Do you live in a bomb shelter and the Wii U inside and you are outside with the gamepad?
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Iwata: "Some developers have become pessimistic about Wii U"
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
Do you live in a bomb shelter and the Wii U inside and you are outside with the gamepad?
Super Mario Galaxy 2, a "true" 3D platforming Mario game would've been precisely the kind of game to launch a new console with.
You then save New Super Mario Bros. U for the summer lull, and hopefully you prep your next big title in Super Smash Bros. or Mario Kart for the next holiday season, marking 1 year since Wii U hit shelves.
If I was in charge of Nintendo, I would shoot for having one big first or second party release each quarter at the most, and at least bi-annually (once in the spring/summer, once in the fall/holiday).
You should be escorted from the premises for suggesting Shigeru Miyamoto be escorted out. He has almost no hand in the business decision-making for Nintendo. He's a creative mind and since the N64 controller fiasco has pulled away and focused mostly on software.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
It does make me wonder if Nintendo seriously figured the Wii U would have the same level of success as the first Wii and most people wouldn't notice the game drought the same way people didn't for the first half of '07... Unless I'm forgetting any major releases; MP3 and SMG were holiday titles, no?
In which case I really don't know how they couldn't tell well in advance how badly things were going to go. After how much Microsoft's already changed with the XBone, I find it bizarre Nintendo never even thought to at least change the system's name or rethink some of the design aspects after two highly negative E3 showings before launch. While I guiltily admit (mostly since while I'll love the onslaught of platformers, I know most others probably won't) I really dig just about everything Nintendo announced at their Direct this year, it really drove home just how much they seem to regret going with the tablet despite all the warnings nearly everybody else had two years straight.
Yep, a Galaxy game/Zelda or whatever that is meant for the more hardcore crowd, that wouldn't mind paying $299/349 at launch would've been the better game. But instead Nintendo took the easy way out and it's biting them in the ass. They just made one bad decision after another. And even after the fact, they are still making the wrong decisions, like releasing SM3DW first instead of MK8. Should've put more people on that project and no matter what release it this Holiday season. Sigh...
Iwata is delusional. The getting 3rd party support ship has sailed or rather sunk. If you somehow convince 3rd parties to start budgeting and planning ports...when would they arrive at earliest? Q4 2014? If Nintendo cannot sustain a profitable Wii U market with just their games, they need to plan to abort. Make a console that developers will want to make games on.
TreasureHunterG
Banned
Totally agree. These guys holds too much power, are out of touch and mismanged the company for long enough.
It's time for new blood who's in touch with modern gaming industry.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
I'm not entirely sure why Iwata stepping down from the CEO position and putting more in-tune and younger people into leadership positions also means they have to suddenly fire like, half the people working at the company since the 80's. Or anybody for that matter.
Do leadership changes normally result in a ton of layoffs? Not sure why Miyamoto can't stay in a supervisor/mentor role or Iwata can't go back to HAL rather than the public spectacle of them leaving some people here seem to want.
Do leadership changes normally result in a ton of layoffs? Not sure why Miyamoto can't stay in a supervisor/mentor role or Iwata can't go back to HAL rather than the public spectacle of them leaving some people here seem to want.
What does this mystical Nintendo console that developers will want to make games for? And don't say a more powerful one, because you still have the demographics issues and bean counters calculating that there's no point. That just leads to a faster sinking Nintendo eating more losses, without necessarily more support to show for taking that bath.
Considering the fact no game in North America apart from Nintendo Land and NSMBU has sold over 150k, it's no surprise developers are pessimistic. Nintendo really needs to get their act together.
DragonSworne
Banned
Then why is he listed as one of the 6 executives running all of Nintendo?
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/pr?s=NTDOY
Absolutely more powerful. Specifically more RAM (preferably GDDR5), x86 4+ core CPU, a standard HDD, a standard gamepad included with all consoles. Ditch the tablet, it has horrible COGS. Nobody is going to spend millions to retool games to a 3 core PPC CPU and 1 GB DDR3 RAM. It costs tons of money and not enough to justify developing games if it sells 10k units.
Such a console would be profitable day 1. If Nintendo was concerned about losses, they shouldn't have made that horrible controller.
JordanN
Banned
The next CEO is going to be a really fun guy (or girl).
Imagine being told you're in charge of Mario? That person would want nothing more than for Nintendo to succeed.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
Why would people buy it over the other consoles where the audience already is? (ex: Call of Duty Black Ops 2)
I'm really glad GAF doesn't actually make business decisions for companies, all suggestions are almost universally awful
Because it would have both those 3rd party games AND Nintendo games. The same reason people bough SNES over Genesis. And with those architecture choices I suggested, Nintendo would be able to output games faster too, assuming they know anything about modern game development and are open to using 3rd party engines and tools.
And get over yourself with your condescending stance.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
Does it matter if it has the games but the audience isn't there?
Black Ops 2 came out on the Wii U but there's like 5,000 people on there. Why? Because everyone that wants it is playing it on PC, 360, or PS3
DragonSworne
Banned
Is this a serious question?
So they can play Mario, Zelda, and third party games on the most powerful hardware... This alone is more reason to own a Nintendo system then anything the Wii U offers.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
I find it weird how quick people are to forget that after N64 shat the bed in terms of 3rd party relations the GCN still had pretty good 3rd party support for its first few years despite clearly selling worse than the other big two during that generation. Similarly it's not like the SNES suddenly lost all 3rd-party support when SEGA stepped up to the plate during the 90's.
Comparable specs to the PS4/XBone or at least noticeably better specs than the current HD-twins, while probably not the defining factor of the Wii U's current state, absolutely would have helped Nintendo's current 3rd party situation.
Comparable specs to the PS4/XBone or at least noticeably better specs than the current HD-twins, while probably not the defining factor of the Wii U's current state, absolutely would have helped Nintendo's current 3rd party situation.
lyrick
Member
Were you gaming during the PS2/Xbox/Gamecube era? The Gamecube and Xbox wiped the floor with both power and feature sets, and it still did Nintendo little to no good when it came to third party support.
I dig their Direct stuff too, but if they had been working on Wii U for what I assume is the last 5 years given the distinct lack of support poured into the Wii at the end of it's life cycle aside from Skyward Sword (I'll come back to this point!) -- then why wasn't Mario Kart 8, Super Smash Bros., and a true Mario platformer ready at launch?
Because they attempted to set upon the "3D" fad with the 3DS, and needed to divert their already thin engineers and developers to "save" the 3DS internally...hence leading to a lack of support for the Wii U although forging ahead to attempt to capitalize on the tablet fad/market...shitty scenario.
Mario Kart 8 should've been a launch title. Super Mario 3D World - I don't care what anyone says - looks like a diverted 3DS game to attempt to fill the cavernous void of software between now and whenever Mario Kart 8 is coming (Spring 2014? Are you kidding me?)
It's a really, really bad situation for them. And all of that stuff at the E3 direct and still no true flagship Mario title or Zelda teaser or anything.
Also, where in the holy hell is Metroid!?
TreasureHunterG
Banned
The audience isn't there because the games aren't there. The games aren't there because Nintendo has designed their consoles in such a way that it requires significant financial commitment to modify 3rd party games to work on the system.
1 game that's significantly downgraded isn't going to build userbases that buy 3rd party games.
Add Reggie to that pile
I was gaming in NES era.
Gamecube's problem was N64. N64 burnt so many bridges. They showed up late with Gamecube. It takes time to build relationships with developers, and Gamecube was a good start to correct that but they burnt bridges again with Wii even if they were temporarily fine financially.
Nintendo has consistently failed to realize since the Nintendo 64 that third party software is what sells your hardware. First/Second party software is what gives you the edge, not what sells systems (generally speaking).
With a console capable of playing all of the same multiplatform games as your competitors, you then turn to your tried and true first party lineup and your innovation to help give you the "bump" over your competitors...not the other way around.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
Significant financial commitment to port games? That's not what Ubisoft says.
Black Ops 2 on Wii U "significantly downgraded?" Yeah, because there's only 5000 people playing on a primarily multiplayer game! Are you trying to say the graphics are anything other than marginal differences? Activsion even lets you use basically any possible controller (including the Wiimote and Nunchuk, best controller for console shooters). It's the worst version of the game because no one has the game.
I think he was speaking more towards moving forward, not current generation games like Black Ops II.
Sorry, I'm assuming you were talking about Wii. I don't pay attention to COD.
Seems it was a decent port. Problem is that it's comparable to other systems that are in their golden years. It would be like if Dreamcast came out with Soul Calibur looking like PSX. That wouldn't sell consoles. Or Gamecube coming out looking marginally better than PSX games. That wouldn't sell consoles.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
Do you think millions of gamers would suddenly jump ship from their own ecosystems considering they likely have many friends who play on that system, plus achievements/trophies for those who care (which is probably a lot more than people think)?
Online gaming has changed the industry a lot and more than anything affects which console people are going to purchase (because of friends who play, etc). Nintendo didn't adapt fast enough and it missed out on the section of the market that primarily games online. I don't see why a Wii U that's basically the same thing as PS4/XBone would peel people away when people are already invested in their ecosystems.
Right, and that audience is pretty cemented on those systems. That audience is heavily invested in those systems.
I don't disagree at all. And you're right - millions of gamers are absolutely not going to jump ship from those ecosystems, especially when Nintendo's console is merely playing catchup during the twilight year(s) of the current generation.
I think all three of us are saying the same thing, but in a roundabout way
Edit: I think that a PS4/XB1 comparable Nintendo console would absolutely tear those gamers away from their ecosystems.
If Nintendo truly was next gen with the Wii U -- PS4/XB1 level graphics and immersion, plus Nintendo's solid first party franchises, the prayers of millions of gamers would be answered -- finally a console where I can play all of my favorite Call of Duties and Grand Theft Autos along with Zelda and Mario in 3D and other good games.
The only thing that I would miss would be Naughty Dog.
DragonSworne
Banned
There will be a mass exodus of gamers from Xbox to PlayStation occurring this winter.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
I think people ought to wait for sales numbers before declaring something like this as fact.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
So who's left to buy the Wii-U?
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Simplifying it adds nothing to the discussion. It's arguing semantics. Yes, every platform has it, but the question is to what extent? Do you not understand why that would be an important question? It was a central part of the Wii, the major focus of the entire platform and the primary way to play games. Can you say the same about PS4? X1? Wii U? I don't understand how this is a difficult concept to grasp. You're being purposely obtuse.
Mysterious
Banned
DCDW
Member
While quite an unlikely scenario, if Nintendo were to launch a new console featuring EA's Origin system for online functionality in exchange for exclusives and support in general, it could be the foot in the door for Nintendo to turn some heads. Obviously the trade off would be that EA would see the lions share of profits from online purchases or more so than Nintendo would care to share probably.
Hell even Valve might jump at the opportunity to break into the console market via Nintendo instead of the steambox. Highly unlikely and I would pretty much agree with everyone who is calling for a changing of the guard for the higher ups. They're always a generation behind and when they offer last gens advances, it's usually half assed (PSX was CDs vs Carts, PS2 was DVDS while GCN was Mini-DVDs with a 1/3rd of the space of a dvd).
Hell even Valve might jump at the opportunity to break into the console market via Nintendo instead of the steambox. Highly unlikely and I would pretty much agree with everyone who is calling for a changing of the guard for the higher ups. They're always a generation behind and when they offer last gens advances, it's usually half assed (PSX was CDs vs Carts, PS2 was DVDS while GCN was Mini-DVDs with a 1/3rd of the space of a dvd).
As far as I can tell, buying a wii u is a crap shoot in terms of range, sync problems, hard locks etc.
Some people get the short straw and since there is no information from Nintendo on these things, well...who knows what normal is supposed to be.
I'm not the one arguing semantics, actually. Motion controls are now standard. It's the software that decides how much or how little to use them. The same was true even on the Wii
Royalan - we already had that console.
Q
qizah
Unconfirmed Member
This holiday is definitely going to be vital for core third party support for the Wii U. If Nintendo can move a lot of units and keep momentum going into next year, it'll be harder for developers/publishers to ignore the platform.
The lack of Mario Kart 8 this Holiday makes me skeptical, because they really need that title for the Holiday season, but we'll see.
The lack of Mario Kart 8 this Holiday makes me skeptical, because they really need that title for the Holiday season, but we'll see.
Pyrrhus
Member
It had a better hardware specs, but the Gamecube had a non-standard control pad with fewer buttons and more importantly had a storage medium that could only hold 1/8 of what PS2 and Xbox games could. They hobbled themselves pretty badly and for no real reason.
Considering the machine was late to the party that PS2 was already dominating, nobody was going to go out of their way for the Gamecube, especially not given the development difficulties the system's critical design flaws created. EA, who was their big buddy at the time, had to make use of elaborate compression technologies to fit their multiplatform games' music, videos, and other assets on the Cube's disc. Other publishers with less surefire, high-selling software or with axes to grind due to previous treatment by Nintendo simply didn't bother.
MP3 came out on August 27, 2007, I believe. So not quite a holiday release.
But the issue with the Wii U is that it's not as "new" as the Wii was.
The Wii had that "Wow, look at those motion controls!" factor, and came with a copy of Wii Sports, which was fun. It was new, fun, and there was nothing like it on the market. The Kinect and Move didn't come in until years and years later.
The Wii U is just a glorified iPad that we've all seen before. There's nothing "new" about it, hence why no one is buying it. The lack of games certainly doesn't help the case.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
They're standard but bordering on irrelevant, thus a fad/slowly fading away fad, which was what the original post from whoever it was said. Not a difficult concept to grasp.
Motion controls-
Central focus for the Wii, gameplay centered around them, Wiimote controller, marketing, advertising, literally everything about the Wii platform was focused on motion controls. Yes, there were games that used the traditional controller.
Fast forward to the next-gen consoles-
PS4 - Move accessory, gyro sensors in controller, barely any mention of this stuff at all other than a 5 min demo in February
Wii U- no explanation needed, dropped the wiimote for the gamepad, went from the central focus being motion controls to them being a sidekick at best
X1- Majority of the games are played with the traditional controller. Every game shown at E3 = traditional controller.
So yes, they're a fad, or at the very least are fading away to total irrelevancy.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
You completely ignored my points.
If you're referring to the Gamecube, I think there are plenty of reasons to argue that it wasn't that console. Although I'll admit it was the closest Nintendo has ever gotten.
I understand that it's not necessarily a primary focus, but that doesn't discount the notion that its not a fad. It's standard equipment that's being used where appropriate.
shinra-bansho
Member
I feel like these discussions tend to repeat...
If Nintendo wanted studios like Bethesda and Rockstar on their system then yes, a system of more comparable power to the other two would be more conducive to multiplatform development and would provide greater incentive for upgrade and transition for the intended market from the current gen systems. They should have positioned the system more towards those markets, even if at risk of losing some of their family friendly brand image. They should be producing software more in line with attracting those audiences. The system should have been made with ease of development in mind, first and foremost, not only for their internal studios, but for external studios.
If being the operative word. That isn't the only model.
Alternatively, they could have gone in the other direction; they could have had a low cost alternative to next gen systems with their strong family friendly properties and created a separate lucrative market for titles from third parties aimed at females of all ages, older audiences, younger males. They could have made a more accessible platform, as the Wii should have shown them accessibility was a major pain point for the "casual" audience, rather than one which apparently the virtues of need elaborate explanation.
But instead they ended up trying to appease both markets simultaneously and have failed to capture either in great number.
A system that isn't really targeted at the "core" in its design, aesthetic and first party software; a system that doesn't inspire transition from current generation systems, due to a dearth in hardware power - why "upgrade"? Lacking the catalog software, with less new software and at a higher price, with a less developed and populated online infrastructure.
A system whose USP is alienating to parts of the "casual" market rather than accessible, while simultaneously striking as a me-too proposition in the face of smart devices to others; at a price point too high to appeal to these expanded audiences, despite the product identity and software more in tune with the demographics of these audiences.
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