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[S¡mon]

EDIT This pretty much sums up what I was trying to say:

I think OP is saying they DID lie, saying localization was the reason for the staggered launch. But now Microsoft has set up the expectation that Kinect voice commands will work properly when the Xbox One DOES launch in other territories, and OP is saying that's a really difficult thing to get right. That means Microsoft has two options: launch with crappy/partial voice localization, and suffer the cries of pain from people who believed Microsoft's promises and now can't tell their Xbox to arretez-vous, or wait until the localizations are good, which could take longer than expected (i.e. late 2014).

/end of edit

As some of you may or may not know, the Xbox One was delayed from a November 2013 launch to a '2014' launch for Belgium, Denmark, Finland, the Netherlands, Norway, Russia, Sweden and Switzerland.

The reason? Kinect voice recognizition has to be localized.

Was this the real reason for the delays?
I personally don't think so. I really think Microsoft simply wanted to focus on the big guys: US, UK and other larger markets (such as Germany and France).

Obviously, if you first announce a November 2013 release date and than change your mind, you'll have to come up with a decent excuse. Microsoft came up with the "Kinect has to be localized"-excuse. I think that Microsoft shot itself in the foot when they decided to go for this excuse.

Localization is not an easy thing: it'll be impossible to do an early 2014 Xbox One launch
It takes a lot of manpower and knowledge to properly process foreign languages. Even Google, arguably the biggest tech company' when it comes to voice recognizition, has lots of problems with properly translating sentences and words.

Apple, not a small player either, has had similar problems with voice recognizition. In 2011, Apple said that they would launch their voice recognizition service, Siri, in several European countries in late 2012 or early 2013. It's 2014... and they have only managed to add a few more languages.

What is my point? I think Microsoft will experience, and is experiencing, extreme difficulty in supporting other European languages, such as Dutch, Russian and Finish.

Late 2014 launch
I think that, at the earliest, they'll be able to launch the Xbox One in late 2014. And even than, their voice recognizition for foreign languages (such as Finnish) will be inferior compared to their English voice recognizition.

The only way that they'll make an Early 2014 launch is if they simply decide to not include localization support or use very simplified localization support that will be way less advanced than their English voice recognizition.
If they decide to go this route, than they can probably expect negative media attention... first saying the Xbox One is delayed because of localization issues, than launching Xbox One without proper localization support?

I think Microsoft made a mistake here. They should have never used the localization excuse.

 

[GavinGT]

They should have lied?

 

[CambriaRising]

Didn't CBOAT say this excuse was bs anyway?

 

[bidguy]

Didn't CBOAT say this excuse was bs anyway?

he also said theres going to be major shitstorm coming at launch

 

[GavinGT]

Didn't CBOAT say this excuse was bs anyway?

If it was BS, you'd think they would announce a launch date now that they have ample stock.

He said a lot of things.

 

[Hoo-doo]

I'm betting there won't be any support for the dutch language anyway, not even after the delay.

 

[chrominance]

They should have lied?

I think OP is saying they DID lie, saying localization was the reason for the staggered launch. But now Microsoft has set up the expectation that Kinect voice commands will work properly when the Xbox One DOES launch in other territories, and OP is saying that's a really difficult thing to get right. That means Microsoft has two options: launch with crappy/partial voice localization, and suffer the cries of pain from people who believed Microsoft's promises and now can't tell their Xbox to arretez-vous, or wait until the localizations are good, which could take longer than expected (i.e. late 2014).

 

[serversurfer]

To be fair, I've yet to meet anyone who even spoke Switzer, and I even spent three days in Switzerland.

 

[ElTorro]

Was this the real reason for the delays?
I personally don't think so. I really think Microsoft simply wanted to focus on the big guys: US, UK and other larger markets (such as Germany and France).

When I switch my system language from German to Austrian, I suddenly can't use voice controls anymore, because they are "not support in this region", despite the fact that they launched in Austria.

It's hard to see why they would launch in Austria without voice control, but not in those other delayed countries, if that was the only issue.

http://kotaku.com/xbox-one-voice-commands-wont-work-at-launch-for-everyo-1224624316

Xbox voice commands will not be available in all markets on the product release date. Voice commands will be available at launch in US, UK, CA, FR, and DE.

Which suggests the rest of the primary launch markets - Australia, Austria, Brazil, Ireland, Italy, Mexico, New Zealand and Spain - are outta luck.

 

[S¡mon]

They should have lied?

They simply should have said they couldn't do a November 2013 launch 'due to high-demand' or something like that.

Now they have set expectations: voice recognizition support that offers all the features the English voice recognizition offers.
Google can't do it, and I don't think Microsoft can do it.

 

[Valnen]

If it was BS, you'd think they would announce a launch date now that they have ample stock.

He said a lot of things.

I suspect the reason it appears they have ample stock is because they are shipping to fewer countries than the PS4.

 

[Doffen]

They should have lied?

They did lie. I doubt there ever will come a day that Xbox One will feature Norwegian speak recognition.
The legalization will likely only consist of translated manual, added region, translated menu and local currency.

 

[S¡mon]

I think OP is saying they DID lie, saying localization was the reason for the staggered launch. But now Microsoft has set up the expectation that Kinect voice commands will work properly when the Xbox One DOES launch in other territories, and OP is saying that's a really difficult thing to get right. That means Microsoft has two options: launch with crappy/partial voice localization, and suffer the cries of pain from people who believed Microsoft's promises and now can't tell their Xbox to arretez-vous, or wait until the localizations are good, which could take longer than expected (i.e. late 2014).

Exactly. You sum it up perfectly.

If they manage to pull it off, I'll applaud them... but I don't think they'll be able to pull it off.

 

[hadareud]

Wait until they release their WP voice recognition service (Cortana) in April in the US and a year later in Europe because of localisation issues and tell me again whether it's a lie or simply ineptitude.

 

[Amir0x]

he also said theres going to be major shitstorm coming at launch

It's a little hard to parse out the truth anymore, but the fact that the installation times are insane on XBO and the party chat is completely fucking nonsense on the platform... can indeed speak to shitstorms he may or may not have been talking about. I mean, I think it's a huge deal how fucked up party chat is, but it has not caught on as a major issue because I think people were expecting something even worse.

I was too, but the litany of issues I currently have from my hands-on definitely combine into a major one.

Unfortunately unless cboat comes back and explains, we'll never know.

 

[Daedardus]

Samsung can perfectly support Dutch voice controls with their SmartTVs, I don't see why Microsoft can't.

 

[emiranda061288]

I don't think is hard to recognize specific commands because they are finite and the language variations can't be more than 10 for language. Trying to recognize every single word is another problem.

 

[Guymelef]

Not releasing in Switzerland kills all this "Kinect voice recognition" excuse.

 

[Atolm]

Whatever the reason, it doesn't matter. Those markets were lost for MS the moment they announced the delay.

 

[Clockwork5]

So you say it wasn't the reason for the delay, but then argue it won't be done in time because it was too difficult for apple and Google translate (which has nothing to do with voice recognition localization...)

You may have a point but I have no idea what it is.

 

[Vanillalite]

Wouldn't be a problem if we had a Kinectless Xbox One, but I digress. That isn't gonna happen.

Still gonna be an issue going forward as Sony will have no issue launching everywhere.

 

[PJV3]

I thought it was the search functions that were also the problem as they used the servers.
Penello was going to produce a chart with different voice issues in each country.

 

[Amir0x]

Whatever the reason, it doesn't matter. Those markets were lost for MS the moment they announced the delay.

to be fair, those markets were lost for them the second they said "new Xbox." Those markets simply don't really care about the Xbox brand for whatever reason, not at the large scale.

 

[ElTorro]

It's a little hard to parse out the truth anymore, but the fact that the installation times are insane on XBO and the party chat is completely fucking nonsense on the platform... can indeed speak to shitstorms he may or may not have been talking about. I mean, I think it's a huge deal how fucked up party chat is, but it has not caught on as a major issue because I think people were expecting something even worse.

I think bishoptl was right and CBoaT just overstated a real issue. Apparently, Microsoft managed to get the system software and infrastructure to a state that was good enough for launch. You definitely notice that the Xbox One came in hot. Many thing are still buggy, inconsistent and incomplete. But since that is what people would expect from a console launch, nobody was really pissed off. At least you could play all games without major problems.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

I suspect the reason it appears they have ample stock is because they are shipping to fewer countries than the PS4.

The whole point of the delays was to have ample stock in key territories like the US and it's paying off. If Sony had done the same they would be beating the XB1 in the US

 

[Curufinwe]

The whole point of the delays was to have ample stock in key territories like the US and it's paying off. If Sony had done the same they would be beating the XB1 in the US

They are beating the XB1 in the US.

And they still would have sold the same amount of consoles in 2013 if they had allocated more to the US.

 

[stevil]

To be fair, I've yet to meet anyone who even spoke Switzer, and I even spent three days in Switzerland.

Lol yeah the same in Belgium.

I hope they will fix the pal and 60fps issue otherwise it is a very expensive box as you can't use one of the main functions. I think it is more important than shouting in your own language

 

[FranXico]

The localization claims currently are the least of Microsoft's problems.

 

[Tsundere]

They should have lied?

Who says they didn't?

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

To be fair, I've yet to meet anyone who even spoke Switzer, and I even spent three days in Switzerland.

That's because the speak Swizz-Germsman over there. Or classic Fronch.

 

[Bundy]

Of course it was a lie! Their main focus was USA, UK, etc.

 

[Amir0x]

I think bishoptl was right and CBoaT just overstated a real issue. Apparently, Microsoft managed to get the system software and infrastructure to a state that was good enough for launch. You definitely notice that the Xbox One came in hot. Many thing are still buggy, inconsistent and incomplete. But since that is what people would expect from a console launch, nobody was really pissed off. At least you could play all games without major problems.

Yea, I mean I think in a way it was good ... cboat oversold it such that the expectations were heightened to the point where what actually happened seemed tame.

To me, though, the combined problems really are quite serious and may hint at the shitstorm CBOAT thought would arrive.

1. Party Chat - 360 had a fantastic party chat system that simply needed a few upgrades for next-gen. What ever this 'thing" is on XBO is an abomination unto mankind, one of the worst implementations of the feature I've ever seen.

2. UI Navigation for Controllers - I don't have unrealistic expectations, but when your UI is a complete headache to navigate with a controller, especially when it's far, far worse than Microsoft's own standard for 360, then it's unacceptable for me. It's nice some people want to use voice, but for me it fails at least 20% of the time, and it's not worth the frustration that lack of reliability brings.

3. Game Installation - Microsoft 360 wasn't like the best ever in this regard, but it was practically designed by the hand of Jesus himself compared to what we have on Xbox One. Some of the installs can take almost 20 minutes, and I've heard a few reports of 30 minutes or more on certain games. This is not real life.

4. All sorts of tweaks - Battery Indicator for your controller, status bar indicators improvement, way better set up for friends list, add streaming etc

5. Completely revamped system for harddrive cleaning - This is self-explanatory. I've never seen such a daft set up, can't even get an accurate judging of remaining HDD space. Again, it's a massive regression vs. what we had on 360. This is one of the most confusing aspects of all to me. I have no idea how a system ships with something this simple fucked.

Those are my top priorities. And combined with the forced Kinect and the price, they currently make the system one that is very unappealing for me. When they fix these things - and they will - I'm all-in.

 

[Doffen]

to be fair, those markets were lost for them the second they said "new Xbox." Those markets simply don't really care about the Xbox brand for whatever reason, not at the large scale.

360 had enough market to be precent in the PAL charts.

 

[Amir0x]

360 had enough market to be precent in the PAL charts.

The truth is only the UK and US were significant markets for the Xbox. Do you really disagree?

 

[Sons Of Anarchy]

The whole point of the delays was to have ample stock in key territories like the US and it's paying off. If Sony had done the same they would be beating the XB1 in the US

Sorry PS4 is still winning US

 

[mitchman]

Fun fact: if you order from microsoftstore.de to Norway, the console is shipped from a storage in Norway with Norwegian warranty and material.

 

[UnluckyKate]

Siri is far more complex to localize than the few voice command for Kinect...

 

[Doffen]

The truth is only the UK and US were significant markets for the Xbox. Do you really disagree?

No. The part I disagreed with was "Those markets simply don't really care about the Xbox brand". Microsoft could have made 360 a lot more successful in these market, but they dropped the ball, and Xbox One is not even going to sit on the bench due to the lack of commitment from Microsoft in these regions.

 

[sangreal]

The reason? Kinect voice recognizition has to be localized.

That's not what they said.

I’m going to state it again, just like I said here and to OXM: The delay was localization related. Besides needing local language support, we also need to prop-up local Live, Apps, a Marketplace, and a variety of other services. We bundle that together as “localization” in messaging, but there is more to shipping in a region then text and voice translation.

 

[Amir0x]

No. The part I disagreed with was "Those markets simply don't really care about the Xbox brand". Microsoft could have made 360 a lot more successful in these market, but they dropped the ball, and Xbox One is not even going to sit on the bench due to the lack of commitment from Microsoft in these regions.

I wish I could find that post someone made demonstrating how inconsequential Microsoft's sales were in the vast majority of these territories. We're talking single digit percentages here.

I mean, I suppose it'd depend on how literal you take "don't really care", but I simply meant... Xbox brand sells like an infinitesimal fraction compared to the competition in those territories.

 

[Kinyou]

Not releasing in Switzerland kills all this "Kinect voice recognition" excuse.

Maybe they're actually trying to make it understand "Schwizerdütsch" ? lol

 

[Doffen]

I wish I could find that post someone made demonstrating how inconsequential Microsoft's sales were in the vast majority of these territories. We're talking single digit percentages here.

I mean, I suppose it'd depend on how literal you take "don't really care", but I simply meant... Xbox brand sells like an infinitesimal fraction compared to the competition in those territories.

I can't find hardware sales number, but here are the nordic retail software sales numbers:

2011 and 2012

 

[Delusibeta]

Honestly? The Xbone's at the stage where supply has overtaken demand, it's time to release in new territories, voice controls be damned. They've already launched in countries with voice controls disabled, no harm adding more countries to that list.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

I thought it was the search functions that were also the problem as they used the servers.
Penello was going to produce a chart with different voice issues in each country.

Doubt he will ever do it, he hasnt posted on gaf since launch.

 

[EGM1966]

Whether there was ever localization issues or not is kind of moot really - with the pre-order patterns what they were it was obvious that no matter what MS was going to prioritize only a few territories and give very small allocations to only a few others.

If MS had proceeded with the original rollout they would have probably sold the same amount of units (maybe even a few more) but they would have been further behind Sony in US & UK than they already are and would have handed Sony NPD for November & December on a plate - clearly the majority of stock went to US, a smaller amount to UK and then even smaller allocations to the few other places they launched.

I think simple expediency to remain as close to Sony as possible in a few regions overrode all other concerns in the end.

Mind you judging by the reports of plentiful stock in US they might have misjudged the cut-off for early adopter demand collapsing to a more steady demand so they should seriously start balancing their inventory better across more regions.

 

[oconnomiyaki]

Uh... They'll just end up doing what they did in New Zealand: launch without voice commands. And people will rage, just like they are here. But I don't think they lied. The Xbox One is not a very localised product.

 

[Curufinwe]

Wow, I didn't know it didn't have voice commands in NZ.

Doubt he will ever do it, he hasnt posted on gaf since launch.

I think the fellow has had some technical issues with that chart.

 

[enanogrande]

I think they lied too, but I don't think they made a 'mistake' doing it. No one except us will care about them lying or not, so theres no consequence.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

I think that Microsoft shot itself in the foot when they decided to go for this excuse.

are you an expert on european culture

 

[JaggedSac]

Yea, I mean I think in a way it was good ... cboat oversold it such that the expectations were heightened to the point where what actually happened seemed tame.

To me, though, the combined problems really are quite serious and may hint at the shitstorm CBOAT thought would arrive.

1. Party Chat - 360 had a fantastic party chat system that simply needed a few upgrades for next-gen. What ever this 'thing" is on XBO is an abomination unto mankind, one of the worst implementations of the feature I've ever seen.

2. UI Navigation for Controllers - I don't have unrealistic expectations, but when your UI is a complete headache to navigate with a controller, especially when it's far, far worse than Microsoft's own standard for 360, then it's unacceptable for me. It's nice some people want to use voice, but for me it fails at least 20% of the time, and it's not worth the frustration that lack of reliability brings.

3. Game Installation - Microsoft 360 wasn't like the best ever in this regard, but it was practically designed by the hand of Jesus himself compared to what we have on Xbox One. Some of the installs can take almost 20 minutes, and I've heard a few reports of 30 minutes or more on certain games. This is not real life.

4. All sorts of tweaks - Battery Indicator for your controller, status bar indicators improvement, way better set up for friends list, add streaming etc

5. Completely revamped system for harddrive cleaning - This is self-explanatory. I've never seen such a daft set up, can't even get an accurate judging of remaining HDD space. Again, it's a massive regression vs. what we had on 360. This is one of the most confusing aspects of all to me. I have no idea how a system ships with something this simple fucked.

Those are my top priorities. And combined with the forced Kinect and the price, they currently make the system one that is very unappealing for me. When they fix these things - and they will - I'm all-in.

You are the king if hyperbole.

Party system needs work, that's for sure. But they did it in order to resolve any NAT or endpoint related issues that arise from parties in the system that the 360 has. I have a couple friends who cannot join each others started parties for whatever reason. Both have NAT open. Hell sometimes if they join my party, everyone in the party drops except me and that person. Defaulting to no chat is pretty stupid.

Not knowing how to do something != the thing is shit. Its like getting made at a game for not knowing you meant to hit B but you really hit A. Either that or you don't so much as speak your language so much as chew it up and spit it out. And the issues with using the UI with a controller are incredibly exaggerated. You used it for how long, once for a couple hours? Give me some concrete examples of controller issues you have and then we can talk. Or link me to that ign page that goes about as non in depth as is possible.

So yeah, nothing even remotely shit storm worthy.