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[Massive Duck. C.M.]

It's not like maleness is some shield. The guy threatened to hire PI on her, I'm sure he'll have a lot of shit coming his way now.

There was always the option

not to hire the PI and announce it

 

[BiggNife]

Like Costia's take on the article in the OP ,Gamers might not be a "elite or hardcore" group anymore as gaming has diversified and become so pervasive. I did read the article, I just didnt understand it this way. (Still think one could say they were a Gamer, if they thought it was an identifying characteristic in their lives. But I dont mean to argue semantics)

Actually, I just didnt want to write too much and become embroiled in the fight. (hind sight is 20/20 I see now) Its obviously horrible whats happening to a lot of individuals because of this. Thats what I meant when I said this is depressing. I was not "most disturbed" by "gamers are dead" just thought that it seemed to be a resonating message, that might stick when this is over. There are a lot of people getting hurt personally and professionally by GG and that will also have lasting consequences on peoples lives.

Im very sorry if what I wrote, trying to express my sadness of this entire situation was at all ignorant of all the pertaining facts or offensive at all. I only read about this today.

I apologize if I came off a bit harsh before - it's clear that I misinterpreted what you were trying to say. It's just that I've seen so many Gamergaters use the "Gamers are dead" post as an example of how "SJWs are trying to ruin the industry" and I'm just so sick of all of it.

 

[danm999]

I'm not sure how it gets much more explicit than someone being on video stating that they were never interested in games. I've also seen what I consider convincing arguments that some threats were likely faked (by no means all though and with a large enough audience it's not really necessary).

That being said, If you have anything to the contrary I'd love to see it.

Please elaborate.

 

[andymcc]

Please elaborate.

Someone has discovered the Internet aristocrat

 

[Zomba13]

Please elaborate.

False Flags man. False Flags everywhere!

 

[JC Sera]

It's not like maleness is some shield. The guy threatened to hire PI on her, I'm sure he'll have a lot of shit coming his way now.

It was less the male-ness and more that he's not a current target of a hate campaign,
but yes you're correct on that.
I thought he didn't threaten just bragged about it.

 

[Buzzman]

Please elaborate.

I'm sure he's got some of the finest screengrabs with MSPaint scribbles on to show you.

 

[Crowbear]

I'm not sure how it gets much more explicit than someone being on video stating that they were never interested in games. I've also seen what I consider convincing arguments that some threats were likely faked (by no means all though and with a large enough audience it's not really necessary).

That being said, If you have anything to the contrary I'd love to see it.

1) I've heard her talk about games she's played and spoken to people who have met her in person and she has more than enough "gamer cred" to be critiquing them, not that actually it actually matters at all.

2) Claiming she faked the threats is completely insane and I'm guessing the "arguments" you saw were youtube videos from InternetAristocrat or Thunderf00t or Mundanematt or one of the dozen idiots like them who are obsessed with her for some reason.

 

[plagiarize]

I'm sure he's got some of the finest screengrabs with MSPaint scribbles on to show you.

don't make me choke on this Gatorade.

my favorite 'ANITA LIED!' thing that got linked at me:

http://www.antifeministtech.info/2014/09/anita-sarkeesian-definitely-lied-about-something/

There are at least two lies here. First, Sarkeesian implies she is a “woman in tech”, but that is not the case. Second, she says that she talked to “police” and “local police” after what would have been her initial report to the police. If her case was transferred to the FBI like the SFPD now says, then she wasn’t talking to the police or the “local police”. She would be talking to the FBI. (In either case, they would advise her not to talk about her death threats on social media, making it even more suspicious.)

The part that makes it hilarious is bolded.

HOLY SHIT THE SFPD ARE IN ON IT.

 

[Shmuely Bully]

Please elaborate.

As I'm not on twitter and am not particularly familiar with it I am admittedly not well qualified to judge the veracity of the arguments, but the gist of the argument was that some of the threats made were extremely recent when captured, were not retweeted to anyone other than the target when captured, and that the person who captured them (via screenshot) was not logged in at the time so they wouldn't see them. In short it would be easy for someone to make a new account, make threats, log out and capture it, and then send that to someone as proof.

Of course as I noted in that same post it isn't necessary. The addressable audience of ticked off and potentially unbalanced people is large enough for it to not be necessary.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

I'm not sure how it gets much more explicit than someone being on video stating that they were never interested in games. I've also seen what I consider convincing arguments that some threats were likely faked (by no means all though and with a large enough audience it's not really necessary).

That being said, If you have anything to the contrary I'd love to see it as I've been more of a casual observer to this trainwreck in the hopes that it will go away.

She's a fake gamer girl?! Holy shit, we should call the cops!

 

[Messofanego]

Please watch this video.

This video just made me realise how ironic it is that #notyourshield has been used as a shield by gamergate people!

"Minorities are welcome as long as they leave their identity at the door."

In other words, it was a trap!

 

[plagiarize]

As I'm not on twitter and am not particularly familiar with it I am admittedly not well qualified to judge the veracity of the arguments, but the gist of the argument was that some of the threats made were extremely recent when captured, were not retweeted to anyone other than the target when captured, and that the person who captured them (via screenshot) was not logged in at the time so they wouldn't see them. In short it would be easy for someone to make a new account, make threats, log out and capture it, and then send that to someone as proof.

Of course as I noted in that same post it isn't necessary. The addressable audience of ticked off and potentially unbalanced people is large enough for it to not be necessary.

Why am I now suspicious of anyone who unnecessarily uses lots of big words?

THANKS GAMERGATE.

 

[Hemi-PoweredDrone]

What show are you guys talking about, do I even wanna know?

She posted the yellow pages listing for the offices of that guy that threatened to get a PI hired to tail her.

So a doxxer is pissed because he was doxxed?

Golden rule, bitches. Learn it.

i turned it off. opted to take my dog on a long walk and got cat called by an old dude in a cadillac (i'm a longer-haired dude).

misogyny isn't real though.

Funny enough, that happened to me the other day, though it looked like the guy was in a Miata.

I wouldn't even be very attractive if was a woman (225 lbs, 6'2" guy), but apparently my big as is someone would want to drill with their dick. Of course he called me a fag when he saw my face.

But no, misogyny is totally not a thing.

 

[danm999]

As I'm not on twitter and am not particularly familiar with it I am admittedly not well qualified to judge the veracity of the arguments, but the gist of the argument was that some of the threats made were extremely recent when captured, were not retweeted to anyone other than the target when captured, and that the person who captured them (via screenshot) was not logged in at the time so they wouldn't see them. In short it would be easy for someone to make a new account, make threats, log out and capture it, and then send that to someone as proof.

Of course as I noted in that same post it isn't necessary. The addressable audience of ticked off and potentially unbalanced people is large enough for it to not be necessary.

If you read the OP you'll notice the 'heard it through the grapevine' thing you've got going on here is likely to get you into trouble.

 

[Shmuely Bully]

Why am I now suspicious of anyone who unnecessarily uses lots of big words?

THANKS GAMERGATE.

One of many reasons I haven't gotten into it much before. It's almost impossible to get into how you disagree with things said or done by Anita, Quinn, et al. without throwing yourself in with a bunch of assholes. I'd love for the whole thing to just go away.

 

[plagiarize]

This video just made me realise how ironic it is that #notyourshield has been used as a shield by gamergate people!

"Minorities are welcome as long as they leave their identity at the door."

In other words, it was a trap!

I'm proud to say I got that right away. If you're arguing with an admitted male anti feminist, and some apparent feminists who support gamergate rush to his aid, do what I did. Ask them if they'd have rushed to your aid if you were an anti feminist too. It's happened to me a couple of times.

One of many reasons I haven't gotten into it much before. It's almost impossible to get into how you disagree with things said or done by Anita, Quinn, et al. without throwing yourself in with a bunch of assholes. I'd love for the whole thing to just go away.

A very understandable position, and partly why I waited two months before calling anyone out for supporting the tag. Because anyone reasonable that disagreed with Anita's points, or anyone reasonable that thinks we have serious problems in gaming journalism that need addressing and calling out (and we do!), would have bailed out by then, if falling for it in the first place. Any reasonable people left are just in total denial to save face at this point, so it's hard to feel sorry for even them.

 

[Cyrano]

Why am I now suspicious of anyone who unnecessarily uses lots of big words?

THANKS GAMERGATE.

Zinsser would probably agree with you.

I dunno. I am always up in the air about necessitating simplification, but I think directness is equally important.

Though I will say that obfuscation and being an asshole tend to go hand-in-hand.

 

[Galactic Fork]

One of many reasons I haven't gotten into it much before. It's almost impossible to get into how you disagree with things said or done by Anita, Quinn, et al. without throwing yourself in with a bunch of assholes. I'd love for the whole thing to just go away.

But... You aren't disagreeing with anita. You're saying she fabricated death threats. There's a big difference. And when you get the information about her from a bunch of assholes, then yeah, you're throwing yourself in with them.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Just one thing I want to be sure to clarify here.

Zoe retweeted a Storify that had lots of information about the lawyer, part of which was the address he uses as, from what I gather, to be his professional address (as in, listed on Avvo, lawyer yellow-pages).

I know most of us are on the same page here, but I wanted to make that distinction.

 

[Zerokku]

Oh my god. I'm in tears haha.

https://twitter.com/supergreatfrien/status/525468327909818368

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Oh my god. I'm in tears haha.

https://twitter.com/supergreatfrien/status/525468327909818368

holy shit, that's good

 

[JC Sera]

Ok at that Milo guy say "Men are more harassed than women on the internet" I had to nope out for 10 minutes.

Spoiler

I know the reasons why thats an accurate statistic but jfc him twitsting it makes my stomach turn

Thank you to based Soraya for explaining the study instead of cherry picking one stat in it.
Her speaking has made me feel so less worse.

Just one thing I want to be sure to clarify here.

Zoe retweeted a Storify that had lots of information about the lawyer, part of which was the address he uses as, from what I gather, to be his professional address (as in, listed on Avvo, lawyer yellow-pages).

I know most of us are on the same page here, but I wanted to make that distinction.

Thank you for that. It is appreciated.

 

[Crowbear]

Oh my god. I'm in tears haha.

https://twitter.com/supergreatfrien/status/525468327909818368

These jokes crack me up every time. Definitely the best thing to come out of this fiasco.

 

[plagiarize]

Zinsser would probably agree with you.

I dunno. I am always up in the air about necessitating simplification, but I think directness is equally important.

Don't write like you're desperate to convince everyone that you're super clever. It's never a good look, and it never makes you look like the intellectual side of the debate to anyone outside it.

Certainly don't have everyone on your side adopt a very specific and strange vernacular, because that just makes you look like a cult of loons.

I've heard so much crap about narrative and agency and sjws and lws and blah blah blah blah. If you want people to understand your point maybe use the language of the people you're trying to reach?

I mean, sure, talking like you got bitten by a radioactive thesaurus probably impresses your friends at parties maybe. I guess. I just don't think it's helping anything in the whole gamergate mess.

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

One of many reasons I haven't gotten into it much before. It's almost impossible to get into how you disagree with things said or done by Anita, Quinn, et al. without throwing yourself in with a bunch of assholes. I'd love for the whole thing to just go away.

If you actually disagree and you want to talk about it the first thing you should do is actually have your own damn opinion and state something you personally believe instead of just passing on whatever rumors you have heard. Have a little conviction in your horribly misguided beliefs.

 

[danm999]

Oh my god. I'm in tears haha.

https://twitter.com/supergreatfrien/status/525468327909818368

Amazing.

 

[Messofanego]

I'm proud to say I got that right away. If you're arguing with an admitted male anti feminist, and some apparent feminists who support gamergate rush to his aid, do what I did. Ask them if they'd have rushed to your aid if you were an anti feminist too. It's happened to me a couple of times.

That is an interesting perspective. I hadn't followed the #notyourshield thing too much because it sounded like deluded gamers who wanted to be part of the GG group so bad and now thinking about it, as shields for criticism against GG being "white cis het" even though that by itself didn't mean they had much of an argument to go on. Like, let me use the traits I already have and didn't have to earn for to my advantage, with nothing else to add. Me just existing should be enough...somehow.

Now I'm tempted to start a femalebimuslimgamer account but then it might actually get doxxed :O

 

[Adnor]

That set the groundwork and lit the fuse, the Zoe Quinn blogpost was just when it all blew up. I'd love for gaming to just be you know..gaming. A means of escaping from everyday bullshit instead of a new front for it, but unfortunately people outside of the communities I frequent keep feeling the need to insert themselves and tell those who are already present how they should think, feel, and act.

Have you thought that those people "outside the communities you frequent" also just want to talk about gaming, use it as a mean of escaping from everyday bullshit but that they can't because of the overall gaming culture, and because of that they're voicing their opinions?

 

[Shmuely Bully]

But... You aren't disagreeing with anita. You're saying she fabricated death threats. There's a big difference. And when you get the information about her from a bunch of assholes, then yeah, you're throwing yourself in with them.

I fundamentally disagree with the idea that games need to aspire to anything other than entertainment (yes, even inclusion) unless creators choose to make their games do that. That is where my disagreement lies.

Have you thought that those people "outside the communities you frequent" also just want to talk about gaming, use it as a mean of escaping from everyday bullshit but that they can't because of the overall gaming culture, and because of that they're voicing their opinions?

They can, they choose not to. There is a difference.

 

[Cyrano]

Don't write like you're desperate to convince everyone that you're super clever. It's never a good look, and it never makes you look like the intellectual side of the debate to anyone outside it.

Certainly don't have everyone on your side adopt a very specific and strange vernacular, because that just makes you look like a cult of loons.

I've heard so much crap about narrative and agency and sjws and lws and blah blah blah blah. If you want people to understand your point maybe use the language of the people you're trying to reach?

I mean, sure, talking like you got bitten by a radioactive thesaurus probably impresses your friends at parties maybe. I guess. I just don't think it's helping anything in the whole gamergate mess.

I think it depends on context but in a conversation there's no need to show how good you are at words. Philosophy puts me to sleep as a result (in addition to being impossible to follow).

 

[Gentleman Jack]

One of many reasons I haven't gotten into it much before. It's almost impossible to get into how you disagree with things said or done by Anita, Quinn, et al. without throwing yourself in with a bunch of assholes. I'd love for the whole thing to just go away.

Take a step back and observe the semantics used here. Disagreements are effective when they are articulated specifically, not sprinkled around vaguely at targets. Do the 'well I disagree with the things done by [someone whose sins you refuse to enumerate] & etc.' thing and nobody will ever take you seriously. You say you disagree with something Anita said and you explain why. You say you disagree with something Z. Quinn did and you explain why. Reasonable people will not jump down your throat for a reasonable disagreement. Hand-wave it and you leave the door open to the worst assumptions because everyone's seen it enough times to recognize a pattern of blanket dismissal of female voices in gaming.

 

[KHarvey16]

I fundamentally disagree with the idea that games need to aspire to anything other than entertainment (yes, even inclusion) unless creators choose to make their games do that. That is where my disagreement lies.

I don't believe it's her or anyone's opinion that game makers need to do anything.

 

[jstripes]

I'd love for that to be the case. I haven't really been involved in this on either side and am hoping at this point that the noxious assholes on both ends wind up destroying each other, but this all started before Zoe Quinn and made up assertions about a particular journalist. It started with a liar exploiting the good intentions of people to piss on a community of which she was never a part.

That set the groundwork and lit the fuse, the Zoe Quinn blogpost was just when it all blew up. I'd love for gaming to just be you know..gaming. A means of escaping from everyday bullshit instead of a new front for it, but unfortunately people outside of the communities I frequent keep feeling the need to insert themselves and tell those who are already present how they should think, feel, and act.

Wait, what?

No, this started when Zoe Quinn's ex-boyfriend made a 10,000 word blog post about her. She didn't want any of this.

 

[Corpekata]

If you don't want to get thrown in with the assholes, don't spread the shitty rumors that the assholes came up with. You can dislike Anita Sarkeesian without stooping to Thunderf00t levels. If you aren't an asshole these rumors should have smelled fishy to you.

 

[Galactic Fork]

I fundamentally disagree with the idea that games need to aspire to anything other than entertainment (yes, even inclusion) unless creators choose to make their games do that. That is where my disagreement lies.



They can, they choose not to. There is a difference.

And where do you get the idea that Anita Sarkeesian wants to use force? She's giving her opinion. I'm really wondering where all this power people attribute to her comes from. Developers are free to ignore or listen to her as they see fit.

 

[Nintendojitsu]

https://twitter.com/Nintendo_Legend/status/525480125714812928

 

[More_Badass]

Oh my god. I'm in tears haha.

https://twitter.com/supergreatfrien/status/525468327909818368

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0rhYzgCUAE47RZ.png https://twitter.com/Nintendo_Legend/status/525480125714812928

The one good thing about GamerGate: a new meme

 

[Nintendojitsu]

https://twitter.com/Nintendo_Legend/status/525485290534604801

 

[Zerokku]

I fundamentally disagree with the idea that games need to aspire to anything other than entertainment (yes, even inclusion) unless creators choose to make their games do that. That is where my disagreement lies.

Watch this please.

http://blip.tv/foldablehuman/s4e7-gamergate-7071206

They can, they choose not to. There is a difference.

It's a lot more nuanced than that. It isn't remotely that black and white, especially in the current environment. Just look at Felicia Day yesterday.

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

Oh my god. I'm in tears haha.

https://twitter.com/supergreatfrien/status/525468327909818368

#Dead

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

I fundamentally disagree with the idea that games need to aspire to anything other than entertainment (yes, even inclusion) unless creators choose to make their games do that. That is where my disagreement lies.



They can, they choose not to. There is a difference.

No one is holding a gun to the president of Tecmo's head and saying "If those boobs bounce at all I am pulling the goddamn trigger!!"

It's just pointing to some commonly held depictions and saying, "hey, maybe we should take a look at this and think about what kinds of depictions of women are prevalent in this medium, and creators should consider themselves whether or not those are the kinds of depictions they really want to perpetuate. Which has actually happened thanks to the Anita Sarkeesian videos.

 

[andymcc]

And where do you get the idea that Anita Sarkeesian wants to use force? She's giving her opinion. I'm really wondering where all this power people attribute to her comes from. Developers are free to ignore or listen to her as they see fit.

Why, it's the monetary power granted by George Soros.

 

[plagiarize]

That is an interesting perspective. I hadn't followed the #notyourshield thing too much because it sounded like deluded gamers who wanted to be part of the GG group so bad and now thinking about it, as shields for criticism against GG being "white ces het" even though that by itself didn't mean they had much of an argument to go on. Like, let me use the traits I already have and didn't have to earn for to my advantage, with nothing else to add. Me just existing should be enough...somehow.

Now I'm tempted to start a femalebimuslimgamer account but then it might actually get doxxed :O

Musings... not disagreeing. I know you probably share a lot of the following feelings.

The thing is, I don't think you can really use 'YOU DON'T SPEAK FOR ME!' to shut someone up... when the majority of your gender/sexual orientation/race etc agree with the person you're trying to shut up.

And I really don't like the idea that we'd try to prevent any group from speaking out against bigotry aimed at another. With gender its is a little different, numbers game wise, but with minorities it's very difficult for them to achieve equal rights and better standing in society unless other people stand alongside them, due to them being an minority.

I can never know what it's like not to have white privilege because I've always had it. I roll my eyes when I hear a successful white straight cis male going on about how they 'earned' everything they have, when really, what they did was work hard to make good on the greater opportunities society provided them. You can't really detract from their hard work, but everyone should get those same opportunities, and everyone who works equally hard should be receiving the same reward.

It's like Common People by Pulp. The rich girl can never know what it's like to truly be poor because at any moment she can just extract herself from the situation. It's not really a criticism of her, for wanting to try to understand what it's like to be 'common' any more than I think me pointing out that I have privilege is a criticism of me and my standing on these issues... but it's an inescapable reality.

Only really by having gone from being an atheist in a country where no one gives a crap about that to one where I had no idea what I was doing when I casually mentioned that I was an atheist did I really start to understand what it was like to be part of a disliked minority... but even then, that's one I can easily hide to anyone I haven't met before should I feel like it.

I don't... but I always have the option.

And that shit's wrong. If people like me fight to hold onto it and refuse to stand on any side of these issues that reduces their own standing... then nothing improves. And I know that's a really hard thing for some people. I support renewable energy even if it means my taxes have to go up...

because I support renewable energy.

 

[Shmuely Bully]

Watch this please.

http://blip.tv/foldablehuman/s4e7-gamergate-7071206

It's a lot more nuanced than that. It isn't remotely that black and white, especially in the current environment. Just look at Felicia Day yesterday.

I will. Felicia Day is someone I respect quite a bit so I feel bad for her about what happened there.

 

[plagiarize]

And where do you get the idea that Anita Sarkeesian wants to use force? She's giving her opinion. I'm really wondering where all this power people attribute to her comes from. Developers are free to ignore or listen to her as they see fit.

Exactly. She posts videos on her own youtube channel, and when invited to be interviewed on the subject, or to host a talk on it, she obliges.

She doesn't advocate any kind of censorship, she merely highlights what she thinks are things in gaming that are harmful or areas that need improving.

I don't always agree with her on an issue by issue or game by game basis, but broadly speaking I think games would actually get better if more people listened to her. The writer of The Last of Us credits Sarkeesian's videos with improving the characterization of the female characters in that game... and I don't think there's many GamerGaters who are afraid of gaming looking more like The Last of Us.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Gaming should be whatever the audience wants to be.

People, including me, want it to be more inclusive.

 

[Adnor]

They can, they choose not to. There is a difference.

Or maybe when they try they are harrased until they stop talking. There's a big difference between choosing to not talk about something because they don't want to, and not talking because they're scared for their lives.

 

[kenta]

I fundamentally disagree with the idea that games need to aspire to anything other than entertainment (yes, even inclusion) unless creators choose to make their games do that. That is where my disagreement lies.



They can, they choose not to. There is a difference.

Just curious: have you watched one of Anita's videos all the way through?

 

[Wensih]

Just wondering has this 'movement' ever went after magazines like GameInformer? It would seem like a magazine that I get in the mail due to a video game store membership would fall under a lot of scrutiny in the ethics department, especially when the said magazine gets exclusive reveals and the store generates a lot of revenue through pre-orders...