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[BGBW]

Wasn't Phantom Hourglass one of the best selling Zelda games in Japan?

 

[equippedwithtowel]

Right!?

I have yet to see a compelling argument for why Iwata should remain in his position besides waxing poetic on his past successes or just plain delusion about the evils that would befall Nintendo if Iwata weren't leading. Not. A. Single. Solid. Line. Of. Reasoning.

Without Iwata Asks why even have Nintendo?
(laughs)

 

[Verendus]

I don't think Zelda sales are indicative of people not liking the cell shaded style necessarily. I think the IP, and character, just doesn't have the same weight behind it like it did in the past. It's just the series declining. Just over 3 million sales worldwide is pretty crap whichever way you put it for a series which is supposedly such a big system seller or so iconic (which I don't think it is anymore to be frank).

 

[TheMagician]

I don't think Zelda sales are indicative of people not liking the cell shaded style necessarily. I think the IP, and character, just doesn't have the same weight behind it like it did in the past. It's just the series declining. Just over 3 million sales worldwide are pretty crap whichever way you put it for a series which is supposedly such a big system seller or so iconic (which I don't think it is anymore to be frank).

How many copies did Twilight Princess sell and how did this compare to other games in the series?

 

[-Horizon-]

It pains me that a Zelda fan would be happy to see a Zelda game "struggle".

I don't understand why people can't get use to the controls, I got use to them in a day and I felt it has the best gameplay, I hope they bring back motion control in Zelda Wii U.

Controls clicked with me pretty quickly as well. I guess the controls are just a hit or miss with some people, for some reason, that I don't know of.

 

[grimshawish]

You talk like it's impossible for a sequel to outsell the predecessor and this never, ever, happened before. What makes you believe a sequel for a previous Zelda game on the same system couldn't outsell it?

This seems like a breach to find an excuse to hide the fact the last games on the series had a decline in sales.

What? I'm suggesting that people buy the first because their excited about the 'next' Zelda on a new platform. An explanation for the change in sales is not an excuse, unless you think its 100% random with no reason behind the drops?

 

[TwEE-N-Toast]

Do you remember to aim and then take your item out? You centre point always recalibrates when you take out an item so if you're point downwards while you take the item out and then aim at the TV your aim will be way off.

That could be it, but even when I know the sword and wiimote are both facing forward I'm still finding it impossible to get a hit on basic enemies.

It pains me that a Zelda fan would be happy to see a Zelda game "struggle".

I don't understand why people can't get use to the controls, I got use to them in a day and I felt it has the best gameplay, I hope they bring back motion control in Zelda Wii U.

There are moments when playing it where I can see why people like the controls, but then a Moblin blocks all my attacks over and over and over. Maybe I'll change my mind by the time I beat the game.

 

[Krev]

Of all the perfectly valid reasons to attack Miyamoto, all this nonsense about Wind Waker and whether it was a success and whether it destroyed Nintendo's image takes up half the page?

 

[MarkusRJR]

Controls clicked with me pretty quickly as well. I guess the controls are just a hit or miss with some people, for some reason, that I don't know of.

Yeah they weren't all that bad as long as you know that you can calibrate your cursor/weapon with down in the d-pad, and that the moment you push the item's button it'll calibrate he current position as the center position. A ton of people end up holding the controller weirdly when they push they button and the center is really off and they end up blaming the game for user error. I'm not going to say the controls are "great" by any means but they aren't as bad as people are making it out to be.

 

[freezamite]

Oblivion/Fallout 3/Skyrim/open world

Basically there is a trade off, the extra power can greatly influence gameplay and AI but from next gen on, we should see more refinements than massive steps. Something like CD Projekt's cyberpunk game could in theory be done on PS360 but would look and play much better on next gen machines.

So Assassin's Creed - not possible on Wii, technically doable on PS360, much better on next gen.

Assassin's Creed, this is the only example valid to me. Procedural animations that adapt in real time to the scenario in an open world game full of buildings and people is the only thing it's not possible to mimic on the Wii.

As for Fallout 3, Oblivion or Skyrim, there is absolutely nothing on them that couldn't be replicated on the Wii. Remember that a game of the size of GTA:San Andreas was doable on the PS2, and the Wii is much more powerful than that in nearly every mesurable aspect.


About the AI comment... seriously, AI is not limited by hardware power, there hasn't been an increase on AI from past generation to this one, and even on the last generation it wasn't taxing the CPU's that much.
AI limit is in current algorithms, or the fact that a limited AI is not an obstacle on modern game deisgns.

 

[TreasureHunterG]

What? I'm suggesting that people buy the first because their excited about the 'next' Zelda on a new platform. An explanation for the change in sales is not an excuse, unless you think its 100% random with no reason behind the drops?

And what would avoid them to buy a sequel for the same platform if they enjoyed the first so much?

Of all the perfectly valid reasons to attack Miyamoto, all this nonsense about Wind Waker and whether it was a success and whether it destroyed Nintendo's image takes up half the page?

Because this is Miyamoto related and one of his out of touch decisions?

 

[pants]

1990? I think it's time to just admit that Nintendo games are just not your cup of tea and that has nothing to do with Iwata. He was at HAL at the time for starters.

Unless you're talking about the release a few weeks back then I have no idea why you're complaining. A couple of bad weeks means Iwata has lost the plot? I know this month has been a bit quiet but Luigi's Mansion 2 is out so there's no need to cry.

1) F Zero GX
2) I never once complained about Nintendo software
3) I plainly stated that I bought it for Monster Hunter (Fire Emblem I got because I like it and I already had the system)
4) Luigi's Mansion does nothing for me, don't care
5) There are people that buy Nintendo hardware for reasons other than their software
6) 'Nintendo games are just not your cup of tea' I already said so, what's your point?

 

[Laguna]

I don´t think he would make such a bold forecast if he wasn´t sure to have some aces up his sleeves. Pokemon X&Y for example is a big asset, the western release of Animal Crossing could be huge as well if the NDS version is any indication and on WiiU games like Mario Kart and 3D Mario have been announced.

Also he has done a great job to secure the most important Japanese 3rd party IPs with Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter and it really looks like they are near to complete dominance in the handheld space in Japan, this is significant because this will secure support for 3DS and potentially lead to more Nintendo 1st and 2nd party ressources on WiiU while 3rd parties pick up the slack on 3DS.

 

[Azure J]

Of all the perfectly valid reasons to attack Miyamoto, all this nonsense about Wind Waker and whether it was a success and whether it destroyed Nintendo's image takes up half the page?

Everyone wants to see some blood letting so they jump on whatever they can. Admittedly, I do think upper management at Nintendo has to be shitting themselves but some of the conjecture here sounds more like points pushing forward what people want versus what's good for/will straighten out the company and more importantly the things that affect the end user.

 

[Instro]

Yes, the numbers for WW sales I posted were wrong, but still, cel-shading Zelda games had a decline in sales.

Wind Waker: 4.6 million
Phantom Hourglass: 4.13 million http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2008/080425e.pdf
Spirit Tracks: 2.61 million http://www.ign.com/articles/2010/05/06/wii-and-ds-sales-fall
Skyward Sword: 3.04 million http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2012/120127e.pdf#page=7

Spirit Tracks had a decline in sales in comparison to Phantom Hourglass. Twilight Princess outsold Wind Waker and Skyward Sword had a decline both for Wind Waker and Twilight Princess.

Yes, cel-shading Zelda games are falling in sales.

This is a poor comparison since those SS sales are from the first month.

 

[grimshawish]

And what would avoid them to buy a sequel for the same platform if they enjoyed the first so much?

They're less interested in a Zelda game on the same hardware would be my suggestion.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

He should be let go just for the decision to region lock a fucking handheld. Ok, not really - but the decision is just ridiculous.

 

[antonz]

Skyward Sword came too late putting it bluntly. Most Serious Wii owners already gave up on the system by the time it came.

I still think its a fantastic game that started to go in the right direction but still has some flaws to address.

 

[Krev]

Because this is Miyamoto related and one of his out of touch decisions?

It was a bold decision, but it's not worth shitcanning him over that considering that
1) the game was actually very successful, and
2) it has grown in stature and appreciation over the past decade, to the extent that Nintendo feel they can put out a new console remake of the game and make money.

Yes, the sequels declined in sales, but they also declined in quality, so that's not much of an argument.

For an actual example of Miyamoto's out of touchness hurting the company, look at EAD's total failure to prepare for the HD generation and its resulting inability to get games out on a regular basis, even when it's necessary to keep the Wii U afloat.

 

[shinra-bansho]

The GameCube was the same powerlevel (and more powerful than the Ps2) and that didn't happen.A simple fact is that 3rd parties don't like competing against Nintendo. Nintendo is the largest software game publisher in the world.

Nonsense. Third parties have no problem with competing with racers on PlayStation despite Gran Turismo or shooters on XBOX despite Halo. They put platformers like Rayman on the Wii, where it sold best, despite games like NSMB. They put Just Dance, party, sports and fitness games on the Wii despite Wii Sports and Wii Fit.

Because it's not "despite," it's "because." An audience was cultivated by the platform holder for these types of games.

Third parties go where there's an audience. They are not scared of Nintendo, simply indifferent, as by and large in recent history Nintendo does not and has not engendered an audience for the types of games they generally make, while the other two platforms have.

 

[Hakai]

Nintendo decided to change the aesthetics of the series with Wind Waker, after the hype created by the Spaceworld 2000 demo and decided to keep that aesthetics onward. The only time they didn't made a cel-shading game, which was Twilight Princess, it became, of all of the post-Wind Waker games, the game on the series with better sales overall.

This is an evidence that cel-shading Zelda games don't have the same sales potential from "realistic" Zelda games.



No, I'm not. You're just narrow minded and revealed to be a fanboy after this post.



Thanks.

How can I be a fanboy when is you who is trying to prove that the decrease in sales in the Zelda series come from the Cel Shaded artstyle?

Really? There is a bunch of other more reasonable reasons and you want me to believe that is the reason?

And what would avoid them to buy a sequel for the same platform if they enjoyed the first so much?



Because this is Miyamoto related and one of his out of touch decisions?

How can the decision to make WW an out of touch decision when the game outsold it's predecessor and had a pretty common sales figure within the series sales? And technically outsold the sucessor in the same console.

 

[Version 3.0]

It certainly is a problem, but the odds are not high that more competitive specs alone would have helped enough to get them anywhere near multiplatform release parity. The perception that third-party core games can't sell on Nintendo consoles is just too longstanding and too deeply entrenched to be erased by any one, or two, or probably even three things Nintendo chose not to do.

True, it's likely they wouldn't reach parity, but by undercutting the specs, they're virtually guaranteeing a lower level of multi-platform support than they'd have otherwise.

The GameCube was the same powerlevel (and more powerful than the Ps2) and that didn't happen.A simple fact is that 3rd parties don't like competing against Nintendo. Nintendo is the largest software game publisher in the world.

Not true. The Gamecube did nearly achieve cross-platform release parity in its first few years. At least, it had as many or more releases as the Xbox did. Most games were PS2/Gamecube/Xbox. It was only as its sales performance flagged that the games stopped coming, as opposed to the opposite scenario on the Wii (no games first, system died later).

I usually hate to play might-have-been too much, but if the Wii were even roughly on par with the PS3 and 360, it'd still be the market leader today. If it had feature parity, it would have dominated like the PS2 did.

And if the Wii U had these things, it'd be off to an excellent year's head start instead of stumbling out the gate.

 

[RoombaDance]

Yeah they weren't all that bad as long as you know that you can calibrate your cursor/weapon with down in the d-pad, and that the moment you push the item's button it'll calibrate he current position as the center position. A ton of people end up holding the controller weirdly when they push they button and the center is really off and they end up blaming the game for user error. I'm not going to say the controls are "great" by any means but they aren't as bad as people are making it out to be.

It is pretty dumb that it recallibrates like that every time you use the item. I found myself obsessively recalibrating the controls every couple minutes which kills the immersion a bit. Also I wish the recalibrate button wasn't the same as the help button. I haven't had any problem with the sword controls, but I like to play with full arm sword swipes.

From what I can see both Miyamoto and Iwata do a pretty good job, but Miyamoto should probably have his hands involved in less franchises. Recent shifts seem to indicate he's now working in a lesser role.

I usually hate to play might-have-been too much, but if the Wii were even roughly on par with the PS3 and 360, it'd still be the market leader today. If it had feature parity, it would have dominated like the PS2 did.

Sure if the Wii was about as powerful as PS360 and had motion support while still launching for $250 it would be the market leader today. But really do you think that was actually an option for Nintendo? I'm pretty sure Nintendo would have to post massive losses for several years in a row to pull that off - without the benefit of a parent company to back them up.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

It's 2013, and people are still annoyed over Space World. Good god. It was a tech demo.

 

[Gannd]

I thought it was Acti-Blizzard or EA.

largest third party.

 

[Version 3.0]

How can the decision to make WW an out of touch decision when the game outsold it's predecessor and had a pretty common sales figure within the series sales? And technically outsold the sucessor in the same console.

Because it cemented the Gamecube's "kiddie" image, just when it might have been possible to establish the console with a wider demographic (Resident Evil exclusivity had been recently announced). I personally think Wind Waker is more directly responsible for the Gamecube's toddler image than anything else, even the purple box and handle or Mario Sunshine marketing. And that "kiddie" image, more than anything else, contributed to its poor sales performance.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Because it cemented the Gamecube's "kiddie" image, just when it might have been possible to establish the console with a wider demographic (Resident Evil exclusivity had been recently announced). I personally think Wind Waker is more directly responsible for the Gamecube's toddler image than anything else, even the purple box and handle or Mario Sunshine marketing. And that "kiddie" image, more than anything else, contributed to its poor sales performance.

I would have much preferred Wind Waker than Ocarina of Time II. I regret nothing.

 

[Hakai]

Because it cemented the Gamecube's "kiddie" image, just when it might have been possible to establish the console with a wider demographic (Resident Evil exclusivity had been recently announced). I personally think Wind Waker is more directly responsible for the Gamecube's toddler image than anything else, even the purple box and handle or Mario Sunshine marketing. And that "kiddie" image, more than anything else, contributed to its poor sales performance.

Man, really? You may be right, I can get your point, but when you are creating a game, you should not think in how your game will make the hardware look, but making the game in it's best.

And game wise, WW performed very well, actually since is GC we are talking about here it done awesome, it sold almost like Link to the Past for the SNES. Not only in sales the game was praised by critics.

So, again how could that be a out of touch decision, when after all was a success. GC was not a failure because of WW, this is just nonsense really.

 

[Father_Brain]

Nonsense. Third parties have no problem with competing with racers on PlayStation despite Gran Turismo or shooters on XBOX despite Halo. They put platformers like Rayman on the Wii, where it sold best, despite games like NSMB. They put Just Dance, party, sports and fitness games on the Wii despite Wii Sports and Wii Fit.

Because it's not "despite," it's "because." An audience was cultivated by the platform holder for these types of games.

Third parties go where there's an audience. They are not scared of Nintendo, simply indifferent, as by and large in recent history Nintendo does not and has not engendered an audience for the types of games they generally make, while the other two platforms have.

This, this, this.

It's as though Nintendo learned the bare minimum they could have learned from Wii (HD graphics, something vaguely resembling 21st-century online functionality) while learning absolutely nothing from GC, namely that product positioning and audience cultivation matter if you want to get, let alone keep, third parties on board.

 

[SolarPowered]

Let's be real here: Did online really matter that much back then? What like, 10 percent of console gamers played games online during that generation?

Had they used that momentum for Metroid we might have had Metroid Reach instead of Other M and Nintendo might have been the first ones to reach the online FPS multiplayer crowd in a big way. Don't forget that Halo 2 was true stepping stone towards Halo 3 on the 360. Halo CE was amazing, but Halo 2 carried the torch for MS in that generation without a doubt.

I look at the Prime series and I see a smaller case of Goldeneye 64. A chance at growth and new audiences lost.

Again, I need to reiterate that if Nintendo were to go the mega hardware route that Sony and MS have done, that would be the end of Nintendo. You should fear the day that Nintendo go for that, not beg for it.

Nintendo is a games company, not an entertainment company with a games division like those two. If they went that route it would destroy their financials. You complain about Iwata having two years in the red, which is now turning around based on last quarter? Imagine it with their lossleading hardware, especially if it sells. Now THAT would be a situation which would warrant removal of the CEO.

Besides, do you really want a third, near identical, console?

What Nintendo provides these days are different experiences. This is what I love about them. Many may say the GamePad is useless, but it is very useful in games and changes the way games work. At worst, it frees up the screen from clutter. At best, it revolutionises the gaming experience.

Yes, the Wii U is failing to grab traction, but Nintendo will do what they always do, and be Nintendo. Cleaning house at Nintendo would not do anything but perhaps irreparably damaging the company by deciding to go foolish routes that would result in lower financials, and perhaps the loss of the company.

Nintendo did go the "mega hardware" route. The difference between them and their competitors is that they decided to spend a sizeable lump of cash per unit on a controller that no one asked for and few want.

*shrugs shoulders*

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Also, fuck anyone who thinks Zelda has ever had a "realistic" art style.

 

[Tookay]

You talk like it's impossible for a sequel to outsell the predecessor and this never, ever, happened before. What makes you believe a sequel for a previous Zelda game on the same system couldn't outsell it?

This seems like a breach to find an excuse to hide the fact the last games on the series had a decline in sales.

Doesn't help that the second Zelda releases tend to be when the systems themselves are dying/dead.

 

[SMD]

Because it cemented the Gamecube's "kiddie" image, just when it might have been possible to establish the console with a wider demographic (Resident Evil exclusivity had been recently announced). I personally think Wind Waker is more directly responsible for the Gamecube's toddler image than anything else, even the purple box and handle or Mario Sunshine marketing. And that "kiddie" image, more than anything else, contributed to its poor sales performance.

That's such an American centric view. The kiddie thing is more a damning indictment of the immaturity of gamers than Nintendo, even with the admission from Nintendo that they see themselves as a toy company more than an entertainment company.
No one ever said "oh those Pixar films look shit because they're all Disney films for kids" and if anyone does feel like that, then it's their loss.

The PS2 was the successor to the most popular console in the 32-bit era and the marketing was top notch, there were almost every single type of game catered for - kiddie or otherwise.

The Gamecube had great games but nowhere near the breadth of titles that the PS2 had. The Xbox chased the core gamers yet that sold worse than the GC - one of these is considered a failure while the other is a success.

Zelda was a great game and has the same art style as Killer 7. Were people put off K7 because it looked 'kiddie'?

 

[markot]

As a big Zelda and motion control fan, it does my heart good to see Skyward Sword selling poorly. I'm struggling with the control so much it's starting to piss me off.

A: 3 million is poor?

B: You must be a huge fan if you want the series to sell poorly.

C: If you struggle with Skyward sword god knows how you deal with basic motor functions on a daily basis.

D: Jesussssss christ, we are still having a 'realism' debate over Zelda? If you are playing Nintendo games for anything resemblind realism you are doing it wrong. Its like complaining Cod has too much guns and stuff.

 

[MarkusRJR]

A: 3 million is poor?

B: You must be a huge fan if you want the series to sell poorly.

C: If you struggle with Skyward sword god knows how you deal with basic motor functions on a daily basis.

D: Jesussssss christ, we are still having a 'realism' debate over Zelda? If you are playing Nintendo games for anything resemblind realism you are doing it wrong. Its like complaining Cod has too much guns and stuff.

A. In comparison to the other entries in the series it is poor. It shows a clear decline in sales.

B. Fans of the respective series wanted FF13-2, DmC, and RE6 to sell poorly to give a message to the devs/pubs. The same situation applies here.

C. Some people don't like motion controls, no need to be hostile.

D. It is a stupid argument, but there people out there might have different tastes than you. Some people might want realistic visuals/art in a game series they like because they find it more appealing. It's not like there aren't Zelda games that have a more "realistic" style (OoT, MM, TP), and these games tend to be more loved than the cell shaded games (WW, SS, ST, PH) around the casual Zelda audience. Note that I'm not saying the "toon" visuals are bad (I like them a lot), but there is clearly an audience for the more realistic Zelda games.

 

[StreetsAhead]

Nintendo did go the "mega hardware" route. The difference between them and their competitors is that they decided to spend a sizeable lump of cash per unit on a controller that no one asked for and few want.

*shrugs shoulders*

Mega hardware? Hardly. What hyperbole.

Have you used the Game Pad? I find it comfortable and having the screen works well in Nintendo Land, Batman, and Zombi U, but I was doubtful until I actually used it. Many of my friends who've played it were suspicious or didn't like it until actually playing with it too.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

A: 3 million is poor?

B: You must be a huge fan if you want the series to sell poorly.

C: If you struggle with Skyward sword god knows how you deal with basic motor functions on a daily basis.

D: Jesussssss christ, we are still having a 'realism' debate over Zelda? If you are playing Nintendo games for anything resemblind realism you are doing it wrong. Its like complaining Cod has too much guns and stuff.

A: Nowadays it is. See the thread about TReboot under-preforming at 3.4mil.

B: Nintendo isn't Capcpom or EA. They will try to solve the problems with a game if it bombs rather than just kill the franchise (though the situation with Metroid might be a sign they are taking up that mentality).

C: The controls in SS are ass.

D: Agreed.

 

[Javier]

A. In comparison to the other entries in the series it is poor. It shows a clear decline in sales.

3 million in its first month is poor?

Seriously, the posted data for SS goes up to December 2011. Does anyone have a more updated number?

 

[StreetsAhead]

(though the situation with Metroid might be a sign they are taking up that mentality).

There hasn't been a brand new Kirby game in a while. Maybe Nintendo has canned that series too. Maybe it's raining but I'm worried that someone's pissing on my head.

 

[MarkusRJR]

3 million in its first month is poor?

Seriously, the posted data for SS goes up to December 2011. Does anyone have a more updated number?

I was under the assumptions that they were lifetime sales when I replied to him. If they are better than that I'd be wrong.

 

[Neon_Icarus]

The original LoZ, OoT and TP are the exception, not the rule.
Most games in the series sell around as much as SS did.

(and please keep in mind, that 3 million figure is very old).

 

[shadowsdarknes]

A: 3 million is poor?

B: You must be a huge fan if you want the series to sell poorly.

C: If you struggle with Skyward sword god knows how you deal with basic motor functions on a daily basis.

D: Jesussssss christ, we are still having a 'realism' debate over Zelda? If you are playing Nintendo games for anything resemblind realism you are doing it wrong. Its like complaining Cod has too much guns and stuff.

3 million sales for a full blown Zelda game is bad when the series typically has sold double that.

 

[IceDoesntHelp]

C: The controls in SS are ass.

Not true.

 

[Zero148]

Mega hardware? Hardly. What hyperbole.

Have you used the Game Pad? I find it comfortable and having the screen works well in Nintendo Land, Batman, and Zombi U, but I was doubtful until I actually used it. Many of my friends who've played it were suspicious or didn't like it until actually playing with it too.

that is a problem and a challenge for Nintendo. The Gamepad is indeed a well thought out concept, but you have to actually use it to "get it". The Wiimote on the other hand was obvious and there for far easier to market.

 

[RedSwirl]

Also, fuck anyone who thinks Zelda has ever had a "realistic" art style.

You can't even call OOT and TP realistic to be honest.

 

[Verendus]

Nonsense. Third parties have no problem with competing with racers on PlayStation despite Gran Turismo or shooters on XBOX despite Halo. They put platformers like Rayman on the Wii, where it sold best, despite games like NSMB. They put Just Dance, party, sports and fitness games on the Wii despite Wii Sports and Wii Fit.

Because it's not "despite," it's "because." An audience was cultivated by the platform holder for these types of games.

Third parties go where there's an audience. They are not scared of Nintendo, simply indifferent, as by and large in recent history Nintendo does not and has not engendered an audience for the types of games they generally make, while the other two platforms have.

I agree with this. I've never understood the nonsense about third parties not wanting to compete with Nintendo software. It makes no sense.

 

[Toski]

That's such an American centric view. The kiddie thing is more a damning indictment of the immaturity of gamers than Nintendo, even with the admission from Nintendo that they see themselves as a toy company more than an entertainment company.
No one ever said "oh those Pixar films look shit because they're all Disney films for kids" and if anyone does feel like that, then it's their loss.

The PS2 was the successor to the most popular console in the 32-bit era and the marketing was top notch, there were almost every single type of game catered for - kiddie or otherwise.

The Gamecube had great games but nowhere near the breadth of titles that the PS2 had. The Xbox chased the core gamers yet that sold worse than the GC - one of these is considered a failure while the other is a success.

Zelda was a great game and has the same art style as Killer 7. Were people put off K7 because it looked 'kiddie'?

Nintendo is trying to sell a product. WW art style was not what the GC needed at the time and probably drove away a number of potential customers. Killer 7 has a completely different look than WW and not many people would mistake it for kiddie.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

There hasn't been a brand new Kirby game in a while. Maybe Nintendo has canned that series too. Maybe it's raining but I'm worried that someone's pissing on my head.

Kirby had a major anniversary set released a few months ago, whereas Nintendo has completely ignored Metroid following the Other M fiasco. At best, Nintendo has put the franchise on hiatus.

 

[Javier]

3 million sales for a full blown Zelda game is bad when the series typically has sold double that.

The only Zeldas to sell more than 6 million are LoZ, OoT and TP. And all three of them had special circumstances that affected their sales.

 

[Bony Manifesto]

The only Zeldas to sell more than 6 million are LoZ, OoT and TP. And all three of them had special circumstances that affected their sales.

I get that TP was released on two platforms at once, and the NES was a phenomenon where even mediocre games sold millions, but what were the special circumstances for OoT?