Dragona Akehi
Retired
Mmmm. Good bannin's in this thread.
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Media Create Sales 1/28 - 2/3
- Thread starter Cheesemeister
- Start date
norinrad21
Banned
ethelred said:
Thats fine i only buy Nintendo games and the occasional 3rd party game from Capcom. If i want to play 3rd party games i will get a PS3, which is what i plan to do when ICO comes out. Again their loss as the potential of creating games for the wii is huge and theres lots of cash to be made.
Cmon now. This just reeks of bias.Rancid Mildew said:
"There have been a few Wii third party titles that took considerable effort to create."Well, tell us wich ones.
" Quite a few of those have bombed."-Now of the few, wich you did not name of course, quite of few of them bombed?
This whole post is absurd.
"
But my question is if the Wii fan base is even needed anymore?"- I dont even know what to say here. I mean, are you serious?
Good grief.
I had this theory long ago that games that focus on single player campaigns struggle a lot to be commercial successes on the Wii, in Japan particularly.
To prove that theory, we have Mario Galaxy and Zelda. Given their pedigree and level of production, they struggled like hell to reach decent sales. Not one of them has reached million seller status. That in itself is evidence that the majority of the wii userbase not just "would like" but DEMAND local multiplayer, preferably co-op in their games. It has often been said that the wii userbase sucks because they want mini-games and casual games but I think It doesn't have to be a mini-game collection to be a success. Multiplayer fun can be presented in different forms, like a zombie on-rails shooter like RE:UC.
sorry for "the listz" but I think it is pertinent to list the 2 groups of games (not all-inclusve and from the top of my head).
Relevant games that focus on Single Player:
.- Mario Galaxy
.- Zelda: TP
.- Fire Emblem
.- Nights:jod
.- Zack and Wiki
.- No More Heroes
.- Super Paper Mario
.- Biohazard: Wii edition
.- Dragon Quest Swords
.- Elebits
Relevant games that focus on or have a solid Multiplayer component:
.- Wii sports
.- Wii play
.- Mario Party 8
.- Mario & Sonic
.- RE:UC
.- Ghost Squad
.- Wario Ware
.- Wii love golf.
I don't know about you but I see a pattern here. I am not saying single-player games can't find success on Wii or that all multiplayer games are guaranteed successes. It is just a trend I think exists in Japan. The very fact that Wii play sells like mad is proof that people expect to play multiplayer games more often than not.
about WE:Wii edition
Man, I don't know. This game SHOULD belong in the winning group ( MP games ) and unlike we love golf, there hasn't been a defining soccer game game for Wii until now. Besides, Japanese love their soccer. There is no particular reason why this game shouldn´t do well. The only reason I can think of is that everyone who wanted the game got an earlier version and is not willing to pay again for the same game, no matter what enhancements the remake might have.
If the game is to fulfill its objective, I think it should have 20k-30k first day sales and around 50k for the week, then show decent legs and reach... 150k-250k in its lifetime. After that, wait till next year, advertise propoerly WE:2009 and continue building the WE userbase on wii.
To prove that theory, we have Mario Galaxy and Zelda. Given their pedigree and level of production, they struggled like hell to reach decent sales. Not one of them has reached million seller status. That in itself is evidence that the majority of the wii userbase not just "would like" but DEMAND local multiplayer, preferably co-op in their games. It has often been said that the wii userbase sucks because they want mini-games and casual games but I think It doesn't have to be a mini-game collection to be a success. Multiplayer fun can be presented in different forms, like a zombie on-rails shooter like RE:UC.
sorry for "the listz" but I think it is pertinent to list the 2 groups of games (not all-inclusve and from the top of my head).
Relevant games that focus on Single Player:
.- Mario Galaxy
.- Zelda: TP
.- Fire Emblem
.- Nights:jod
.- Zack and Wiki
.- No More Heroes
.- Super Paper Mario
.- Biohazard: Wii edition
.- Dragon Quest Swords
.- Elebits
Relevant games that focus on or have a solid Multiplayer component:
.- Wii sports
.- Wii play
.- Mario Party 8
.- Mario & Sonic
.- RE:UC
.- Ghost Squad
.- Wario Ware
.- Wii love golf.
I don't know about you but I see a pattern here. I am not saying single-player games can't find success on Wii or that all multiplayer games are guaranteed successes. It is just a trend I think exists in Japan. The very fact that Wii play sells like mad is proof that people expect to play multiplayer games more often than not.
about WE:Wii edition
Man, I don't know. This game SHOULD belong in the winning group ( MP games ) and unlike we love golf, there hasn't been a defining soccer game game for Wii until now. Besides, Japanese love their soccer. There is no particular reason why this game shouldn´t do well. The only reason I can think of is that everyone who wanted the game got an earlier version and is not willing to pay again for the same game, no matter what enhancements the remake might have.
If the game is to fulfill its objective, I think it should have 20k-30k first day sales and around 50k for the week, then show decent legs and reach... 150k-250k in its lifetime. After that, wait till next year, advertise propoerly WE:2009 and continue building the WE userbase on wii.
Rancid Mildew
Banned
moku said:
They've been listed at the end of the last page already.
Once again, listed on the prior page and many many sales threads before this one.
The fact is the Japanese third parties that have decided to play Russian roulette with the Wii have, at best come out neutral.
Rancid Mildew said:
True, though I bet that overall Sega and Capcom are pretty pleased with its Wii software numbers so far. No third party is going to see every single game sell well on a particular platform, but I think generally they have done well. Out of the major third parties, I expect those two to increase its support the most.
norinrad21
Banned
Rancid Mildew said:
Russian Roulette? Not when they've been releasing games like Opoona and Dewey. Those games would have sold poorly on the so called next gen systems as well. Theres really no excuse for these games. If anything they have themselves to blame for hoping the wii would go away and has become their worst nightmare
norinrad21
Banned
ethelred said:
Quit trolling, all those games you mentioned are great and fun. Very enjoyable for all.
norinrad21 said:
norinrad21 said:
I'm curious why you want to see third parties punished for not releasing more game for the Wii if you yourself have basically said that you wouldn't buy them anyway. If the majority of the Wii userbase was like you (I don't think they are for the record), than third parties would be right to avoid the Wii. Why bother if the console's users just want Nintendo games and the odd Capcom title?
Rancid Mildew
Banned
schuelma said:
Well, Sega's most noticeable successes are titles with Nintendo's star mascot and Ghost Squad and Capcom's success is based on a last gen port and an on the rails shooter that looks worse than said last gen port. Their original efforts (NiGHTS, Zack and Wiki, and We Love Golf) have all failed. I'm not sure I'd like their support to increase based on their Wii portfolio so far.
norinrad21 said:
I too believe those games were strategic errors but the other titles should have and could have done better. Much better.
Rancid Mildew said:
Well, Sonic has sold very well on the Wii- much better than the 360/PS3 versions.
And with Capcom, the fact that such relatively low budget games have sold well should make them seriously think about a high profile game in that series/genre. Now, game companies rarely make sense so we'll see.
Zombie James
Banned
Dragona Akehi said:
How did this turn into a screenshot battle thread anyways? It's ridiculous, sometimes you look at a thread title expecting a certain type of conversation but once you get in there it's something completely different. A lot can happening in 17 pages, I guess.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Rancid Mildew said:
That's an incomplete picture of the situation.
SEGA's Wii output:
- Ghost Squad: Adequate Japan, success worldwide
- Sonic: Failure--like every Sonic--Japan, success worldwide (also, notably, a much bigger success than SEGA's main internal competition)
- Nights: Failure Japan, success worldwide
- Super Monkey Ball: BB: Adequate Japan, success worldwide
- Mario and Sonic at the Olympics: Not SEGA Japan, success worldwide.
- Bleach: Success Japan, ? worldwide
Capcom's Wii output:
- RE: UC: Success Japan, success worldwide
- RE4Wii: Success Japan, success worldwide
- Zack & Wiki: Failure Japan, ??? worldwide--anecdotal bad: low confirmed numbers in the US; anecdotal good: sequel rumblings, good buzz from Europe.
- We Love Golf: Failure Japan, not yet released worldwide
So, basically, I disagree with you here on two issues; first, SEGA has had success on the Wii with other titles; SMBBB almost certainly did as well as expected, Bleach was a success.
Second, though, and most importantly--Capcom seems to be doing the same sort of business it does in Japan as it does on other platforms... which is to say that Japan is a loss leader, and the rest of the world makes up the difference.
Also worth noting is if you were SEGA or Capcom and you were forced to determine where your output is going based solely on Japan, here's what you'd have to work with:
Sega PS3: VF5 adequate, Imabikisou success, Sonic failure, VT3 failure, Sega Golf failure.
Sega 360: VF5 failure, Chromehounds failure, Sonic failure, Condemned failure.
Capcom PS3: no titles released.
Capcom 360: Dead Rising success, Lost Planet adequate
So despite the Wii's mixed record, I don't think that SEGA and Capcom are great examples of 3rd party failures; Wii Love Golf is a notable exception, which is a massive disappointment for Capcom, Camelot, and the Wii in general.
As to whether or not their games are of a sufficient quality to merit success, I'm personally very happy with everything both companies have put out. SMB: BB was a bit of a dud, but ultimately I think that's more of a general launch affliction that impacted almost everything. For Capcom, you can bitch all you want about RE:UC and RE4, but they're pretty well regarded as solid--RE4 was an amazing update to an already amazing product, sold at a budget price. Not to say I only want Capcom to do this stuff, but it's not the end of the world if they do a few more Wiimakes.
Rancid Mildew
Banned
Stumpokapow said:
Yep. I definitely overlooked those two titles.
I'm not sure how this point disagrees with that part of my post. I was merely saying that Capcom's original Wii efforts have failed so far in Japan. Capcom's business strategy doesn't seem too relevant to the discussion.
You're missing Devil May Cry 4. *edit: I'm not sure how I should respond to this. I'm examining the Wii's ability to sell third party titles as a machine that is selling faster than the PS2.
I think you're misreading my point. I'm not saying these titles didn't deserve their successes and I do own both of them. I'm saying that I wouldn't be pleased if Sega and Capcom expanded their offerings based on these titles alone. However, I'm not trying to impose my preferences.
*edit: I'll be away for the rest of today but I'll be sure to return to this and address the comprehensive response which I'm sure you have.
Stumpokapow said:
That's an excellent demonstration of why you can't just focus on one sales region when commenting on business practices. Sales between markets are nowhere near uniform.
Take RE4. Based on what I've found on Josh's site, it fell off the charts at 90k and is probably somewhere around 100k currently in Japan. For a remake I'd say that's a modest success. However, worldwide numbers are near 1M which is definitely a huge success.
Same with Consoles. In Japan DS is already the most successful console of all time, and will be by a large margin by the end of its lifetime. However, worldwide it's currently in fifth place LTD, and will finish somewhere in the top 3 (with a top 2 finish likely, depending on how you count Gameboy/GBC totals). On the other hand, we always hear about how much the N64 dropped relative to the SNES, when really, most of the drop was in Japan. N64 sales were pretty flat from SNES sales in North America (Nintendo reported both at around 20M).
MisterHero
Super Member
blame fanboys lolThrei said:
ComputerNerd
Banned
Rancid Mildew said:
Maybe only one of those games listed had even a moderate budget. I'm sorry, but you're wrong.
schuelma said:
NiGHTS- I bought it. Low budget, rushed
Zack and Wiki- I bought it. Low budget obviously
WLG- didnt buy it. probably low budget
Opoona- might buy in the future if I ever grow to like Rpgs. obviously low budget
Dewey- bought it. medium budget, but catering to an audience that Konami incorrectly targeted
Chocobo- probably medium budget
Overall, These titles have sold well enough to profit or at least offset the losses. none of these are bank breakers, and none of them are AAA quality (except maybe Z/W).
Why are we even talking We love Golf? Its a very casual game that some of you think Wii owners only buy. So there must be another reason for its failure. The fact that Nights and Zack and Wiki did not burn up the chart anywhere in the world just shows how much potential these titles have, there really isn't anything wrong with Japan. The rest of the world seems to agree.
HK-47 said:
Well I really don't think so. You probably forgot that the US market is much bigger for the Wii and Zack and wiki did low numbers there. The fact that it's a low budget title with little advertising and maybe some stealth legs has made it a profiteble title for Capcom. As far as Europe goes, it charted in some countries but not in the top ten.
ksamedi said:
THANK YOU.
that bolded sentence beats almost everything in the last 5 pages.
so according to many here, half-assed games with no advertising should sell just because. If not, the audience sucks and support should be withdrawn. :lol :lol That's stupid.
if a game fails to attract an existing and healthy audience, THE PUBLISHER did something wrong. It can be many things like: bad advertising, misleading concept, bad execution, saturation of a particular genre, etc, etc.
that's why the interview with the silent hill 5 producer saying " No, no SH plans for wii, the wii userbase isn't hardcore " is so fucking stupid, it really makes my head boil when I see it. it's your fucking job to turn as many casuals as possible into hardcore, you moron! you can't go around thinking " well, that 20 million owners didn't want my game anyway ", you HAVE TO make them want your game, be it Dewy or silent hill or WE:2008 for wii.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Rancid Mildew said:
FWIW I chose not to include DMC4 because we just got first week sales on it and we have absolutely no international information whatsoever. More important from my perspective, we have no information on the PS3/360 split in a region where both consoles exist in a meaningful way.
Innotech said:
Let me expand on these;
First, NiGHTS is the first game by Sonic Team USA since Shadow the Hedgehog. So it seems likely to me that assuming the majority of STUSA was working on the title, its budget had to be decent. I'd argue it was rushed in the sense that it could have been more polished, but it was given two delays that the public are aware of in order to be polished up.
Zack and Wiki is "low budget" but I'm not so sure the term can even meaningfully be used here. Based on the concept and scope of the game, could it have really been bigger budget? I mean, clearly the advertising of the game was poor and so you could definitely have upped the post-production budget, but in terms of production I'm not sure the budget of the game could have been higher or lower. So if we're simply considering "is it profitable?" then yes, the game is low budget--if we're asking "does this represent a genuine effort?" then I'm not sure the game's low budget impedes the affirmative answer to this.
WLG is tough to tell because it was "outsourced" to Camelot. Because we don't really have a lot of information about Capcom's role in the title, it's sort of hard to tell how it was budgeted. If Capcom are simply the publishers, then it's likely that it was low budget. If Capcom requested that Camelot do this game and bankrolled Camelot to do the game, the budget probably creeps up.
Opoona--Koei has NEVER made a game that would be considered anything higher than low budget. Ever. Not for any system. Again, we have a situation of being unaware how much Koei spent on the game; if Koei was merely the publisher for Artepiezza's effort, then it was probably ULTRA-LOW budget. If Koei actively recruited Artepiezza to make the title, then it was normal low budget for Koei.
Dewy--you're wrong here. Dewy was low budget, through and through. The entire production staff was the team allocated for Elebits and they used at least some of the Elebits code. Also, we're aware that both Elebits and Dewy arose from concept demos for the Wii done internally, so I figure that Dewy was even lower budget than we suspect. PLUS, we're aware of the product placement done in the US version so likely localization was partially or entirely subsidized by Nestlé. So we might even say that in some respects Dewy was no budget.
Chocobo - hard to tell. Again, a substantial amount of the team was assembled from Chocobo DS so there wasn't a lot of administrative cost. On the other hand, this means that their lack of Wii experience probably required a training ramp-up period. Obviously the game itself was pretty low cost. Some marketing was done, though, so there's budget there. I'd say you're most apt to be right about this one.
Some of the game credits gurus around here could probably pour over some of the technical staff involved in each of these games and clarify the team situations based on that, which would probably inform us of the budgets a little bit better.
vanguardian1
poor, homeless and tasteless
Anymore I'm beginning to wonder if most of the Wii's 3rd party support are part of a "cannon fodder" strategy, where developers and publishers try to hold out for a platform to rely on 3rd party support for it's success near-or-at exclusiveness like the ps2.
I realize it sounds kinda paranoid, but I can't help but wonder at this point... 0.o
I realize it sounds kinda paranoid, but I can't help but wonder at this point... 0.o
Dynasty Warriors 6schuelma said:
Gundam Musou
Ridge Racer 7
Sega Rally
Virtua Fighter 5
These games were all bombs relative to budget and expectations on the PS3. Which do you think lost the most money? AAA bombs are much more serious than low profile bombs. (Though there are certainly examples of the latter type on PS3 as well.)