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[mcrommert]

The reaction i'm seeing here to this is baffling.

Lets say you like having a console that lasts for 4-6 years of a generation like it always has...nothing changes

Lets say you want to upgrade 2-3 years into the generation for slightly better graphics? You can do that and still play with everyone on the older consoles

Next generation all of last generations games will continue to work

You don't lose anything...some people will gain something

 

[GopherD]

The difference is that mobile game takes at most 6-12 months to develop so development starts 0/1 iterations behind what the released product will be on. Games take alot longer than that so games will be designed for models 2 iterations in the past, excluding PC ports of course.

They are talking UWA that scales according to hardware. If it's truly scalable, then you will find that devs will switch to hardware power quite easily.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

If Sony doesn't follow suit and stick to Gens its gonna make things a nightmare for devs.

 

[family_guy]

Well, they won't have my support. I buy dedicated video game hardware to avoid having to worry about updating for five or six years. If this is your thing, more power to you, but I'm out.

Technically you don't ever have to upgrade. It's like saying a GTX 660 can't play the same games as a GTX 970. It can, but at lower settings. Your experience isn't diminished. It's just that someone else might have a better one. They aren't talking about making games exclusive to a specific hardware specification.

 

[mcrommert]

That will never be the case, as upgraded models will always have to conform to mass market specs and prices.

Not if they are modular as they seem to be pushing. You can just change out some components

 

[Ninja Sharingan]

Never ever has it worked.

Nah i dont upgrade my phone every other year/tablet/ pc hardware. Deffo wont work.

it never worked because the platform didnt support it. If windows ten on xbox was like steam and it remembers all my purchases and I can buy a new box when I desire it, I am all in! I will buy everything on xbox one and just leave my ps4 for exclusives.

Especially if it supports cross buy with PC etc. It's a no brainer

 

[tuxfool]

You're talking about fragmenting a userbase that is already half the size of its next-gen competitor. As a dev this sounds really bad to me. I don't want to develop for three different XB1 SKUs.

Of course what Microsoft would want to do in a few years time is have universal Windows 10 and Xbox apps so that they would automatically adapt to whatever they run on. Whether W10 gaming will take off in any way in the same scale as Steam remains to be seen. A lot of stuff has to fall into place for this strategy to take off. Bringing more XB1 games to Windows is a good, solid start.

Then target the lowest common denominator. The higher tier models will run it just fine.

Developers that are willing to do this (just like settings on a PC) will make use of this function.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Xbox One 32X.

 

[justsomeguy]

But this just then throws out everything we have come to know so far, how do you know well a game will perform on your hardware?

They can use competing console hardware as a baseline.

OG Xbox One = just below PS4 level.


Or in future Xbox One Mk 3 = PS5 level.

and so on.

 

[Graphics Horse]

You bring the words "do not allow" into it and you lose dev support. Restrictions in your dev environment are not looked on well. Parity clauses for example.

So PSP lost dev support because they restricted how the doubled RAM could be used? Well that's that mystery solved.

 

[GrantDaNasty]

My initial thought is that "sure, we swap phones out every 18 months, why not apply that logic to consoles", 'course phones have contracts and all sorts of other ways to subsidize the initial purchase price.

The bigger problem is, phones can still perform their main functions regardless of what model phone you have, a dedicated gaming system that might not be able to play some game that comes out 3 years later or runs it at 15fps vs the current model which does so at 60...tricky. Very tricky.

 

[Escalario]

So this is how Xbox dies. Good thing I've never bought one. What a waste of time and money it would be.

 

[NullPointer]

Lets say you want to upgrade 2-3 years into the generation for slightly better graphics? You can do that and still play with everyone on the older consoles

Next generation all of last generations games will continue to work

You don't lose anything...some people will gain something

Yes, the impetus will be to push people towards buying several consoles within a generation, and if they don't the new games will underperform.

Its the opposite of a console.

I mean, I see how this is great to those who are frustrated by consoles not having the latest tech, but for me that hasn't held the consoles back from having amazing games.

 

[oti]

The reaction i'm seeing here to this is baffling.

Lets say you like having a console that lasts for 4-6 years of a generation like it always has...nothing changes

Lets say you want to upgrade 2-3 years into the generation for slightly better graphics? You can do that and still play with everyone on the older consoles

Next generation all of last generations games will continue to work

You don't lose anything...some people will gain something

You lose playing the best (for your console) version of a game. You know, what makes consoles consoles to some extent. I understand people not liking this. It's breaking the golden rule of what consoles are and why some people prefer them over PCs. But that's what change does and change is inevitable.

 

[Toadthemushroom]

I don't think your "um" is nearly as convincing as you think it is.

Which is why I said that wasn't the point. But if you want to debate semantics, then sure, because the majority of major 3DS games released after N3DS (in a year's period) have been optimised for N3DS.

And N3DS is far from an elegant solution too compared with iOS/PC/Android/NX/Xbox UWP games, so developers *will* support a scalable Xbox platform. In fact they already are, given their games have to scale for PC hardware.

 

[Styles]

So another load added to the already massive tasks the developers are undertaking?

 

[ironcreed]

I don't see how they could pull this off with a console. I buy consoles knowing that I'll be good for another 5/6 years, count me out of buying consoles if this becomes a thing.

Well, you still could choose a build and have it last for years like people do with PC. The option will just be there for those who want to upgrade sooner. The system will still run most, if not all of the games. It's not like it will become useless just because there are upgrades out earlier.

 

[AmyS]

If handled badly:

 

[outunderthestars]

If Sony doesn't follow suit and stick to Gens its gonna make things a nightmare for devs.

Not really. They will design for the PS4 level of power and the more powerful XB1 skus will just see small things like sharper textures, high framerate, etc.

 

[Orthogonal]

Steam should be the ones really scared about something like this. If Microsoft integrates the XB1 into Windows then third parties can simultaneously launch titles on the console and the Windows store. Rather than waiting for PC ports, we could potentially be looking at a huge uptick in PC support that is Windows store exclusive. Microsoft can put the tools to easily make a PC version of your XB1 game into every developers hands.

Perhaps, but this strategy is also very risky. PC gamers will reject the platform outright if it isnt completely open like PC has always been and the console crowd will be reluctant to choose a platform as segregated as PC in hardware configurations as it is more complicated than they want it to be.

Very difficult balance and I dont know if MS can create a solution that makes everyone happy.

 

[justsomeguy]

Not if they are modular as they seem to be pushing. You can just change out some components

I didn't see any indication of that. There's other Phil quotes where he says he is still committed to the console form factor (I can't find them - so many interviews today!), he cites mobile phones as part of his example. The "simple box that just plays games" model is still valid IMO - if you want a modular box, build a PC

 

[th4tguy]

We will have to wait and see how it is implimented. It is hard to see a world where I'm buying a new video card for my Xbox, requiring me to crack it open and replace. Kind of defeats the perks of a plug and play console.

I doubt it would ever be like that. Prob more like buying a new phone. All of your apps and contacts and pictures and. Stuff carry over but run and look better with the new hardware.

 

[The Real Napsta]

Never ever has it worked.

IPhone, PSP, DSi, n3DS, etc

 

[Dahaka]

So it's the better "Steambox" then? Since I have a PC this will make any Xbox totally obsolete. One less brick. Ok then.

I hope Sony doesn't adopt this model.

 

[cmChimera]

Why on Earth would I want this? I'm really confused how this is getting a positive response.

 

[gelf]

Then target the lowest common denominator. The higher tier models will run it just fine.

Developers that are willing to do this (just like settings on a PC) will make use of this function.

The fear is they won't always target the lowest common denominator certainly not for as long as used to be the case. With no hardware upgrades it's assured.

 

[gaming_noob]

Very confusing plan. Hope their messaging is more clear when they'renready.

 

[mephixto]

At this point in time console hardware cycle is not the way to go, you invest millions in R&D and hardware to ship a console that has a big chance to fail and sticking to it for at least 5 years is no longer an option for MS, Sony or Nintendo.

MS is the first one doing this, I can see the Sony and Nintendo following in the soon.

 

[Nzyme32]

My initial thought is that "sure, we swap phones out every 18 months, why not apply that logic to consoles", 'course phones have contracts and all sorts of other ways to subsidize the initial purchase price.

The bigger problem is, phones can still perform their main functions regardless of what model phone you have, a dedicated gaming system that might not be able to play some game that comes out 3 years later or runs it at 15fps vs the current model which does so at 60...tricky. Very tricky.

They won't end support for a SKU so quickly, just like PCs they will scale. Maybe any console will be supported up to 6 years or something. Totally up to them. I suspect doing it every 2 years so that eventually there will be 3 skus available at any one time - Xbox lite (low end), Xbox medium, Xbox Elite (highest end / latest model).

 

[boiled goose]

I honestly believe this is the future. Unified service platform instead of segregated hardware platforms.

You can still have hardware exclusive games, but accounts should be all tied together. For example, some iOS or droid games only work on tablets or hardware that is powerful enough.

One account is the key.

I think Nintendo especially needs to follow suit with mobile, console, portable.

 

[krang]

Add-on performance-improving hardware hasn't generally worked, but releases of faster revisions in tech products has generally been successful, no?

 

[wapplew]

The reaction i'm seeing here to this is baffling.

Lets say you like having a console that lasts for 4-6 years of a generation like it always has...nothing changes

Lets say you want to upgrade 2-3 years into the generation for slightly better graphics? You can do that and still play with everyone on the older consoles

Next generation all of last generations games will continue to work

You don't lose anything...some people will gain something

Good in theory, but your Xbox 1.5 will be playing Xbox 1 game with higher res and better frame rate, same goes for Xbox 2.0, Xbox 2.5, just like cross gen game.

Games getting hold back by low spec machine.

 

[Hello? This is Hailun!]

Works for Apple. Nintendo has made similar remarks as well.

 

[ironcreed]

I guess this is cool and all, but, I can't lie. I'm starting to feel pretty burned, having paid $500 for this thing just two years ago.

They are not going to abandon it, man. You can still enjoy it.

 

[bishbosh]

This would dissuade me from ever investing in Xbox again. Might as well do the full jump to PC.

It's the same thing, that is their plan - Xbox will be a service, buy the game of console or pc , they don't care either way

 

[Elios83]

The reaction i'm seeing here to this is baffling.

Lets say you like having a console that lasts for 4-6 years of a generation like it always has...nothing changes

Lets say you want to upgrade 2-3 years into the generation for slightly better graphics? You can do that and still play with everyone on the older consoles

Next generation all of last generations games will continue to work

You don't lose anything...some people will gain something

You don't lose anything?!
For this you lose the chance of having big exclusives to the system since it's now all PC. And you lose the chance of developers caring about optimizing code and push the system you have paid for. If it doesn't run well you'll just deal with bad graphics and/or performance or you are forced to upgrade.
These are significant losses for a console user.

 

[outunderthestars]

So it's the better "Steambox" then? Since I have a PC this will make any Xbox totally obsolete. One less brick. Ok then.

I hope Sony doesn't adopt this model.

Honest question: wouldn't that be a good thing for you? I would love to not have to buy so many devices just to play games.

 

[Head.spawn]

If they end up doing hardware refreshes after every 4-5 years, WITH full backwards and forward compatibility, I'll be as happy as a pig in shit. That is the future of a gaming platform (unless it moves towards open, which is doubtful for now) and I can't believe it took cellphones for the logic to click.

 

[gofreak]

You don't lose anything...some people will gain something

See my above post about that.

It's uncomfortable, perhaps, irrational but it's a human truth - that is a big deal psychologically. It's an anxiety that consoles have traditionally shortcutted.

Now I'm not saying this model can't work. In a more granular way it already does with just vanilla PCs. But the model does bring to the surface interesting factors about the value of consoles.

 

[mcrommert]

Yes, the impetus will be to push people towards buying several consoles within a generation, and if they don't the new games will underperform.

Its the opposite of a console.

I mean, I see how this is great to those who are frustrated by consoles not having the latest tech, but for me that hasn't held the consoles back from having amazing games.

You are making a judgement based on zero evidence.

You lose playing the best (for your console) version of a game. You know, what makes consoles consoles to some extent. I understand people not liking this. It's breaking the golden rule of what consoles are and why some people prefer them over PCs. But that's what change does and change is inevitable.

People buy consoles because they are cheap and cheerful (to take a top gear saying). They play all the new games and they are cheap...they also take no knowledge to setup and use

None of that stuff changes

But come on neogaf...we can have an old fashioned freak out about this because Microsoft is trying to CHANGE something and that by itself is terrible

smh

 

[RedSwirl]

So the hardware will still only be manufactured by Microsoft right? If so, I see that as more of an iPhone analogy, but what it ends up feeling like will depend on the frequency of hardware refreshes.

It's possible we could still get a normal-sized console generation between Xbox One and its successor, but when that successor comes out it's simply a continuation of the same OS, game platform, and architecture but with significantly more horsepower. I imagine it being like upgrading from an iPhone 4 to an iPhone 6. Cross-gen games would no longer be released as separate SKUs for instance -- you'd get one SKU that runs differently depending on the hardware version. I expect the transition from PS4 to PS5 to basically go the same way.

This would only mean a PC-like experience if Microsoft actually opens up the software and hardware to a PC-like degree, but this sounds like it's still keeping Xbox closed.

Whatever. If this means Forza, Halo, and Gears on Windows, I'm down.

 

[le.phat]

Phone cycles already piss me off as it is. Getting locked out of 'features' just to promote the latest and greatest model. Maybe Microsoft has a really solid plan for this. Maybe the xbox will be broken up in components so that we can buy 'blocks' to upgrade ?

.....

They will just sell a new box every 2 years, won't they...

 

[sam777]

So this is how Xbox dies. Good thing I've never bought one. What a waste of time and money it would be.

In what way?

 

[Weevilone]

Technically you don't ever have to upgrade. It's like saying a GTX 660 can't play the same games as a GTX 970. It can, but at lower settings. Your experience isn't diminished. It's just that someone else might have a better one. They aren't talking about making games exclusive to a specific hardware specification.

Except to many, the experience is diminished when you know that others are getting more out of the same game. That's one of consoles selling points. You are guaranteed the same experience.

 

[AmyS]

XBone Calcium lol.

 

[Frank Jaeger]

Xbox going on the Steam-Machines path, albeit a lot more prepared!

Glad I'm a pc gamer from the get-go then!

 

[Disaster Nebraska]

The reaction i'm seeing here to this is baffling.

Lets say you like having a console that lasts for 4-6 years of a generation like it always has...nothing changes

Lets say you want to upgrade 2-3 years into the generation for slightly better graphics? You can do that and still play with everyone on the older consoles

Next generation all of last generations games will continue to work

You don't lose anything...some people will gain something

"Nothing changes" is rather naive and hopeful, isn't it?

It changes the fundamental purpose of a console: a system you buy because you know it will be supported and the hardware will be squeezed for the next 3+ years. People buying one at launch don't just do it for the launch games. They do it because they know the console will still be getting games that look better than what the system launched with.

When you add in regular hardware revisions and cross-development between PC and Xbox, you're losing one of the core purposes of a console. Microsoft is already going walled-garden with the Xbox store on Windows, so I don't have confidence this will be a PC utopia, either.

Call me old-fashioned or behind-the-times or whatever. When I buy a console, I want it to be a singular piece of hardware that gets support for the next 3+ years. If not, they'd better make it worth my while and nothing about this sounds worthwhile.

 

[Simply Sami]

My initial thought is that "sure, we swap phones out every 18 months, why not apply that logic to consoles", 'course phones have contracts and all sorts of other ways to subsidize the initial purchase price.

The bigger problem is, phones can still perform their main functions regardless of what model phone you have, a dedicated gaming system that might not be able to play some game that comes out 3 years later or runs it at 15fps vs the current model which does so at 60...tricky. Very tricky.

The phone comparison is silly.

Phones have a more mass market appeal. One iPhone will sell more in its first year than a console will in its lifetime. Even a Samsung phone in its first year will outsell a Xbox.

 

[Metfanant]

I guess nobody will be able to complain about a lack of third parties on the Windows Store. If Xbox One really just ends up a Windows Store only PC it would force everyone to support the store.

Or nobody to support the store...

 

[NullPointer]

You are making a judgement based on zero evidence.

I look at is as common sense, using that hypothetical.

You already see this with the way existing app and OS performance degrades as new mobile hardware comes out.