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[MCD]

it's just a buggy piece of shit. speaking from experience managing hundreds of windows 8/8.1/10 PCs, metro/modern/UWP apps break just as often as win32 apps but are basically impossible to fix since they're designed to be inaccessible.

most of the time "fixing" problems with the store just involves a reimage.

They added a reset option in the settings to reset apps and games that fail to launch or got issues in the insider updates.

 

[Crimsonclaw111]

Lol those very miniscule sales in the Microsoft Store were also probably done via regional exploiting.

That's literally the only reason to buy it there.

 

[Nokterian]

I just love how people defend UWP and the windows store it is hilarious.

 

[aeolist]

They added a reset option in the settings to reset apps and games that fail to launch or got issues in the insider updates.

i don't have any PCs on the insider track but if that's just a UI option for the command line reset process it's usually ineffective

 

[Bluenoser]

Wait does this mean that MS's deal was a complete bust, since hardly anyone bought it on their platform? (for PC)

I would have expected it to be exclusive to Windows store if it was coming for PC. Guess they'll need to double check that contract next time.

 

[LordRaptor]

I was referring mainly to your UI adjustment comments, which is trivial.

Scaling a UI is - relatively - trivial, but adding new screens and buttons and hooking those buttons into calls that do things is still work to do, and is in fact not trivial.

I mean, this is a thing easily tested by anyone with literally any access to any form of development tool - download the UDK or Unity and see how long it takes to make a typical PC game options screen

e:
I mean, this is a reason why a lot of games just have some bare bones Options and dump a lot of stuff into an .ini file - UIs are hella time consuming to make

 

[Kathian]

I honestly haven't even gone into the store. MS hardly push it either.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Oh don't worry, they will fix it all up eventually like I've always said.

But by then it will be too late and the damage will be done. Then they will withdraw with their tails between their legs but blame the market... Something along the lines of "We tried but the appetite wasn't there from the PC gaming community".

Hopefully people will still be able to access and download their previous purchases this time round.

MS huge mistake was 'launching' the platform before it was ready...before these issues that any random beta tester would've been able to tell them about. My theory is that MS wanted to take advantage of the triple A exclusives that were releasing on the horizon so they rushed it out.

After the incredible good will gained from GFWL and MS' other PC gaming efforts (this is sarcasm) the LAST thing MS should've done is release an unfinished platform with basic features missing. It arrived dead on arrival due to this. Yes those issues are fixed or on the list but 90% of gamers aren't going to be tolerant and patient enough to not say "frack off MS, you had your chance"...and nobody can blame them for that. Only barely rational weirdos like myself are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. You fucked up, Microsoft. Had a chance to gain good will and blew it.

Keep burying your head in the sand then.

Nice ad hom to avoid the fact that one of your linked articles was about Windows Phone. Lol

 

[darkinstinct]

What do they mean the same is true for Minecraft? Game is not on Steam.

 

[Zedox]

You realize what "competition" means, right? Half-assed attempts with very poor execution against a well liked and superior-built opponent isn't competition, it's a simple scrimmage game for the better opponent. We shouldn't praise poor attempts to create a competing product. Competition means you bring something to the table that can actually compete. Microsoft has a VERY poor track record at this point for basically everything they've executed outside of the Windows operating system and their Xbox systems (talking about consumer products, not business, they've executed pretty well there). And they even fumbled the ball at the start of this generation on their Xbox platform.

To your first question: Yes.

No one is praising them for a poor attempt. First off, I knew how bad the store was way before other people even thought about using it (especially on this gaming focused board). I knew they weren't going to be "legit competing" against Steam coming out the gate with their AAA games especially knowing how bad the Store was. When I talk about "competition" is that it shouldn't "burn and die" (as someone said) because it has the potential to compete. Not saying that it is really competing right now. I want competition. I want them to be good so Steam even gets better (and have to release more exclusive games like Half Life 3) that gets more people on their platform. Wanting Steam to want everything is just as dumb as wanting Microsoft to have everything on the Windows Store.

I see people wanting to not do anything is because of GFWL (which is understandably so) and monopolistic views of MS. I understand that. But not having any competition is dumb. That's like saying Google shouldn't have worked on Android when iOS was out and it was definitely better than Android (experience wise at least). Google competed with Apple and now they are trying to one-up each other. That's a good thing. No one is really competing with Steam and it doesn't seem that anyone will, so when MS wants to try again, I'm open to it just because I don't like monopolies.

Hopefully that explains what I mean.

 

[aeolist]

What do they mean the same is true for Minecraft? Game is not on Steam.

probably that the non-windows store version is 98% or more of the game's sales

on one hand the store version of minecraft is way newer, on the other hand it doesn't support mods so it was always going to be a massive failure

 

[Zedox]

MS huge mistake was 'launching' the platform before it was ready...before these issues that any random beta tester would've been able to tell them about. My theory is that MS wanted to take advantage of the triple A exclusives that were releasing on the horizon so they rushed it out.

After the incredible good will gained from GFWL and MS' other PC gaming efforts (this is sarcasm) the LAST thing MS should've done is release an unfinished platform with basic features missing. It arrived dead on arrival due to this. Yes those issues are fixed or on the list but 90% of gamers aren't going to be tolerant and patient enough to not say "frack off MS, you had your chance"...and nobody can blame them for that. Only barely rational weirdos like myself are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. You fucked up, Microsoft. Had a chance to gain good will and blew it.


Nice ad hom to avoid the fact that one of your linked articles was about Windows Phone. Lol

I agree. 100%.

(uh oh, sorry, people may associate you as me...UH OH, maybe I shouldn't agree with you to help your online image.lolololol /s)

 

[LewieP]

But the important question remains: How much of that 2% was due to the pricing exploit?

If we're running with the estimate of 15k sales, I think it's plausible that more than 10% of them would be due to that exploit.

Iirc there was dozens of people using it on gaf alone, and it spread across a bunch of other sites too. 1,500 would be a fairly conservative estimate, and closer to 5,000 wouldn't be implausible.

Not sure how accurate a 15k estimate would be, as it's unclear whether the 98% for steam includes steam keys sold elsewhere, steamworks retail copies, GPU promo copies etc.

 

[KinofChaos]

MS huge mistake was 'launching' the platform before it was ready...before these issues that any random beta tester would've been able to tell them about. My theory is that MS wanted to take advantage of the triple A exclusives that were releasing on the horizon so they rushed it out.

After the incredible good will gained from GFWL and MS' other PC gaming efforts (this is sarcasm) the LAST thing MS should've done is release an unfinished platform with basic features missing. It arrived dead on arrival due to this. Yes those issues are fixed or on the list but 90% of gamers aren't going to be tolerant and patient enough to not say "frack off MS, you had your chance"...and nobody can blame them for that. Only barely rational weirdos like myself are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. You fucked up, Microsoft. Had a chance to gain good will and blew it.


Nice ad hom to avoid the fact that one of your linked articles was about Windows Phone. Lol

Yet you ignored the other , and it was about the store being poorly designed and infested with Phone/mobile apps, did you even attempt to read it? It's another issue with the store. There are a plethora of issues and features missing that other store fronts have had foir years.

 

[JaggedSac]

Scaling a UI is - relatively - trivial, but adding new screens and buttons and hooking those buttons into calls that do things is still work to do, and is in fact not trivial.

I mean, this is a thing easily tested by anyone with literally any access to any form of development tool - download the UDK or Unity and see how long it takes to make a typical PC game options screen

e:
I mean, this is a reason why a lot of games just have some bare bones Options and dump a lot of stuff into an .ini file - UIs are hella time consuming to make

Hooking buttons to functions/methods is in fact trivial. An exit button is especially easy, lol. Making things look pretty is another matter, lol. Menus in most cases are just surfacing configuration options devs have even in console versions. So the plumbing is already there.

UWP was never intended to remove the need to alter UIs though. Not sure where that idea came from.

 

[LordRaptor]

That's like saying Google shouldn't have worked on Android when iOS was out and it was definitely better than Android (experience wise at least). Google competed with Apple and now they are trying to one-up each other. That's a good thing. No one is really competing with Steam and it doesn't seem that anyone will, so when MS wants to try again, I'm open to it just because I don't like monopolies.

Android exists because Apple were trying to make a power play and cut Google Search (their primary service) out of IOS completely.

That hugely backfired on Apple directly (and MS indirectly), because Googles core business is derived from user data, so they can literally give Android away for free to any handset maker on the sole provision it includes Google services.

Any attempts by MS to 'lock down' Windows are also going to backfire on them just as badly, because there are a lot of vested interests who have absolutely no desire to hand the keys over to Ms as gatekeeper of a walled garden.
SteamOS was a first step precautionary measure, and you're going to see full Origin and UPlay support of SteamOS long before you see W10 exclusive Ea or Ubisoft games.

Steam is not a monopoly, it is the overwhelming popular choice.
There are many alternatives to Steam.

e:

UWP was never intended to remove the need to alter UIs though. Not sure where that idea came from.

No, but you are never going to be exposing things like "mouse sensitivy" options to Xbox One owners - there would need to be a bunch of "hide this PC specific screen" toggles based on which platform the game is running

 

[Unai]

To your first question: Yes.

No one is praising them for a poor attempt. First off, I knew how bad the store was way before other people even thought about using it (especially on this gaming focused board). I knew they weren't going to be "legit competing" against Steam coming out the gate with their AAA games especially knowing how bad the Store was. When I talk about "competition" is that it shouldn't "burn and die" (as someone said) because it has the potential to compete. Not saying that it is really competing right now. I want competition. I want them to be good so Steam even gets better (and have to release more exclusive games like Half Life 3) that gets more people on their platform. Wanting Steam to want everything is just as dumb as wanting Microsoft to have everything on the Windows Store.

I see people wanting to not do anything is because of GFWL (which is understandably so) and monopolistic views of MS. I understand that. But not having any competition is dumb. That's like saying Google shouldn't have worked on Android when iOS was out and it was definitely better than Android (experience wise at least). Google competed with Apple and now they are trying to one-up each other. That's a good thing. No one is really competing with Steam and it doesn't seem that anyone will, so when MS wants to try again, I'm open to it just because I don't like monopolies.

Hopefully that explains what I mean.

Oh, but there are plenty of competition from other stores that actually work. Some of them are even better than Steam (GoG). I'm not worried about lack of competition at all.

 

[Mithos]

But the important question remains: How much of that 2% was due to the pricing exploit?

Maybe it was also 98% ;p

 

[JaggedSac]

Android exists because Apple were trying to make a power play and cut Google Search (their primary service) out of IOS completely.

Google bought Android before the first iPhone even released.

No, but you are never going to be exposing things like "mouse sensitivy" options to Xbox One owners - there would need to be a bunch of "hide this PC specific screen" toggles based on which platform the game is running

Well...of course.

 

[Deadbeat]

I bought it for $8 on the Windows Store and I REGRET NOTHING

You are the 2%.

 

[icespide]

Android was in the works way before the iPhone was unveiled, it underwent drastic changes though

 

[BajiRav]

I doubt MS expected 600M Windows installs by now. That's almost 60M per month which doesn't match their announcement of 1B installs within 2 years.

 

[oti]

I've bought some games and Apps through one of their sales and I can't install them. Tried for several months and it never works. I'll never visit that store ever again.

I also asked if anyone wanted a Win10 copy of Quantum Break (played it on Xbox, don't need the PC version) on my Twitter and NOBODY has answered me yet and I'm at 500+ followers.

 

[Carlius]

Sucks cause ibwant to support getting xbox one games on pc and i will still buying all the games. I mupst be in the ninority but i am excited about an xbox one snd pc integration

 

[Zedox]

Android exists because Apple were trying to make a power play and cut Google Search (their primary service) out of IOS completely.

That hugely backfired on Apple directly (and MS indirectly), because Googles core business is derived from user data, so they can literally give Android away for free to any handset maker on the sole provision it includes Google services.

Any attempts by MS to 'lock down' Windows are also going to backfire on them just as badly, because there are a lot of vested interests who have absolutely no desire to hand the keys over to Ms as gatekeeper of a walled garden.
SteamOS was a first step precautionary measure, and you're going to see full Origin and UPlay support of SteamOS long before you see W10 exclusive Ea or Ubisoft games.

Steam is not a monopoly, it is the overwhelming popular choice.
There are many alternatives to Steam.

e:

No, but you are never going to be exposing things like "mouse sensitivy" options to Xbox One owners - there would need to be a bunch of "hide this PC specific screen" toggles based on which platform the game is running

True, and yes, Steam is not a monopoly and there are alternatives. But just because there are alternatives doesn't mean that you aren't a monopoly (how many different versions of Linux are there, there's still Mac OSX, but Windows still has a monopoly on the desktop).

Of those alternatives, do you think any of them are a "threat" to Steam? I don't really think so. I think MS is a "threat" to Steam not only because of their power over the desktop but because they have a big audience with the Xbox and bringing that to PC could affect Steam. To me, brings competition to Steam and Steam will try (and actually have been because they see it happening) to thwart it as they should. I just don't want any company in gaming to think that they can just do stupid stuff (which Steam has done in the past) and get away with it (just as Microsoft has been learning repeatedly...lol). If Sony was doing the same thing as MS but with the PlayStation platform...I would be totally for it.

Oh, but there are plenty of competition from other stores that actually work. Some of them are even better than Steam (GoG). I'm not worried about lack of competition at all.

I personally don't see it as a threat to Steam. Does it compete, yea, but I don't see it as a threat. That's just my personal opinion (and I love steam).

 

[Showshank]

I've bought some games and Apps through one of their sales and I can't install them. Tried for several months and it never works. I'll never visit that store ever again.

I also asked if anyone wanted a Win10 copy of Quantum Break (played it on Xbox, don't need the PC version) on my Twitter and NOBODY has answered me yet and I'm at 500+ followers.

sigh, I guess I'll take it

 

[Moonstone]

Serious question for W10 users: Do you have it linked to a MS email account?

When I installed it a couple month ago - I didn't want to tie my OS to an online account.
So I went with the offline install. Since then I never went to the store - as you would need an account. I think it must also be an outlook/hotmail account which I don't have and I actually don't want another account.

It also feels different to me to sign up at steam, origin and so on with an account than with MS. I'm also cautious with Android/Google in that regard and usually keep my phone not permanently logged in at google. Sometimes I need to connect - but with W10 I never had to do it. I can get all my software from different sites and there are a gazillion tools for mail, contacts and so on.

I do like W10 though. Has some pretty cool features. But I don't see the need to go to the store. Especially with the UWP problems. If they release a game I want and I'd only get there - I would make an account. But just for this game and the log out again.
But wouldn't help MS besides they get more sale.

 

[Htown]

Good. Let Microsoft's garbage PC gaming push burn.

Let's get this over with as quickly as possible. Hopefully we won't be stuck with its shitty remnants for half the generation like last time.

 

[LordRaptor]

Google bought Android before the first iPhone even released.

Android was in the works way before the iPhone was unveiled, it underwent drastic changes though

Eric Schmidt was on the Board of Directors at Apple prior to the iPhones release; Androids purpose for existence was to prevent the possibility of "one man, one phone, one carrier" and ceding overall market control to Apples closed system.

Like I say; it backfired on Apple (to the extent of Steve Jobs basically declaring jihad on google), and any moves by MS to similarly close a platform that multiple interests want to remain open is going to similarly backfire.

(this is very OT though)

 

[TransTrender]

Seems it uses Denuvo so there's no cracked torrents for it. So the other 2% must be from the people who used the Ukranian method.

And that is why I'm not part of neither the 98% nor the 2%, and I want the game.

Wait, what?

Not that I'm expecting Mithos to respond but what's wrong with Denuvo?
The only thing I saw people complaining about at one time was 'performance issues' but most of those complaints seemed unfounded.
Seems pretty transparent to me*shrug*

 

[AndyMoogle]

I doubt MS expected 600M Windows installs by now. That's almost 60M per month which doesn't match their announcement of 1B installs within 2 years.

They are getting it out there faster than Windows 7. Yeah, sure, it's a free upgrade and they are basically forcing it onto users now, but that can't be considered bad. They even said 1 billion within 2 to 3 years.

 

[Hari Seldon]

I can't believe MS would buy Minecraft and then release it without mod support. Lol that is so fucking stupid, might as well flush that money down the toilet.

 

[tiredheadcrab]

Eric Schmidt was on the Board of Directors at Apple prior to the iPhones release; Androids purpose for existence was to prevent the possibility of "one man, one phone, one carrier" and ceding overall market control to Apples closed system.

Like I say; it backfired on Apple (to the extent of Steve Jobs basically declaring jihad on google), and any moves by MS to similarly close a platform that multiple interests want to remain open is going to similarly backfire.

(this is very OT though)

Define backfire? As far as I know the iPhone is a huge money maker for Apple and their App Store generates more money than google play. Should we talk about piracy and the google play store?

 

[Kenzodielocke]

Well, Obliterator always told you guys that Halo 5 didn't met their epxectations and some people wouldn't believe him and talked shit.

 

[Mithos]

Serious question for W10 users: Do you have it linked to a MS email account?

Yes, or I just logged in with my already existing Xbox Live account (if that is what you are think of).

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Wait, what?

Not that I'm expecting Mithos to respond but what's wrong with Denuvo?
The only thing I saw people complaining about at one time was 'performance issues' but most of those complaints seemed unfounded.
Seems pretty transparent to me*shrug*

Nothing is wrong with Denuvo imo. It's about as good and unintrusive a DRM anyone could expect.

 

[Unai]

Wait, what?

Not that I'm expecting Mithos to respond but what's wrong with Denuvo?
The only thing I saw people complaining about at one time was 'performance issues' but most of those complaints seemed unfounded.
Seems pretty transparent to me*shrug*

I think he's just sugesting that people bought the Steam version and are in the 98% group or bought the Windos Store version and are in the 2% group, without pirates playing the game without buying.

I don't know that would matter in the case, though.

 

[KinofChaos]

MS huge mistake was 'launching' the platform before it was ready...before these issues that any random beta tester would've been able to tell them about. My theory is that MS wanted to take advantage of the triple A exclusives that were releasing on the horizon so they rushed it out.

After the incredible good will gained from GFWL and MS' other PC gaming efforts (this is sarcasm) the LAST thing MS should've done is release an unfinished platform with basic features missing. It arrived dead on arrival due to this. Yes those issues are fixed or on the list but 90% of gamers aren't going to be tolerant and patient enough to not say "frack off MS, you had your chance"...and nobody can blame them for that. Only barely rational weirdos like myself are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. You fucked up, Microsoft. Had a chance to gain good will and blew it.


Nice ad hom to avoid the fact that one of your linked articles was about Windows Phone. Lol

It's about the store.......

 

[Durante]

Serious question for W10 users: Do you have it linked to a MS email account?

No.

But then again, I've also uninstalled the Windows Store, so I'm probably not representative.

 

[Three]

Well, Obliterator always told you guys that Halo 5 didn't met their epxectations and some people wouldn't believe him and talked shit.

That's because everybody knows 900% bought it digitally.

Serious question for W10 users: Do you have it linked to a MS email account?

When I installed it a couple month ago - I didn't want to tie my OS to an online account.
So I went with the offline install. Since then I never went to the store - as you would need an account. I think it must also be an outlook/hotmail account which I don't have and I actually don't want another account.

It also feels different to me to sign up at steam, origin and so on with an account than with MS. I'm also cautious with Android/Google in that regard and usually keep my phone not permanently logged in at google. Sometimes I need to connect - but with W10 I never had to do it. I can get all my software from different sites and there are a gazillion tools for mail, contacts and so on.

I do like W10 though. Has some pretty cool features. But I don't see the need to go to the store. Especially with the UWP problems. If they release a game I want and I'd only get there - I would make an account. But just for this game and the log out again.
But wouldn't help MS besides they get more sale.

A Microsoft account can be any email. Doesn't need to be Hotmail/outlook though I believe it tries to create one for you too, not sure on that one.

 

[icespide]

Eric Schmidt was on the Board of Directors at Apple prior to the iPhones release; Androids purpose for existence was to prevent the possibility of "one man, one phone, one carrier" and ceding overall market control to Apples closed system.

Like I say; it backfired on Apple (to the extent of Steve Jobs basically declaring jihad on google), and any moves by MS to similarly close a platform that multiple interests want to remain open is going to similarly backfire.

(this is very OT though)

how did it backfire for Apple? iPhone is doing pretty okay

 

[patapuf]

True, and yes, Steam is not a monopoly and there are alternatives. But just because there are alternatives doesn't mean that you aren't a monopoly (how many different versions of Linux are there, there's still Mac OSX, but Windows still has a monopoly on the desktop).

Of those alternatives, do you think any of them are a "threat" to Steam? I don't really think so. I think MS is a "threat" to Steam not only because of their power over the desktop but because they have a big audience with the Xbox and bringing that to PC could affect Steam. To me, brings competition to Steam and Steam will try (and actually have been because they see it happening) to thwart it as they should. I just don't want any company in gaming to think that they can just do stupid stuff (which Steam has done in the past) and get away with it (just as Microsoft has been learning repeatedly...lol). If Sony was doing the same thing as MS but with the PlayStation platform...I would be totally for it.

.

Outside of Dota and CS none of the big PC games are on steam. all big MMO's are outside of Steam, all big F2P games are outside of steam, Blizzard is not on steam, Minecraft is not on steam, none of EA's games are on steam.

Whoever thinks Steam has a monopoly on PC gaming doesn't know what they are talking about.

It's the overwhelming choice for smaller games, but even there there's tons of alternatives. And i'll take Valve over MS any day of the week when it comes to supporting indies.

I can't believe MS would buy Minecraft and then release it without mod support. Lol that is so fucking stupid, might as well flush that money down the toilet.

It's so dumb. So many big publishers have properties that god huge with mods and outside of Valve and somewhat Bethestha all of them are too dumb to recognize and foster that.

 

[Htown]

Wait, what?

Not that I'm expecting Mithos to respond but what's wrong with Denuvo?
The only thing I saw people complaining about at one time was 'performance issues' but most of those complaints seemed unfounded.
Seems pretty transparent to me*shrug*

As far as DRM goes, Denuvo is pretty good. That said, there are some people who dislike all DRM.

Sometimes it's because they don't trust it to work flawlessly in the long term, sometimes they just don't like the concept of paying for the game and having that game need to check in elsewhere before it runs. I don't have a strict feeling on the subject in general (though online-only single player games can fuck right off), but I understand the people that do.

 

[gamz]

Serious question for W10 users: Do you have it linked to a MS email account?

When I installed it a couple month ago - I didn't want to tie my OS to an online account.
So I went with the offline install. Since then I never went to the store - as you would need an account. I think it must also be an outlook/hotmail account which I don't have and I actually don't want another account.

It also feels different to me to sign up at steam, origin and so on with an account than with MS. I'm also cautious with Android/Google in that regard and usually keep my phone not permanently logged in at google. Sometimes I need to connect - but with W10 I never had to do it. I can get all my software from different sites and there are a gazillion tools for mail, contacts and so on.

I do like W10 though. Has some pretty cool features. But I don't see the need to go to the store. Especially with the UWP problems. If they release a game I want and I'd only get there - I would make an account. But just for this game and the log out again.
But wouldn't help MS besides they get more sale.

Of course, and I use the store as much as possible. I think the only thing I haven't used it for is Chrome and Office 365. I'm a fan of uwp.

 

[chico]

the game is 70€ in the store. no thanks!

 

[johnnydrama]

I just feel bad for Remedy. Quantum Break would have done so much better on Steam. I'm glad they bailed out.

 

[ShdwDrake]

The store is terrible too many options missing. And this is from someone who has steam, origin, gog Galaxy, and battle.net installed.

Also I log in with a Microsoft account.

 

[JaggedSac]

Well, Obliterator always told you guys that Halo 5 didn't met their epxectations and some people wouldn't believe him and talked shit.

I remember that. At that time I said that MS would release Halo 6 day and date on PC and XBox. People said I was crazy too.

 

[LordRaptor]

Define backfire? As far as I know the iPhone is a huge money maker for Apple and their App Store generates more money than google play. Should we talk about piracy and the google play store?

how did it backfire for Apple? iPhone is doing pretty okay

Well, what would Apples marketshare be in world where the alternatives are Symbian or Windows Mobile?

 

[gamz]

Eric Schmidt was on the Board of Directors at Apple prior to the iPhones release; Androids purpose for existence was to prevent the possibility of "one man, one phone, one carrier" and ceding overall market control to Apples closed system.

Like I say; it backfired on Apple (to the extent of Steve Jobs basically declaring jihad on google), and any moves by MS to similarly close a platform that multiple interests want to remain open is going to similarly backfire.

(this is very OT though)

Android purpose was to flood the market with their OS and mine data for ads.