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[Salvadora]

Either a game has significant appeal or it doesn't. The starvation argument might hold *some* merit, but that doesn't explain the apparently extraordinary sales.

I don't think it's necessary to take an absolutist all or nothing view of this.

Snake Pass, for example, may have gotten less attention if it had more competition.

Or perhaps even the Neo Geo games if they were competing with an extensive library of Virtual Console games.

However, like I said, I don't agree when it comes to Mario Kart.

 

[El Topo]

I don't think it's necessary to take an absolutist all or nothing view of this.

Snake Pass, for example, may have gotten less attention if it had more competition.

Or perhaps even the Neo Geo games if they were competing with an extensive library of Virtual Console games.

However, like I said, I don't agree when it comes to Mario Kart.

I'm referring to, as the OP puts it, a "mega-hit on a different scale altogether". Obviously if you have no or little competition that is beneficial.

 

[mavericktopgun]

Yeah. Not every console launches with the best Zelda and best Mario Kart ever.

This.

Best Zelda and best MK ever.
Love both

 

[PataHikari]

How is this "starved for games" thing different than any other console launch ever?

 

[jts]

Mario Kart sold 37 million copies on Wii.

Starved for games my ass.

 

[Salvadora]

I'm referring to, as the OP puts it, a "mega-hit on a different scale altogether". Obviously if you have no or little competition that is beneficial.

I was referring to the console warrior talking point parroted in this thread.

 

[El Topo]

I was referring to the console warrior talking point parroted in this thread.

No sane person doubts that if you release a game with no or little competition it might be beneficial for its sales. Now actual starvation? Probably not really an appropriate term for all this.
Then again, who knows? I'm sure one could look at past data to see if this is true. Where are our sales-age experts?

Edit:
Apologies though for approaching your original post from the wrong perspective. I should have taken the context more into account. Sorry.

 

[cw_sasuke]

I don't think the "starved for games" argument is entirely without merit.

Titles can sometimes get an extra boost around console launches by virtue of the limited amount of software available.

But I don't think this is applicable when the title in question is Mario Kart.

I don't think that's true at all.

We largely have two kind of Switch owners. People who only own Nintendo Systems or the Switch and people who own at least one other main platform. The majority of people getting a Switch in the first months are hardcore players who likely own a Gaming PC, another MS/Sony console or a 3DS. The likelihood of a Switch owners literally starving for something to play, resulting in them having to buy games they wouldn't otherwise is ridiculous... People would spent their money on the other platforms or hobbies they own. Everyone complains about the ridiculous Q1 we had this year, their enormous backlogs etc. but now Switch users are starving so much that they will spend money on literally everything? Worked out well on WiiU.

If someone only own a Switch the likelihood of them not having played most Indies or multiplattform title is quite high - so they would have enough to try out.

Not many people buy games they don't want or plan to play because they are starving for games.

 

[neohwa]

I'm not sure how you are happy about this unless you are Nintendo.

It's not a new game, it's just a port that we have bought and played long time ago. Battle mode should be free DLC.

A Wii U port selling well doesn't mean we will get more new games. It means we will get more Wii U ports.

That's good for people who skipped the Wii U and can now play them in portable mode though.

With that said, please port FF5 uncensored, Mario 3D world, and skyward sword.

 

[Mediking]

Anybody...uhhh... wanna buy me a digital code for MK8D?

Ha... just joking...

 

[ggx2ac]

Now I figured it out.

"Starved for games" is the new "Artificial Scarcity."

 

[gtj1092]

Is he saying Mario kart 8 deluxe will be 5 to 10 times bigger than Wii?

And the sentence "all time high of 2017" is so misleading.

 

[Salvadora]

I don't think that's true at all.

We largely have two kind of Switch owners. People who only own Nintendo Systems or the Switch and people who own at least one other main platform. The majority of people getting a Switch in the first months are hardcore players who likely own a Gaming PC, another MS/Sony console or a 3DS. The likelihood of a Switch owners literally starving for something to play, resulting in them having to buy games they wouldn't otherwise is ridiculous... People would spent their money on the other platforms or hobbies they own. Everyone complains about the ridiculous Q1 we had this year, their enormous backlogs etc. but now Switch users are starving so much that they will spend money on literally everything? Worked out well on WiiU.

If someone only own a Switch the likelihood of them not having played most Indies or multiplattform title is quite high - so they would have enough to try out.

Not many people buy games they don't want or plan to play because they are starving for games.

I don't agree with the "starving for games" argument either.

I've further elaborated on what I meant by that in subsequent posts.

 

[Herb Alpert]

Now I figured it out.

"Starved for games" is the new "Artificial Scarcity."

Coming soon: "it's just a fad"

 

[ggx2ac]

Coming soon: "it's just a fad"

Hold up, you're getting ahead there.

First it's, "Sales will fall off a cliff once all Wii U owners buy a Switch."

and then, "Sales will fall off a cliff once all 3DS owners buy a Switch."

Then, "It's just a fad."

 

[sphinx]

Hold up, you're getting ahead there.

First it's, "Sales will fall off a cliff once all Wii U owners buy a Switch."

and then, "Sales will fall off a cliff once all 3DS owners buy a Switch."

Then, "It's just a fad."

also, don't forget

"Of course Mario Odyssey broke all records for Mario-3D games, it's their only Q4 game, switch gamers are starved for games and they had nothing else to buy!"

 

[LewieP]

How is this "starved for games" thing different than any other console launch ever?

Other consoles launched with Call of Duty, FIFA, Madden, Assassin's Creed etc.

Obviously MK8D is a very successful game, and Mario Kart in general is one of the longest running consistent high selling game series there is, but the quick sales out of the gate is obviously somewhat aided by a variety of factors beyond just that it is a very appealing game.

I think Nintendo did the right thing by not blowing their load too early. By spreading out their big first party releases, each is going to get more attention (I expect Splatoon 2 to sell very well too), but it's undeniable that factors like the availability of games, the nature of Nintendo's early adopter fanbase, the poor sales of the Wii U etc are all factors in the current market conditions for Switch software. That's not a bad thing.

I don't think this analysis is particularly astute, but the impressive sales of Zelda on Switch and now MK8D on Switch are nice reminders of how much Nintendo's top tier stuff can resonate with their audience if they get the market proposition as a whole right, which they've not really done to this kind of level since the Wii/DS days (except for perhaps the perfect storm of Pokémon Sun/Moon).

 

[Oregano]

The poor sales of the Wii U are irrelevant because the Switch's install base is lower than the Wii U's was when MK8 released.

 

[MCN]

Other consoles launched with Call of Duty, FIFA, Madden, Assassin's Creed etc.

So a load of shite, then?

 

[Passose]

also, don't forget

"Of course Mario Odyssey broke all records for Mario-3D games, it's their only Q4 game, switch gamers are starved for games and they had nothing else to buy!"

we will need this post later on lol

 

[kyser73]

Hmm, Mr Goyal seemingly didn't pay any attention to TLOU:R and GTAV ports to the next gen if he genuinely thought MK8 wouldn't sell.

Ninentendo are bringing 5 core IPs to the Switch in its first 12 months following a platform which was by most counts a failure. Irrespective of whether people are starved for games or not (which they arent) that's the equivalent of PS4 launching with UC4, GTS & GoW. Of course they're going to sell, these are the titles people are buying the platform for.

This is not to denigrate the success the of the title at all, but to say a new (and quite superb) MK selling well on a platform that's been bought by some of most hardcore platform fans who've been fiending for goodness since the Wii is some kind of surprise...well, I have to question the sector knowledge of Mr Goyal.

 

[ggx2ac]

Other consoles launched with Call of Duty, FIFA, Madden, Assassin's Creed etc.

And I as pointed out in my earlier post, those games you listed come out at the end of the year, not the beginning.

If Nintendo wanted Switch to have western AAA third party​ titles at its launch like the Wii U did, it would have had to launch during November.

They couldn't, so either western publishers decide to port last years games for launch which would do shit since they are front loaded and have sequels annually or, they release a AAA title exclusively at launch for the Switch.

Obviously western publishers aren't going to risk that so instead we see other third parties reap the benefits of the launch such as Konami that have shipped 500k copies of Super Bomberman R which has greatly outperformed all their previous titles in sales.

And then Indies and small publishers on the eShop are greatly benefitting from the lack of competition from western AAA titles because people are buying their games where we know for example that Hamster announced that 200k downloads have happened for their Neo Geo games.

Doesn't sound like players are starved for games as opposed to western AAA publishers missing their opportunity to make cash at launch because of choosing to wait and see.

 

[Principate]

Hmm, Mr Goyal seemingly didn't pay any attention to TLOU:R and GTAV ports to the next gen if he genuinely thought MK8 wouldn't sell.

Ninentendo are bringing 5 core IPs to the Switch in its first 12 months following a platform which was by most counts a failure. Irrespective of whether people are starved for games or not (which they arent) that's the equivalent of PS4 launching with UC4, GTS & GoW. Of course they're going to sell, these are the titles people are buying the platform for.

This is not to denigrate the success the of the title at all, but to say a new (and quite superb) MK selling well on a platform that's been bought by some of most hardcore platform fans who've been fiending for goodness since the Wii is some kind of surprise...well, I have to question the sector knowledge of Mr Goyal.

Eh I find your analysis pretty weird. Tell me did you honestly think MK8D would outsell the wii's launch of the game in America before it was announced.

Yoy say it was going to do that well as expected is revisionist history at it's height and I was one of the few people in here that expected Duxe to sell extreme well since it was announced.

 

[Octavianus]

Hold up, you're getting ahead there.

First it's, "Sales will fall off a cliff once all Wii U owners buy a Switch."

and then, "Sales will fall off a cliff once all 3DS owners buy a Switch."

Then, "It's just a fad."

Not enough 'real games'.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

I don't think it's constructive to hand wave the "starved for games" argument, although there are ways about articulating said argument. There's no doubt in my mind that Mario Kart 8 Deluxe would have been wildly successful even if it released alongside a ton of other Switch games, but it definitely benefited from having little to no competition during it's release window. Look at Bomber Man R - we have a thread on GAF where people are arguing that third parties should have got their shit together for the Switch's launch to capitalise on the lack of competition, using Bomber Man R's success as an example. And it makes sense, no? The less software to compete with, the higher chances of a high quality product doing better numbers.

On the flip side, I think there's only so many consumers who would have impulse bought Mario Kart because they NEEDED a game to play. Mario Kart sold well because it's Mario Kart. Look at how well vanilla MK8 did in spite of Wii U's minuscule install base. A combination of being the best Mario Kart game ever and a lack of competition got the sales results we see today. That's all there is to it.

 

[Azerare]

also, don't forget

"Of course Mario Odyssey broke all records for Mario-3D games, it's their only Q4 game, switch gamers are starved for games and they had nothing else to buy!"

My eyes are rolling all over because these are all guaranteed to be said this year =y

 

[ggx2ac]

I don't think it's constructive to hand wave the "starved for games" argument, although there are ways about articulating said argument.

"Starved for games" is a phrase being used to downplay the success of Mario Kart 8 Deluxe.

If we wanted to discuss this seriously, then it's to discuss the "lack of competition of AAA titles from third parties" on the Switch.

 

[kyser73]

Eh I find your analysis pretty weird. Tell me did you honestly think MK8D would outsell the wii's launch of the game in America before it was announced.

Yoy say it was going to do that well as expected is revisionist history at it's height and I was one of the few people in here that expected Duxe to sell extreme well since it was announced.

I didn't actually make any predictions about MK8D so please don't drop that revisionist history bullshit on me. I have said the Mario Odyssey will have the biggest opening of any Mario game in Nintendo's history, and was part of the consensus view about BotW attaining 1:1 adoption.

In your haste to condemn my post through your fanboy lenses my main criticism is of the analyst being surprised that a core IP wouldnt sell well in a market that has shifted to:

Massively front-loaded sales compared to 10 years ago.
The success of remaster/remakes on existing next gen platforms.

But please, continue to be insecure about your favoured platform's success.

 

[AdventureRacing]

I didn't actually make any predictions about MK8D so please don't drop that revisionist history bullshit on me. I have said the Mario Odyssey will have the biggest opening of any Mario game in Nintendo's history, and was part of the consensus view about BotW attaining 1:1 adoption.

In your haste to condemn my post through your fanboy lenses my main criticism is of the analyst being surprised that a core IP wouldnt sell well in a market that has shifted to:

Massively front-loaded sales compared to 10 years ago.
The success of remaster/remakes on existing next gen platforms.

But please, continue to be insecure about your favoured platform's success.

His point was that it's easy to say that MK8D was always going to sell this well after the fact. Where were you saying how obvious this was a few weeks ago? No one predicted it to sell this well out of the gate and many doubted it would sell anywhere near online a new Mario kart game.

Your poor attempts to make another poster look biased really lowers the quality of this discussion.

Edit: you didn't understand his post at all and became defensive because you assumed he was calling you a fanboy (and in reaction you childishly called him one).

 

[kyser73]

His point was that it's easy to say that MK8D was always going to sell this well after the fact. Where were you saying how obvious this was a few weeks ago? No one predicted it to sell this well out of the gate and many doubted it would sell anywhere near online a new Mario kart game.

Your poor attempts to make another poster look biased really lowers the quality of this discussion.

Edit: you didn't understand his post at all and became defensive because you assumed he was calling you a fanboy (and in reaction you childishly called him one).

My criticism is of the analyst in the OP failing to take account of existing market conditions regarding the success of remasters and the changed front loading in sales since the Wii. Principate then accused me of revisionist history.

 

[FreedomFighter]

The salt in this thread!

Have we ever had a thread regarding the psychology behind Nintendo Haters? It's remarkable!

We should. Cause it's amazing. These folks hate Nintendo and are salty about any positive news regarding them... BUT, the key here is it really pisses them off that people actually enjoy Nintendo's software when they don't. They hate when Nintendo Direct threads kill GAF. They would rather that passion be reserved for their system of choice. So they can't help themselves but to come in these threads to shit post. People enjoying Nintendo games and celebrating the company's success literally drives them mad!

 

[Phoenix RISING]

Ah, man... The predictable eye-roller was almost first post.

Can't wait until more people can get should of Switches and MK8D.

But I already have MK8 Wii U.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

But I already have MK8 Wii U.

That's good to hear, man. I've been told that game is great.

 

[TheMagician]

Imagine getting to the point in your life where you're getting all upset and annoyed about a video game selling really well on a new console, just because In your head you don't want them to do well.

Mental.

I don't have an Xbox One and have no interest in getting one but I can't imagine storming an Xbox One sales thread and getting all angry and derogatory about it. You know why? Because that would be incredibly weird behaviour.

 

[llien]

We should. Cause it's amazing. These folks hate Nintendo and are salty about any positive news regarding them...

I think you are overreacting, guys.
I own (or rather my kids own) 2 3DSes, I don't find any of the games they play appealing, but I don't have any strong feelings about Nintendo (either way).

I do feel that "huge success" of switch (given its technical capabilities and price) is too early to claim. Some would say it is salty, but I think it's just pragmatic.Let's give it a year or so and then judge.

The same goes with "indie games are also games" argument. Welp, Vita is such an active platform at the moment, if so, sensitivechuckle.gif.

 

[requiem02]

Vita is an active platform despite being abandoned by Sony, so I'm not sure what you're saying there.

 

[ggx2ac]

Just to add from my previous posts, you should remember why PS Vita gets tons of indie support every year even though it is a system that has probably sold 14 million units worldwide. (But Sony no longer discloses how many Vitas they shipped.)

Because Vita doesn't get AAA titles from western publishers like the PS4 does. So Indies and small publishers greatly benefit from not having to face that competition hence that userbase is more likely to buy indie games.

Until western AAA titles comes to Switch which might not be until the end of the year, indies and small publishers will continue to benefit from the userbase buying their games because there is a lack of competition from the absence of those western publishers with AAA titles.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

The same goes with "indie games are also games" argument. Welp, Vita is such an active platform at the moment, if so, sensitivechuckle.gif.

I would argue that the Western world know less about what the Vita is than what the Wii U is. Indie games ain't gonna help that.

 

[Principate]

My criticism is of the analyst says it the OP failing to take account of existing market conditions regarding the success of remasters and the changed front loading in sales since the Wii. Principate thenaccirsme of revisionist history.

My critism of your arguement is how likely do you think MK8D would have achieved this if someone asked you this question in February. Because it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise that if such a thread predicting this was made on gaf and most other sites that take interest in it the general consensus would be it's an unlikely prediction. (Hell on gaf you'd have several pages mocking the op for it and not without reason). I believe it wasn't that easy of prediction and if it had sold poorly equally valid arguements about market conditions would have implied as such.

 

[AniHawk]

Should of read

Just as Goyal released his investor’s note, and all his mates bught shares, Nintendo shares hit an all time high for 2017, and then his mates took profit.

yeah that's right - it's all a conspiracy...!

 

[IlGialloMondadori]

yeah that's right - it's all a conspiracy...!

It's clearly the only way there could be positive Nintendo news.

 

[jts]

I'm not sure how you are happy about this unless you are Nintendo.

It's not a new game, it's just a port that we have bought and played long time ago. Battle mode should be free DLC.

A Wii U port selling well doesn't mean we will get more new games. It means we will get more Wii U ports.

That's good for people who skipped the Wii U and can now play them in portable mode though.

With that said, please port FF5 uncensored, Mario 3D world, and skyward sword.

I'm happy because I'm playing a significantly better version of Mario Kart 8, with new modes to boot, and a renewed, thriving online community that will only grow larger.

Why wouldn't we be happy?

 

[Bluth54]

I don't think it's constructive to hand wave the "starved for games" argument, although there are ways about articulating said argument. There's no doubt in my mind that Mario Kart 8 Deluxe would have been wildly successful even if it released alongside a ton of other Switch games, but it definitely benefited from having little to no competition during it's release window. Look at Bomber Man R - we have a thread on GAF where people are arguing that third parties should have got their shit together for the Switch's launch to capitalise on the lack of competition, using Bomber Man R's success as an example. And it makes sense, no? The less software to compete with, the higher chances of a high quality product doing better numbers.

On the flip side, I think there's only so many consumers who would have impulse bought Mario Kart because they NEEDED a game to play. Mario Kart sold well because it's Mario Kart. Look at how well vanilla MK8 did in spite of Wii U's minuscule install base. A combination of being the best Mario Kart game ever and a lack of competition got the sales results we see today. That's all there is to it.

I think you're pretty accurate here. You can't ignore the fact that no major retail games are coming to Switch. Ghost Recon Wildlands, Neir, Mass Effect Andromeda, Persona 5, Sniper Ghost Warrior, Prey and Injustice 2 are all major retail games that have come out since the Switch launch that may of interested some Switch owners instead of Mario Kart.

Even if those games had come out on Switch Mario Kart 8 would of likely sold very well. However if it had more competition some may of chosen to buy other games instead of Mario Kart.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Too early to call it a success, it might sell 8 million then stop

Sarcasm I assume, otherwise, yeah, nothing screams "lack of success" like porting a game and selling 8 million.

 

[jts]

Mario Kart 8 Deluxe was always going to be the biggest game on Switch, regardless of when it's released and what's the competition like.

It's an absolute killer franchise, one of the biggest in gaming - maybe top 5. Combine that with the Switch currently killing it as well, and you'll get even crazier sales.

 

[Jawbreaker]

So a load of shite, then?

Outside of the NeoGAF bubble, those are beloved, system-selling titles that move a ton of units. And to be frank, Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag is actually a really good game.

 

[takriel]

Should of read

Just as Goyal released his investor’s note, and all his mates bught shares, Nintendo shares hit an all time high for 2017, and then his mates took profit.

* should have

 

[TheMagician]

I think you're pretty accurate here. You can't ignore the fact that no major retail games are coming to Switch. Ghost Recon Wildlands, Neir, Mass Effect Andromeda, Persona 5, Sniper Ghost Warrior, Prey and Injustice 2 are all major retail games that have come out since the Switch launch that may of interested some Switch owners instead of Mario Kart.

Even if those games had come out on Switch Mario Kart 8 would of likely sold very well. However if it had more competition some may of chosen to buy other games instead of Mario Kart.

Those sorts of games didn't come to the Wii either and there's no chance people would have bought them over Mario Kart anyway.

Nintendo are going to have their home console AND handheld games on this device. So double their usual output.

Obviously third parties haven't dived straight in though because of how badly the Wii U did. If Nintendo can keep the momentum then we will see a few games ported over and even some third party exclusives similar to what the Wii got.

Even a similar third party lineup to 3DS would be good from the Japanese dev side, that along with the Nintendo home & handheld games plus the indie scene and the console will have a fantastic library of games to choose from.

 

[takriel]

The salt in this thread!

Have we ever had a thread regarding the psychology behind Nintendo Haters? It's remarkable!

It's really a denouncement of teenage boys' and young adults' own childhood. They wanna be the grown-ups now, and they want their "mature" games to do good, not these kiddy Nintendo games that they used to enjoy but can't anymore because they have this "mature image" of themselves to keep up.

 

[Principate]

Outside of the NeoGAF bubble, those are beloved, system-selling titles that move a ton of units. And to be frank, Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag is actually a really good game.

Tbd though the specific versions of those games they launched with many of which were actually kinda poor. Ghosts had a poor reception which led to a decrease in sales for the series for a bit. Thee's a good reason why there wasn't a ghosts 2. BF4 was a complete mess at launch. Fifa was for a though so if your into that as many many are it was good. And assassin's creed black flag was well regarded though it's sequel certainly wasn't.

Many did tend to struggle with with that transition which how we ended up with stuff like SHadow of Mordor as GOTY.