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[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

Never forget.

Luke
"Da' fuck is this guy?"

 

[fizzelopeguss]

That face...leering rape mascot.

 

[Guzim]

Luke
"Da' fuck is this guy?"

Luke "Oh cool, one of their old Jedi buddies."

 

[Big One]

Luke
"Da' fuck is this guy?"

Don't you understand?! It's not even CLOSE to being the worst change! It makes SENSE! Lucas-sama has already explained that Anakin DIED INSIDE when he became Vader, meaning his spirit is before he became Darth Vader!

 

[THE-Pink-Dagger]

http://imgur.com/a/AiJG6

Pics of the unfuckered DVDs. (note: i did re-encode them to be anamorphic. they still look pretty decent)

Honestly, I like Hayden Christensen better on the shot (now spank me )

 

[Ushojax]

This is what kills me. Lucas could have got Christensen in during photography for ROTS, slapped some make-up/prosthetics on and made him look old. He could have got him to actually do a smile/look that matches up with the eyeline of the other two ghosts. Instead he uses some costume test where he practices his evil stare, slaps it on with no effort to age him or match the eyeline, and then explains it away with some bullshit about him dying when he became Darth Vader. Lucas is just so lazy. The first shot of him appearing looks fine. But that final one...

 

[Glass Joe]

One of the reasons people hate a change like the Ewok song has little to do with taste, or Nostalgia for its own sake. Nostalgia plays into it, but that's oversimplifying things.

It's because, for the people who love Star Wars (though I don't count myself among them), what happened in the original is a matter of historical record to them -- even if that history is fictional.

When you make a change after the fact, even one that may be objectively for the better, you inspire viewers to think, "But that's not the way it happened!"

Intellectually, people know these works are fiction, but they carry some serious emotional resonance. These movies matter to people. The stories we've chosen as favorites help us self-define who we are.

But if even some small aspects of the story change, then that story is no longer the same story, and those who define themselves by those stories lose something. Even when the change is just getting rid of a goofy Ewok song.

(Lucas isn't making these changes for people who've seen and love the series. He's thinking of a legacy that goes beyond his lifetime. He's making them for people who have yet to see the series. He wants these new versions to be "the way it happened" to them.)

Yeah. To me it would be like If Paul or Ringo did a bunch of overdubs on Sgt. Pepper and pulled the original from circulation, while also placing new solo songs in the middle of the track listing. Even if the changes sounded better and the solo songs were hits, it'd be completely destroying an historical and culturally significant piece of media. Same with this Star Wars crap Lucas is doing.

Whenever a work of art is released, hey, change it all you want but keep the original intact too. Years from now, will people will be thinking "Wow, computer graphics sucked in 1977" when referring to the 1997 special editions? Even him replacing that goofy Ewok song a few years back is too much for me. That's not how it happened, he's changing the legacy. The legacy should include warts and bad SFX and all.

I won't be buying the Blu-Ray, but I would if the originals were included (with the appropriate treatment). In fact, I'd probably consider whatever add-ons George keeps putting in as "fun" instead of "aggravating."

 

[Medalion]

This is what kills me. Lucas could have got Christensen in during photography for ROTS, slapped some make-up/prosthetics on and made him look old. He could have got him to actually do a smile/look that matches up with the eyeline of the other two ghosts. Instead he uses some costume test where he practices his evil stare, slaps it on with no effort to age him or match the eyeline, and then explains it away with some bullshit about him dying when he became Darth Vader. Lucas is just so lazy.

Why would they age Anakin?

If you go by Lucas' logic, he died during the events of ROTS so his look there was how he last looked in the movie, minus his horrible burns

 

[BFIB]

Never forget.

Luke: I sure hope myself and Leia's conception was consensual.

 

[MrPing1000]

Question: the 2006 DVDs are they the 1997 version or the 2004 version? (not the bonus discs obviously)

 

[mattp]

Don't you understand?! It's not even CLOSE to being the worst change! It makes SENSE! Lucas-sama has already explained that Anakin DIED INSIDE when he became Vader, meaning his spirit is before he became Darth Vader!

notsureifserious.gif

 

[mattp]

Question: the 2006 DVDs are they the 1997 version or the 2004 version? (not the bonus discs obviously)

2004 editions w/ bonus discs containing rips off the original trilogy laser discs

 

[Htown]

So I'm not buying these.

If you do, you're part of the problem.

And incidentally, nobody would care that Lucas made changes to these movies, if they weren't ALMOST UNIVERSALLY TERRIBLE CHANGES.

Everything that amounts to more than an improved special effects shot in these updated editions is stupid, unnecessary and detrimental to the movies.

The Han shooting thing, the stupid new scream from Obi-Wan, the "NOOOOO", the dance number in Jabba's palace, it's GARBAGE. All of it. In every single spot where Lucas has had to make a decision that changes the content of these movies, he has made the WRONG decision every time.

What somebody needs to do is temporarily kidnap Lucas, tie him down, then give the original Star Wars movies to the folks who did the new Star Trek editions, let them improve the effects and leave everything else as it was, and then release that onto Blu-Ray. Then let Lucas out and show him what an idiot he was.

 

[Ushojax]

Why would they age Anakin?

If you go by Lucas' logic, he died during the events of ROTS so his look there was how he last looked in the movie, minus his horrible burns

Lucas logic on Anakin's ghost is just some crap he made up to explain a lazy edit he made, it makes zero sense as part of the story. If Anakin died when he became Vader, who was it who threw Palpatine down the shaft? An old-looking Christensen at least wouldn't change the story.

 

[Big One]

notsureifserious.gif

Considering I tore about defenders of Hayden in RotJ a couple of pages ago...trust me, I was kidding. Hayden in RotJ is an abortion.

I really can't stand these change apologists. Good or bad changes. None of that matters, the original print still needs to be treated with the same respect and availability. Special Editions should be called "Enhanced Editions" cause it gives the wrong impression.

 

[Glass Joe]

I might not have been the brightest kid on the block, but I remember seeing that part back in the day and wondering to myself "Who the heck is that guy?"I just wrote about how movies should NOT be changed, but here I can kind of understand what George was going for.

 

[MattKeil]

Lucas logic on Anakin's ghost is just some crap he made up to explain a lazy edit he made, it makes zero sense as part of the story. If Anakin died when he became Vader, who was it who threw Palpatine down the shaft? An old-looking Christensen at least wouldn't change the story.

Lucas views the series as one saga, viewed in order. If the films were shot in story order, when you shot the final Force ghost shot you would use Hayden, because he's the actor associated with the character of Anakin Skywalker. The performance is badly directed, but it is a very defensible decision from a filmmaking standpoint.

 

[Duane Cunningham]

Yub Nub is better, and it's not overboard to say so. It's a typical, boring ending without it. With it, it's a strange but fun piece of movie history, and a fitting ending to the unique-ness that Star Wars has. Vader's strange, scarred head, seeing At-Ats for the first time, it's all strange yet iconic, and the original Ewok song is right in line with those things. The new John Williams score is a very bland, non-memorable sci-fi movie ending.

 

[Big One]

Lucas views the series as one saga, viewed in order. If the films were shot in story order, when you shot the final Force ghost shot you would use Hayden, because he's the actor associated with the character of Anakin Skywalker.

What the fuck? No it wouldn't. Hayden wasn't even born when the original Star Wars was made.

Also watching them in order ruins the tension for the most part, especially the discovering of Darth Vader and Princess Leia which is meant to be a major shock. Of course both are pop culture iconic spoilers that everyone knows about...but when you show these movies to kids, they're just gonna be underwhelmed when it's first revealed.

Lucas made the "middle" of Star Wars because he wanted viewers to see that first, initially. Now with the prequel trilogy he's changed his mind.

 

[alr1ght]

Lucas views the series as one saga, viewed in order. If the films were shot in story order, when you shot the final Force ghost shot you would use Hayden, because he's the actor associated with the character of Anakin Skywalker. The performance is badly directed, but it is a very defensible decision from a filmmaking standpoint.

explain Ewan Mcgregor becoming Alec Guiness

 

[Liquidsnake]

Luke
"Da' fuck is this guy?"

Don't you guys think that after watching 6 movies, that you have more of an emotional attachment to Hayden Vader? I teared up a little when I first saw this altered version. I Like it.

I only watch them in order now. Just Like George wants me too.

 

[UrbanRats]

What's this new "obiwan scream" talk?

 

[Qwomo]

Don't you guys think that after watching 6 movies, that you have more of an emotional attachment to Hayden Vader? I teared up a little when I first saw this altered version. I Like it.

hahaha

what the fuck

 

[Medalion]

I might not have been the brightest kid on the block, but I remember seeing that part back in the day and wondering to myself "Who the heck is that guy?"I just wrote about how movies should NOT be changed, but here I can kind of understand what George was going for.

I don't think you were the only one who thought who the fuck was that guy at the end either

 

[Duane Cunningham]

Don't you guys think that after watching 6 movies, that you have more of an emotional attachment to Hayden Vader? I teared up a little when I first saw this altered version. I Like it.

Hayden Vader is in two of the six movies, and neither of them is Return of the Jedi, AKA the one that the viewer has just watched for 90 minutes.

I might not have been the brightest kid on the block, but I remember seeing that part back in the day and wondering to myself "Who the heck is that guy?"I just wrote about how movies should NOT be changed, but here I can kind of understand what George was going for.

Had you just gone to the bathroom five minutes earlier?

 

[wwm0nkey]

What's this new "obiwan scream" talk?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0EUjobdavw

 

[Ushojax]

Lucas views the series as one saga, viewed in order. If the films were shot in story order, when you shot the final Force ghost shot you would use Hayden, because he's the actor associated with the character of Anakin Skywalker. The performance is badly directed, but it is a very defensible decision from a filmmaking standpoint.

I'm saying that using Hayden would be fine if they made him look older. As it is it makes no sense. The story makes no sense if a young looking Anakin appears at the end. That doesn't mean children won't understand have an easier time recognising him, they will. They also won't understand that Lucas just crapped up his own story. If Anakin died 20 years before ANH, why did Vader kill the Emperor? Why did Padme and Luke say there was still good in him? Anakin has to still be alive for the story to work, he redeems himself and dies as an old Anakin Skywalker.

 

[mattp]

lucas' bullshit "anakin died when he turned. so young anakin is the last time he was himself" is totally bullshit because the entire point of the scene where he saves luke(ruined by george, now) is that he gets redemption

he was "good" again before he died
his ghost was right the first time

fuck george lucas

 

[Liquidsnake]

Hayden Vader is in two of the six movies, and neither of them is Return of the Jedi, AKA the one that the viewer has just watched for 90 minutes.



Had you just gone to the bathroom five minutes earlier?

I don't know, I am 34, and I have no problem with the changes. I like almost everything. I don't get the raping of my childhood stuff. It doesn't make sense to me. I thought the end change to ROTJ was awesome. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Big One]

I don't know, I am 34, and I have no problem with the changes. I like almost everything. I don't get the raping of my childhood stuff. It doesn't make sense to me. I thought the end change to ROTJ was awesome. Just my 2 cents.

Well you like Hayden's character. Normal people do not.

 

[Pie Lord]

I don't know, I am 34, and I have no problem with the changes. I like almost everything. I don't get the raping of my childhood stuff. It doesn't make sense to me. I thought the end change to ROTJ was awesome. Just my 2 cents.

This is not going to end well...

 

[Liquidsnake]

Well you like Hayden's character. Normal people do not.

I know I don't get it. I don't understand everyone's hate for him. I thought he did fine, and by ROTS was in peak form.

 

[Medalion]

I have no problem with Hayden, he was just given a poorly written character and no good direction how to play it

As mentioned hundreds of time already, that ROTJ scene with Hayden was for a wardrobe test and he didn't even know he was being filmed to be put in that context

 

[BFIB]

I don't know, I am 34, and I have no problem with the changes. I like almost everything. I don't get the raping of my childhood stuff. It doesn't make sense to me. I thought the end change to ROTJ was awesome. Just my 2 cents.

 

[MattKeil]

What the fuck? No it wouldn't. Hayden wasn't even born when the original Star Wars was made.

Wow.

Also watching them in order ruins the tension for the most part, especially the discovering of Darth Vader and Princess Leia which is meant to be a major shock. Of course both are pop culture iconic spoilers that everyone knows about...but when you show these movies to kids, they're just gonna be underwhelmed when it's first revealed.

I can tell you firsthand this is not true, and in fact the viewing order simply changes the nature of the dramatic tension in Empire. The kid in question in this instance was incredibly worried that Anakin (a character she had grown to love in the prequels...don't ask me how or why) was going to hurt or kill his own son, or that Luke was going to kill the father he always wanted to meet. She was concerned about both characters' well being, and she was sympathetic to Luke's reaction when Vader finally revealed the truth. It was no less of a powerful moment, it was just different from the way we experienced it in 1980. And you know what? That's okay.

Lucas made the "middle" of Star Wars because he wanted viewers to see that first, initially. Now with the prequel trilogy he's changed his mind.

No. Lucas made the middle first because he considered it more filmable than the first three episodes, because it's a smaller story with fewer characters and smaller battles not involving huge armies. A lot of his story regarding the order of shooting and how many films there were originally meant to be have changed over the years, but this aspect of it has not. He picked 4-6 because it was not only action-packed but doable on the budget he had to work with.

explain Ewan Mcgregor becoming Alec Guiness

Alec Guinness has played Obi-Wan for three straight films at that point. He is the actor now associated with the character for the viewer of 1 through 6 in order. Nobody, whether they've viewed the films in release order or story order, knows who the hell the random old guy is in the ghost shot.

Using the actor who played Anakin outside of the armor makes cinematic and storytelling sense. My only issue with it is that Christensen doesn't seem to even make a cursory effort and mirroring Shaw's kindly smile and the rest of his performance. He doesn't look like he belongs in the shot, not because it's a bad decision to put Anakin's primary actor in the shot, but because he was poorly directed. Edit: Haha, a wardrobe test? Well, that explains that. Re-using footage, re-using dialogue, now cannibalizing screen tests for final performances. Brilliant.

 

[Pie Lord]

http://i27.tinypic.com/6eohfo.jpg

Going off topic here, but does anyone know what the story is behind this? I know it's been around for a good while now, but I've never learned anything about its context.

 

[I'm an expert]

The changes don't bother me whatsoever and I grew up on the original trilogy like most people here. I guess I'm one of those "not normal" fans that actually enjoys the prequels a great amount (Phantom Menace is actually my favorite of the 6). But they SHOULD include the original versions of all the films on the Blu-Rays.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

I'm saying that using Hayden would be fine if they made him look older. As it is it makes no sense. The story makes no sense if a young looking Anakin appears at the end. That doesn't mean children won't understand have an easier time recognising him, they will. They also won't understand that Lucas just crapped up his own story. If Anakin died 20 years before ANH, why did Vader kill the Emperor? Why did Padme and Luke say there was still good in him? Anakin has to still be alive for the story to work, he redeems himself and dies as an old Anakin Skywalker.

Not to mention young Anakin was the selfish guy who was jealous of Obi-Wan and killed all the Tusken Raiders in that village including the women and the children. Under that logic he, even though he's dead, could probably turn to the dark side again anytime.

 

[Glass Joe]

Had you just gone to the bathroom five minutes earlier?

It's been a while since I've seen Jedi and I haven't seen it as much as others on here, so maybe I'm forgetting a scene. But if you're referring to Darth Vader's unmasking, then yes, I didn't make the connection as a child to that actor. Bald guy, half of his face covered, wound make up all over his face... Maybe I'm bad at that stuff, but it wasn't obvious at all to me back then.

 

[Sibylus]

People talk of RoTS like it was the best of the prequels, but for me it was the final dagger. No more chances for redemption for George, it's now run off the tracks forever, no more redoes or "maybe next movie will be better" hopes. Phantom Menace was terrible. But the damage it did was slight in comparison to II and III, and there was at least some hope when the credits started rolling.

 

[Big One]

Wow.

A fact is a fact. Hayden was born in 1981, it would be impossible for him to be cast as Anakin Skywalker if Lucas made the prequels first.

You also have to take in account that Lucas' original inception of Star Wars pre-episode 4 was drastically different from the prequels we got. Lucas probably had different things in mind at the time. The only thing that is even remotely similar to the original scripts is some reused character names, and the focus on politics.

I can tell you firsthand this is not true, and in fact the viewing order simply changes the nature of the dramatic tension in Empire. The kid in question in this instance was incredibly worried that Anakin (a character she had grown to love in the prequels...don't ask me how or why) was going to hurt or kill his own son, or that Luke was going to kill the father he always wanted to meet. She was concerned about both characters' well being, and she was sympathetic to Luke's reaction when Vader finally revealed the truth. It was no less of a powerful moment, it was just different from the way we experienced it in 1980. And you know what? That's okay.

No it's not. You're not supposed to sympathetic with Darth Vader till Return of the Jedi. Darth Vader is not really a character till Return of the Jedi, he's just a plot device.

No. Lucas made the middle first because he considered it more filmable than the first three episodes, because it's a smaller story with fewer characters and smaller battles not involving huge armies. A lot of his story regarding the order of shooting and how many films there were originally meant to be have changed over the years, but this aspect of it has not. He picked 4-6 because it was not only action-packed but doable on the budget he had to work with.

This is true, but what I said is also true. He chose it because he wanted to show the world that part of Star Wars first. It isn't just because he had to "deal with it" he chose it specifically for the purpose of getting the audience into the lore and story. The two sequel trilogies were also similar to this, and you know what? He didn't choose those when he easily could've.

 

[Escape Goat]

No it's not. You're not supposed to sympathetic with Darth Vader till Return of the Jedi. Darth Vader is not really a character till Return of the Jedi, he's just a plot device.

Hah, I never really thought about it that way. You're totally right. But hes a badass plot device.

 

[Ushojax]

People talk of RoTS like it was the best of the prequels, but for me it was the final dagger. No more chances for redemption for George, it's now run off the tracks forever, no more redoes or "maybe next movie will be better" hopes. Phantom Menace was terrible. But the damage it did was slight in comparison to II and III, and there was at least some hope when the credits started rolling.

Lucas should never have written the films on his own and probably shouldn't have directed them either. As an ideas man he's great. As a director of actors and a writer he is down there with Uwe Boll.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Why do they always say "random old guy", did you not watch the fucking film, the unmasking and death scene is the emotional climax of the movie. (arguable the trilogy)

 

[Risette]

The force ghost change makes no sense. It never made sense to me as a kid, and still doesn't. If you try to make sense of it, it completely invalidates Vader's redemption, which is the emotional climax of the entire series. It has nothing to do with "preserving the original!!!" (which I haven't seen) but rather.. making sense.

Spoiler

Yes, the Hayden ghost version of ROTJ was the one I saw as a kid. I'm young-ish.

 

[Qwomo]

I know I don't get it. I don't understand everyone's hate for him. I thought he did fine, and by ROTS was in peak form.

hahaha so good

A+ trolling

 

[joeyjoejoeshabadoo]

The force ghost change makes no sense. It never made sense to me as a kid, and still doesn't. If you try to make sense of it, it completely invalidates Vader's redemption, which is the emotional climax of the entire series. It has nothing to do with "preserving the original!!!" (which I haven't seen) but rather.. making sense.

Spoiler

Yes, the Hayden ghost version of ROTJ was the one I saw as a kid. I'm young-ish.

Jesus Christ, I'm only 30 this cannot happen! I'm not that old.

 

[mattp]

Why do they always say "random old guy", did you not watch the fucking film, the unmasking and death scene is the emotional climax of the movie. (arguable the trilogy)

this

 

[Ushojax]

Why do they always say "random old guy", did you not watch the fucking film, the unmasking and death scene is the emotional climax of the movie. (arguable the trilogy)

Because people are dumb. Some people thought Snape was Harry Potter's dad after DH2, they think all kinds of dumb shit.

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

Jesus Christ, I'm only 30 this cannot happen! I'm not that old.

Well...your avatar is taken from a film that's 20 years old.