Mr Moose
Member
Why didn't MS outbid Sony?
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[Jez Corden] Hotly anticipated 'Black Myth: Wukong' is delayed on Xbox for 'optimizations' — and now, Microsoft has responded
- Thread starter Topher
- Start date
Frwrd
Member
Kataploom
Gold Member
As I understand, Sony was market leader for those games and those deals are made by paying the publisher the difference of what they'd earn in the other platform, Sony have to pay waaaaay less than MS due to MS market share being lower by a wide margin, iirc the reason they gave for the purchased was "if we're gonna pay that much we rather just buy the whole thing anyway", can't be sure if the quote was in reference to Game Pass deals or exclusivity tho, maybe it's irrelevant which one it is for
ChorizoPicozo
Gold Member
it would be quite the opposite
Daneel Elijah
Member
I don't think that Sony need to pay less than Xbox for moneyhatting games, because they mostly go for new devs. Instead I think that they give help that is just impossible to get outside of the best publishers in the market. But for most games there is no need to even go there, you just need to find them early and help them to make their first game.
Look at games like Kena or Sifu, or even Alan Wake 2. If Microsoft wanted to have those games, would they have to pay that much more than whatever the studios needed for making the game?
And look at recent rumors of Microsoft making deals with ex devs from notorious studios like Rockstar, Ubisoft, Activision? Now that they do want to compete, they seem to be able to do so easily, right?
MisterXDTV
Member
The minute MS releases a box that supports Steam, the Xbox platform and console is gone forever.
No developer will support a useless platform. They will make the games run via Steam just like on any other PC on the market
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Nydius
Gold Member
Not to mention it would obliterate any reason for the Xbox Games Store to exist. Who would want to pay full price for a game on the Xbox storefront when they can get it for Steam prices on the exact same device?
It would turn Xbox into a Steam Machine that also happens to have access to legacy Xbox titles.
Negotiator101
Gold Member
Sony crossing the developer's palm with silver to compensate for the lack of PS exclusives this year, naughty naughty.
bender
What time is it?
Angry_Megalodon
Gold Member
This is why this can't be called "buying exclusives". Sony has contributed to developing games that otherwise would not exist or would have been much smaller and helped new devs become mainstream. Shift Up, Mihoyo. the whole China Hero Project...
They also helped in the development process. It's so hypocritical that when those games were revealed many shills and fans called them "vaporware" and now that they are confirmed as legit great games, the naysayers whine like little bitches.
kikii
Member
Fredrik
Member
How? It would essentially turn the Xbox into a living room PC and give Xbox owners access to games delayed on the Xbox console.
Skifi28
Member
You've already said that, but you ignored all the people that replied to you only to say the exact same thing again. Are you broken? That's not sane behaviour.
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He says that others see an alternative reality...... and then his reference that Sony suffered massive criticism campaigns for its third party exclusivity are articles from Windows Central, Tom Warren and the usual Xbox fans on Twitter.Are you from an alternate dimension? Did you read the articles the rest of us were reading?
No this is 2016 PTSD; the press haven't been against Microsoft getting exclusives in years. Hell, the vast majority were cheering for them to buy Zenimax and ABK, and were salivating at MS making all those games Xbox (console) exclusives.
What? If anything Sony are the meek ones; they just let all types of FUD fester on end to the point of being annoying. MS almost always put Phil, Sarah, Booty or paid shills like Jez, Tom Warren etc. out there to campaign for Xbox 24/7 and control every narrative they can.
Because it was revealed as a timed exclusive. So of course they were gonna ask when the PS version would release.
We don't see that with Sony 3P exclusives because as we've seen with FF XVI and Rebirth, Square-Enix & Sony are more than happy to mention the timed exclusivity period right there in advertisement fine-print.
Okay if Ravenlok & Echo Generation are "no big deal" (even if there are players on other platforms not Steam who'd like to play them but can't because they're Xbox exclusives), then why are all these supposed Xbox fans getting mad over super-old games like Tomba and the Capcom Marvel collection skipping Xbox? Surely those aren't massive games at all like Perfect Dark, South of Midnight, Fable, DOOM etc. that were all revealed coming to Xbox at the Showcase as (timed) exclusives, right?
Is it perhaps because the size of the game doesn't really matter and shouldn't excuse it out of the conversation when discussing exclusivity of 3P games being done on both sides (all sides, really: Nintendo does it too)?
Well a game is a game, is it not? It shouldn't matter if those titles don't have the profile of FF; there is still an audience for those games on PlayStation that can't play them on PlayStation because they are console exclusives on Xbox.
Also I think FF's profile is somewhat exaggerated; XVI and even Rebirth have sold at I'd assume the typical pace of prior console-exclusive FF games, yet the media has tried hard to paint them both as financial failures (and pin that on PS5 exclusivity). The FF games were never 15-20 million sellers the way a TLOU, COD or GOW have been, let alone 30+ million sellers like Mario games, GTA, etc.
TBF those documents were leaked, it's the only reason we know about its exclusivity status. Although IIRC Microsoft outright mentioned the 3-month exclusivity period shortly after reveal.
To say that the media in general were participants and defenders of the ABK acquisition agreement when to this day they continue to penalize MS with articles that border on the shameful.....
The reality is that of generalist and supposedly neutral media being silent and cautious when dealing with Sony's exclusivity agreements with third parties depriving XBOX users of games like FF and other big franchises (not small and new Indi IPs of which Sony also doubles or triples Xbox). Typical articles trying to make you believe that games like SFV or FF wouldn't exist without supposed funding from Sony, or arguing the suitability of them being exclusive or inventing reasons to justify their non-release on XBOX... That's what you usually see, not articles massive lawsuits demanding and forcing the Studio or publisher to clarify whether a future version on Xbox is a real possibility in order not to remove the value and effects that are pursued with these agreements.
And yes, not even close to media pressure to clarify the terms of the agreements. Media asking about PS5 versions instead of the game itself or articles belittling the attractiveness of the exclusivity agreement "because we know it is only temporal exclusive and you can wait and not buy an Xbox or PC" etc...
Whether you want to see it or not, that's what's been happening. A clear historical unequal treatment.
graywolf323
Member
sounds perfect to me
ChorizoPicozo
Gold Member
people need to realize that Xbox is trying to find a place in an industry that has no more space.
is not about an strategy or a vision, Xbox biggest challenges are the bunisess realities of the industry.
Now, they need to make every single game they make financially successful. as long as they have some kind of hardware attached to the Xbox brand they are going to be distracted from that goal.
TheGodfather07
Member
Hasn't there been like 5 exclusives released already this year? Why do you keep repeating this like an idiot?
IDappa
Member
Missing the fact Microsoft plans to push discounts and deals hard. Look at the Xbox store now and there are decent sales on it that actually are better than steam in some instances. You don’t think Microsoft knows they will have to have competitive pricing once they have multiple storefronts supported?.
New Xbox will boot the Microsoft store as standard and you will have to “find” the other storefronts. Casuals will stick with the default experience and enthusiasts will go the extra mile with their experience .
You’re also missing the people who are already invested in the ecosystem that will continue to invest in their game library on Xbox.
LordCBH
Member
Hi Senjutsu
King Dazzar
Member
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Space isn't the issue.
We always had a 3rd console option.
Now using that space properly is the issue.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Helldivers
Steller Blade
Final Fantasy 7: Rebirth
Concord
Astrobot
Silent Hill 2 Remake
So far, Xbox has just released... Hellblade 2.
Sony clearly doesn't have a problem with exclusives this year.
There's no evidence it's a time exclusive deal. You should blame the Xbox Series S because that's the most likely reason why.
ChorizoPicozo
Gold Member
im talking about the entirety of the industry.
Once PlayStation entered the console market, Sega was out and Nintendo took a hit. Then Xbox entered, further damaging Nintendo.
That indicates the console market can't sustain three consoles.
Furthermore, we know Xbox has never made any money on hardware, and when they were most competitive, the market share between PlayStation and Xbox was split in half.
With the rise of development costs and the length of development cycles, having such a small installed base is not viable when you need games to sell 10+ million copies.
Nintendo consolidate itself on handled. for 10 years since the Xbox One, MS has been trying to find ways of success:
They are on PC (Windows store) the market leader there is steam
On mobile via Xcloud and the acquisitions
(COD Mobile, candy crush, Fallout shelter...). Google and Apple dominante that market segment
We know their situation on console.
as an ecosystem with Game Pass they haven't found the grow they nedded.
Every decision that was meant to make Xbox stronger in every respect since 2016 has been in fact made Xbox weaker as a brand, platform and ecosystem, we know this thanks to the latest financial report.
vivftp
Member
Must be a bit. I know you read my previous post since you reacted to it. Is it willful ignorance? Commitment to the bit? What drives you to spout nonsense? For your benefit, I'll quote it again and make it easier to read
What in the world...
This has been and will be a solid year for PlayStation published and console exclusive content:
SIE Published:
TLOU Part 2 Remastered
Helldivers 2
Rise of the Ronin
Stellar Blade
MLB24
Destiny 2 The Final Shape
Concord
Astro Bot
LEGO Horizon Adventure
Until Dawn PS5/PC
(plus additional PC ports like Ghost of Tsushima and God of War Ragnarok)
Console Exclusive:
Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth
Foamstars
Granblue Fantasy Relink
Silent Hill 2 Remake
Pacific Drive
Baby Steps
Final Fantasy 16 Rising Tide DLC
Zenless Zone Zero
And there's still room for additional content to drop this year. There's the China Joy event next month so we could get release dates for Lost Soul Aside and Convallaria, which are both published by SIE. There's also the possibility of a Spider-Man 2 DLC that could land around the 1 year anniversary of the game. There's also Phantom Blade Zero which we don't have a specific release date for yet. I'm not sure if you're using some twisted logic definition to narrow down what you mean by "exclusive content" but 2024 has not been a year with very little content for PlayStation. Which is all the more remarkable when we consider how many of their heavy hitter studios and IP aren't showing up this year, but will be showing up next year and the year after.
2024's a very solid year for PlayStation and 2025/2026 are gonna eclipse it with the sheer quantity and quality of games they're sitting on. Fun times ahead.
nial
Gold Member
And they were clear as heck with that, do I need to remind people that it was announced for Xbox ONE and PS4, and that both versions were cancelled?
Extremely different situation because Sony isn't even producing and publishing Black Myth: Wukong, like they did with Stellar Blade.
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
It's fine if managed correctly is what I am saying.
MS didn't handle it correctly.
Sega in It's latter years didn't handle it correctly and NEC didn't handle it correctly in NA/Europe.
ChorizoPicozo
Gold Member
Yeah, what I’m saying is that right now, for Xbox, it’s not about any specific vision or strategy, but about taking actions to make Xbox sustainable. (as Phil Spencer has said multiple times..and Sarah Bond too). it’s almost like taking immediate action to save a sinking ship without thinking about the future
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
I think the writing on the wall is clear about what they're future is.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
As others already mentioned, at this point Sony has no reason to hide Exclusivity deals. Sony will announce these deals full blast in order to take advantage of it.
Xbox wanting to believe that Sony would even make secret deals anymore is just in denial. Series S is causing issues as the developers claimed, full stop. Wait your turn until they resolve it. Your console made bad hardware decisions and now it impacts the customers, that is just the way it is.
Xbox wanting to believe that Sony would even make secret deals anymore is just in denial. Series S is causing issues as the developers claimed, full stop. Wait your turn until they resolve it. Your console made bad hardware decisions and now it impacts the customers, that is just the way it is.
Fredrik
Member
Again, how is Steam access on the next Xbox ”quite the opposite” than a great thing when Xbox versions are delayed?
You need to realize that Steam is literally always there in multiplat game releases, even now in Sony 1st party releases but delayed. As I said it would turn Xbox into a living room PC. Likely with a new big screen UI so you can easily go between MS Store releases, Game Pass and Steam, possibly Epic and other PC stores too. It would be awesome. Hopefully they release the UI/OS so it can be installed on any PC. Day 1 on that!
DeltaPolarBear
Member
I can come up with a few issues. Namely
1. Xbox as a platform holder is a reason why certain games were developed to support the library that would not make much money.
2. When Xbox platform weakens and get less games it makes the justification for the console's continued existence to also weaken.
3. If and when the Console cease to be a thing, multiple IPs would also die because they would not be strong enough to be developed as third party, as were the case with SEGA IPs.
4. XBOX IPs that aren't considered AAA would then outright disappear as Microsoft abandons them as a full time third party developer.
Console wars didn't happen out of nowhere; Consoles, unlike PCs, can actually die. And when a console die a lot of game IPs die with it.
But I guess Xbox customers had given up supporting their console for a long time. From not paying for games, to barely paying for Gamepass, to now saying they are happy to not have a console.
You know, you could have played on PC 30 years ago, right? What changed between the 90's and 2024 that made you think PC gaming is actually what you want?
ChorizoPicozo
Gold Member
it would create more problems than benefits.
understand that the industry is set and defined.
PC = Steam
Console = Playstation and Nintendo
Mobile = Google and Apple.
with the acquisition of Zenimax and ABK, Xbox has become a publisher first and foremost, the hardware legacy is rooted in Nostalgia for people who still has some kind of attachment emotional (their library of games)
The fact of the matter is that you can build and ITX PC and have what you are describing. Xbox is not needed for that.
Fredrik
Member
The Xbox console won’t cease to exist. It would just merge PC and Xbox into one box. As said, essentially a living room PC, but without the clunkiness of regular Windows, they will likely make a new UI with easy access to Gamepass, Xbox, Steam, possibly Epic and maybe even an upcoming PS launcher.
The real challenge is making that UI. And that’s also how they’ll make it feel like a Xbox and not just a PC.
Console games getting PC ports, better visuals and performance, full controller support, big screen modes. Those are the big reasons why I play on PC now. There is no real downsides, except the cost.
Poltz
Member
Project Eve* not Stellar Blade. Technicalities.
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Fredrik
Member
I assume that the next Xbox-PC hybrid won’t just run regular Windows. They’ll likely have a new UI or Windows variant made for TVs and controller, like Steam OS, making it different from a normal ITX build.
It’ll be a PC, but still a Xbox. Personally I think it’s a great idea.
And making it easy to go between standard Xbox releases and Gamepass and Steam and other launchers would be awesome. Like if they would do a 360 Blades OS and set different launchers on separate blades, swapping between them with the trigger buttons. Awesome!
But that’s a dream scenario, I don’t think they’ll do it like that, they’ll probably keep the current Xbox UI. With Microsoft Store and Gamepass as front page content. Either way it’ll be more convenient than now on PC when you’re suddenly pulled out of a nice experience and have to use mouse and keyboard to type in some crap login or to use different launchers. Regular Windows is crap in the living room.
You’re right though, it’s not needed, but very very convenient. And would give PC gaming in general a nice boost in the living room space, goes for Steam as well as Epic and other launchers if the UI/OS is done well. And would give Xbox as a brand a nice boost through more access to games not out on regular Xbox. It’s the most natural progression off traditional console boxes. Next step, if they don’t already do it this time, is just an app. And after that server based streaming to any screen, but that’s a decade away.
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I think you misunderstand MS' strategy here. In internal emails MS referred to gamepass like this: "which is now our new platform" or something similar to that. Their strategy revolves around gamepass and they know store sales for premium games would be miniscule which is why there are rumours of allowing other stores to begin with. They're banking on premium game sales to tank, they know that's what gamepass is reducing. They don't have anything to lose because they know they're pushing gamepass on it and if they lose those miniscule xbox game sales at least they retain the mtx money on gamepass and the attractiveness of games that didn't come to their store but came to PC/steam on their hardware. Their hardware they're likely to charge high prices for too if they allow it to be open. They're charging extortionate prices even now, $599 for a four years old XSX to be able to keep a disc drive.
nikolino840
Member
Not so clear...first they have canceled the platforms and then the collaboration with sony
SmurfMustard
Member
Not so clear...first they have canceled the platforms and then the collaboration with sony
Kerotan
Member
Obviously hired a bunch of Tim Dog man babies to manage their PR.
MisterXDTV
Member
Have you seen the software sale numbers for Xbox this gen??
LOL
Nobody is "investing" in the Xbox Store anymore...
Once you put Steam on a MS Box, you might as well shut it down for good
It's completely pointless to make a SKU for it
Daneel Elijah
Member
I see it like chrome and internet explorer. Hard to go back when you tried something way better.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
What about a game about the expeditions of Christopher Columbus called White Myth Wu Tang?
diffusionx
Gold Member
why would MS do that? the Surface business isn't doing great.
MisterXDTV
Member
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diffusionx
Gold Member
I agree - I dont even know why MS would release another Xbox honestly, especially not a branded PC.
Bojanglez
The Amiga Brotherhood
Phil Spencer clearly doesn't think it's a game Xbox fans deserve to play (at launch at least)
nial
Gold Member
Not so clear...first they have canceled the platforms and then the collaboration with sony
Why do you think a Xbox Series version was never announced? Yes, it was different, because you literally have the devs of Black Myth: Wukong saying that the Xbox Series version is coming later.