Support NeoGAF

[firelogic]

The reason consoles are so popular with the general public is that it's plug and play. You buy an affordable box with adequate specs (versus a gaming PC), and whichever game you buy that was made for the console, it works. It works the same across the board on all consoles. PC gets flak for being difficult when playing a new game. It needs driver updates. It needs hardware upgrades. It has multiple graphical settings. The experience is not easy and uniform.

Making the XB1 essentially a PC isn't going to work because the general public won't accept it and PC gamers are going to opt for the more modular and open PC, not an XB.

Yeah it sounds like a steam machine. How popular are steam machines? General public won't buy them and PC gamers won't buy them.

The guy is missing the whole point of console gaming.

And yes, game devs have been making games for multiple skus for years for the PC base. The problem isn't really with the devs, it's with the user experience when there are multiple SKUs. It becomes a problem of, "Gears 6 will only work like this if you upgrade this component. If you don't, then you're going to miss out on these things. If you only upgrade this component, you can't play Gears 6 on your XB1 even though it's a game made for the XB1 because it's really made for XB1+2(component upgrades)."

That's fine for the PC market and their minimum/recommended/ultra specs. That's not fine for the console market. Before thinking about the issue from your own POV where you're a saavy PC gamer, think about it from the POV of the general public. The people that make up the bulk of console sales. There's a reason they get consoles instead of building/buying/upgrading a gaming PC.

 

[TheDinoman]

Rare Replay on PC would be nice.

 

[Bsigg12]

I wonder if this means Microsoft will announce their first hardware revision at E3 and what kind of upgrade it will be. Also, and this is just a long shot, what if that upgrade brings to the table the ability to use a Rift on the Xbox One? The partnership with Oculus is already there, they just need a stronger console to drive it.

 

[outunderthestars]

Because instead of focusing on one SKU they have to focus on 2, potentially making the experience worse (more bugs as QA time is spent now on 2 SKUs).

However, more likely devs will focus on the most popular SKU (so the original xbone) and just put in some minor extra work into the newer SKU version (like many PC ports).

The potential for less effort on optimisation for the 1st model meaning you actually get a barely playable game rather then a playable game that's just "unplayable" to a PC gamer with high standards like you have now.

I assume that games would still have to pass cert to be released onto the Xbox platform.

 

[Ninja Sharingan]

The biggest news is it would possibly mean infinite backwards compatibility. Your old library will carry over to your new upgraded console as long as the games are updated to play on the newer OS revisions.

At least that's how it works on iOS.

Yup that would be the biggest news for me!

 

[The Albatross]

Not going to pre-judge them for something that hasn't happened and we haven't heard anything about.

I will say at the prospect of upgrading hardware on a console, it's easy to think of the 32x and be reminded of failure, but there are other cases where external hardware upgrades have worked, for instance, the N64 and the additional memory block.

There were dozens of games that were improved by the N64 expansion pack, and even a few of Nintendo's biggest releases like Perfect Dark that essentially required the pack. That said I can't imagine how this would work today, but I'm not a console engineer... Prior to 8 months ago, I would have said that backwards compatibility is basically impossible as well.

 

[Riddick]

So they're basically getting out of the console business. This is just a pre-built PC with the Xbox logo stuck on it.

 

[amardilo]

If they just release an updated Xbox One with some upped hardware (i.e. faster CPU and GPU) but it's still an Xbox One with the same OS, same games, same apps, same accessories and everything then I'll most likely upgrade. Also it would have to make sure that I can still play with my friends on the older hardware.

Seems like a PC style upgrade system but with a closed box (so maybe like iPhones and iPads). Hopefully it's out this year.

I'm jumping ahead but if it means existing games with dynamic scalers will play at higher resolutions (i.e. Halo 5) then I'll upgrade asap (as long as the cost of the console isn't over £500)!

 

[Darkstorne]

You don't lose anything?!
For this you lose the chance of having big exclusives to the system since it's now all PC. And you lose the chance of developers caring about optimizing code and push the system you have paid for. If it doesn't run well you'll just deal with bad graphics and/or performance or you are forced to upgrade.
These are significant losses for a console user.

That IS the life of a console gamer. 30fps is normal, and on Xbox One you're lucky if it's even 1080p. Optional upgrades sound like a wonderful idea if they can deliver on it in a user-friendly way.

They're not backing down from console development, they're trying to improve the experience and provide people with a legitimate reason to choose the Xbox other over consoles.

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

I cant find a way to word this without it sounding negative but it's genuinely a question, didn't other consoles struggle or die for similar ideas?

 

[Savinowned]

I wonder if Halo 6 will be on PC day one. That would pretty much convert me.

 

[TharpDaddy]

There is only one New-3DS/New3DSXL with a single game that is exclusive to the new platform.

Apart from that, was the 3DSXL faster than the original Fugly 3DS? or was the 2DS faster than the original hardware?

The New 3DS hardware is faster than the old. IIRC they upgraded the CPU on the New 3DS.

 

[TheCanisDirus]

PC?

Why can't Microsoft just release their own versions of "steam machines", or whatever, but could call them "Xbox's", which will give people different entry levels at different prices, but since they are all running windows 10 and DX12 or whatever, they all have some baseline that they are starting at? So basically you buy stuff through the XBOX store and it will play on any "Xbox Ready" PC?

I don't know how impossible any of this is. I know zip about PC's in general, but PC's have certainly always worked as an upgradable platform.

this this this

 

[GopherD]

With this and all of the recent announcements of Xbox One games coming out as Windows 10 apps, this genuinely feels like the end of Microsoft's foray into the console space.

It is a much reduced focus, yes.

 

[dancrane212]

The reason consoles are so popular with the general public is that it's plug and play. You buy an affordable box with adequate specs (versus a gaming PC), and whichever game you buy that was made for the console, it works. It works the same across the board on all consoles. PC gets flak for being difficult when playing a new game. It needs driver updates. It needs hardware upgrades. It has multiple graphical settings. The experience is not easy and uniform.

Making the XB1 essentially a PC isn't going to work because the general public won't accept it and PC gamers are going to opt for the more modular and open PC, not an XB.

Yeah it sounds like a steam machine. How popular are steam machines? General public won't buy them and PC gamers won't buy them.

The guy is missing the whole point of console gaming.

Playing a game on a more powerful Xbox One doesn't have to be any different than how one plays it today. The most I could see MS doing would be to add a desktop mode ala SteamOS but you should still have all game related configurations be locked depending on what hardware you play and have that console interface/experience as well (at least the option for it).

 

[Helznicht]

The OP article talk's up Cross-Buy quite heavily and then they announce GOWUE releases today......without cross-buy.

I wish MS would stop talking one direction and then act another, its getting old..........

 

[Man]

Sales of the Xbox One is going to nosedive from this point.

 

[matrix-cat]

I mean, they still have to do generations. There's always going to be an unavoidable point where you just cannot make a sufficiently advanced game run on a particular earlier revision. There's no way Gears 4 would run on an original Xbox, for example, without some huge undertaking by the developers. We're already seeing cross-gen games like Tomb Raider that basically need a whole extra development team to remake the game for the less powerful console, one generation apart. When do you draw the line? When are people going to feel like Xbox One Revision 12 is holding us all back and it'd be better to just make a clean break?

 

[SolidSnakex]

ouch...hope sony and nintendo don't follow this crap.

Sony recently used this during a presentation as one of the selling points for PSVR

I'd say they understand why consoles are appealing to people.

 

[outunderthestars]

So they're basically getting out of the console business. This is just a pre-built PC with the Xbox logo stuck on it.

Not at all. They would still control the content being made for it and generate royalties from every piece of software on it.

 

[mosdl]

This path ensures Backwards Compatibility. All games run under one software infrastructure. As Win10 has been touted as MS's last OS, just doing upgrades here on out, Console Win10 will be the same. Eventually game makers will stop supporting older console models (when the user base is low enough) but that could be 10+ years away. When your on your Xbox One (#5), you can still play your Titanfall2 if you want, its running on the same software platform, and MS will ensure the newer (and older) hardware is supported in the platform.

the problem is that game devs will still have to test their games on all the SKUs though for performance and SKU-specific bugs (because with hardware changes you can never rule those out), which is quite an additional cost.

 

[dose]

You don't have to upgrade your console every year, just as you don't have to upgrade your PC every year. you only upgrade your PC every year if you want to play every future game on its absolute highest settings, but if you're more worried about just playing the game -as opposed to having the highest graphics possible- then you can do so without updating for years. I'm assuming that's what they're going for.

Why? You don't have to upgrade. All this means is instead of being stuck on the same hardware until the next console cycle, you can upgrade at some point if you want, but you don't have to. You're not being forced to upgrade. If you want to wait until the next console you can do so, it'd be exactly like previous console generations in that case. I don't see how having more options is terrible.

The reaction i'm seeing here to this is baffling.

Lets say you like having a console that lasts for 4-6 years of a generation like it always has...nothing changes

Lets say you want to upgrade 2-3 years into the generation for slightly better graphics? You can do that and still play with everyone on the older consoles

Next generation all of last generations games will continue to work

You don't lose anything...some people will gain something

Do you really expect the likes of Ubisoft, Bethesda, Telltale etc to spend money and time on Dev & QA to ensure that the lowest spec machine runs their game at a decent res/framerate from start to finish? Seriously? I'll say it again. Terrible idea.

Typically MS supports things for 10 years after release, and they could do the same with the consoles.

Just like they did with the original Xbox yeh? Yeh.

 

[Dhruv_hanom]

"Hey, guys! For those of you who wanna upgrade... check this stuff out! Your games will run better! For you guys who can't upgrade... well....ummm....You're still part of the family!" - Microsoft

"we have a product for people who can't get online, it's called Xbox 360"

Sounds familiar right?

 

[Ninferno]

This could be awesome. As a PC gamer, if you are telling me in the future I can be playing Gear of War 4 and Halo 5 on my PC, I might shit my pants.

 

[PandaShake]

Digital Foundry will have their hands full comparing all these models if Sony and Nintendo follows suit. I'm kind of into this. Would love to see what magic 343 and Naughty Dog can do with continuously modern hardware. Every year is a bit severe. Maybe every two years.

 

[N30RYU]

MS firing shots everywhere that will end shooting their own foot.

 

[Breakbeat]

Also, disagree with the people saying this is a "necessary evolution" for the console market. More like it's a necessary evolution for Microsoft. Sony has proven that there is very much a market for fixed console hardware. Microsoft was just essentially offering up a product that could do the same thing for a higher price and with less horsepower, and it bit them. Combine that with the poor word-of-mouth they generated for themselves, and this is a logical step for them. They are taking steps to better serve their own niche of customers in an effort to grow a consumer base distinct from Sony's.

 

[chubigans]

The more I think about it, the more I'm realizing this is the easiest way to discontinue the Xbox brand of consoles altogether and merge it into their Windows platforms.

Had MS released Xbox Two or whatever, and it sold less than estimated, then that damages the brand even more. Hardware refreshes like this will allow MS to refer to the "Xbox Family" and MAUs much easier. There won't need to be major R&D costs for a new piece of hardware because they just have to keep updating components incrementally. It'll allow the Xbox to suffer whatever fate it has infront of it in a way that will be somewhat invisible to the general public, keep hardcore Xbox fans interested (or have them bail out onto the Windows 10 platform where they can play all their XB exclusive games), and so on.

This is a terrible idea from a mass market perspective but that's not what they're aiming for. They're folding Xbox into Windows, and this is kind of a brilliant move in doing it slowly but steady without causing a large amount of waves. It won't sell anything what a Playstation 5 might sell, but that's the point, because by then MS would want to be out of the console game and selling PC boxes at that point, some with the Xbox branding on it.

I always knew XB1 would be Microsoft's last console but the way they're transitioning is kind of brilliant. Well, maybe not from a sales point of view, but in keeping their Xbox brand healthy while trying to attract a new gaming audience for Windows 10? Absolutely.

 

[Weevilone]

There is only one New-3DS/New3DSXL with a single game that is exclusive to the new platform.

Apart from that, was the 3DSXL faster than the original Fugly 3DS? or was the 2DS faster than the original hardware?

New 3DS > 3DS > DSi > DS

 

[deathcab]

I'll be PMing you for powerball numbers since you can see the future.

Tool, has is past tense

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Great news. Now I am debating if I should trade in my Xbox One since I have a good PC and the main reason I play my Xbox these days are Forza and Killer Instinct.

I would personally trade it in yesterday if that's the games you play.

 

[Elandyll]

"Console space".
Wouldn't suprise me if he is actually talking about the next gen of Xbox, which is imo going to be branded HTPCs and thus upgradeable to some extent.

Just according to keikaku.

 

[lasrmountedmoai]

So they're basically getting out of the console business. This is just a pre-built PC with the Xbox logo stuck on it.

And eventually not even that. The xbox is never going to be the living room dominating media device they wanted it to be, and probably that's not something anyone even really wants in a mainstream way anymore.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

So they're basically getting out of the console business. This is just a pre-built PC with the Xbox logo stuck on it.

You could make that argument for anything electronic that is essentially a computer with a more limited OS.

I don't get this line-in-the-sand mentality at all..

 

[ironcreed]

I don't see why people are surprised about PC and consoles merging, at least with Xbox. Have you noticed that MS releases a new surface every 1-2 years? Xbox one is already essentially running Windows 10, with these developments it's hard not to see the next Xbox iteration running a full version of Windows.

Every console generation has gotten closer to just being a living room PC, I don't see why it's such a surprise that we've essentially gotten to that point.

It's been obvious for awhile now that they would do this. And people seem to think that just because you will be able to upgrade sooner, that the system you bought will become useless. No, we will still be able to stick with a system for a few years, like certain people who build/buy a PC choose to do before upgrading parts.

To be honest, I really don't give a shit if someone gets a bit more performance than me as long as I still get the game and it runs good for what I have. As it should because they would be insane to force people out of hardware so soon after getting it. It is not going to work that way, you will just be able to upgrade sooner now.

 

[jelly]

1080p 60fps with no short comings and 4K. That would be ace.

I like the idea as long as there is no two versions of games to buy or play with other people and hardware refresh is about 3-4 years.

Turn the AF to 16x and party.

 

[outunderthestars]

Do you really expect the likes of Ubisoft, Bethesda, Telltale etc to spend money and time on Dev & QA to ensure that the lowest spec machine runs their game at a decent res/framerate from start to finish? Seriously? I'll say it again. Terrible idea.

What do yo think the XB1 is now? I'd say that it is the lowest spec'ed platform with the smallest userbase, yet developers still manage to put out pretty consistent content on it.

 

[CosmicGroinPull]

Yeah no thanks Microsoft. I'll just upgrade my pc if I want to play prettier versions of my console games. Goodbye... /from a PS4 owner.


Actually wouldn't this be bad for the console market? Sony once said it would be bad for Nintendo to fail.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Digital Foundry will have their hands full comparing all these models if Sony and Nintendo follows suit.

Haha, true.

 

[cheesekao]

I am of the opinion that this will potentially set a bad precedent whereby a dev will optimize their game for the newer hardware and the older versions will get the short end of the stick.

 

[darkwing]

if people buy a new phone every year at around $600, a $349 console is a no brainer when you can trade it in for a discount

 

[Shin-Ra]

Welcome to the life of a PC gamer without loads of cash to upgrade everything few months.

And that's a nice differentiator for traditional consoles.

 

[Riddick]

Not at all. They would still control the content being made for it and generate royalties from every piece of software on it.

So it would have all the disadvantages of a PC with none of the advantages other than Microsoft checking if the software is compatible.

 

[TharpDaddy]

Do you really expect the likes of Ubisoft, Bethesda, Telltale etc to spend money and time on Dev & QA to ensure that the lowest spec machine runs their game at a decent res/framerate from start to finish? Seriously? I'll say it again. Terrible idea.

I imagine Microsoft's whole goal is making it so the game/system itself does that work, it will adapt based on the available hardware power. Xbox One 2013 is the baseline and then it can scale up from there. If they can achieve that then it's no water off the devs back I imagine, if they can't achieve that then I agree it's a bad idea.

 

[mosdl]

I assume that games would still have to pass cert to be released onto the Xbox platform.

Passing cert doesn't mean much these days quality wise (which affects all console makers) - now imagine cert having to certify multiple SKUs, that is quite an additional cost. Which could easily weaken the cert process even more.

 

[cireza]

You're getting poor quality experiences now in relation to PC ports. How is adding an additional SKU or two going to make that any worse?

Because I will have to buy the new SKUs to have the better quality experience ? And if those new SKUs did not exist, developers would have put more efforts into optimizing their game ?

 

[viHuGi]

I guess Sony has won the console war so definitively that MS feel they need to not even compete anymore and just go PC.

Man MS is this directionless mess. So much short term-ism and not an ounce of foresight.

Did you see Windows Phone? It was like this until they just drop Nokia all together, same for Zune etc... They really don't know what they want to do and they always change ideas sooner or later.

 

[barit]

Yeah no thanks. I buy my console at $400 so I can keep it for the next 6-7 years and don't have to worry about any upgrades. I'd rather spend all the money in new games than in new "hardware". Keep that shit to PC where every year is a new dick-measuring contest happens when a new $999 graphic card gets released.

 

[HyperCubed4]

Isnt this pretty much the Steam Machine paradigm? Fixed hardware with a specifically controlled upgrade/replacement path...

Valve made SteamOS to be used on their Steam Machines, but it's hard to compete with a company with 30+ years experience making operating systems. Microsoft has the OS down to a T, whether it fits people's preferences or not.

Conversely, Steam is arguably one of the best digital stores for video games. Huge library, game recommendations (that actually make sense), a community where people can talk about games and shitpost about Half-Life 3, etc.

If Microsoft can create a better digital games distribution service on the PC and overthrow Valve, it would be fuckin' huge.

Damn E3 is going to be crazy this year

It is, isn't it?

Nintendo: new console, I'm speculating it will be

Spoiler

primarily a handheld, with an optional handheld-to-console streaming feature

. Possibly a game changer.

Microsoft: amalgamating console and PC gaming into one, truly making it an all-in-one console.

Sony: The purest games console, may or may not have the most first-party games.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

There is only one New-3DS/New3DSXL with a single game that is exclusive to the new platform.

Apart from that, was the 3DSXL faster than the original Fugly 3DS? or was the 2DS faster than the original hardware?

New 3DS is faster and I believe has a better battery life. Look up videos on how Hyrule Warriors performs on the old 3DS compared to the new one.