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Forza Motorsport 6 Announced for Xbox One

S

Shaneus

Member
Bessy67 said:
I'm guessing not so great CGI. Something about the animations just looks off.
Click to expand...
I'm inclined to think it's from the FM6 engine. Obviously rendered on something not a One but definitely using their tools, I think. It has that same slightly off/plasticy look that Forza sometimes has (it was at it's worst in FM4. Looked great, but especially during Autovista the cars looked plasticy. My brother made that comment when he first saw it, now can't unsee).
 
G

G Rom

Member
Video makes me think of an animated version of this :
forza-motorsport-4-ferrari-458-italia-68671.jpg
 
C

c0de

Member
Shaneus said:
I'm inclined to think it's from the FM6 engine. Obviously rendered on something not a One but definitely using their tools, I think. It has that same slightly off/plasticy look that Forza sometimes has (it was at it's worst in FM4. Looked great, but especially during Autovista the cars looked plasticy. My brother made that comment when he first saw it, now can't unsee).
Click to expand...

Yeah, comparing Forza to GT shows that Forza is (intentionally?) not pushing to realism in the most realistic way. Sure, it looks somehow realistic but both colors and shading are too different to look like it "should" look to make it comparable to GT.
 
Caayn

Caayn

Member
ShamePain said:
I think driveclub matches this obviously rendered bullshot, with self reflections and all.
Click to expand...
Disagree, the textures and the texture filtering is much worse in DriveClub, the environment has a much lower poly count in DriveClub, the IQ in DriveClub isn't as clean. There are many things in that picture that are better than in DriveClub, not that strange when you consider one is pre-rendered and the other is realtime.
 
D

DivineRage002

Member
I guess this is as good a place as any to put my FM6 wishlist:

Rain/changeable weather
Night racing/24 hour clock
Dirt/snow courses
Motorcycles
Better pit stops
Better drag racing

Tell me how delusional I am and none of these will make it in, AGAIN.
 
M

mike4001_

Member
DivineRage002 said:
I guess this is as good a place as any to put my FM6 wishlist:

Rain/changeable weather
Night racing/24 hour clock
Dirt/snow courses
Motorcycles
Better pit stops
Better drag racing

Tell me how delusional I am and none of these will make it in, AGAIN.
Click to expand...

Regarding rain and night I could just see that this is not really possible if they stay at 1080/60.

The lightning at night courses must be really hard and rain is of couse also ressource hungry.
 
M

m23

Member
Did the Zonda R ever make it in Forza 5? I don't remember it in there. If not, please be in 6, loved using it in 4.
 
GHG

GHG

Gold Member
mike4001_ said:
Regarding rain and night I could just see that this is not really possible if they stay at 1080/60.

The lightning at night courses must be really hard and rain is of couse also ressource hungry.
Click to expand...

I really don't understand this train of thought.

It's like people are making excuses already for them in case rain and night racing are not included.

GT5 ran at 1280x1080 with 2x AA on last gen hardware with night, dynamic lighting, and dynamic weather all in place. Frame rate was not a 100% solid 60 but it was pretty much there after a few patches. There is no reason why it cannot be done which so much more processing power available.

Project Cars will also be 1080/60 on consoles with all those things and more (like real pit stops) implemented.

No excuses.
 
A

amar212

Member
mike4001_ said:
Regarding rain and night I could just see that this is not really possible if they stay at 1080/60.

The lightning at night courses must be really hard and rain is of couse also ressource hungry.
Click to expand...

I will quote myself to quote the very Dan Greenawalt from 2010 regarding this issue. Following is the full contextualized quote from Dan Greenawalt prior to very Forza 4 release on X360 regarding possibility to have day/night and rain in FM4 on X360 hardware in 2011:

Very own Forzamotorsport.net interview:
What can you tell us about night racing and weather effects in Forza 4?

Forza Motorsport includes alternate times of day for a small number of environments, but those alternates do not include dark night or weather effects. For Forza 4, the majority of our graphical investment went into our new image-based lighting (IBL) model, as well as new material shaders, which give our cars and tracks such a realistic, detailed look. With IBL, supporting the general look of night is not particularly hard. However, we take frame rate pretty seriously—we believe that having a solid 60 frames per second (FPS) experience with no tearing is very important for a simulation racing game. Delivering night is about more than just getting the general look right. As we found on the original Forza Motorsport, having multiple headlight projections with multiple cast shadows is computationally heavy—even using clever tricks like we did on the less powerful original Xbox platform. This makes delivering a strong night racing experience very difficult at 60 FPS without significant compromise.

Regarding weather conditions, we do simulate different track temperatures. However, we did not get tire data for wet conditions from our tire partners at Pirelli. We do have SAE data about wet conditions, but it’s nowhere near as comprehensive as our Pirelli data. In order to simulate wet correctly, we’d like to get custom real-world test data to input into our system. Of course, physics isn’t the only difficult aspect of delivering wet conditions. Creating believable weather effects also depends upon gobs of particles and lots of shiny, reflective surfaces. There are several tricks for doing this, but it would still have made delivering the new graphical fidelity of FM4 at a solid 60 FPS nearly impossible in our development timeframe.

If we cut down on the number of cars on track, used original Xbox-generation car models, dropped to 30 FPS, or (and this would be the most effective solution) built specific tracks from the ground-up to have less detail and thus extra performance headroom, then night racing and/or weather conditions may have been possible. Some of those trade-offs, we just were not willing to do. Others would require time that we used to develop other features in the game—specifically, the new graphical look of the game in general. Night and weather are features we will continue to evaluate as the franchise continues. We’re waiting for the right time to deliver these features to our fans.
Click to expand...


Eurogamer interview:
Every version we explore night and weather. We whittle down thousands of ideas, and we have these autonomous teams. We hire specialists. We build the game like an onion. At its core is a drop-dead amazing simulation engine. But we always assume we're wrong, and then find the best way to make it better. It's that commitment that makes me confident we have the strongest simulation, because we build partnerships other companies just can't, and we have a commitment to getting it right at our core.

We then build assists and fun gameplay and things on top of it without ever sacrificing that. Well, part of that is a solid 60 frames per second. And I mean solid. When you start doing multiple projected shadows off of the front of the car... we have 16 players, so 16 cars times two, so 32 projected shadows. That is a very graphically intense thing.

Now, that's totally possible on the Xbox 360, but it means the specialists we have in graphics would need to work on that problem, and it would be a hard problem. The hard problem we chose to take on with our graphics this version was Image Based Lighting, and working with Hollywood. Every version, we look at this long list of features we would do, and they are divided into these different autonomous groups that have the specialists that could actually do it. We just can't take a network developer and say, hey, why don't you do a new particle system. It's not that they're smart guys, but we hired them because they are so good at delivering network code.

Graphically, doing huge particle effects, we would have to have that group that was developing IBL, and that took a long time for us to get it right. We had to implement a whole new way of thinking through the partnership with Hollywood. We'd have to have them working on that from the ground up. So that's the type of thing where we could do it. We could do it on this hardware. But it didn't prioritise higher than IBL, because the IBL and the way the game looks now is stunning, and it's universal. It helps everybody, no matter what type of player you are, having a beautiful looking game that runs at 60 frames per second is awesome.

The things I've read on forums, people saying, well, I wish they didn't do this feature - first, that shows a lack of respect for the people who are going to love that feature, which is fine. I don't expect gamers to respect people the way I do. But, the assumption in that statement is, we have 350 people, why don't you just move them all on to this other thing I want?

It's like, I can't move artists onto it. That's not going to help. I can't move networking devs. I can't move my physics developers. I can't move my AI developers. To hire the best in the industry takes years. Years. To hire the type of guys we get, you have to take people from Hollywood and other game companies. It's the only way you get senior talent. So you can't just decide, we want to do more, let's just staff up.
Click to expand...

He and new PR guy laughed on that subject in the famous Twitch video interview during E3 2013, mocking the very ability to have night and rain.

I will be waiting to see what will happen with this in 2015.

5 years so far and counting.
 
S

saladine1

Junior Member
If we don't end up seeing night/weather, then it would've been a design choice and not because the Xbox One is lacking power.

Greenawalt is simply averse to H2O for some reason...

oyVnEPg.jpg
 
R

RoKKeR

Member
Regarding day/night and weather I think T10 would have to be absolutely insane to leave those out after this much time, especially after seeing it implemented so well in Horizon 2 along with FM6 launching two years after FM5 with a much improved SDK.
 
G

Gestault

Member
A properly locked-in 60 fps minimum means no one part of the simulation (which is refreshing even faster) or the rendering can drop below that threshold. There's a reason even Polyphony Digital struggles with 60 fps, even with a greater development window. That said, I think it's doable on the current sets of console hardware. It's always down to what concessions have to be made, so I'm curious to see those priorities at play.
 
T

Terbinator

Member
Mascot said:
I'm really hoping pCARS gives Turn 10 pause for thought about the elements missing from Forza that make a mockery of the Motorsport moniker. I'd very gladly trade night and weather for
pit strategy and properly structured race events.
Click to expand...

Agree on both points.

Honestly, weather/night (dynamic or othwrwise) will be interesting to flick on every now and again but it wouldn't be as benedicial to the core racing experience as pit and repair strategy that we had back in FM1.
 
A

AsianOni

Member
Interesting interview of the studio manager of Turn10, Alan Hartman.
Interview on JeuxVideo.fr (french)

Not big announcements or reveal before E3 but some parts are interesting (some are more or less logical). We learn a bit about how the two studios (T10 and PG) work together.

I tried to select some of them (sorry for the approximate translation).

Le gameplay a nettement progressé bien sûr, mais aussi le contenu. Vous pouvez vous attendre à une longue et exhaustive liste de voitures.
Click to expand...
"Gameplay has progressed a lot of course but also the contents. You can expect a long and exhaustive list of cars"

Playground Games a apporté de nombreuses améliorations au moteur principal et nous retrouverons ces améliorations dans Forza Motorsport 6. Cela dit, les exigences ne sont pas les mêmes et nous devons par exemple conserver une fluidité à 60 images par seconde. Il nous faut aussi faire avec une simulation, des circuits et des revêtements sensiblement différents. En ce sens, les deux séries sont bien distinctes, mais il y a de nombreuses technologies en commun.
Click to expand...
TL;DR : improvements brought by PG will be in FM6 but 60fps is obligatory and a lot of simulation must be done depending of the surface of each tracks.

Nous avons une équipe d'environ 250 personnes à Redmond qui travaille sur Forza 6 et plusieurs centaines de personnes à travers le monde chargées de créer tous les assets du jeu.
Click to expand...
"We have a team of 250 persons in Redmond who work on Forza 6 and several hundreds other persons worldwide in charge of creating assets for the game."

~~~

I think a Google Translate link will be easier.
 
C

c0de

Member
AsianOni said:
Interesting interview of the studio manager of Turn10, Alan Hartman.
Interview on JeuxVideo.fr (french)

Not big announcements or reveal before E3 but some parts are interesting (some are more or less logical). We learn a bit about how the two studios (T10 and PG) work together.

I tried to select some of them (sorry for the approximate translation).


"Gameplay has progressed a lot of course but also the contents. You can expect a long and exhaustive list of cars"


TL;DR : improvements brought by PG will be in FM6 but 60fps is obligatory and a lot of simulation must be done depending of the surface of each tracks.


"We have a team of 250 persons in Redmond who work on Forza 6 and several hundreds other persons worldwide in charge of creating assets for the game."

~~~

I think a Google Translate link will be easier.
Click to expand...

I am eager to see how this will look. He hints at many improvements.
 
N

Noobcraft

Member
Terbinator said:
Agree on both points.

Honestly, weather/night (dynamic or othwrwise) will be interesting to flick on every now and again but it wouldn't be as benedicial to the core racing experience as pit and repair strategy that we had back in FM1.
Click to expand...
Weather adds a unique dynamic to pit strategy during endurance races though. I liked that during 24 hrs at Nurburgring on GT5 I had to make the call to pit for rain tires or try to do 1 more lap before the track got too wet. I'd like both to be there in FM6.
 
G

G Rom

Member
The interview from jeuxvideo make it sound like we could truly see a similar leap than the one we got from FM2 to FM3.


Come on Dan, don't disappoint, just come up on stage with the Ford GT, say "This is Forza Motorsport 6" while a trailer showing different tracks with dynamic time of day and weather, grids of up to 24 cars, etc... starts playing. Then you can leave like that :
giphy.gif
 
D

Deaf Spacker

Memb
G Rom said:
The interview from jeuxvideo make it sound like we could truly see a similar leap than the one we got from FM2 to FM3.


Come on Dan, don't disappoint, just come up on stage with the Ford GT, say "This is Forza Motorsport 6" while a trailer showing different tracks with dynamic time of day and weather, grids of up to 24 cars, etc... starts playing. Then you can leave like that :
giphy.gif
Click to expand...

Not gonna happen.
 
S

Shaneus

Member
DivineRage002 said:
I guess this is as good a place as any to put my FM6 wishlist:

Rain/changeable weather
Night racing/24 hour clock
Dirt/snow courses
Motorcycles
Better pit stops
Better drag racing

Tell me how delusional I am and none of these will make it in, AGAIN.
Click to expand...
Given PGR4's lack of even baked day/night across all tracks was solely due to size constraints of DVD, there's really no reason we should at least expect to see multiple day/night times for each track. They've had the time, they have the storage, there really is no excuse... even if it's not dynamic.
 
C

Conduit

Banned
Terbinator said:
Agree on both points.

Honestly, weather/night (dynamic or othwrwise) will be interesting to flick on every now and again but it wouldn't be as benedicial to the core racing experience as pit and repair strategy that we had back in FM1.
Click to expand...

Well, old article : https://www.teamvvv.com/en/news/comments/No-weather-daynight-cycles-or-Auction-Houses-for-Forza-5

"Turn 10's Dan Greenawalt is claimed to have said that FM5 will retain the franchise's tradition of not having any weather effects, whilst the in-game Auction House appears to have been removed entirely."

Will Forza 6 continue this tradition?
 
P

Paladin CL

Member
I hope they make a great game this time, with contents (cars and tracks) and features more similar to Forza 4, with the auction house and the storefront back.
That an a better career more with more variety.
 
J

JayhawkerStL

Banned
GHG said:
I really don't understand this train of thought.

It's like people are making excuses already for them in case rain and night racing are not included.

GT5 ran at 1280x1080 with 2x AA on last gen hardware with night, dynamic lighting, and dynamic weather all in place. Frame rate was not a 100% solid 60 but it was pretty much there after a few patches. There is no reason why it cannot be done which so much more processing power available.

Project Cars will also be 1080/60 on consoles with all those things and more (like real pit stops) implemented.

No excuses.
Click to expand...
My excuse would be that real races are not done in the rain. I get why people like it, but it doesn't seem to have a place a proper sim.
 
G

GoldenCrow

Member
Kssio_Aug

Kssio_Aug

Member
Completely expected, but awesome news!! one of the titles I'm most excited for this year! Loved Horizon 2, my GOTY 2014 (besides being done by different developers).
 
Jamesways

Jamesways

Member
JayhawkerStL said:
My excuse would be that real races are not done in the rain. I get why people like it, but it doesn't seem to have a place a proper sim.
Click to expand...

Not the first time I've read this on Gaf, in Forza threads no less.

Nascar does not race in the rain. But SBK, MotoGP, ALMS/Tudor, WEC, FIA GT, Blancpain, LeMans, F1, etc all race in the rain.

They'll call it if it's a torrential downpour flooding the track, but most often than not, races go on. A passing storm after the start of a race changes strategy and gets teams scrambling in the middle of a race. Good stuff.

So yeah, it sure DOES have a place in a proper sim.

Yiazmat said:
what

Gif
Click to expand...

Exactly.
 
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