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[nbthedude]

Boy, rough crowd today!

Yeah, I said I was open to summoning, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna spend the game doing it. Sheesh. Obviously it was not particularly satisfying to "beat" this guy today with the help, but on the other hand this boss was so easy anyway that I don't think it would have been that cathartic to beat him solo, either. Summoning here was like summoning w/the gargoyle in DS1.

My goal for the game is still to feel like *I* beat it. Don't take one summons and the fact that I said I may do it again as indicative of how the next 200 hours are gonna go.

Anyway, I appreciate the comments and criticism, and won't get defensive here. Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment, pro or con!

I totally understand it must be kind of irritating to hear a bunch of people tell you they don't like the way you are playing a game. Fuck that shit. It's probably why I wouldnt' enjoy streaming.

Personally I've never even really enjoyed watching people play games online very much outside of checking out new games I've never seen before (i.e. GB Quicklooks). The Souls series is one of the few exceptions to that and I've thought about why that is. I think it's that they are so deliberate and the encounters in them so memorable that you really can kind of relive the game vicariously through others.

I'm really not trying to tell you how to enjoy the game. I was just trying to be honest about what I find interesting about your streams and why I watched them in the past. I guess I could have just shut up and quietly stopped watching the streams. Maybe that would have been better and you wouldn't have to feel like people are telling you how to enjoy your games.

 

[JeffGreen]

I totally understand it must be kind of irritating to hear a bunch of people tell you they don't like the way you are playing a game. Fuck that shit. It's probably why I wouldnt' enjoy streaming.

Personally I've never even really enjoyed watching people play games online very much outside of checking out new games I've never seen before (i.e. GB Quicklooks). The Souls series is one of the few exceptions to that and I've thought about why that is. I think it's that they are so deliberate and the encounters in them so memorable that you really can kind of relive the game vicariously through others.

I'm really not trying to tell you how to enjoy the game. I was just trying to be honest about what I find interesting about your streams and why I watch them in the past. I guess I could have just shut up and quietly stopped watching the streams. Maybe that would have been better and you wouldn't have to feel like people are telling you how to enjoy your games.

It's all good, man. I appreciate the honesty and the feedback! It's the only way I'll improve as a livestreamer. Which I actually am interested in doing!

So, again, wasn't trying to sound defensive. Just pointing out that I really am NOT planning on summoning through the game. Whether you come back or not.

cheers!

 

[AuthenticM]

I propose the following rule: Jeff does not summon allies for bosses until after his 10th solo try. Once he's on his 11th, it's all good.

If he tries to solo every single boss, it might prove to frustrating and infuriating. I had problems myself, and I platinumed both previous Souls games. Yeah, I like watching Jeff discover the game by himself at his own peril, but only if he himself is enjoying it. Should the game proves to tedious to play, his frustration will be transfered to me. I want him to enjoy the game so I can enjoy watching him enjoy the game.

So play however you want, Jeff. Have fun.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

I fully support a grown man's decision to play a video game the way he wants.

#TeamThis

 

[hitgirl]

Hah, that was funny how someone made Jeff's character and seems to be using fist weapons.

On a summoning note: I was really against summoning throughout this game, but I'm really not enjoying it nearly as much as Dark Souls I or Demon Souls. There's some areas in this game where the level design is so bad I just want to get past it ASAP, so I after learning the boss fight is just as plain as the level.

 

[nbthedude]

It's all good, man. I appreciate the honesty and the feedback! It's the only way I'll improve as a livestreamer. Which I actually am interested in doing!

So, again, wasn't trying to sound defensive. Just pointing out that I really am NOT planning on summoning through the game. Whether you come back or not.

cheers!

I can't speak for everyone but I'd be willing to bet that if you asked whether people would rather watch you throw yourself against a boss 20 times and be victorious on the 21st or summon on the 3rd and "save everybody time" that the the overwhelming majority would say the 1st option makes for the better stream. I'm saying this because I don't get the impression you realize it given some of the comments you made in the past during the stream.

Part of my evidence for this (aside from playing towards the nearly universally appealing underdog narrative) is the fact that every time you have apologetically told the chat you will only try a boss a few time more times and go do something else, I don't think I ever saw a single person in the chat say they would rather you go do the other thing. Instead the vast majority tries to encourage you and persuade you to keep trying. You can't always see this because you are streaming and obviously only glancing over occasionally, but I've watched every stream and I've never seen the mythical disgrunteld person upset that you keep trying a given boss over and over again. At most I have seen people on occasion seem to suggest you "take a break" from a boss because they were worried about your sanity or you being demoralized. People want the catharsis. Boss fights are like the climaxes in action movies and bailing on them is like watching a 2 hour movie and then seeing the hero go "fuck it, this is too much, I'm gonna do something else" and leaving the audience hanging. The longer the journey to victory the more satisfying it is, same goes for both the viewer and the player. They want the victory and to celebrate it with you. That's why a lot of people watch the stream.

Of course if it ever gets to the point where it's not fun for you, there is no reason to keep throwing yourself at the wall just to please the crowd. But I sometimes get the sense that you want ot make sure the stream "keeps moving" and I've never once seen anyone voice the opinion that they cared in the least that you weren't covering enough ground in a given stream. Only concerns that you might be getting demoralized but always hoping you'll stick to it and pull through.

And by the way, sorry if I seemed too harsh earlier. I certainly didn't mean anything personally but was commenting the same way you would if an episode of a TV series kind of soured you on a series and you weren't sure if you wanted to keep watching. It's just that in this case the "episode" is some dude playing through a videogame and that dude happens to be right there hearing your comments. We live in strange times.

 

[Wolff]

Jeff is the only streamer i've been watching live. Him having fun with the game and doing the game as he wishes, even if it's not the way i prefer, is what makes things funnier and more interesting than someone just doing what the comments say.

I prefer the no summon route, but i didn't see a problem there. It made the moment funnier specially because of his choice. SissyFists was just great. lol

I propose the following rule: Jeff does not summon allies for bosses until after his 10th solo try. Once he's on his 11th, it's all good.

That would be a good one.

 

[Jintor]

I fully support a grown man's decision to play a video game the way he wants.

disgusting. i'll see you in court

 

[JeffGreen]

I can't speak for everyone but I'd be willing to bet that if you asked whether people would rather watch you throw yourself against a boss 20 times and be victorious on the 21st or summon on the 3rd and "save everybody time" that the the overwhelming majority would say the 1st option makes for the better stream. I'm saying this because I don't get the impression you realize it given some of the comments you made in the past during the stream.

Part of my evidence for this (aside from playing towards the nearly universally appealing underdog narrative) is the fact that every time you have apologetically told the chat you will only try a boss a few time more times and go do something else, I don't think I ever saw a single person in the chat say they would rather you go do the other thing. Instead the vast majority tries to encourage you and persuade you to keep trying. You can't always see this because you are streaming and obviously only glancing over occasionally, but I've watched every stream and I've never seen the mythical disgrunteld person upset that you keep trying a given boss over and over again. At most I have seen people on occasion seem to suggest you "take a break" from a boss because they were worried about your sanity or you being demoralized. People want the catharsis. Boss fights are like the climaxes in action movies and bailing on them is like watching a 2 hour movie and then seeing the hero go "fuck it, this is too much, I'm gonna do something else" and leaving the audience hanging. The longer the journey to victory the more satisfying it is, same goes for both the viewer and the player. They want the victory and to celebrate it with you. That's why a lot of people watch the stream.

Of course if it ever gets to the point where it's not fun for you, there is no reason to keep throwing yourself at the wall just to please the crowd. But I sometimes get the sense that you want ot make sure the stream "keeps moving" and I've never once seen anyone voice the opinion that they cared in the least that you weren't covering enough ground in a given stream. Only concerns that you might be getting demoralized but always hoping you'll stick to it and pull through.

And by the way, sorry if I seemed too harsh earlier. I certainly didn't mean anything personally but was commenting the same way you would if an episode of a TV series kind of soured you on a series and you weren't sure if you wanted to keep watching. It's just that in this case the "episode" is some dude playing through a videogame and that dude happens to be right there hearing your comments. We live in strange times.

All of my favorite TV shows ever -- except maybe for The Wire and Breaking Bad - had shitty episodes now and then. I get it, and lord knows I don't think my shit doesn't stink.

But, your points (and those of others) are well taken. It's hard to know on my end of things what's entertaining or interesting to others and what's not. I may have underestimated the appeal of someone beating one's head against a boss repeatedly. It's not like *I* get tired of it--but I get self-conscious that maybe it just feels tedious. (And this probablycomes from glancing at chat and seeing an endless scroll of "SUMMON ALREADY FFS.)

Like I said, though, no need to apologize. I screwed up letting your rant stand by replying. It's kind of not fair of me to be in here in that way. I should let people bitch at will and just shaddap and take it.

But....the bigger point is that this is all still a very new (and fun!) thing in ye olde gaming media and the more feedback I get the better I can figger out how to keep it fun for all of us. So thank you!

 

[The Dear Leader]

For what it's worth Jeff, I like your streams how they are, If I wanted a master class in Dark Souls II I would go someplace else (no offense, Dipshit), what's funny/entertaining to me is your interaction with the game and you trying to understand it and get good at it. It's cool seeing someone go from 0 knowledge to beating a really hard game, just like you did with DS1. Rant over, just wanted to let you know there's always going to be peeps that watch your stream regardless of how well you do at the game (like myself).

 

[Haunted]

The most important thing is that part 5 will obviously be a master class in Dark Souls 2 speedrunning.

I'll have my pad ready to take notes.

 

[AlimNassor]

I like to see Jeff take forever. After this finishes no more live streaming. I'll miss him, I'll be missing a part of my week. Maybe it's just he's a damn good streamer, he's amusing, he's got spunk.

jeff, make a hex mage. It's so much to gank ppl with Greater Soul Resonance.

This Sunday stream was the stream I probably gave up watching Jeff Green play Dark Souls. I've been a fan of Jeff for a really really long time. I listened every episode him in the old GFW days, followed through Out of the Game, and watch all of his DS1 stream episodes. Hell, I even signed up for TWO subscriptions to his Dark Souls streams because I wanted to show my support and pay him back for the entertainment. So I actually never thought I'd say I wasn't interested in more Jeff Green content of any type; I think Jeff's generally a charming guy.

It's not because Jeff was struggling this stream. I have no problem with the struggle. That is actually what made these streams so great. His DS1 stream was a real underdog against the odds narrative, but he didn't give up. This stream he gave up on literally the first boss in the entire game. It wouldn't have been so bad if it was not one of the easiest boss in whole the game or if he tried more than five or six times before he gave up.

I'm not a DS expert nor am I some kind of silly "hardcore" purest against summoning. But summoning on the easiest boss in the game after only five tries is a terrible sign for what's to come.

In short, this is no longer an underdog Rocky story. It's now a "Rocky hires his fans to win his fights and give him free stuff because he can't be bothered" story. That story kind of sucks and is not very interesting to watch. A very very large part of the appeal of watching Dark Souls streams is watching people discover and overcome. Now that chat tells him what to do and fans are summoned in to give him free shit and help beat bosses for him this stream has neither discovery nor overcoming.

Oh well, there's always Kay.

talk about melo-dramatic. Kay is overrated. She's boring, she's not amusing, she has no charisma. Jeff always blunders through, he's entertaining, he's charismatic.

 

[John Caboose]

I wont throw myself into the big discussion that's been going on but watching others summon Jeff has been very fun. Especially Shaaaaa. It's a great way to discover new areas and maybe even paths you never knew existed. Also a great way to go human without using a human effigy.

Spoiler

Shaaaaa.

 

[Jintor]

I think everyone's in favour of other people summoning Jeff.

 

[semiconscious]

Kay is overrated. She's boring, she's not amusing, she has no charisma. Jeff always blunders through, he's entertaining, he's charismatic...

so true. because, if someone's not regularly getting hit in the face with a pie, it just can't be all that entertaining/funny ...

 

[snesfanboy]

Jeff, enjoying your stream, don't fret over summoning, BUT...

i would advise to try the bosses at least a few times solo, if only to learn some patterns, then you could always be summoned/use human effigy to get human and then summon yourself

also, try to more quickly upgrade your gear (armor + weapon) can make life easier

 

[iuuk]

Regardless of all complaints about what is fun and what not I would like to say that I really liked the Euro friendly time, couldn't have been timed better. Thanks for not forgetting us, Jeff, even if God still spites us by disrupting the stream.
I hope there are many more of these streams to come.

 

[nbthedude]

All of my favorite TV shows ever -- except maybe for The Wire and Breaking Bad - had shitty episodes now and then. I get it, and lord knows I don't think my shit doesn't stink.

It's a fair point. I realize it was an overreaction to a single boss encounter thus far. I was primarily going off of what you said during the video after you summoned for this (fairly easy boss) that you plan on summoning a lot more. I jumped to the conclusion that if you summoned for this easy boss and said you planned on doing a lot more of it that that meant you were kind of giving up on the attempt to take the game on w/o frequent help. Nice to know I was wrong.

Like I said, though, no need to apologize. I screwed up letting your rant stand by replying. It's kind of not fair of me to be in here in that way. I should let people bitch at will and just shaddap and take it.

Don't let me discourage you from interacting with the community and I very much appreciate your response myself. I was just commenting on the metaphorical phenonemon of complaining at the TV and then turning around and finding the person on the TV in the room beside you. That seems to happen a lot on the internet, especially where social media is concerned. But it's also the awesome part. And for your part you've always handled it extremely well and been very kind and even tempered even in the face of criticism.

talk about melo-dramatic. Kay is overrated. She's boring, she's not amusing, she has no charisma. Jeff always blunders through, he's entertaining, he's charismatic.

I'm okay disagreeing with anyone who hyphenates the word "melodramatic." #mortalenemy

 

[nbthedude]

I think everyone's in favour of other people summoning Jeff.

Yep this is the perfect solution to the online conundrum and it's the one Kay actually came to as well.

Laying down Large white soap stones to help with bosses or small white soap stones to just help with a few enemies and get your humanity back totally cool. It leaves your own challenge intact for you and awaiting your return and it's a fun way to interact with the online community.

 

[Sentenza]

All of my favorite TV shows ever -- except maybe for The Wire and Breaking Bad - had shitty episodes now and then.

Obligatory:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIom3LSbB0I

 

[nbthedude]

Obligatory:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIom3LSbB0I

Too bad Family Guy didn't have a brainwashing episode cause it's pretty difficult to convince anyone that show is funny or intelligent social commentary. If you are going to try to make fun of two (rightfully) well acclaimed shows because of your own intellectual penis envy, you could at least put forth the effort at making a satirical point about why you think they are undeserving. But Seth Green's satirical vapidity knows no bounds. I blame him for giving the word satire a undeservedly bad name. It now apparently means "reference something then roll your eyes and/or laugh ironically."

 

[Sentenza]

Too bad Family Guy didn't have a brainwashing episode cause it's pretty difficult to convince anyone that show is funny or intelligent social commentary.

I guess if there are people liking South Park and finding it clever, then there's room for everyone.
Not that i care about defending Family Guy. All I watched about the show are sparse fragments on Youtube.

 

[nbthedude]

I guess if there are people liking South Park and finding it clever, then there's room for everyone.
Not that i care about defending Family Guy. All I watched about the show are sparse fragments on Youtube.

Sorry, I'm just bitter at Seth Green for bankrupting the concept of satire. And for thinking his show is good enough to riff on All in the Family, which is a show that exhibited infinitely more talent and complex social satire than his soundbyte cultured brain can handle. #oldmanrant.

 

[JeffGreen]

Sorry, I'm just bitter at Seth Green for bankrupting the concept of satire. And for thinking his show is good enough to riff on All in the Family, which is a show that exhibited infinitely more talent and complex social satire than his soundbyte cultured brain can handle. #oldmanrant.

Obligatory "I am not related to Seth Green" disclaimer.

 

[crap monkey]

Good job on the stream Jeff, haven't been able to catch one live yet but I've seen all the VODs. Don't get used too much to summoning! But you should engage in some of the PVP covenants at some point, that'd be fun to see.

 

[SeventhSon]

Sorry, I'm just bitter at Seth Green for bankrupting the concept of satire. And for thinking his show is good enough to riff on All in the Family, which is a show that exhibited infinitely more talent and complex social satire than his soundbyte cultured brain can handle. #oldmanrant.

Seth MacFarlane, unless you're referring to Robot Chicken.

Both Family Guy and American Dad followed the same trajectory; initially funny, fresh, then fell off a rapid cliff of one note humor and self-referential call backs.

 

[nbthedude]

Seth MacFarlane, unless you're referring to Robot Chicken.

Both Family Guy and American Dad followed the same trajectory; initially funny, fresh, then fell off a rapid cliff of one note humor and self-referential call backs.

Whoops. Yeah I have no problem with Seth Green. Buffy's pretty cool and all. And that guy he played in Mass Effect was alright too. My apologies to Greens everywhere, including Jeff, for confusing them with McFarlands.

 

[Haunted]

Whoops. Yeah I have no problem with Seth Green. Buffy's pretty cool and all. And that guy he played in Mass Effect was alright too. My apologies to Greens everywhere, including Jeff, for confusing them with McFarlands.

McFarland is a solid independent book publisher, not sure why you're continuing your slanderous campaign with them.

Seth MacFarlane is a fucking hack tho

 

[sublimit]

Hey Jeff just finished watching your first DS2 stream (on Youtube,Twitch was kinda laggy) and i couldn't help but notice the DS2 defence force going for your throat in the Youtube comments.

Don't mind them you are absolutely right that the animations feel floaty and weightless compared to DS1.This is actually a very common complaint about DS2 ever since the Online Test (maybe even earlier).In general the whole game feels very different (combat as well) compared to DS1 but that's to be expected since it was made by a different director and team than the first game.

 

[AlimNassor]

Will youplay demon souls next?

 

[SeventhSon]

Will youplay demon souls next?

He mentioned he might, but he would need a capture card to use with the PS3.

 

[Tevious]

Don't listen to anyone telling you to play a mage class, Jeff. That's basically easy mode in this game. Some of these spells do the damage of 3-4 hits from a +10 weapon with just a single casting, AND it's ranged. I think we mostly all want to see your struggle as you overcome the challenges in the game. Stick to melee combat. If you use any magic, stick to buffs.

As for summoning, I think its fine if you summon an NPC to help, which many bosses do have. You'll need that little bit of help from some of these bosses. If you can't find them, have chat point you in the right direction. I don't think you should summon other players unless you're still failing after over 20 tries and you give up. However, I do think you should allow yourself to be summoned into other people's games to help you familiarize yourself with each boss. You won't lose your health if you die that way and you won't waste all your Effigies restoring your health. BTW, the big summon is for bosses and the small summon is for a timed session (good for cooping areas or with PVP).

And I don't know what you were thinking with the

Spoiler

Last Giant

boss as far as not locking-on, but you need to lock-on and you need to manage lock-on. Lock-on when you are attacking, and lock-off when you run away. You were missing with your attacks far too often and you were struggling with the camera at the same time.

 

[nbthedude]

Jeff I know your new job is nifty and stuff but the public NEEDS you:

http://www.giantbomb.com/forums/general-discussion-30/hey-were-hiring-and-stuff-1482674/?page=1

Once in a life time man. For you and for us.

 

[Feindflug]

I wont throw myself into the big discussion that's been going on but watching others summon Jeff has been very fun. Especially Shaaaaa. It's a great way to discover new areas and maybe even paths you never knew existed. Also a great way to go human without using a human effigy.

Spoiler

Shaaaaa.

Yep, seeing Jeff helping other players was really fun and refreshing at the same time.

Also I know that it's being said a lot of times already here and in the chat but seriously Jeff should play however he wants...co-op or not, mage or melee Jeff should have fun since that's the point of playing a freakin' videogame even if you share the experience with others. If I'd like to see a challenge run I'd watch a different guy, I watch Jeff because I have fun and guess what the best streams are when he is also enjoying the game as well. Hell that's the reason we are playing videogames isn't it? I don't see why some are analyzing such a simple thing so much.

 

[Trick_GSF]

I've had "Shaaaa" stuck in my head since yesterday.

Shaaaaa

Spoiler

Shaaaa

 

[ebullientprism]

Wouldn't be a Dark Souls playthrough without the "fanbase" telling the player that everything you try (from summoning to magic) is cheap and isnt how DaS is meant to be played. I am dead certain at some point in this playthrough someone will be yelling at you for using good armor or having invested too much into health.

Lets face it Jeff, the only way these people would be happy is if you beat the game SL1 with your fists without healing.

So either do that or play however you have fun. Screw the whiners.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

Jeff I know your new job is nifty and stuff but the public NEEDS you:

http://www.giantbomb.com/forums/general-discussion-30/hey-were-hiring-and-stuff-1482674/?page=1

Once in a life time man. For you and for us.

That Summer internship has Jeff written all over it.

 

[MrDaravon]

Catching up on the new episodes on Youtube and I see that there's episodes 4a and 4c up, but no 4b?

Also I'm sure Jeff is tired of people telling him that he should work at Giant Bomb, but that would literally be the most perfect fit for them. I would die of happiness.

 

[Doopliss]

Anthony Gallegos is streaming Dark Souls II now http://www.twitch.tv/chufmoney

Chuf is really disappointing me with his "entitled journo critique" when he has no clue what he's talking about.

Haha you weren't joking.

This is the rant he goes on upon reading the second tutorial message in the game:

"Right bumper is the attack button? Who the fuck designed these controls? Who said that this... that's a good attack button? Right bumper. Instead of fucking 'X' or even 'trigger'. Like, urgh. It's fucking... garbage.

"In FPSes the controls at least make sense - trigger, aim. But this... It's, like, other games have established: Face buttons are what you use for character action games. I dunno.

"'SeventhSon: Anthony you sound like an entitle game journo.' Fuck off. You know I was a game journalist for six years and I will say this: That, as much as devs like to criticise them, game journalists have a point which is that a lot of things in these games are kinda fucked up, and it's like they try to be different for the sake of being different. It doesn't make it good. You don't need to deviate from a standard just because you think it'll make your game different. Or harder or..."

I guess six years of game journalism lets you make calls like that while knowing only a quarter of the controls.

 

[hitgirl]

Hah, that's pretty bad.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

Obligatory "I am not related to Seth Green" disclaimer.

I don't know man, you seemed to be mentioning that name a lot in the Dark Souls 1 playthrough.

 

[HamPster PamPster]

Not like this Chuf. Not like this... This is what happens when years of GFW Radio is replaced with years of Rebel FM

 

[John Caboose]

Haha you weren't joking.

This is the rant he goes on upon reading the second tutorial message in the game:



I guess six years of game journalism lets you make calls like that while knowing only a quarter of the controls.

Wow. I thought it was weird as fuck in the beginning too but once I learned how the game played it was so obvious why the controls are what they are.

 

[nbthedude]

Haha you weren't joking.

This is the rant he goes on upon reading the second tutorial message in the game:



I guess six years of game journalism lets you make calls like that while knowing only a quarter of the controls.

Actually the worst part is this:

journalists have a point which is that a lot of things in these games are kinda fucked up, and it's like they try to be different for the sake of being different

I don't know a lot about game development. But I'm willing to bet that never in the history of game design did anyone ever say "hey let's be different for the sake of being different." That's a pretty vapid generalization. In fairness to Anthony it is doubtless that Arthur Gies constant insistence the Souls games "are objectively mechanically bad" influenced Anthony so that he wasn't even willing to give it a real chance. Too bad. I think the Souls series has a careful attention to detail and a rich dark fantasy world that he would really love if he could get past his predisposition to write them off.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

I love the Milla (sp?) cameos.

That growling noise she was making at Jeff because she was hungry had my wife cracking up. I, on the other hand, just wanted to try that chicken-jerky. I have no shame in sneaking a taste at certain dog treats. :}

 

[SeventhSon]

Jeff Green ‏@Greenspeak 2h

Lunchtime round of Hearthstone matched me against "UrMomsTits."

Jeff Green ‏@Greenspeak 1h

Just put a taunt on Alexstrasza and now UrMomTits isn't so happy.

 

[SeventhSon]

Jeff Green ‏@Greenspeak 1m

Dark Souls 2 livestream tonight at 6:30 Pacific. (Sorry, european friends!) Spoiler alert: I may die a couple times.

 

[SeventhSon]

Jeff is live! http://www.twitch.tv/greenspeak

 

[pancasdf]

Am I the only one who giggles every time Dipshit shimmies his hips when he climbs up ladders?

 

[nowai]

Do you even stamina bro?!