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[w00zey]

Somewhere in all of this I hope that videogames stop having fat people portrayed as lazy slobs. I'm so over it.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Losing the 'Games Journalism!' thread in exchange for this slacktivism hashtag one is a truly poor trade indeed

Funnily enough, #GamerGate highlights the exact same problem with modern feminism and other such causes where one label is supposed to act as an umbrella for a huge quantity of individuals and will inevitably be tied to the loudest and craziest of their number.

 

[Sneds]

You're saying the "gams journalism is biased and corrupt" narrative didn't exist before the "quinnspiracy"? Because people have been claiming that for ages.

You're right. The problem with #GamerGate is that its advocates are focusing in on indie devs personal relationships with people in the media. They're inferring from those relationships that people like Zoe Quinn have a great web-like influence over the media. The real problematic relationships between the media and the games industry aren't individuals like Zoe Quinn but the massive publishers who control what journalists get to see and fund sites through advertising. Yet few, if any, people involved in #GamerGate are really talking about that.

 

[nynt9]

Yet we didn't have a hashtag until this whole thing blew up. Why now? It's like suddenly caring about political corruption after a politician goes to lunch with a controversial friend while ignoring the corporation that bought them a private jet and a house.

I see it as people who have always been bothered by the private jet piggybacking on the outrage generated by the lunch to bring the whole deal together. It's not mutually exclusive. I don't understand why people are acting like being upset with the situation in journalism now is mutually exclusive with being upset with its situation previously.

 

[Patryn]

A few things:
a. You can get advertisement from different fields than the one you are covering right now. In a way, doritos and mountain dew is amazing for that. Better them than Activision or Ubisoft. (It is more complex than that, of course).

I see people say this, then I think back to "Doritosgate" and Keighley being unable to be anywhere without being called the "Doritos Pope".

A few miscellaneous thoughts.

1) I really want to know the demographics of the readership of the various gaming websites. IGN tends to get pilloried for them bragging that their readership is 75% men, but I'll be genuinely unsurprised if Kotaku, Polygon, Gamespot, Eurogamer et al would have similar or higher proportions of men. This also would be stuff their respective advertising departments would know and would tell to any potential advertiser.

Giant Bomb recently did a survey in which 97 percent of respondents were male.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

It's not all in the hashtag, /v/ actually tells people not to do that since it would make their agenda too transparent.

Most of the harassment is shit like this, where people who are perceived as "pro-SJW" get hassled apropos of nothing.

I've had that Love Deluxe person be sorta rude in the comments when I post artwork on twitter before. Felt like s/he was saying unnecessarily belligerent things.

It kinda pisses me off that elements of this "war" seem to cross into me just posting some smash bros fanart on twitter. /:

 

[RE_Player]

Giant Bomb recently did a survey in which 97 percent of respondents were male.

Wasn't that just for Bombcast listeners? That number could be off as the Giant Bomb guys have stated multiple times there is a large portion of the bombcast audience that has never once visited Giant Bomb and simply pulls the bombcast from iTunes, never seeing the survey.

 

[Abelian75]

Well reasoned counter arguments and long-form articles going viral would be more effective in this instance. It's what Tropes effectively has done. Made a decent, calm argument with supporting evidence and had the echo chamber give it an audience.

Someone could do the same thing for the #gamergate side of things, but so far it's not really happening. It's just a bunch of people screaming at clouds.

This has been my major takeaway regarding actual, actionable items from all this. We really need counterarguments to Anita's videos (and other social commentary) that aren't angry, ad-hominem attacks. Assuming her stated goals are genuine, I personally want the same thing as she does, I just happen to also think her videos have quite a few issues.

I think a lot of the flailing around has been because people want to see SOME sort of representation of the "maybe these videos aren't actually that awesome" point of view, because the gaming press really hasn't done much of that.

That said, at some point you have to take responsibility and just create the representation of that point of view yourself instead of just screaming for them to magically come into being, I guess.

That said, during the ME3 kerfuffle, there actually WERE pretty intelligent arguments made to support the "this shit sucks" side, but they seemed largely ignored by the gaming press. Which sort of makes me feel like the actual "goal" of gamergate should maybe just be the gaming press saying "Hey, if you come up with calm, reasoned counterarguments to things we've linked/written about, we'll try to make an effort to discuss those as well." I dunno.

 

[jschreier]

I see it as people who have always been bothered by the private jet piggybacking on the outrage generated by the lunch to bring the whole deal together. It's not mutually exclusive. I don't understand why people are acting like being upset with the situation in journalism now is mutually exclusive with being upset with its situation previously.

The problem is that many people have used "journalistic ethics" as a smokescreen for a harassment campaign designed to bully women and support a right-wing ethos in which feminist critique of video games is not only discouraged, it's met by death threats.

I mean, look at the leaders of GamerGate: Adam Baldwin (who it turns out is crazy), a Breitbart writer with a history of misogynist comments, and vile YouTubers like that InternetAristocrat dude. Almost every single GamerGate supporter is coupling their call for journalistic ethics with a distaste for "Social Justice Warriors," which conflates the issues in a very dangerous way. The issue of journalistic ethics is very real, and worth taking seriously; the issue of people not liking progressive critiques and "Social Justice Warriors" is not.

That Slate article, for example, made a few decent points about the "us vs. them" mentality in video game journalism, but it's problematic to bring that up after the events of the past few weeks without also recognizing how this campaign has been tainted by calls against feminism and progressive critique in gaming.

At risk of being too reductive: If people really wanted to talk about journalistic ethics, they would be going after Activision and EA, not Zoe Quinn and Jenn Frank.

 

[Lime]

Giant Bomb recently did a survey in which 97 percent of respondents were male.

After the piling on and harassment of Samantha Allen for speaking up about diversity in the GB staff, I could understand why the gender divide of GB audiences are so skewed. Also, their casual boys-club brand is also very specific and caters to a certain demographic (which is totally fine if that's what they want to and they're good at what they do)

 

[omgfloofy]

Wasn't that just for Bombcast listeners? That number could be off as the Giant Bomb guys have stated multiple times there is a large portion of the bombcast audience that has never once visited Giant Bomb and simply pulls the bombcast from iTunes, never seeing the survey.

That statistic, though, also closely corresponds with the data that's produced when looking at Giant Bomb on Alexa.

I brought up using Alexa analytics in an earlier post in this thread. They're not 100% accurate, but many large corporations use Alexa since their data is still highly accurate- despite not being 100%. Google Analytics requires keys on the site, and so forth and only the account owner can see details, but Alexa can allow people to see more detail even if you don't own the domain, due to how the service functions.

 

[nynt9]

The problem is that many people have used "journalistic ethics" as a smokescreen for a harassment campaign designed to bully women and support a right-wing ethos in which feminist critique of video games is not only discouraged, it's met by death threats.

I mean, look at the leaders of GamerGate: Adam Baldwin (who it turns out is crazy), a Breitbart writer with a history of misogynist comments, and vile YouTubers like that InternetAristocrat dude. Almost every single GamerGate supporter is coupling their call for journalistic ethics with a distaste for "Social Justice Warriors," which conflates the issues in a very dangerous way. The issue of journalistic ethics is very real, and worth taking seriously; the issue of people not liking progressive critiques and "Social Justice Warriors" is not.

That Slate article, for example, made a few decent points about the "us vs. them" mentality in video game journalism, but it's problematic to bring that up after the events of the past few weeks without also recognizing how this campaign has been tainted by calls against feminism and progressive critique in gaming.

At risk of being too reductive: If people really wanted to talk about journalistic ethics, they would be going after Activision and EA, not Zoe Quinn and Jenn Frank.

I can't really speak for the hashtag, as I said earlier in this thread, I wasn't aware of it until very recently. I didn't even really know it was based on the Quinn stuff, I thought it was a renewed vigor on the issue due to that, not in support of harassment.

I am in favor of the Slate article and in favor of questioning publisher/journalist/dev practices. I don't really care for what individuals do in their lives and I don't support doxxing or threats.

 

[RE_Player]

That statistic, though, also closely corresponds with the data that's produced when looking at Giant Bomb on Alexa.

I brought up using Alexa analytics in an earlier post in this thread. They're not 100% accurate, but many large corporations use Alexa since their data is still highly accurate- despite not being 100%. Google Analytics requires keys on the site, and so forth and only the account owner can see details, but Alexa can allow people to see more detail even if you don't own the domain, due to how the service functions.

Thanks for the link. I don't doubt that Giant Bomb has a large male audience, I just think 97% is a tad high.

 

[Lime]

At risk of being too reductive: If people really wanted to talk about journalistic ethics, they would be going after Activision and EA, not Zoe Quinn and Jenn Frank.

And it's sad to the point of hilarity that so few supporters of Gamergate are realizing what endeavour they actually are committing to.

 

[Darklord]

I see people posting screenshots from twitter from people attacking women but there are cunts on both sides like this.

Twitter is full of complete and total dickheads.

 

[omgfloofy]

Thanks for the link. I don't doubt that Giant Bomb has a large male audience, I just think 97% is a tad high.

Oh yeah, definitely. I might have to send my coffee back, as the caffeine is defective. I swear I read 75% at first. lol Yeah, 97% is definitely a bit high, there.

EDIT:

And it's sad to the point of hilarity that so few supporters of Gamergate are realizing what endeavour they actually are committing to.

As someone who does believe in part of the message (not the harassment issue, of course, and I could care less about the Zoe scandal), I have gone directly to companies in the past, and instead of getting a response for airing my grievances, I've been mocked, ignored, or brushed off. This is seriously, as I said earlier, the first time I felt like I actually had a voice for once.

 

[RE_Player]

I see people posting screenshots from twitter from people attacking women but there are cunts on both sides like this.

Twitter is full of complete and total dickheads.

yikes

 

[TheLight]

I see people posting screenshots from twitter from people attacking women but there are cunts on both sides like this.

Twitter is full of complete and total dickheads.

This whole frustration on "the white guy" is so mean-spirited and aggressive. This shit was WILD uncalled for.

It is almost like the whole"the white man is keeping us down" is making rounds through time.

 

[Mononoke]

After the piling on and harassment of Samantha Allen for speaking up about diversity in the GB staff, I could understand why the gender divide of GB audiences are so skewed. Also, their casual boys-club brand is also very specific and caters to a certain demographic (which is totally fine if that's what they want to and they're good at what they do)

There is nothing wrong with criticizing a company for flaws that you see in said company. Regardless of gender, you can see a company that is only catering to one gender as being a flaw. But how Alexander and all the people that are friends with her attacked GB on a personal level when not being hired, was IMO the wrong way to go about criticizing them.

Can't quote this post anymore because the thread was closed. And while I don't agree 100% with him, I don't think the way the criticism was dished out was right either.

The problem with criticism of the GB hiring was that it was articulated in a petty, personal way and centered around "oh look, a white guy" and not "hmm...it seems like the hiring process was structured not to account for systemic bias."

The issue isn't that Dan is white as much as it seemed like he was always going to be hired and the process was just for show. Other candidates, including minority candidates, didn't have a realistic shot. And since the GB guys are a bunch of white guys with white friends that type of hiring means minorities get short shrift systemically.

Unfortunately the criticism came out as "well I didn't apply and I wasn't hired, and my friend who did apply, who would have been a horrible hire and just wrote a blog post proving that, also wasn't hired!"

Samantha's friend wasn't hired. Ok. She probably shouldn't have been. That's not the issue. The issue isn't even that no woman or minority was hired. The issue is more that no non-white male had a reasonable shot of being hired.

 

[d9b]

I think Z.Q. scandal was the final straw, especially because of the bombastic nature of the revelations. Personal life of people are of no interest to me, but the whole Kotaku, etc connection was a boiling point. This whole thing sure is a messy affair, and I still hope corruption and ties between PR, publishers, devs and gaming media will be looked into once the emotions and noise are taken out of consideration. It is obvious that a lot of people demand it.

 

[Sneds]

I see people say this, then I think back to "Doritosgate" and Keighley being unable to be anywhere without being called the "Doritos Pope".

The Doritos and Mountain Dew examples are a little different because they weren't entirely independent from the games industry. The two companies had a cross-promotion with Halo 3.

But on the broader topic Justin McElroy said on his twitter account:

One of the actual problems game journalism has is endemic advertisers. It’s not healthy to have so many advertisers that make games.

One of the components of Gamer Gate is complaining to non-endemic advertisers about advertising on game journalism sites.

Aside from everything else, that’s the big issue with the Gamer Gate stuff. They’re actively making things worse, from where I sit.

 

[marrec]

At risk of being too reductive: If people really wanted to talk about journalistic ethics, they would be going after Activision and EA, not Zoe Quinn and Jenn Frank.

Well then they're going after the people who're making the games they enjoy.

They can't be worried about journalistic ethics on the one hand but then ignore YouTube partnership programs on the other. The targets of this current campaign are baffling. We have real and substantial examples of corruption in games coverage that is being ignored because the crowd is mad at "journalists" who've decided to write more about those poopy indie games they don't like.

Meanwhile the YouTube videos they're passing around about how Zoe Quinn is the true satan are being produced by people that are potentially being paid by publishers to produce specific content.

I think Z.Q. scandal was the final straw, especially because of the bombastic nature of the revelations. Personal life of people are of no interest to me, but the whole Kotaku, etc connection was a boiling point. This whole thing sure is a messy affair, and I still hope corruption and ties between PR, publishers, devs and gaming media will be looked into once the emotions and noise are taken out of consideration. It is obvious that a lot of people demand it.

There isn't any messiness to the affair actually. There's no evidence that Quinns relationship with anyone involved in the press help to promote her game so while the revelations may be scandalous... they're not corrupt. It's basically TMZ level news.

 

[unround]

I see people posting screenshots from twitter from people attacking women but there are cunts on both sides like this.

Twitter is full of complete and total dickheads.

It was a pretty reasonable reaction tbh, I don't really see the problem with dismissing leading nonquestions that get asked over and over and over again as a means to deflect from minority grievances

 

[Trey]

I dunno, it seems like the only solution is just to pay attention. If a reporter consistently says or does things you don't like or trust, stay away from his/her work. Find reviewers whose tastes you agree with, and find journalists who seem honest and transparent. Anyone who genuinely cares about this stuff should be paying close attention to bylines, and if you feel like a journalist/reviewer or outlet burns you or is shady in some way, there's no shame in calling them out. That's one thing sites like GAF are very helpful for: calling journalists out and keeping them honest.

I don't know why this has to be explained to people.

 

[soultron]

I think Z.Q. scandal was the final straw, especially because of the bombastic nature of the revelations. Personal life of people are of no interest to me, but the whole Kotaku, etc connection was a boiling point. This whole thing sure is a messy affair, and I still hope corruption and ties between PR, publishers, devs and gaming media will be looked into once the emotions and noise are taken out of consideration. It is obvious that a lot of people demand it.

The only thing that will result from this is some websites changing their journalistic ethics guidelines in order to placate a loud minority. Publishers don't give a shit about this because to them, #GamerGate doesn't even register a blip on their seismometer; none of their products are directly under fire here, and admitting to the blacklisting and (attempts at) manipulation of the enthusiast press (when publications accept, if ever) is too inside baseball for them to waste Community Developer/Marketing money on since there's no tangible and immediate monetary benefit.

Publishers are the core problem, but it doesn't matter that no one is targeting them since they won't be able to affect change there anyway.

 

[Darklord]

This whole frustration on "the white guy" is so mean-spirited and aggressive. This shit was WILD uncalled for.

It is almost like the whole"the white man is keeping us down" is making rounds through time.

The thing with that certain issue hiring Dan at giantbomb was he was TOTALLY the best choice and fits in perfectly. There are a lot of hateful guys on twitter saying shit like "i hope u get raped bitch" but there are a ton of really nasty, mean spirited "feminists" on there too. I use quotation marks because I don't think they're actually for equal right, they just hate men and hide their hate and sexism behind that word. The same way religious people hide behind religion or family values to be homophobic. I've seen twitter accounts that are called "Fuck all men" and say things like "ugh, men are disgusting", "men ruin everything, "yes all men are rapists". If a guy had that kind of thing about a woman he'd be seen as a total piece of shit.

It was a pretty reasonable reaction tbh, I don't really see the problem with dismissing leading nonquestions that get asked over and over and over again as a means to deflect from minority grievances

Telling someone to go fuck themselves because they asked a legitimate question is reasonable? It's not a nonquestion.

 

[Tetsuo9]

I don't know why this has to be explained to people.

Probably because some of these bad publications are still doing fine having aggregators using their reviews for metacritic. No amount of criticism of Meristation has made aggregators like metacritic drop them.

 

[nynt9]

It was a pretty reasonable reaction tbh, I don't really see the problem with dismissing leading nonquestions that get asked over and over and over again as a means to deflect from minority grievances

While the "more qualified" stuff is a typical non-argument, "go fuck yourself" is never a reasonable reaction.

 

[Koriandrr]

I told myself I'll stay out of this one and just be positive for a change, but here I am...

I just feel like most vocal/popular women online just don't do it justice to what the reality is. No offense to anyone, making it clear now - I am not here to flame, hate or insult anyone. I have great respect for women like Anita - it takes a lot of balls to do what she does and there's both great advantages and disadvantages to what she does.

I just want to say what I think, as a woman who works in the game industry, in the UK. Now, I say in the UK, because the industry here is much smaller than in the States and there's a lot less of.. everything. Which includes sexism. The only sexism I've ever encountered is either from online 'trolls'. I've only encountered sexism in the workplace once and it was from an indie game developer, who more or less worked alone, because nobody would hire him for his personality. And that's exactly what happens to people like that when they try to get into the industry - they get blacklisted and kicked out. There is justice and equality going on, it's not a 'boy's club' or whatever social media makes it out to be. I am happy and proud to be working in this industry, alongside so many wonderful people who love games and are passionate about creating them. And these people also happen to be of colour, women, gay or even transgender. They make games too, you know.

This 'community' people speak of online and put under this category of 'gamers' is a vocal MINORITY. Nothing more, nothing less. Bored people with too much time to spare. Most GAMERS out there are nothing like these people and usually just ignore them entirely or take it as a joke.

I just can't seem to fathom why anyone would generalise people like that for whatever reason. Are people this desperate for attention that they cross this border and intentionally provoke and write so much controversial content that it sets the internet on fire?

What I would like to see come out of this is people being nicer to each other for a change and give some appreciation. I know it's a lot to ask for, and I mean it for both sides - game journalists and 'gamers' alike. We like the same things, isn't that enough to just get along without insulting each other?


Can we pretend that the internet is more real than we think it is? Because it is. And do you remember that rule about saying bad things to people (in real life)? Yeah, that one - "If you have something bad to say, better say nothing at all."
(well I just said something, I'm sorry)


I have never met this 'gamer' people keep talking about. This person who hates women and gay people and tells them to go kill themselves. I don't even know if this person exists. I think that people change online and take out their daily stress out, very much like the 'troll husband story'. But in my line of work, where I meet A LOT of gamers on a daily basis, I have never seen this 'gamer' you speak of.

 

[Mononoke]

At risk of being too reductive: If people really wanted to talk about journalistic ethics, they would be going after Activision and EA, not Zoe Quinn and Jenn Frank.

The problem is that many people aren't going after Quinn and Jenn Frank. But you hit the nail on the head. This started out as a movement against Quinn and writers like Frank. It's a movement disguised as criticism against corruption in the media. When really, it was an outlet/movement for those to push back against media/activists that have been criticizing their precious hobby. But since this has blown the fuck up and played into the already strained relationship between consumer and media well there you go.

I do know people are still attacking them (even now that this GamerGate has taken off as supposedly being about something else). But that's because these are people showing their true intention (these are the kind of people that actually started the campaign). Everyone else's focus is not on them. They got roped in to this supposed larger criticism of the press being supposedly corrupt. Partly because the medias botched message and poor handling of these issues. Also partly because, some consumers are irrational and some of their criticisms of the press in general aren't very well founded or thought out (not to say there isn't some legitimate criticisms, but I think a lot of people don't even really know what they mean when they say the press is corrupt).

 

[Mael]

I think Z.Q. scandal was the final straw, especially because of the bombastic nature of the revelations. Personal life of people are of no interest to me, but the whole Kotaku, etc connection was a boiling point. This whole thing sure is a messy affair, and I still hope corruption and ties between PR, publishers, devs and gaming media will be looked into once the emotions and noise are taken out of consideration. It is obvious that a lot of people demand it.

I rolled my eyes so much I can see behind my back.
People are so fed up of rampant collusion that they're not targeting the most egregious, visible and easy targets?
It's like getting mad at payolas in radio and targeting that indie band that offered a meal to an unknown radio host while totally avoiding the Sonys of the world.

 

[SerTapTap]

Somewhere in all of this I hope that videogames stop having fat people portrayed as lazy slobs. I'm so over it.

The stereotypes are an extremely unfortunate part of the conversation. I don't think I have any actual pull against actual harassers but well meaning people spewing mean stereotypes is something I absolutely want to end.

 

[Silexx]

I dunno, it seems like the only solution is just to pay attention. If a reporter consistently says or does things you don't like or trust, stay away from his/her work. Find reviewers whose tastes you agree with, and find journalists who seem honest and transparent. Anyone who genuinely cares about this stuff should be paying close attention to bylines, and if you feel like a journalist/reviewer or outlet burns you or is shady in some way, there's no shame in calling them out. That's one thing sites like GAF are very helpful for: calling journalists out and keeping them honest.

At the end of the day, the people yelling about corruption just want the gaming press to become Confirmation Bias Central.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Telling someone to go fuck themselves because they asked a legitimate question is reasonable? It's not a nonquestion.

Twitter's a tricky medium due to the fact that it (same for tumblr) is an extremely open environment where people can easily jump in on conversations between friends.

I'm not a big fan of profanity myself but I've found myself feeling quite uncomfortable recently with seemingly random people (especially people that don't seem to follow me or who I'm talking to) jumping in asking questions.

Personally I avoid posting opinions like the plague, I only post artwork & I still find this stuff sliding into my personal feed on just my artwork.

I can fully understand that more public/known people don't have a lot of patience for randomers coming in just to disagree. It honestly is a rude way to approach someone when you think about it, just flying in to question strangers; that's why it gets reacted to rudely.


That's my opinion on that stuff anyway.

While the "more qualified" stuff is a typical non-argument, "go fuck yourself" is never a reasonable reaction.

I think a lot of people are prone to do it cause it's a fairly effective way to have someone stop bothering them.

Any attempt to sound reasonable or to engage otherwise just leads to a long and tedious debate between people that will never agree. (The people that actively seek out people to disagree with them are usually not the ones who'll have their minds changed anyway.)

 

[soultron]

What I would like to see come out of this is people being nicer to each other for a change and give some appreciation. I know it's a lot to ask for, and I mean it for both sides - game journalists and 'gamers' alike. We like the same things, isn't that enough to just get along without insulting each other?

If I'm allowed to reduce things to factions for one moment, I wish anyone engaging in negative behaviour online (harassment, doxxing, rape/death threats, all the way down to just being an immature shitheel) would just chill the fuck out and be cool. I've seen members of the press and indie developers participating in shitty exchanges (insulting people tweeting at them, etc.) online that make me embarrassed to work in games. I understand that some of these folks are incredibly stressed (most of us are), but it doesn't make lashing out at random idiots on twitter make you seem like the bigger person. It just throws gas on the fire, giving more people "evidence" with which to create cherry-picked, out-of-context twitter screencaps to fling at industry and press on twitter when they try to add anything to the conversation.

 

[Higgins113]

Another female dev weighs in
https://twitter.com/Mirage_Noir

 

[Lime]

Another female dev weighing in

Regardless of gender of this dev, leaving your home because of threats to you and family is NOT "a trivial matter", as she is claiming.

She also casts doubt on Sarkeesian's claims by saying "if someone is shouting about it in public, on twitter, you should take a critical approach".

This is not a good or empathetic position to take, regardless of your gender.

 

[Papacheeks]

After reading through Gamesutra's article and mulling the one's Jason Schreier pointed out. I truly believe the issues at hand, with gamersgate are just effects of a certain percentage of people who played games without respecting them, or the medium that present's them.

I remember watching a youtube video last night about ANgry Joe talking about his nephews who were upstairs watching video game videos, but to his surprise they weren't having fun watching, they were having fun trolling the comment section.

Which is what stems a lot of these issues that were talking about now. If we were to take Delorean back in time before youtube and twitter. It was a better place when it came to journalistic integrity, feedback, and overall healthy minds on the industry.

We look at it now and there is no filter for the most part, granted, people lose their jobs when they post something public, that can get a negative reaction. But at the same time, it's like saying someone can't have a view of their own.

I truly believe the core of the problem lies between social media, and the new generation of gamer's, who have no respect for the medium they play.

People from the arcade era, respected console maker's so much more, for bringing games that really may only cater to a few. There was no vile trash talking between developer's, consumer's and even journalists.

It was a very peaceful time. But i think the other side of that coin is when company's became more interested in pandering to those "Kids" that don't respect the medium.
Because they know they can get free advertising.

Just like when someone write's a click bait article to get traffic on their site.

If the industry didn't cater to these "Kids" of youtube, twiter, and more to the "oldschool arcade guy's" I think this issue would not even be an issue.

 

[Scizzy]

I see people posting screenshots from twitter from people attacking women but there are cunts on both sides like this.

Please don't use that word when referencing a specific woman (not that you should use it at all, but especially not with a single example), it's incredibly rude.

And the Dan hiring is a good example of how slanted the concerns of many in the GamersGate movement are. Dan's hiring was entirely an example of the chumminess of the press and how hermetically sealed it is. When the site was gently (and it was gentle) criticized for it, the same people complaining about GamersGate were up in arms about how sacrosanct the hiring of Dan was because he was the "most qualified" when his primary qualification was that he was goofy and friends with the group already. And I shouldn't have to do this, but I'll add that I think Dan has been a great addition to the site.

That same dissonance is there when you drill down on a lot of the people within the movement's demands. They want the gaming press to be more critical of the games they cover, unless its critical of their racial or gender politics. THAT kind of criticism doesn't count.

 

[kcp12304]

Another female dev weighs in
https://twitter.com/Mirage_Noir

What a complete lack of empathy on her part. It's easy to say "man up" when you're not on the receiving end of harassment.

 

[nynt9]

Twitter's a tricky medium due to the fact that it (same for tumblr) is an extremely open environment where people can easily jump in on conversations between friends.

I'm not a big fan of profanity myself but I've found myself feeling quite uncomfortable recently with seemingly random people (especially people that don't seem to follow me or who I'm talking to) jumping in asking questions.

Personally I avoid posting opinions like the plague, I only post artwork & I still find this stuff sliding into my personal feed on just my artwork.

I can fully understand that more public/known people don't have a lot of patience for randomers coming in just to disagree. It honestly is a rude way to approach someone when you think about it, just flying in to question strangers; that's why it gets reacted to rudely.


That's my opinion on that stuff anyway.



I think a lot of people are prone to do it cause it's a fairly effective way to have someone stop bothering them.

Any attempt to sound reasonable or to engage otherwise just leads to a long and tedious debate between people that will never agree. (The people that actively seek out people to disagree with them are usually not the ones who'll have their minds changed anyway.)

You can just block people without telling them to go fuck themselves. I do it all the time.

 

[TheForceWithin]

I think a lot of people are prone to do it cause it's a fairly effective way to have someone stop bothering them.

Trust me, it does the complete opposite. It paints a target on your back. The evidence is this entire mess.

 

[Irminsul]

I can fully understand that more public/known people don't have a lot of patience for randomers coming in just to disagree. It honestly is a rude way to approach someone when you think about it, just flying in to question strangers; that's why it gets reacted to rudely.

If I remember seeing the uncensored version of this screenshot correctly, it wasn't some random person posing the question but someone from GiantBombs staff(?). So this probably wasn't the reason for the reaction.

 

[soultron]

Another female dev weighs in
https://twitter.com/Mirage_Noir

How are "gamers" being silenced and stripped of rights?

Also, someone can't argue that they're insulted by op-ed pieces using the term "gamer," that weren't even intending to use the term in an all-encompassing context, and then try to argue that "gamers" using the term in an all-encompassing context, are being silenced and stripped of rights. That's hypocritical. And how is anyone who plays games being silenced and stripped of rights?

 

[Neoriceisgood]

You can just block people without telling them to go fuck themselves. I do it all the time.

Plenty of people who would consider blocking over a simple question rude as well.
Personally I find a "quiet" block a lot worse than a clear message, even if it's rude.

Trust me, it does the complete opposite. It paints a target on your back. The evidence is this entire mess.

I'm pretty sure having certain opinions paints a target on your back. Plenty of people who aren't aggressive get targetted just the same.

 

[Interfectum]

Twitter is a fascinating thing to watch sometimes. You'll see a games journalist (or dev or any content provider really) post something on Twitter get tons of favorites, retweets, great comments, etc. Then you'll see them retweet one of the few negative comments they get "oh look my haters have arrived" or "I'm being harrassed." Then you'll see an out-pour of support, favorites, retweets, etc. And again, that support gets ignored while the person now goes on a soap box about how the internet/gamers/twitter/whatever is horrible.

How can we ever resolve this debate when people are only going to single out the few bad people that supposedly represent the whole? Instead of blaming "gamers" for harassment why not push Twitter or Facebook for better, quicker reporting options and legitimate consequences?

The only thing these past few weeks have done has empowered the fringe elements on both sides. The so called Social Justice Warriors have raked up the followers, website hits, article counts, etc and the internet trolls are fed exactly what they want: attention. I mean seriously, why would they stop now? All they have to do is create a Twitter account and say "imma gonna kill u" and they are screenshotted, retweeted and discussed throughout the web.

 

[Lalalandia]

You can just block people without telling them to go fuck themselves. I do it all the time.

True but for these folks you're doing it dozen of times a day (or per hour on some of the timelines I've read) you may snap. A question is reasonable, the same question hundreds of times starts to seem like an attack.

 

[Widge]

a Breitbart writer with a history of misogynist comments

This guy is terrible. He seems to be angling to fill a Katie Hopkins shaped hole. Except Katie Hopkins already occupies it and nobody wants anybody to fill that hole anyway.

 

[kiguel182]

Another female dev weighs in
https://twitter.com/Mirage_Noir

Award shows are always full of political decisions. This goes for any entertainment field.

The fact that this talk about "corruption" came from something that has nothing to do with corruption just makes it seem wrong and misguided. Some of the comments also reek of conspiracy.

Also, regarding that Gamasutra article, I think it's spot on save for the "gamers can't dress" comment that just seemed petty and uncalled for.

The term "gamer" really has a negative connotation to it that I see more and more people detaching themselves from it.

The whole "hardcore" gaming culture it's really unhealthy and it helps misogyny and ignorance grow.

 

[Lime]

Chris Paul (game academic) provides some good suggestions on the important things we have to adhere and keep in mind:

First, I think that any decent person involved in interactions with others needs to ponder whether or not they are being empathetic. Empathy is about being able to share another person’s feelings. I felt for all of the harassed prior to my brief moment of #GamerGate mention, but if my tiny role made me think as much as it did, I can’t even imagine what it’s like for the women in the middle of things.

Jenn Frank tweeted about how she felt she couldn’t have a family and write about games. That’s a travesty. The screencaps from the harassed routinely features comments that shouldn’t be thought, let alone sent to someone.

Second, #GamerGate should encourage all involved to think deeply about privilege. Those harassed are disproportionately women. I am speaking out at least in part because of my male privilege. My link to the whole situation is likely to end up as being humorous, rather than horrific.

However, privilege also extends to safety and security of position and status. Many of the people who are quitting games are in highly contingent positions that depend on the ongoing support of game publications. Those of us who are fortunate enough to have more stable positions have an obligation to speak out and support those who are placed in the crosshairs of gamers.

Third, fighting for social justice is something we should all be doing. Social justice is simply a good thing.

I work at a place with a clear mission to engage in social justice. The people in my community would have a hard time understanding how Social Justice Warrior could possibly be an insult. Heck, I’d probably also be getting a medal if I was awarded that title on campus.

My partner asked what I was going to do with this and I said I was going to write something and publish it. She asked why I’d put it online and why I’d threaten our family’s safety. I think this is simply one of those moments where you have to pick a side. Sometimes one has to speak out to help effect the change we want to see in the world. I think we’re in one of those moments with regard to games and that it’s time for us all to think about where we stand and with whom we wish to be aligned.

If your allies are harassing and silencing people, is that really the company you wish to keep?

I, for one, will miss the amazing contributions of the women who have been chased out of writing about or producing games. I also am empathetic and supportive of those who are left. I hope that those of us in different positions can utilize our privilege to promote social justice and interesting, innovative games.