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Halo Lore Thread

Darkmakaimura

Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Was there ever such a thing as a planet with a built-in Slipspace Drive? Like, you know, for Forerunners to basically create a sort of mobile planet with interstellar travel? I'm not talking about just opening up a Slipspace portal and pushing a planet through but an actual Slipspace engine within a world.
 

Rookwood

Banned
As much as I love Halo, I have to admit I feel alienated after Halo 4. I primarily played the games and didn't read any of the book (with the exception of Reach) or comics outside of that. It's like 343i just didn't consider non-book reading fans like myself, who are - I imagine - in the majority, and just went ahead with all this mystifying, added on Forerunner lore.

If it wasn't for Chief and Cortana's story in Halo 4, I'd probably be a lot more disappointed with the game than I already am. I sincerely hope Halo 5 is different.
 
Was there ever such a thing as a planet with a built-in Slipspace Drive? Like, you know, for Forerunners to basically create a sort of mobile planet with interstellar travel? I'm not talking about just opening up a Slipspace portal and pushing a planet through but an actual Slipspace engine within a world.
I think shield worlds have the capability to do something like this. They teleported the Halos around the galaxy in the Forerunner trilogy, whilst i don't think it's been done I guess it's possible
 

Darkmakaimura

Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
I think shield worlds have the capability to do something like this. They teleported the Halos around the galaxy in the Forerunner trilogy, whilst i don't think it's been done I guess it's possible
Some Shield Worlds are encased in Slipspace bubbles but they never teleported Halos around to my knowledge. That was the Ark.
 

Darkmakaimura

Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Didn't the the Forerunner AI teleport the Halos around after the Primordial turned him to his side?
Dunno, but I'm guessing the AI activated an external device to do it. I don't think an AI would internally have the capability to open a Slipspace portal of that size.
 
Feet. Not meters. Grunts are about the size of middle schoolers.

They're about as tough as doping high schoolers, though. They're more stout than the overall more lengthy, wiry humans they have to face. Spec Ops Grunts can seemingly heft around Fuel Rod Cannons and even Plasma Launchers unassisted by any phys-augment tech compared to Chief. They're also apparently crustacean in nature, hence the somewhat crabby silhouette (just with two legs), so it's safe to assume they've got some decent upper body strength.

Just, y'know, not compared to a seven-foot-tall war machine that's capable of flipping 200-ton transport platforms with no hands. On any difficulty not named Easy, most can also survive at least one punch from Chief. Think about the kind of shit he pulls and how strong you'd need to be to not only tank, but survive a punch from him.
 

Caayn

Member
If a grunt can be 4'5 to 5'6, and Master Chief is 7'2, the scale seems really messed up. They don't look nearly that big.
Grunts are mostly hunched forward a bit and not standing straight up in the games. Making them look shorter than they really are ;)
 

Caayn

Member
A loaded fuel rod is 23.3 kg so to totter around with it like they do they're probably quite strong.
Halo_Wars_Grunt.jpg
 
Grunts are mostly hunched forward a bit and not standing straight up in the games. Making them look shorter than they really are ;)

Googled a bit and found this pic

Grunt-Grenade-dimensions.gif


No idea if it's true or not, but this is what I see if a grunt is 5'6, that the scale for things seems strange.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
Ew @ those human fingers.

The proportions of Halo Wars's models are all really weird. Like the chests of Spartans, for example.

Well, that's intentional. They have to essentially be caricatures of their normal proportions so that they can read from a bird's eye view. I think Graeme Devine pointed out that for the Warthogs jumping over obstacles to look "right", they basically had to have them go 30 feet in the air.

Personally I wish they'd used the Mk IV we saw in Wars for stuff like The Package and Forward Unto Dawn, because it looks like the logical progression to Mk V and VI, as opposed to "it's basically Mk VI, then it retrogressed, then it became Mk VI again."
 

Tzeentch

Member
Was there ever such a thing as a planet with a built-in Slipspace Drive? Like, you know, for Forerunners to basically create a sort of mobile planet with interstellar travel? I'm not talking about just opening up a Slipspace portal and pushing a planet through but an actual Slipspace engine within a world.
-- High Charity is the largest object to have its own slipspace drive that we've seen (or have a firm datapoint on). The Halos were sent via vast locked-point portals that appeared to be the primary "highways" of the Forerunners.

-- Onyx was locked away in a slipspace bubble but it appeared to be anchored in some way.

-- Greg Bear added a LOT of very fascinating bits regarding slipspace that will be interesting to see explored. For example, humans appear to use unmediated slipspace drives that they built from scratch - something the Forerunners could not, or would not, do.
 

LordOfChaos

Member
A loaded fuel rod is 23.3 kg so to totter around with it like they do they're probably quite strong.

They are very strong, just walk/run awkwardly. IIRC one ripped a marines arms off with its bare hands in the novels. They're just shit tacticians which makes them the joke race/cannon fodder. Also that the covanant probably don't allow them much education, as they seem to have decent brains, they learn multiple human languages faster than other races and are used to monitor human radio traffic.

And I'm guessing the middle schooler thing was aimed at the low range of that height, the 5 foot 6 is at the tallest range of grunts. 4 foot 5 to 5 6, so around 5 foot average I guess. Not tiny, but I'd still be looking down at it.

They only seem small in the games because you're usually 7 foot spartans.

For example, humans appear to use unmediated slipspace drives that they built from scratch - something the Forerunners could not, or would not, do.

Meaning? How did the forerunners make them then, surely not all precursor remanents? Or do you mean covanant?
 

Tzeentch

Member
Meaning? How did the forerunners make them then, surely not all precursor remanents? Or do you mean covanant?
Forerunner drives required a small crystal flake from a core that the Builders controlled -- and (IMO) implied that it was a Precursor artifact that the Forerunners could not replicate. Expended chips were used as a decorative element in the capital.

Unmediated (no crystal) slipspace travel was regarded as extremely dangerous.

I guessed that half of the ship was matter and perhaps a third fuel, reaction mass,
and of course the central flake of the slipspace drive, chipped from the original core, still closely held in a location known only to the Master Builder, chief of rate and all guilds, the greatest of the great in engineering … possibly the most powerful Forerunner in the ecumene.

Then a legion of revolutionary Warrior commanders decided to forego crystal mediated slipspace and instead flew twenty attack squadrons "naked" through a non manifold array, bypassing the Jat-Krula defenses. The passage was savage. Their squadrons suffered fifty-percent losses-but the remaining ships emerged within the boundary and quickly overwhelmed fourteen key systems.

“A great moment is coming,” the young councilor told me as we followed a broad hallway equipped with high, rotating sculptures of quantum-engineered crystal. Soon, the walls themselves were decorated with regular patterns of the same sort of crystal. Splendid Dust proudly explained that these were spent slipspace flakes … many millions of them. Truly, the ecumene was ancient and powerful. Truly, that would never change—I hoped.
 
Forerunner drives required a small crystal flake from a core that the Builders controlled -- and (IMO) implied that it was a Precursor artifact that the Forerunners could not replicate. Expended chips were used as a decorative element in the capital.

Unmediated (no crystal) slipspace travel was regarded as extremely dangerous.
I need to re-read the trilogy.
 

Caayn

Member
Slightly off-topic but has there been any word yet on a waypoint app for the Xbox One? I'm surprised that we don't have anything like that yet.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
Slightly off-topic but has there been any word yet on a waypoint app for the Xbox One? I'm surprised that we don't have anything like that yet.

I think the site is mobile-optimized enough that you could snap it, but yeah, a (new) dedicated application would be great.

I need to re-read the trilogy.

It's easily to miss the details in Bear's books, but they definitely hold up to repeated readings.
 

Darkmakaimura

Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Forerunner drives required a small crystal flake from a core that the Builders controlled -- and (IMO) implied that it was a Precursor artifact that the Forerunners could not replicate. Expended chips were used as a decorative element in the capital.

Unmediated (no crystal) slipspace travel was regarded as extremely dangerous.
Did those crystals ever wear out after use? I would assume not.

Ancient Forerunners were ridiculous powered by most sci-fi standards. The Forerunners could take on the likes of SW or ST and the really scary part is the Precursors were even many, many steps above them. I'm partially convinced the Precursors made the universe. They seem to predate it and they consider it a living being. That's why pretty much it's been said they purposely let themselves be defeated.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
Did those crystals ever wear out after use? I would assume not.

Ancient Forerunners were ridiculous powered by most sci-fi standards. The Forerunners could take on the likes of SW or ST and the really scary part is the Precursors were even many, many steps above them. I'm partially convinced the Precursors made the universe. They seem to predate it and they consider it a living being. That's why pretty much it's been said they purposely let themselves be defeated.

I'd vote against Precursors as universe-creators, just because even by Forerunner standards being around for billions of years as an advanced society seems impossible. No civilization can last that long.
 

Darkmakaimura

Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
I'd vote against Precursors as universe-creators, just because even by Forerunner standards being around for billions of years as an advanced society seems impossible. No civilization can last that long.
Precursors claim to predate the universe, thus being older than 14 billion years. It's mentioned they could possibly be 100 billion years old, whatever that would mean if they predate this space-time. More than likely they originate from a previous or alternate universe, but that's my assumption.

Here's the quote from the book.

The Gravemind tells us something impossible to understand— that most of what has been gathered comes from before there were stars. We do not believe in such a time, but the Mind insists … The life-patterns and living wisdom of a hundred billion years.

Bear, Greg (2013-03-19). Halo: Silentium (Forerunner) (p. 322). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.
Also should note that Precursors are transsentient beings and don't even really have a physical form. Their current form is the Flood.

As far as creating this universe, that's just my far out theory. However, they know the universe is a living being and can utilize the 'neural physics', which allowed them to manipulate and warp reality itself.
 
Did those crystals ever wear out after use? I would assume not.

Ancient Forerunners were ridiculous powered by most sci-fi standards. The Forerunners could take on the likes of SW or ST and the really scary part is the Precursors were even many, many steps above them. I'm partially convinced the Precursors made the universe. They seem to predate it and they consider it a living being. That's why pretty much it's been said they purposely let themselves be defeated.

You reaaaaally need to read more Sci Fi.

Seriously.

The Forerunners are children compared to some series. Especially fucking Brian Baxter.
 

Chettlar

Banned
Well, that's intentional. They have to essentially be caricatures of their normal proportions so that they can read from a bird's eye view. I think Graeme Devine pointed out that for the Warthogs jumping over obstacles to look "right", they basically had to have them go 30 feet in the air.

Personally I wish they'd used the Mk IV we saw in Wars for stuff like The Package and Forward Unto Dawn, because it looks like the logical progression to Mk V and VI, as opposed to "it's basically Mk VI, then it retrogressed, then it became Mk VI again."

Well that makes sense, but in the cut scenes, that doesn't necessarily have to be the case.

Besides, don't they use different models anyway.
 

Darkmakaimura

Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
You reaaaaally need to read more Sci Fi.

Seriously.

The Forerunners are children compared to some series. Especially fucking Brian Baxter.
I know this. I know Xeelee, Downstreamers, The Culture, Time Lords, etc. are sick in power compared to the Haloverse. I was thinking of more well known universes like SW or ST and even Mass Effect. On top of that, it is possible that Precursors are on Xeelee type levels but we don't know enough about them yet except they are immensely powerful.
 

LordOfChaos

Member
Did those crystals ever wear out after use? I would assume not.

Ancient Forerunners were ridiculous powered by most sci-fi standards. The Forerunners could take on the likes of SW or ST and the really scary part is the Precursors were even many, many steps above them. I'm partially convinced the Precursors made the universe. They seem to predate it and they consider it a living being. That's why pretty much it's been said they purposely let themselves be defeated.

I think the Precursor timeline predating the big bang thing is more related to them spending time in alternate time dimensions, so they as a society had more than 13.7 billion years of advancement even though they began well after the universe.

Galaxy shaping, sure, multi-galaxy shaping even. But not universe forming.

The Forerunners are children compared to some series. Especially fucking Brian Baxter.

There are many in all of fiction above them, sure. But they're still in the top 90 percentiles, I would think. Their production rates alone (building planets which build robots which build planets, the kind of material required for that) are insanely impressive. Spending a lot of time in /r/whowouldwin definitely shows they're high up there. Any society with time manipulation no doubt beats them (as mentioned, Xeelee, downstreamers, timelords, Q, etc), and a bunch without it (War in Heaven Necrons for one), but just because there's a lot of fiction more powerful doesn't mean they're not very, very high up there in fiction. They'd probably stomp the Imperium of Man, and that's from Warhammer with its insaneballs fuck-physics attitude. Fiction is just so broad.

Great sub, by the way:
http://www.reddit.com/r/whowouldwin/search?q=forerunners&restrict_sr=on
 

Darkmakaimura

Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
I think the Precursor timeline predating the big bang thing is more related to them spending time in alternate time dimensions, so they as a society had more than 13.7 billion years of advancement even though they began well after the universe.

Galaxy shaping, sure, multi-galaxy shaping even. But not universe forming.
Like I said, the universe forming is just my own wacky theory and nothing more.

But, the other evidence they predate the universe is the mention of the time before stars in that quote. There was also another line somewhere regarding the alternate universe called the Glow and how it existed as part of our universe or prior to it. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your what saying but going on the writings and what people have said on various other forums, it's assumed the Precursors predate the known universe. Unless you're agreeing with that and saying they probably existed in an alternate space-time before our universe came into being, which is what I would imagine.

There are many in all of fiction above them, sure. But they're still in the top 90 percentiles, I would think. Their production rates alone (building planets which build robots which build planets, the kind of material required for that) are insanely impressive. Spending a lot of time in /r/whowouldwin definitely shows they're high up there. Any society with time manipulation no doubt beats them (as mentioned, Xeelee, downstreamers, timelords, Q, etc), and a bunch without it (War in Heaven Necrons for one), but just because there's a lot of fiction more powerful doesn't mean they're not very, very high up there in fiction. They'd probably stomp the Imperium of Man, and that's from Warhammer with its insaneballs fuck-physics attitude. Fiction is just so broad.

Great sub, by the way:
http://www.reddit.com/r/whowouldwin/search?q=forerunners&restrict_sr=on
Yeah and that's just the Forerunners. The Precursors are more on the levels mentioned with the more power house beings like Xeelee and the like. But again, there's certain things we don't know about the Precursors, like if they could even time travel. Forerunners did have limited time travel capabilities so I would assume Precursors had some idea about it. Really hoping we get a little more info on them. I'd love to see what a Precursor and Star Roads look like.
 

Tzeentch

Member
Did those crystals ever wear out after use? I would assume not..
-- They did wear out. Although how or at what rate is never said.
"It has carried us well. But we will need to replenish the slipspace core before we send it to her."

Also should note that Precursors are transsentient beings and don't even really have a physical form. Their current form is the Flood.
-- That doesn't appear to be entirely accurate. The Flood are a particular degenerate form originating from Precursors, but they were "Flood" before the surviving Precursor reached out and saw their potential to sow misery.
 

Darkmakaimura

Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
That doesn't appear to be entirely accurate. The Flood are a particular degenerate form originating from Precursors, but they were "Flood" before the surviving Precursor reached out and saw their potential to sow misery.
Right, just meant to say Flood are the degenerate form of the Precursors. I just meant they they're not two separate beings exactly. I don't even think the Flood can use Precursor technology until they reach the Key Mind stage. That's when they start warping reality with their presence and become very, very scary.

In fact, I might be wrong but there may still be original Precursors out there who didn't do the whole powder thing and come back as the corrupt Flood.

We also have those unidentified aliens who crashed on Installation 04. I remember some people thinking possible surviving Forerunners, but I'm thinking it's a race we haven't seen yet.
 
We also have those unidentified aliens who crashed on Installation 04. I remember some people thinking possible surviving Forerunners, but I'm thinking it's a race we haven't seen yet.
It has to be a different race:
- Spark couldn't decode the signal it emitted
- The array had only been (relatively) recently fired, none of the archived species were then advanced enough to reach it.

It's plausible that it's surviving Precursors, but from memory their tech/architecture was always black. Hopefully something interesting comes out of it and sooner rather then later.

It's interesting enough to note that in conversations of the universe, Spark says other species had visited the installation before the Covenant but simply observed and left.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
It has to be a different race:
- Spark couldn't decode the signal it emitted
- The array had only been (relatively) recently fired, none of the archived species were then advanced enough to reach it.

It's plausible that it's surviving Precursors, but from memory their tech/architecture was always black. Hopefully something interesting comes out of it and sooner rather then later.

It's interesting enough to note that in conversations of the universe, Spark says other species had visited the installation before the Covenant but simply observed and left.

Yeah that was something that bothered me insofar as a possible canonical conflict, but not for the reasons described above--the issue is that 343 in the PoA terminal is ready to blow the Autumn out of the sky for violating the Installations "airspace", for lack of a better term, until he scans for reclaimers. It's reasonable to assume he couldn't do anything about a crashing ship, or about the Covenant that followed the humans--but wouldn't he have warded off all the other aliens before they could get close? The exact language of Conversations of the Universe--"Exploring! Meddling! I've seen it all before. They'll record what they see and they'll leave"--implies they got closer than the 1 lightyear Spark describes.
 

Tzeentch

Member
Yeah that was something that bothered me insofar as a possible canonical conflict, but not for the reasons described above--the issue is that 343 in the PoA terminal is ready to blow the Autumn out of the sky for violating the Installations "airspace", for lack of a better term, until he scans for reclaimers.
-- He was following protocol. Whether he could actually implement any effective anti-spacecraft response may have exceeded his available resources. I don't recall any of the Halos having that capability aside from mass deployment of sentinels.
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
I'm kind of amazed to see this thread on the front page of the forum so consistently. What a strange time for a Halo lore thread to be so hoppin'.
 
-- He was following protocol. Whether he could actually implement any effective anti-spacecraft response may have exceeded his available resources. I don't recall any of the Halos having that capability aside from mass deployment of sentinels.
That's speculation but. I don't think it ever really got explained. It is pretty silly considering the Covenant and the unknown species had already landed/crashed with no oppression.
We've seen how deadly sentinels were on Onyx in masses, why not use them?
I'm kind of amazed to see this thread on the front page of the forum so consistently. What a strange time for a Halo lore thread to be so hoppin'.
With the Halo general community thread locked until E3, people are finding ways around it. Since general lore discussion was kinda OT for the Halo 4 thread we have this.
 

Korten

Banned
It has to be a different race:
- Spark couldn't decode the signal it emitted
- The array had only been (relatively) recently fired, none of the archived species were then advanced enough to reach it.

It's plausible that it's surviving Precursors, but from memory their tech/architecture was always black. Hopefully something interesting comes out of it and sooner rather then later.

It's interesting enough to note that in conversations of the universe, Spark says other species had visited the installation before the Covenant but simply observed and left.

I do wonder what happened to the space fairing civilization. Since it would be very strange if there was this massive civilization that existed pre-Covenant that no one ever found out about, more so if it still exists.

I wonder if this will be a major plot point in the later games/novels? What happened 40,000 years ago that resulted in a ship crash landing on a Halo ring?

The only thing I can think of was that there must have been some major war or something that led these new aliens to go extinct at the very least into hiding. Did they stumble upon Prometheans outside Requiem and they destroyed the unknown aliens?

Now, this is a wild off theory but... Maybe it was a Human ship? How? No idea, but maybe a section of Humanity didn't get de-evolved and managed to escape the galaxy, when they came back, they had changed a lot and something happened when they reentered the galaxy, hoping that some species would find them, they used the ships becon.

It would explain why the ship had the exact or similar atmosphere to the Halo ring. Though considering how many other species breath oxygen, it's kind of a moot point.
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
With the Halo general community thread locked until E3, people are finding ways around it. Since general lore discussion was kinda OT for the Halo 4 thread we have this.
Even the community OTs rarely saw this much lore discussion, but perhaps that's because those threads had a handful of vocal people who would shit on lore talk whenever it would arise, lol.
 

FyreWulff

Member
ONI's plan to destabilize the Sangheili and wipe them out is fucking bullshit, though. After everything I've read in the Kilo Five trilogy, I'm starting to hope the next Halo game will be about fighting ONI rather than the Covenant, because I'll be damned if those guys don't need to get thrown out of the nearest airlock.

This is my thought, the lore is leading up to ONI as the big bad instead of any aliens. They have a comeuppance pending. Hopefully 343 actually goes for it.
 
This is my thought, the lore is leading up to ONI as the big bad instead of any aliens. They have a comeuppance pending. Hopefully 343 actually goes for it.

Yep tearing ass through some ONI secret base and assassinating Osman while protecting Halsey for what she needs to do there simultaneously would make a great campaign mission. I doubt they'd go for killing humans in Halo though.
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
I don't know if I want to be shooting humans in Halo, though.

I mean, I can say for sure that I don't want to be shooting humans in Halo. Even bad humans.
 

LordOfChaos

Member
I'd like to know about the crashed ship too. If a society achieved spacefairing well before the humans or covanant, if they never reset themselves with war and are still around they must be pretty advanced.

I hope it's not something boring like it was flying at the time the rings were fired, then just kept flying on its path until it crashed into the ring.
 
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