BoboBrazil
Member
Looks like MS is on the road to ending xbox. Sucks for the developers. Hopefully they can reform a new studio and release something great in the future without the pressure of MS on them.
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Lionhead Studios and Press Play closed. Fable legends cancelled.
- Thread starter chadskin
- Start date
I think it's more MS corporate pushing xbox to cut the chaff and get profitable or else.
LostMyNarbles
Member
Wonder when they decided on the decision to close them down. Lionhead was tweeting about the game not even a week ago and if they didn't know about the closure it seems kind of shitty to not tell them and have them continue to think the game was still releasing.
Obliterator
Member
No its entirely accurate.
Answer the question what is MGS legacy? What are they Currently doing to ensure continued exclusive support for their console? If 3rd parties stop signing contracts with them due to falling interest in the Xbox brand and falling sales where will the content come from?
If they do not have studios to provide them software where will the games come from? Why will 3rd parties continue exclusive deals on a platform that is tanking in comparison to its competition and where they could make far more money on the PS4?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Dreams-Visions
Member
But it COULD have been profitable enough. The issue is that it never was because MS has yet to understand the console market or invest fully into its lineup of games. I'll say it again: the fact that games like
MechAssault
MechWarrior
Crimson Skies
Kameo
Perfect Dark
Conker
Banjoo
have seen little to no activity as it pertains to sequels is astounding and jaw-dropping. Microsoft seems to simply forget that whole franchises exist. Another iteration or two of Kameo and you probably have Microsoft's Zelda. It was a beautiful game with an exquisite soundtrack and it was clear a few small tweaks and you have something you can grow into a long franchise. The Mech games speak for themselves. Everyone who played Crimson Skies knows how awesome that game was and how good a franchise could have been. And those Rare games really need no introduction.
But mismanagement and a failure to understand what made these studios great and how to retain that greatness is why we're talking doom and gloom here. Had they invested fully, these stories could have had very different endings. But well...here we are.
I argue that neither Sony nor Microsoft first party is all that appealing anymore. Sony hasn't been that great of a first party publisher this generation, and the PS4 has pretty much survived up to this point on third party exclusives and multiplatform releases. Microsoft first party support, although not great, has been recognized as outperforming Sony's output thus far this gen.
It's a shame about Press Play and Lionhead, but they really haven't contributed much this generation anyway. The bigger problem is, a) aside from Nintendo, where did the first party support go? and b) I think, a bigger problem is that Microsoft is itself a software company, above all things, yet they are scaling back on software in support of its games initiative.
I guess game development is a risky business, if the likes of Sony and Microsoft are willing to let third parties carry the burden of risk for their consoles.
GHG
Member
Unannounced game, "supposed to", "supposed to". It's all speculation.
People are currently playing Fable Legends and the release date was announced to be Srpring this year (I.e in a couple of months).
Like I said before, nowhere near being the same thing.
Basketball
Member
They pretty much spelled it out
"Focus on games people want to play"
Don't let the folks who loved the beta fool you.
They heard the general feedback from the game and how fans wanted a proper fable RPG. Deciding to take the series in another direction was a dumb decision. Spending all this time and money on this game that not even the core fans of this franchise want is pretty much a sinking ship.
Should have just made fable 4 and the decision to close the studio might not have happened sadly. I played the beta over the recent months and it sucks bc the game did look finished almost but deep down its not what most of us wanted. Hope everyone lands on their feet and all the work put in is not cast aside.
"Focus on games people want to play"
Don't let the folks who loved the beta fool you.
They heard the general feedback from the game and how fans wanted a proper fable RPG. Deciding to take the series in another direction was a dumb decision. Spending all this time and money on this game that not even the core fans of this franchise want is pretty much a sinking ship.
Should have just made fable 4 and the decision to close the studio might not have happened sadly. I played the beta over the recent months and it sucks bc the game did look finished almost but deep down its not what most of us wanted. Hope everyone lands on their feet and all the work put in is not cast aside.
Ol No Bones
Banned
This is hard news for a long time Xbox fan. I have been very excited with the brand lately but a move like this doesn't bode well for their internally developed titles. I hope they can staff up many of these people elsewhere but this doesn't bode well for internal studios at MS. My heart goes out to people who lost their jobs.
BlastProcessing
Member
I think the more apt analogy is that they are emergency landing a 747 into a ditch after people above their heads took their fuel and landing gear away. I think you can say they are trying to do the best they can with the hand they are being dealt.
Steverulez
Member
This isn't entirely correct
Lion head already owned Big Blue Box and integrated them in mid-2004 iirc, Microsoft purchased Lionhead in early 2006 after they hit financial troubles (after Fable and Fable TLC released) and they were in development of Fable 2
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/news_060406_LionheadMS
Ninja Scooter
Member
What is anybody's "legacy"? If you mean first party titles, then their legacy is Forza, Halo, Fable, Gears, ect.... I don't know that they are ensuring exclusive support for their console outside of their first party IPs, because I don't know what their plans for their console gaming business is. It could very well be changing completely.
And there will never be a shortage of independent developers popping up. Not sure what your second point is. For a company as big as MS (or Sony or Nintendo) it will never be hard to get a game made, whether they own the studio or not. I don't get why you are putting so much stock into that. Are Punch Out Wii or Luigi's Mansion 3DS not a part of "nintendo's legacy" just because they don't own the developer? Is the Ratchet and Clank series not a part of Sony's legacy?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Added another.
Yes it is just Microsoft being Microsoft, but you'd have to have pretty narrow vision to not see the industry changing around us. Traditional games media becoming marginalized or dieing off, fragmentation brought on by disruptive technologies and services, younger generations exposed mainly to mobile gaming, smaller number of AAA releases by a smaller pool of publishers. That's only scratching the surface, the industry has never, ever been in a period with as much disturbance as there is now.
This is how I see it. After the X1 under-performed and what exclusives MS had weren't exactly lighting the fire under the ass of the Xbone's sales for more than a month - this seems like MS are going to be focusing solely on the for-sure money makers for the foreseeable future in an effort to try and turn things around.
I really would not be shocked at all if we saw a slimmer Xbox One revealed at this E3 - if for no other reason than to cut down on manufacturing costs.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
And people still staying MS is quitting Xbox, just because of this? Come on now. The hyperbole is real here.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Phil Spencer takes a different view to "first party" than I'd wager most on here do. Killer Instinct is a first party game but it's not developed by an internal studio. It's still a first party game though. Same for Quantum Break.
I'd say it's much more cost effective for Microsoft to make their first party games this way. They have their dedicated studios for their tent poles, but will outsource for anything that basically isn't a tent pole. Should any new IPs become huge franchises, they'll simply setup a studio to put on making that franchise.
Many of you might not like that, but you can surely see how it makes business sense.
I'd say it's much more cost effective for Microsoft to make their first party games this way. They have their dedicated studios for their tent poles, but will outsource for anything that basically isn't a tent pole. Should any new IPs become huge franchises, they'll simply setup a studio to put on making that franchise.
Many of you might not like that, but you can surely see how it makes business sense.
Doug Heffernan
Member
Exactly.
Microsoft has the most third party relationships in the industry...
Iron Galaxy, Remedy, Insomniac, Platinum, Moon Studios, Armature, Reagent, Playground, etc.
If this is their strategy moving forward, I have no problem with it.
cripterion
Member
Although the game sucked and the performance was absolutely bad on a proper rig, I never expected this. Hopefully the people there rebound unto something else 
And damn, Microsoft is on a roll lately.
And damn, Microsoft is on a roll lately.
GHG
Member
This. It's a long game and they don't have a clue how to play it.
People give Sony shit for providing funding for sequels to games like Knack but they understand that you need to build on new IP's and give things a second chance in order to be successful. Not every game you make will be a hit, but if the developers have a desire to continue on and build on the franchise you should give them a chance to do so. Half the battle is already won since they are no longer creating something from scratch and it just comes down to the developers taking the critisim on the chin and learning from their mistakes. Killzone --> Killzone 2 is a prime example of this.
There is a functional difference for consumers though. Quality. Can you really say with a straight face that Halo is as good a franchise now as it was when Bungie was entirely engaged? What do we really expect from the next Gears when very few of the core people from the first trilogy are still involved? These are valid questions for any consumer expected to not just spend $60 on the game but to buy a platform specifically because of these games when everything else can be had on the PS4.
And the average gamer knows what Bungie is so don't give me that bullshit. Do they know the individuals involved? No. Do they know the second tier of development studios? Also no. But the average gamer has some idea who the premier selling developers are. They know Bungie, Rockstar, probably Naughty Dog, Blizzard, and a small handful of others.
At the core of what I'm saying is really how you build consumer confidence and loyalty within the video game segment. You need an ideologically pure vision for what an IP is supposed to be, which means retaining the creator, someone who understands the creator's vision, or someone with a new vision and enough time to make something of it. You can't just farm out development and expect to ever see that kind of IP development.
You earn trust in the video game segment. Nintendo has more accumulated trust with their fans than basically any company on the planet because they know Miyamoto is always involved, Mario games will always at their core be Mario, Zelda games will at their core be Zelda, and they can buy blind knowing that Miyamoto is the gatekeeper of quality. If it meets his standards surely it meets theirs is the usual Nintendo fan mindset. Sony is getting to that point with Naughty Dog. The perpetual churn form MS Game Studios makes that impossible for them to ever achieve, even though Bungie basically bought them that kind of good will almost overnight.
And beyond knowing you can trust the product quality within a generation, you have the fact that MS' management of MGS is a clear sign that they're only in video games for the time being. Not owning and nurturing studios and associated IPs is the games industry equivalent of moving in with your girlfriend but keeping your old apartment "because you've got everything we need so why go through the hassle of moving my stuff?" It shows that you've still got an eye on the door.
AncientDiety
Banned
Some of those are making games for ps4...third party can leave at any time.
Building studies is hard work...lets run a scenario here...would you rather microsoft took its war chest for games to smaller independent studios who bid to build games for microsoft, rather than huge slow moving studios that have little input into what they make..
Its an easy choice.
Obliterator
Member
The purpose of 1st party games are to attract consumers who do not own your platform with software they cant get on another platform. Exclusives aren't what they used to be but they are a still an important aspect of your portfolio.
Again, if you 3rd party why are you going to sign an exclusive contract with MS? The gap is GROWING every month. Not just numerically but also by percentage. The Xbone will be outsold significantly in 2016 by the PS4, by a larger margin than it has this entire generation.
So where will the games come from? If you are shuttering all your internal studios and canceling your new IPs in favor of the same old thing like what happened with Black Tusk what are you building your brand to?
Because those franchises are not helping. Halo 5 did nothing for hardware sales and Gears 4 likely won't either. They are old tired franchises
AncientDiety
Banned
Bits N Pieces
Member
It's not just the EU, what about Twisted Pixel and Team Dakota?
For Phil to say he wants a focus on first party IP just a few months ago, this is bonkers.
Unless they intend to acquire new studios to replace these closures, Playground, Remedy etc?
Yes halo is a better franchise now (isn't selling as well but competition in the shooter space is crazy now)
Lets also be honest about bungie...there are about as many original early halo employees at 343 as there are at bungie
Miles Quaritch
Member
Huh? They'd abandon contracted work to develop games on PS4 instead?
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
But that doesn't mean the game won't get made.
Double Helix got bought out, Iron Galaxy took over. There's no shortage of studios WANTING work in the industry that would jump at the opportunity to create a first party game for Microsoft.
Sure, which is why they were a satellite (maybe they stopped using that term by then). My point was that the talent acquisition was complete with the purchase (no major staffer lost due to the purchase) and that all the talent bleed to hit Lionhead has since occured entirely under MS' management.
As opposed to Rare where talent had already been leaving and the acquisition was basically the final breaking of the dam.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Wow, definitely never expected to hear news like this.
Wonder what the hell happened.
Wonder what the hell happened.
Microsoft just needs to exit the console market. Also,just sell these Rare ips back to Nintendo please....actually sell the full studio too...they can keep KI.
AncientDiety
Banned
??? That's not what I said, at al. Insomniac are making ratchet and so is one of the other studios making a game for ps4.
snoopeasystreet
Member
In fairness, he said "first party IP" and not "first party studios". Maybe they just see licencing the B tier IP to third party studios as their future.
Obliterator
Member
You recall incorrectly then as they were 3+ million sellers
I agree that Microsoft has never put full support into acquiring or retaining first party games. They invested in 3 or 4 franchises and then recycle those again and again. However that was never an issue during the 360 days because they at least were the better console when it came to third party support. Look at Mass Effect, Elder Scrolls or Fallout for examples. But with the PS4 being the go to console for third party experiences, and Microsoft having pitiful first party titles to show, it begs the question "What does the Xbox offer?".
The problem with the games you mentioned is that they're niche titles at best, with Conker and Banjoo standing out among the rest by just a little. But with those titles being 3d platformers that have an art style that some may see as "kid friendly" will it really sell to the masses?
Look how hard it was for the Ratchet and Clank series to take off on PS3. Great games but they became smaller and smaller as the years went on because the audience wasn't there to support it. Look at the new Sly Cooper for PS3. That thing dropped so quickly in price, again because the audience doesn't seem to support it.
The truth is, Fable Legends looked bad. Which means it probably would have sold poorly. At some point you have to cut your loses. Who knows how that game played and how much work was still needed to make it something that would make back it's initial investment.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
What is this about?
1. Number of staffers is less important than the number of influential creative staff left in-tact. I'm pretty sure 343 hiring Bungie's janitorial staff isn't going to make the next Halo any better.
2. I would disagree quite strongly that Halo is a better franchise. It now feels like a "me too" franchise with progressively more and more vanilla gun play. Say what you will about Destiny but when I play it I know I'm playing a shooter with gun play designed by Bungie.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
You're turning something that isn't console wars into console wars.
Sign an exclusive contract? You think Iron Galaxy and Remedy right now aren't allowed to make something else while working on Killer Instinct and Quantum Break?
Come on dude, don't be so naive.
microsoft is a big enough company that they shouldn't have to choose. sony manages to have relationships with third parties without sacrificing all of their in-house development in the process and they make a lot less money than MS.
Very unfortunate for the employees. I am not surprised, however. Their last three games were met with mixed praise, especially Fable Heroes and Fable: The Journey. Perhaps they will transfer what is done on Fable Legends and have another one of their studios work on or rebrand it.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
That can be an interesting strategy for Microsoft. Spending money on third-party exclusivity has to be cheaper than owning studios. It can be a dick move when it comes to games like Tomb Raider but it still gives MS exclusives they need.
