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[BibiMaghoo]

This would inconvenience me as I have a poor internet connection, and so would not be able to play for several hours after buying the game, depending on the size of the patch.

However, this is no move inconvenient than any other day 1 patch, on any other game. At least these guys have been honest about why it is happening and giving warning of it, which is much, much more than some other devs and publishers bother to do.

I see no issue with it beyond existing issues of patching any game when you buy it day 1. It is an irritation only for those with poor connections.

I guess the difference here is that people with no connection at all will not be able to play the game until they take it somewhere to patch it, but that applies to the console itself, so they should be prepared for that if buying one.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

21 pages of arguing this is literally embarrassing.

Edit: 22!

 

[op_ivy]

This would inconvenience me as I have a poor internet connection, and so would not be able to play for several hours after buying the game, depending on the size of the patch.

FYI, you can play while it downloads the "patch"

 

[Fistwell]

"You’ll need to download the rest of it from Xbox Live (which should be possible to occur as you play, Greenawalt clarified)."

Right from the OP.

Yeah, you "need to download the rest." That's my point.

i think you are right.

dan does say in the article though that once logged in, you can then play the game as the remaining content is downloaded, which is where the confusion comes from.

Yah indeed, I can see that...

 

[SeanR1221]

11 pages, get with the times and change to 100 per page

Never. I find that to be too many posts per page

 

[Senor Kami]

My PS3 is hooked up to the 65" LED TV we have in our living room, it's nowhere near a router or wired access point. It works fine because the PS3 has built in wifi.

Guess what happens when I plug my 360 into that TV? I have to play offline. And it works.

Is it really hard to imagine someone in my situation but without a decent wifi connection? Setting up wifi is a mystery to people.

Don't make bullshit assumptions.

So for you, as long as the device has wi-fi, everything is perfectly fine. X1 has wi-fi, problem solved.

I'd also argue that anyone too dumb to setup a wi-fi network (this is literally plugging a cable into something and letting the device and your computer do the rest) probably isn't interested in next-gen gaming and even if the were, a NES controller is probably too difficult of a device for them to use.

Seriously though, who are these people that want to jump into next gen gaming but are so technologically adverse that following a 4 step quick guide that comes with their router or modem is mission impossible?

Ah the always standard "b, bu, but the future!".
Newflash : the future in consumer electronic is determined by the customers.
If the customers deem the xbone unworthy, it'll have to change or disappear.
MSFT saw Zune as the future once, see where that lead them.

And which game as the most popular games are online only exactly?
Minecraft? TLoU? Halo? Mario? CoD?

You seriosuly think the internet is a fad and that we've either hit the peak of integrating it into devices or are actually declining? Name any statistic or even anecdotal evidence that would suggest that.

LOL @ the games you've mentioned. The only ones that have a user base that could possibly competes with the games I'm talking about are CoD and Minecraft (a game you need to internet get on it's most popular platform). I'm talking about games like League of Legends that have 50+ million users, not Last of Us which hasn't and will probably never hit double digit millions of players.

 

[professor_t]

Pretty sure it's at least 75% of NeoGAF. We should really organize a money-raising benefit for them.

Actually, 84% of NeoGAF members have never even *seen* a computer. Only three members, at present, have an internet connection, and all of them are powered by a hamster on a wheel connected to a turbine.

Joking aside, I'm sure there are some people who are legitimately screwed over by this news. I bet that the amount of noise being made by these people far outweighs their proportional representation in the population, but I can understand why they're upset. If I had bandwidth caps, I'd be pissed, too.

And the sad truth is, MS probably doesn't care about alienating these people. They won't lose a lot of money because of them, and they'll probably make even greater sums of additional money from the people being catered to. It's business. Shitty business for some folks, but business just the same.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

100 posts per page - MIND BLOWN!

Best thread ever!

 

[LCfiner]

But it was obvious why they had the check in. When you have all of your games (Retail or digital) tied to your online account, in order to support trade ins, lending, etc (Something no digital service currently offers) you have to have a way to check if the game is still tied to that account otherwise people would be able to take advantage of that time lapse and could potentially keep a game after trading it in.

Most people just couldn't understand that and freaked out. Just like an iPad is useless without internet (Whether internet on the device itself or the computer that you connect it to) the XB1 was the same.

Actually, the XB1 now, after the 180, is more like the iPad and iOS. before the 180, it was much more strict.

After the iPad is setup once and your apps downloaded, you never need to get online again. There is no online check in, as there was with the old XB1 system.

You can install apps from your account on a number of devices and then you can logoff of those other devices and the other users can login and still use your apps. MS never had that system in place. You had to be online and logged into your account on secondary consoles for your game library to work.

A big reason why no one complains about iOS app DRM is because it almost never gets in your way. you can move apps to new devices, you can install them on multiple devices, you do not need to be online for apps that don't need the internet.

The XB1 was much worse than that, hence the freak out.

 

[Ravensmash]

Yeah, you "need to download the rest." That's my point.


Yah indeed, I can see that...

Then wait until a later pressing comes out. I dont think this warrants so much outrage.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

FYI, you can play while it downloads the "patch"

That's true, but there will be limitations to that, a certain amount will surely have to be downloaded first for that to work, assuming the content is as vital as they make it out to be.

 

[professor_t]

That's PC. Physical is usually cheaper for consoles, but PSN and Xbox Live are starting to change that over the last 6 months or so.

Fair enough. Looking at gaming in general, digital can be much, much cheaper, but the rule doesn't hold with consoles. It should, as you say, change. The absence of physical production costs *should* make it cheaper.

Anyway, getting off track . . .

 

[Fistwell]

Then wait until a later pressing comes out. I dont think this warrants so much outrage.

I'm not outraged, mainly amused. Are we not allowed to discuss this?

Edit: oh I see we're back to the "microsoft invented hard-drives on consoles" argument from a cple of days ago, how quaint.

 

[CouldBeWorse]

And that's one of the reasons why I liked gaming before Microsoft came along & would love for Microsoft to get out of the gaming industry & to be replaced with another competitor. Heck, I would rather have Sega back in the hardware business, & both the Sega Genesis/Mega Drive & Dreamcast were good systems.

Microsoft's the devil of the gaming industry & have done nothing good for gamers. Pushing people to pay for online multiplayer, getting them to accept DRM, etc. It's ridiculous.

I really hate to get sucked in to this, but Microsoft has done a ton of good to modernize gaming and has forced Sony (but not stubborn Nintendo) to play catch up for the last 12 years. Many of the things that you love about your PS3 and will love about your PS4 are there because of Microsoft. To deny that is a special kind of ignorance (or crazy).

Here is a small sampling of areas where Microsoft was the clear market leader:

1. Standardized online gaming service across all titles
2. Standardized online gaming identity
3. Hard drive inclusion and all of its benefits
4. Console UI design and wholesale refreshes
5. Demos for every XBLA game (and many/most retail games)
6. Providing standardized tools and interfaces for developers
7. Parental controls
8. Cross-game chat, invites
9. Achievements
10. Gaming identity portability
11. Console apps
12. Microsoft has thrown a ton of money at developers over the past 13 years, resulting in some great products from around the globe (including from Sega)
13. XNA
14. Broadband usage
15. Unified friends lists

And many more...

The problem for Microsoft is that a lot of their past good has been forgotten as Sony caught up with (and even surpassed) Microsoft in a few key areas (including developer relations and independent publishing) while Microsoft got stagnant, leaned on Kinect, lost their edge, and cut indie funding just as the indie movement was getting bigger. Sure, they bet on a few (very successful) horses like Minecraft, State of Decay, and the upcoming World of Tanks, but they fundamentally fail to understand the scene.

 

[bj00rn_]

Except it's not

I was asking a rhetorical question about if the vocal complainers about Forza 5 run their Gran Turismo 5 game completely offline and unpatched (minus the 4225MB of patches). It's a valid question for many good reasons.

May I remind people that if you go online with any 360 game, patching the game is mandatory (or you will be logged out of Xbox Live), and has been like that for years.

"[mandatory to patch it online] which, according to Greenawalt, will be possible as you play"
"[mandatory to patch it online] which, according to Greenawalt, will be possible as you play"
"[mandatory to patch it online] which, according to Greenawalt, will be possible as you play"

link

 

[Storm360]

It took me 11 hours the other day to download a 2.7gb game from Steam, I get even slower downloads from Xbox LIVE, the MGS HD collection took me two days to download

Yeah. Fuck you MS for forcing this onto consoles

 

[weekend_warrior]

Maybe Turn-10 will release a new mandatory patch every 24 hours too, for the benefit of the customer of course.

 

[op_ivy]

Maybe Turn-10 will release a new mandatory patch every 24 hours too, for the benefit of the customer of course.

maybe!

 

[Klocker]

dude, I can post on forums from my phone over 3G, doesn't mean I would want to tether and download multiple gigs on it.

When I lived away from home for a few years I had the worst of the worst internet, it was always slow and only just about worked with youtube, I had stupid small daily caps because I was in a shared 10 story student building and had to pay an arm and a leg for it, back then my 360 was offline for a good 6 months until I worked out a way to get it online through my pc and downloading one single forza 2 track took all my internet up for the day plus more, and took multiple hours to do so.

So saying that posting here means the patch would not effect you is bullshit.

Yea... did they say it would be gigs of info? And even if it is... you know this whole "internet" thing is so overblown.

Every device in the world today is internet connected most of them all the time so the argument is dated, and negative. Not really rational.

As m0dus said... don't buy it if you don't have internet.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

It took me 11 hours the other day to download a 2.7gb game from Steam, I get even slower downloads from Xbox LIVE, the MGS HD collection took me two days to download

Yeah. Fuck you MS for forcing this onto consoles

Good thing you can play while downloading. Also, Steam sale is messing with your downloads. Switch your download server location.

 

[lifa-cobex]

I really hate to get sucked in to this, but Microsoft has done a ton of good to modernize gaming and has forced Sony (but not stubborn Microsoft) to play catch up for the last 12 years. Many of the things that you love about your PS3 and will love about your PS4 are there because of Microsoft. To deny that is a special kind of ignorance (or crazy).


The problem for Microsoft is that a lot of their past good has been forgotten as Sony caught up with (and even surpassed) Microsoft in a few key areas (including developer relations and independent publishing) while Microsoft got stagnant, leaned on Kinect, lost their edge, and cut indie funding just as the indie movement was getting bigger. Sure, they bet on a few (very successful) horses like Minecraft, State of Decay, and the upcoming World of Tanks, but they fundamentally fail to understand the scene.

Good post.
It's really odd. MS were doing fantastic. It was the cheaper console out the two. They were really on the ball with many things (obviously also having blunders like rrod) but imo were always in front in terms of the 360 being for gamers.
I always favored my PS3 as I'm a sucker for tech and I love my blu ray player. Plus I just preferred the games that were ps3 only too.

This gen seems to be an ultimate fuck up for the MS heads. The only defending arguments I have come to validate and (to a point) agree with are coming from the fans and not MS themselves.

 

[Storm360]

Good thing you can play while downloading. Also, Steam sale is messing with your downloads. Switch your download server location.

It's my connection, I have worse speeds on XBL than I do with steam sales, and I imagine depending on size of the game, I could very easily "outplay" the download

 

[Teletraan1]

Then wait until a later pressing comes out. I dont think this warrants so much outrage.

Can you link where anyone has confirmed that this later pressing will actually exist? I read the OP and even went to IGN and nowhere was this even hinted at other than a few hopeful people in this thread. Was it a random tweet in the thread? If so can it be put in the OP.

I love how you have to be wearing a Tinfoil hat if you even suggest this game wont work in 20 years but theories like this Forza 5: Internet Poors Edition second pressing have become a talking point.

 

[AzerPhire]

Actually, the XB1 now, after the 180, is more like the iPad and iOS. before the 180, it was much more strict.

After the iPad is setup once and your apps downloaded, you never need to get online again. There is no online check in, as there was with the old XB1 system.

You can install apps from your account on a number of devices and then you can logoff of those other devices and the other users can login and still use your apps. MS never had that system in place. You had to be online and logged into your account on secondary consoles for your game library to work.

A big reason why no one complains about iOS app DRM is because it almost never gets in your way. you can move apps to new devices, you can install them on multiple devices, you do not need to be online for apps that don't need the internet.

The XB1 was much worse than that, hence the freak out.

I was comparing the two in the sense that internet is a requirement to get the full use of the device, not the check in process. You need to have internet to obtain apps whether on the iPad itself or on the computer you connect it to. Without the internet the device is all but useless.

 

[Jac_Solar]

I honestly think we won't see this again after launch and it might just be this one single title as this is a rush for launch issue imo, we don't know yet. Now for some online only games (destiny, titanfall, mmo's, etc.) it's a different story, but I think this will almost be a one off and people are freaking out for no reason. No one is forcing you to buy this game, wait for the "GOTY or Special Edition" or just reprint that comes out after with everything on the disc... yes that's not guaranteed to happen, but I'd peg it as almost a guarantee.

What they said is probably true, but I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually started selling slightly cheaper digital versions of the game along with the physical versions. Like, you can buy a cheaper digital version of Forza, which lets you download all the assets. Since it's already set up and ready to go, why not?

If so, I don't think they would release a compilation version for a good while - if there's demand for it on Microsofts store, I doubt Microsoft would let them include it on a disc.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

It's my connection, I have worse speeds on XBL than I do with steam sales, and I imagine depending on size of the game, I could very easily "outplay" the download

DSL or something? Might want to consider switching ISPs or upgrading your speed if that's the case. Whichever console you play this gen will suck with a bad internet connection, though. I imagine with Forza they would prioritize the early game stuff first, though, so it still probably wouldn't take to long.

 

[Storm360]

DSL or something? Might want to consider switching ISPs or upgrading your speed if that's the case. Whichever console you play this gen will suck with a bad internet connection, though. I imagine with Forza they would prioritize the early game stuff first, though, so it still probably wouldn't take to long.

Best I can get in my area, its typically fine in the early morning (1am to 6am) or during the day depending on time, but still, I shouldn't need to plan when to leave my console on to play a offline game, and shouldn't need to worry about this effecting me as i'm playing the game

 

[Fantastical]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=624121

Of course you buy digital on PC. That's pretty much all there is now. Even physical boxes come with Steam codes.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Best I can get in my area, its typically fine in the early morning (1am to 6am) or during the day depending on time, but still, I shouldn't need to plan when to leave my console on to play a offline game, and shouldn't need to worry about this effecting me as i'm playing the game

This gen will be bad for you.

 

[Biker19]

Never. I find that to be too many posts per page

Why not? It's very useful, especially when there are usually thousands of posts in nearly every thread.

 

[Ravensmash]

Can you link where anyone has confirmed that this later pressing will actually exist? I read the OP and even went to IGN and nowhere was this even hinted at other than a few hopeful people in this thread. Was it a random tweet in the thread? If so can it be put in the OP.

I love how you have to be wearing a Tinfoil hat if you even suggest this game wont work in 20 years but theories like this Forza 5: Internet Poors Edition second pressing have become a talking point.

More like logical step. I don't see a reason why later pressings wouldn't include it, if we're going by Turn 10's justification.

 

[Storm360]

This gen will be bad for you.

Yup, hence why I am against always online gaming, shame, since I loved the look of The Division at E3

I hope this doesn't become too mandatory, I was planning on picking up a Xbox One in a few years

 

[Biker19]

I really hate to get sucked in to this, but Microsoft has done a ton of good to modernize gaming and has forced Sony (but not stubborn Microsoft) to play catch up for the last 12 years. Many of the things that you love about your PS3 and will love about your PS4 are there because of Microsoft. To deny that is a special kind of ignorance (or crazy).

Here is a small sampling of areas where Microsoft was the clear market leader:

1. Standardized online gaming service across all titles
2. Standardized online gaming identity
3. Hard drive inclusion and all of its benefits
4. Console UI design and wholesale refreshes
5. Demos for every XBLA game (and many/most retail games)
6. Providing standardized tools and interfaces for developers
7. Parental controls
8. Cross-game chat, invites
9. Achievements
10. Gaming identity portability
11. Console apps
12. Microsoft has thrown a ton of money at developers over the past 13 years, resulting in some great products from around the globe (including from Sega)
13. XNA
14. Broadband usage
15. Unified friends lists

And many more...

The problem for Microsoft is that a lot of their past good has been forgotten as Sony caught up with (and even surpassed) Microsoft in a few key areas (including developer relations and independent publishing) while Microsoft got stagnant, leaned on Kinect, lost their edge, and cut indie funding just as the indie movement was getting bigger. Sure, they bet on a few (very successful) horses like Minecraft, State of Decay, and the upcoming World of Tanks, but they fundamentally fail to understand the scene.

I would have to agree with you on this, but there's certainly no reason to do what they did with the Xbox One by having them accept DRM & always online play, etc, especially for those that either don't have internet at all or have poor internet speeds, along with having bandwidth caps, etc. No reason to have that kind of stuff on consoles.

Companies like Microsoft (as well as other 3rd party publishers) can easily find other ways to make money without punishing consumers.

 

[sechsterangriff]

I was asking a rhetorical question about if the vocal complainers about Forza 5 run their Gran Turismo 5 game completely offline and unpatched (minus the 4225MB of patches). It's a valid question for many good reasons.

May I remind people that if you go online with any 360 game, patching the game is mandatory (or you will be logged out of Xbox Live), and has been like that for years.

"[mandatory to patch it online] which, according to Greenawalt, will be possible as you play"
"[mandatory to patch it online] which, according to Greenawalt, will be possible as you play"
"[mandatory to patch it online] which, according to Greenawalt, will be possible as you play"

link

It's a valid question indeed, but doesn't have much to do with the fact that GT5 and 360 games work out of the box off-line and Forza 5 does not.

 

[BigDug13]

And the sad truth is, MS probably doesn't care about alienating these people. They won't lose a lot of money because of them, and they'll probably make even greater sums of additional money from the people being catered to. It's business. Shitty business for some folks, but business just the same.

While this is true, negative PR has an impact and if it appears that you are up to shenanigans as a company, it's not good for your mindshare. All of these little tidbits of bullshit individually may not be a big deal as reflected by the defense posts in each individual thread of bad news. But taken as a whole as the bad news continues to filter out, it continues to damage your brand.

Just the thought that your product is attempting to alienate certain consumers while your competition's less expensive device is not is a bad spot for MS to be in, and if they can't get their shit together to stop the negative news, then their brand will continue to be damaged.

 

[CouldBeWorse]

I would have to agree with you on this, but there's certainly no reason to do what they did with the Xbox One by having them accept DRM & always online play, etc, especially for those that either don't have internet at all or have poor internet speeds, along with having bandwidth caps, etc. No reason to have that kind of stuff on consoles.

Well, they ultimately didn't do it so it's not in your consoles.

 

[Woggerman]

The XB1 needs a patch before you can use it. Just start Forza 5 right after it. Done. Let's move on.

 

[Bigmac1910]

To summarize, this is almost as bad as the always online DRM, simply because once the servers shut down, unless you already have Forza 5 installed with the patch, you won't be able to play it. I hope that people are correct that it's only because it's a launch title and it will never happen again. But if this will become the norm, then I won't buy the Xbone.

 

[chris0701]

To summarize, this is almost as bad as the always online DRM, simply because once the servers shut down, unless you already have Forza 5 installed with the patch, you won't be able to play it. I hope that people are correct that it's only because it's a launch title and it will never happen again. But if this will become the norm, then I won't buy the Xbone.

False logic. Try hard next time.
Why MS need to turn off the server ? Has the Xbox 360 game patch server ever been shut down ?

FYI, if the Day 1 DLC are Sony games, you should have some concern.
I only remember some PS3 games MP server were turn off (i.e MGO), so people who bought MGO disc can't play this game forever.

 

[DuckRacer]

So I can't play Forza 5 when I'm 60 after they shut down the patch servers? Fucking M$

 

[Bigmac1910]

False logic. Try hard next time.
Why MS need to turn off the server ? Has the Xbox 360 game patch server ever been shut down ?

FYI, if the Day 1 DLC are Sony games, you should have some concern.
I only remember some PS3 games MP server were turn off (i.e MGO), so people who bought MGO disc can't play this game forever.

What false logic? Nothing lasts forever, you don't if/when MS might pull out of the console business. Also, I'm only talking about the single player portion, not multiplayer.

 

[chris0701]

So I can't play Forza 5 when I'm 60 after they shut down the patch servers? Fucking M$

Xbox one will broken after 30 years, FYI. LoL

Because HDMI will be deprecated.

 

[Bigmac1910]

So I can't play Forza 5 when I'm 60 after they shut down the patch servers? Fucking M$

People still play Mario on the NES, 30 years later, why not Forza 5? (Single player)

 

[sechsterangriff]

False logic. Try hard next time.
Why MS need to turn off the server ? Has the Xbox 360 game patch server ever been shut down ?

No, but the original Xbox servers have.

FYI, if the Day 1 DLC are Sony games, you should have some concern.
I only remember some PS3 games MP server were turn off (i.e MGO), so people who bought MGO disc can't play this game forever.

People sort of expect that to happen to multi-player only games with dedicated servers.
Also MGO was included in MGS4.

 

[BigDug13]

People still play Mario on the NES, 30 years later, why not Forza 5? (Single player)

Most people who play Mario are playing it on one of the later devices that Nintendo charged them $5 on to rebuy a game they already bought once.

 

[Bigmac1910]

Most people who play Mario are playing it on one of the later devices that Nintendo charged them $5 on to rebuy a game they already bought once.

Maybe, but my understanding is that there are plenty of collectors of NES consoles and games, why should it be necessary for them to re-buy it again if they already own it?

 

[chris0701]

What false logic? Nothing lasts forever, you don't if/when MS might pull out of the console business. Also, I'm only talking about the single player portion, not multiplayer.

Since you claim nothing will last forever, there is no difference between SP or MP portion.
You bought it but got nothing because they do not let you play anymore.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Maybe, but my understanding is that there are plenty of collectors of NES consoles and games, why should it be necessary for them to re-buy it again if they already own it?

It'll make the Xbox One consoles with an existing patched version worth TONS of money. Shit... people better get in on this now.

 

[HoodWinked]

so this is like Gran Turismo 5?

 

[Demon Ice]

meaning you have your ps3 hooked up to the wifi?

Huh? My PS3 uses wifi, yes. No wired connection nearby.