure. It also allows them to fix things they built in when the One itself had the 24 hour check. If you want to be extremely pessimistic then sure, it's one small form of DRM. If you want to be logical it's there to help remove things built in when the One had a check in and is there to add final bits to a game that needs to hit launch. Whether that's a good idea is another topic entirely.
sechsterangriff
Member
Dude, it's only FUD depending on your expectations for the useful life of the game. Software eventually ceases to be supported (with maybe the exception of critical systems) and that's how it is. Some people like to collect games and know they will work as long as they have a working system to play them.
Chobel
Member
I stated this before and I'll repeat it again: I don't think his is form of DRM, it's more like microsoft fucked T10 and now they're doing their best (or worst) to make the game available at launch.
In that post I was referring to why people here in GAF believe it's a DRM.
lifa-cobex
Member
Its quite possible. It might well be that they feel pressured into releasing it early.
But I'm looking at the track record here. Something seems odd.
Why should Turn 10 feel pressured? There games are great and I'm sure they will sell. Something about this just feels wrong.
Hey I might well be wrong but like I said, I'm going from the recent history here.
Corleth the Fey
Member
Hahaha. Why can't they remove it now? Hahaha.
There of course is one simple solution for all of this.
Buy GT6.
If enough people do this, perhaps Turn Ten will make a game that you can just put in your system and play straight away (I know to some that this may be a radical idea).
Also it would send a message to Microsoft that says 'Stop being Ballmers'.
NB:
*I do like Forza.
*I own a 360 -and the replacement 360 that all MK1 360 owners had to purchase ... wait a minute, was RROD just a form of enforcing mandatory purchase after all?
Buy GT6.
If enough people do this, perhaps Turn Ten will make a game that you can just put in your system and play straight away (I know to some that this may be a radical idea).
Also it would send a message to Microsoft that says 'Stop being Ballmers'.
NB:
*I do like Forza.
*I own a 360 -and the replacement 360 that all MK1 360 owners had to purchase ... wait a minute, was RROD just a form of enforcing mandatory purchase after all?
Ravensmash
Member
Sure, it'll sell but there's a lot of incentive for your title to be one of those launch titles, to be one of those games that people pick up alongside their new console on day one.
To be aiming for launch and then get relegated to a few months after must be pretty disheartening to the team that have been pushing it as a showcase of the system. This is a way round that issue.
Don't brother. People just want to hop on the MS is evil and everything is stealth DRM train even though they don't seem to know what DRM actually is.
Corleth the Fey
Member
lifa-cobex
Member
I agree with you for the most part. There is however a benefit (for customers wanting to get forza on launch), which is that the customers get the game in a timely manner, while still leaving enough time for the development team to wrap up the game.
Delaying a game that's not on track to make launch is apparently so totally last gen.
BTW, what will happen with QA, certification, all of that? They say
Just trying to step back and look at the big picture of MS.
Looking at everything that has happened with them in such a small amount of time.
This Forza thing seems to fit in the pattern here.
I honestly hope something does get cleared up here. However as most people know, MS aren't exactly truthful on the whole explanation thing atm.
Vestal
Gold Member
Do you?
From the wiki
So from this definition considering you already need an Internet connection to Download a Day 1 Patch for the xbone, how is asking for a 1 time download any sort of DRM?
I don't understand why they just simply don't stick with the reason instead of padding it with bullshit statements? Turn 10 could literally just say "Our bad. We're working on a tight deadline so please accept this work-around." Just drop the PR nonsense. Gamers aren't morons.
It's a pain in the ass, but it's not DRM.
CyberChulo
Member
Exactly. The whole point of MS removing DRM is to be able to play offline. Now we have the XBO with a one time connection to start up and also another connection to get the rest of the game from an incomplete disc that you are paying $60 for.
"Basically, in order to have Forza 5 available at launch, Turn 10 will be pressing incomplete discs in such a way that it will have the extra month or so to keep working on the game, allowing users to immediately download the rest of the game at launch. "
http://www.destructoid.com/you-ll-n...&utm_campaign=Feed:+Destructoid+(Destructoid)
Bothers me not. My 360 is always online anyway, none of this connectivity stuff bothers me. If my internet is down I read. I can imagine this is troublesome to a segment of the population without internet, just as it bothers me that they are starting to phase out the optical out ports, as my receiver has no HDMI. I will either have to simply hate on the console makers and boycott, or work to buy a new receiver.
Whatever..
Whatever..
you can just give your copy of Forza 5 to another person.. and he can download the same day one patch.. that´s not DRM..
Vestal
Gold Member
You didn't just ask this did you?
A CD-Key ties a game to your Account, you can no longer trade it or sell it.. How in the world is going online to download a patch = using a CD-Key?
sechsterangriff
Member
it's been verified by t10 that you can give your copy of fm5 to someone else, and they can download the day one patch?
lifa-cobex
Member
Sure I agree It does need to be released with the X1. It will help move consols.
But if it is a timing thing with MS competing with Sony, I would say theres something wrong here.
The X1 should be standing on its own ground to sell here. I should be excited about buying one on it's own merit. PS2- omg dvd player. PS3- omg blu ray player.
Now the ps4 has this problem too (btw this is just my op).
No new magical features. However the future support from developers can not be denied. Sony seem to have their heads screwed on this time around and are pushing the fact that a gaming console is for gamers.
MS just seem to be throwing policies around to confuse and enrage its consumers.
you can't play a game without a cd key.
you can't play forza5 without connecting to your account.
what is the difference between cd drm, and this quasi drm, if you can't play the game you purchased at retail?
This . If anyone can borrow it download and play .. It's just an annoyingly large patch I guess . Its something the devs had to do due to all the changes in policy etc
But if not well xboxone drm drama continues
pop corn time
Vestal
Gold Member
How is requiring to download a patch in some way infringing your rights to the content? DRM is a nice word for Copy Protection.
Its been verified by Microsoft who owns Turn 10.
GitarooMan
Member
Because you can still trade it, sell it, or give it away after you use it, unlike with a CD-Key?
Vestal
Gold Member
Wow..
Without a CD-Key your game disc is completely and totally useless, its a coaster. In the case of Forza 5, your game disc is basically your CD-Key. Now given that you own a console that REQUIRED AN INTERNET CONNECTION to work, its not far fetched to assume that you can connect online and download a patch for the game.
when did Microsoft address turn 10's day one patch & trading guidelines?
Because cd drm would connect that cd key to your account. With this, you can give the disk to your friend and he can play it after it automatically downloads the extra content.
There are varying degrees to DRM. They are not equal.
Vestal
Gold Member
When they did the 180 on Retail Discs.
Reading almost every post in here I can come to only one conclusion: many of you don't have an internet connection. How you are able to post on Neogaf is another mystery.
They can release it on the same day the Xbone comes out + a download. Or you had to wait for the game after the release of Xbone.
don't see the big deal.
Also some of you make it sound as if you have never downloaded anything to your consoles?? well get used to it, cause I am 100% sure that games like GTAV will have to install something onto he disc( installing, downloading same thing to me)
They can release it on the same day the Xbone comes out + a download. Or you had to wait for the game after the release of Xbone.
don't see the big deal.
Also some of you make it sound as if you have never downloaded anything to your consoles?? well get used to it, cause I am 100% sure that games like GTAV will have to install something onto he disc( installing, downloading same thing to me)
without a cdkey, a game is useless.
without the day one patch, the game is useless.
but we are on the same page, as you're aware that fm5 is basically a cdkey.
a Patch/DLC can be downloaded by anyone... what are you trying to say here..? are you suggesting that the FREE day one DLC/Patch is only possible to download once for each copy of the game..? if so. then YES that post was made by aliens.
Not this bullshit again, please. Consoles and Steam are NOTHING alike.
Yellowflashdude
Member
Okay, I laughed at 'free dlc' written on the thread title. You mean the 'free' stuff which you should have already gotten on the full priced disc you paid?
Vestal
Gold Member
A cdkey and a day one patch are no were in the vicinity of being even remotely the same thing.
Nope not on the same page.. All retail discs are DRM. They prevent you from copying games.
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