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[spwolf]

I think Wii WE can sell at least 50k first week. The rest will heavily depend on whether the players really appreciate the new control scheme.

it could sell a lot more, if it gets reviewed well...

 

[farnham]

before you can say that you should show me a 3rd party game that looks better as the best looking 3rd party game on the Ps2^^

http://videogamecentral.com/screenshots/wii/ndw000374/super_smash_bros_brawl_wii_07.jpg

Developed by GameArts and Sora

http://www.gadgetophile.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/endlessocean071107.jpg

Developed by Arika

http://www.wiikanal.de/wp-content/uploads/reviews/et2.jpg

Developed by Monster Games

http://nintenblog.free.fr/images/2006/wii/no_more_heroes_travis_touchdown_vs_shinobu_20061201.jpg


Developed by Grasshopper

http://pics.gameware.at/resident-evil-4-wii-edition-3.jpg
http://videogames.techfresh.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/umbrella_6.jpg
Developed by Capcom

http://ruliweb4.empas.com:8080/ruliboard/gup/img_link6/234/233111_10.jpg

Developed by Namco

 

[farnham]

What they did on PS2
http://canalgame.com/data/docs/20050411120301/giii10_04_NOT11.jpg

http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2006/282/reviews/929343_20061010_screen003.jpg

http://image.jeuxvideo.com/images/p2/s/f/sfx3p2006.jpg

http://www.armchairempire.com/image...2/nascar-heat-2002/nascar-heat-2002-ps2-2.jpg
http://cubemedia.gamespy.com/cube/image/article/632/632084/killer-7-20050707025813682.jpg
http://www.futuregamez.net/ps2games/re4/re42.jpg
http://www.gameswelike.com/web/images/RE/comp/RE4 comp 02.jpg

 

[Threi]

You forgot Dewey.

 

[Stumpokapow]

You forgot Dewey.

So did consumers.

 

[Threi]

So did consumers.

Rightfully so.

But it looked good.

 

[Zombie James]

Awesome, you included a launch title.

 

[birdchili]

Awesome, you included a launch title.

excite truck also.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

The PS2 is still the chief market for these games. This manifests itself in multiple ways, the Wii version is a lazy port to make more money, the PS2 version is the one that leads in marketing and as such sells like gangbusters while the Wii version is an afterthought, and other like minded issues. WE has the cards stacked against it in a multitude of ways in this regard; it's late in the season, fans of the series have already picked up the PS2/PS3 versions, and while I can't speak for the advertising I would wager that WE Wii didn't get the same push that both those versions did.

I'ma believer that there is a market for more hardcore oriented games on the Wii, but they have to be treated as an equal rather than an also ran.

 

[Zombie James]

excite truck also.

The argument was, "show me a 3rd party game that looks better as the best looking 3rd party game on the Ps2." Street Fighter EX and Nascar Heat 2002 aren't even close.

 

[MechaX]

What they did on PS2

Huh. I'm pretty sure that this pic does Grandia III a pretty grave injustice.

Storyline be damned, but a graphical slouch, it was not.

 

[Stumpokapow]

The argument was, "show me a 3rd party game that looks better as the best looking 3rd party game on the Ps2." Street Fighter EX and Nascar Heat 2002 aren't even close.

And the reply was, instead of comparing random 3rd party games to the best 3rd party games, comparing output from several major 3rd party developers across the platforms was a better way to do it... and there you have it.

If the question is "are developers using the Wii's potential?" the answer is pretty largely no. If the question is "Is the Wii more powerful than the PS2?", the answer is so trivially yes that it's trolling to even ask. The Wii is more powerful than the Cube. The Cube was more powerful than the PS2.

Whether developers fully realize this hierarchy is a different question; as an example I'd argue that the best XBX game looked better than the best Cube game looked better than the best PS2 game, but in terms of averages all three looked around the same.

 

[farnham]

The argument was, "show me a 3rd party game that looks better as the best looking 3rd party game on the Ps2." Street Fighter EX and Nascar Heat 2002 aren't even close.

yeah but they are developed by arika and monster games

you have to compare games by the same devs or are you saying you would develop a nibris game to a square enix game or a nipponichi game to a epic game ..? :lol :lol :lol

Huh. I'm pretty sure that this pic does Grandia III a pretty grave injustice.

Storyline be damned, but a graphical slouch, it was not.

thus its safe to say grandia III looks worse then ssbb since SSBB is the best looking Wii game by far

 

[apujanata]

And games like DQ or MH would never leave Playstation either...

Don't forget DMC (4).

 

[Darji]

yeah but they are developed by arika and monster games

you have to compare games by the same devs or are you saying you would develop a nibris game to a square enix game or a nipponichi game to a epic game ..? :lol :lol :lol





thus its safe to say grandia III looks worse then ssbb since SSBB is the best looking Wii game by far

If you want to go this way: Konami and SE have also Wii games or?^^
Oh and I didnt know that games like Brawl are 3rd party^^

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

God Darji just shut up already. This isn't the thread for this kind of shit anyway.

 

[Zombie James]

yeah but they are developed by arika and monster games

you have to compare games by the same devs or are you saying you would develop a nibris game to a square enix game or a nipponichi game to a epic game ..? :lol :lol :lol

Arika developed other PS2 games besides a launch title (look up the Everblue series) and so did Monster Games (Test Drive: Eve of Destruction, among others).

 

[farnham]

If you want to go this way: Konami and SE have also Wii games or?^^
Oh and I didnt know that games like Brawl are 3rd party^^

well if Nintendo buys Sora and Game Arts I would be all for it but well thats their decision

Konami

http://www.siliconera.com/news/0702/dewey1.jpg
http://www.siliconera.com/news/0702/dewey2.jpg
http://www.siliconera.com/news/0702/dewey3.jpg
http://www.siliconera.com/news/0702/dewey4.jpg
http://www.siliconera.com/news/0702/dewey5.jpg
http://www.siliconera.com/news/0702/dewey6.jpg

http://www.n-europe.com/games/winelwii/1.jpg
http://wiimedia.ign.com/wii/image/a...olution-soccer-2008-20071011112221244-000.jpg


Square Enix

http://www.wiiarefree.com/images/fi...g-king-and-the-promised-land-screenshot-1.jpg

http://wiimedia.ign.com/wii/image/a...onicles-crystal-bearers-20070525083530131.jpg
http://nintenblog.free.fr/images/20...d_queen_and_the_tower_of_mirrors_20061212.jpg



Looks pretty cool to me

 

[farnham]

Arika developed other PS2 games besides a launch title (look up the Everblue series) and so did Monster Games (Test Drive: Eve of Destruction, among others).

yeah too bad endless ocean and excite truck still look better

 

[schuelma]

God Darji just shut up already. This isn't the thread for this kind of shit anyway.

Seconded. Get this crap out of here. This isn't a screenshot thread.

 

[donny2112]

I wonder what does Konami have to make for Wii to get respectable numbers if like you guys say WE Wii is going to put up such numbers. See PSP one, usual basic WE known for years, coming the last (after DS, PS2, 360, PS3 versions), coming after Christmas, being a yearly upgrade...moved 70k first week.

And its not like I disagree with the numbers you think it'll move, but its about time for the humongous Wii userbase to show itself.

I might end up being wrong, but I'm hoping for >100K for the Wii version first week or maybe after two weeks. They really integrated the controls into the game (i.e. they're not slapped on), and there are already reports of it getting good advertising. I've said before that since it is following Brawl's release, I think it'll be a good test to see if core gamers are becoming more active on the system now.

before you can say that you should show me a 3rd party game that looks better as the best looking 3rd party game on the Ps2^^

"The blinders! They're on my eyes! Ahhhhh!"

 

[farnham]

Seconded. Get this crap out of here. This isn't a screenshot thread.

sorry bout that

i changed the screenshots into links

 

[Rolf NB]

And the reply was, instead of comparing random 3rd party games to the best 3rd party games, comparing output from several major 3rd party developers across the platforms was a better way to do it... and there you have it.

If the question is "are developers using the Wii's potential?" the answer is pretty largely no. If the question is "Is the Wii more powerful than the PS2?", the answer is so trivially yes that it's trolling to even ask. The Wii is more powerful than the Cube. The Cube was more powerful than the PS2.

Whether developers fully realize this hierarchy is a different question; as an example I'd argue that the best XBX game looked better than the best Cube game looked better than the best PS2 game, but in terms of averages all three looked around the same.

Not to diminish the righteousness of your greater argument, but that depends on what you're focusing attention on. The VUs gave the PS2 a lot of headroom for complex vertex work, dynamic tesselation and animation. E.g. I'd rate the FF X character animation (and the models themselves) already above anything that came out for the Gamecube, and FF XII only improved things further, with all that translucent hair fluttering in the wind and such.
(edit: strong character animation is also seen in the Jak&Daxter and Ratchet&Clank series)

Not saying the PS2 is a clear-cut winner in the hardware specs war, but it did have its unique strengths, not just weaknesses.

 

[farnham]

I might end up being wrong, but I'm hoping for >100K for the Wii version first week or maybe after two weeks. They really integrated the controls into the game (i.e. they're not slapped on), and there are already reports of it getting good advertising. I've said before that since it is following Brawl's release, I think it'll be a good test to see if core gamers are becoming more active on the system now.



"The blinders! They're on my eyes! Ahhhhh!"

Miyamoto recommended the game.. its probably going to fail like Electric Plankton (which he recommended too.. everything miyamoto touches -> flop )

Not to diminish the righteousness of your greater argument, but that depends on what you're focusing attention on. The VUs gave the PS2 a lot of headroom for complex vertex work, dynamic tesselation and animation. E.g. I'd rate the FF X character animation (and the models themselves) already above anything that came out for the Gamecube, and FF XII only improved things further, with all that translucent hair fluttering in the wind and such.

Not saying the PS2 is a clear-cut winner in the hardware specs war, but it did have its unique strengths, not just weaknesses.

yeah but the Wii is two gamecubes ducttaped together.. which means the Wii is more powerful then PS2 even if the GC was weaker then PS2

 

[AtreyU]

Before e3 2006, most third parties were playing a wait and see approach regarding the wii since they didn't know too much about it's success thinking it was another gamecube.

Come november 2006, the amount of third party games being developed for wii that had a sizable budget for a quality title were still few and far between. It wasn't until mid last year when third parties really started to jump in and start developing for wii.

The good games are coming at the end of this year. the crap games we are seeing now all started their development cycle mid last year and some got released withing 8 months. What can you expect for that kind of development time?

Blame the fact that third parties were still (and some are even to this day) thinking that wii was a fad short lived.

You have brawl, kart, and fit in the first 6 months for the US which will guarantee sell outs of hardware until august. then you have the september and october lull where nintendo will try to stock up for the november december rush and its looking like 2007 all over again. there are three system sellers on wii (wii sports included) and if third party developers were able to wake up and smell the roses after e3 last year then we will definitely see some quality titles by christmas this year because the userbase just cannot be ignored. If not then you wont see quality titles until middle of 2008.

There is a ton of shovelware for wii but what would you do with a large but new userbase eager to buy now and you have nothing to show of in quality until 18 months from now because you bet on the wrong horse?

 

[farnham]

Before e3 2006, most third parties were playing a wait and see approach regarding the wii since they didn't know too much about it's success thinking it was another gamecube.

Come november 2006, the amount of third party games being developed for wii that had a sizable budget for a quality title were still few and far between. It wasn't until mid last year when third parties really started to jump in and start developing for wii.

The good games are coming at the end of this year. the crap games we are seeing now all started their development cycle mid last year and some got released withing 8 months. What can you expect for that kind of development time?

Blame the fact that third parties were still (and some are even to this day) thinking that wii was a fad short lived.

You have brawl, kart, and fit in the first 6 months for the US which will guarantee sell outs of hardware until august. then you have the september and october lull where nintendo will try to stock up for the november december rush and its looking like 2007 all over again. there are three system sellers on wii (wii sports included) and if third party developers were able to wake up and smell the roses after e3 last year then we will definitely see some quality titles by christmas this year because the userbase just cannot be ignored. If not then you wont see quality titles until middle of 2008.

There is a ton of shovelware for wii but what would you do with a large but new userbase eager to buy now and you have nothing to show of in quality until 18 months from now because you bet on the wrong horse?

wont happen

makes too much sense...

more like third parties will stick on their its the era of the HD approach until this gen ends and after it ends Nintendo will own 70% of the japanese game market software and hardware

 

[vanguardian1]

wont happen

makes too much sense...

more like third parties will stick on their its the era of the HD approach until this gen ends and after it ends Nintendo will own 70% of the japanese game market software and hardware

As sad as it would be, I'm actually beginning to think this is a likely outcome.

 

[Eteric Rice]

As sad as it would be, I'm actually beginning to think this is a likely outcome.

Fortunately, publishers will get the idea eventually.

At least, I think Capcom, and Square-Enix will. Hoping that Konami gets with the program, but I might be hoping for to much.

 

[norinrad21]

As sad as it would be, I'm actually beginning to think this is a likely outcome.

I'm hoping for such an outcome and i hope 70% of the 3rd parties will close their doors for being ignorant.

First it was the GC is for kids and now the wii is casual. Their ignorance is going to be the end of them. Especially in Japan.

Too bad WE on the Wii is what might actually end up saving Konami because its going to totally outsell their 50mil budget MGS4

 

[schuelma]

First it was the GC is for kids and now the wii is casual. Their ignorance is going to be the end of them. Especially in Japan.

Re: Japan. I think those publishers have a point, to be honest with you.

 

[AtreyU]

Funny thing is because third party developers wanted to rush software out for the ever increasing wii userbase there is over 220 games released now in the US (not counting VC) which is damn close to xbox360's library. pretty good feat considering no one wanted to make games for wii before e3 2006

 

[farnham]

Re: Japan. I think those publishers have a point, to be honest with you.

uh sure they have.. the thing is... publishers should make money not follow the taste of some small fraction of gamers posting on message boards

 

[Cosmonaut X]

I'm hoping for such an outcome and i hope 70% of the 3rd parties will close their doors for being ignorant.

Well, you're a fool then. No-one should be hoping that more companies go bust or are absorbed - all it means for gamers is less choice and less innovation.

 

[Phife Dawg]

...Too bad WE on the Wii is what might actually end up saving Konami because its going to totally outsell their 50mil budget MGS4

Are you serious? :lol

 

[norinrad21]

Well, you're a fool then. No-one should be hoping that more companies go bust or are absorbed - all it means for gamers is less choice and less innovation.

shitty 3rd parties go out of business all the time, this won't be the first time. It doesn't matter which console they are creating games for

 

[Rancid Mildew]

Darji and leech are really insecure individuals.

 

[farnham]

Well, you're a fool then. No-one should be hoping that more companies go bust or are absorbed - all it means for gamers is less choice and less innovation.

well lets put it this way..

either they make good business decisions and go on or they bite the dust.. its not a matter of hope..

look at sega.. they were great until they gave up the console business.. now they are a train wreck and sad to even look at...

do i want this... no

do i have the will or intention to pay them so much money to revive them.. no
do i even have that kind of money.. no

 

[ethelred]

Darji and leech are really insecure individuals.

Of course, so is farnham, the genius who felt it necessary to post 20 pictures in the Media Create thread.

 

[Rancid Mildew]

Why are we challenging the business tactics of third parties? Some of these companies have had tremendous quarters since the beginning of Nintendo's reign and this week's sales thread alone documents several high and low profile PS3 titles that outpaced or kept up with the sales of prior titles on the PS2. On the Wii, I can recall only three titles that have sold excellently in Japan and far too many disasters. The userbase is huge but this obviously isn't a clear cut situation where a publisher ought to put everything on Nintendo platforms.

 

[jarrod]

Fortunately, publishers will get the idea eventually.

At least, I think Capcom, and Square-Enix will. Hoping that Konami gets with the program, but I might be hoping for to much.

I think Capcom, SEGA, Namco Bandai and Square Enix are all well positioned to capitalise on Wii. Like with DS, Konami seems the odd one out for some reason... guess they want to go down with PlayStation. :lol

 

[norinrad21]

Why are we challenging the business tactics of third parties? Some of these companies have had tremendous quarters since the beginning of Nintendo's reign and this week's sales thread alone documents several high and low profile PS3 titles that outpaced or kept up with the sales of prior titles on the PS2. On the Wii, I can recall only three titles that have sold excellently in Japan and far too many disasters. The userbase is huge but this obviously isn't a clear cut situation where a publisher ought to put everything on Nintendo platforms.

Keyword is "Effort" 3rd parties are not putting any effort in their wii games, so they shouldn't expect high sales. The wii fan base is more knowledgeable than people give them credit for

 

[Rancid Mildew]

Of course, so is farnham, the genius who felt it necessary to post 20 pictures in the Media Create thread.

You got me there. I'd love to play favorites and weigh in myself since I have an opinion on the matter but then there's that...

Keyword is "Effort" 3rd parties are not putting any effort in their wii games, so they shouldn't expect high sales. The wii fan base is more knowledgeable than people give them credit for

There have been a few Wii third party titles that took considerable effort to create. Quite a few of those have bombed. It also isn't a good sales quality if the Wii can only sell AAA third party titles.

But my question is if the Wii fan base is even needed anymore?

 

[norinrad21]

You got me there. I'd love to play favorites since I have an opinion on the matter but then there's that...



There have been a few Wii third party titles that took considerable effort to create. Quite a few of those have bombed. It also isn't a good sales quality if the Wii can only sell AAA third party titles.

But my question is if the Wii fan base is even needed anymore?

you mean games like Dewey and opoona?

3rd parties can continue to ignore the wii fan base and thats their loss, guess they don't want money and are just porting shitty ps2 games to the wii as a gesture of goodwill.

 

[farnham]

Of course, so is farnham, the genius who felt it necessary to post 20 pictures in the Media Create thread.

1. i apologized
2. i turned the images into links

Why are we challenging the business tactics of third parties? Some of these companies have had tremendous quarters since the beginning of Nintendo's reign and this week's sales thread alone documents several high and low profile PS3 titles that outpaced or kept up with the sales of prior titles on the PS2. On the Wii, I can recall only three titles that have sold excellently in Japan and far too many disasters. The userbase is huge but this obviously isn't a clear cut situation where a publisher ought to put everything on Nintendo platforms.

Third parties can do whatever they want.. but claiming the Wii will fail due to lacking third party support is pretty much a dated argument considering 70 % of the software sales in Japan now belong to Nintendo

 

[ethelred]

you mean games like Dewey and opoona and NiGHTS and Treasure Island Z and Wii Love Golf and Endless Ocean and No More Heroes?

3rd parties can continue to ignore the wii fan base and thats their loss, guess they don't want money and are just porting shitty ps2 games to the wii as a gesture of goodwill.

A gesture of goodwill rabid Nintendo fanboys spit at. So they'll go on and give you nothing, and they'll still keep making games for other systems, they'll make profit, and they'll be fine without you. And people like you will get nothing. Which is exactly as it should be.

 

[Jammy]

You got me there. I'd love to play favorites and weigh in myself since I have an opinion on the matter but then there's that...



There have been a few Wii third party titles that took considerable effort to create. Quite a few of those have bombed. It also isn't a good sales quality if the Wii can only sell AAA third party titles.

But my question is if the Wii fan base is even needed anymore?

What "quite a few" third party Wii efforts have bombed? And please don't name any Sega game (except maybe NiGHTS 2, but their success on the system has FAR outweighed their single failure on Wii and multiple failures on the "next-gen" systems.

You don't think the Wii fanbase would be needed? There's "next-gen" titles with huge budgets selling poorly left and right. Companies have come out and said they need to sell near 750,000 worldwide just to make a profit. I've seen far more cases of VF5, Ninja Gaiden Sigma, etc.'s kind in which not only games sell mediocrely, but the R&D would have cost way more than a typical Wii game. That's the difference between a Wii game performing poorly and a 360/PS3 one.

 

[kswiston]

I think Capcom, SEGA, Namco Bandai and Square Enix are all well positione to capitalise on Wii. Like with DS, Konami seems the odd one out for some reason... guess they want to go down with PlayStation. :lol

Last I checked, Konami has released more exclusive titles (and more titles period) on the Wii and DS than they have on the PS3 and PSP.

 

[farnham]

A gesture of goodwill rabid Nintendo fanboys spit at. So they'll go on and give you nothing, and they'll still keep making games for other systems, they'll make profit, and they'll be fine without you. And people like you will get nothing. Which is exactly as it should be.

:lol :lol :lol

So making you buy half baked crap for 50 bucks is a good will now..? oh man we have to bow down and thank Konami and Koei for their generosity

 

[Jammy]

:lol I'm pretty damn sure Zack and Wiki would have sold poorly no matter what system it was on. Same thing with Endless Ocean... but Nintendo's taking care of that.

At least you clowns didn't name No More Heroes, considering it's Suda's most popular game yet.

 

[schuelma]

What "quite a few" third party Wii efforts have bombed? And please don't name any Sega game (except maybe NiGHTS 2, but their success on the system has FAR outweighed their single failure on Wii and multiple failures on the "next-gen" systems.

.

NiGHTS

Zack and Wiki

We Love Golf

Opoona

Dewey

Chocobo maybe wasn't a complete bomb, but was certainly disappointing