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[NullPointer]

I am of the opinion that this will potentially set a bad precedent whereby a dev will optimize their game for the newer hardware and the older versions will get the short end of the stick.

This is exactly what will happen.

 

[Lime]

The most important thing:

older titles will remain compatible with the new machines.

finally some backwards compatibility by default?

 

[outunderthestars]

if people buy a new phone every year at around $600, a $349 console is a no brainer when you can trade it in for a discount

New flash: not many people upgrade their phone every 12 months.

 

[Lys Skygge]

Sounds like they want an Xbox branded Steam Machine. Not sure how I feel about it...but at least I no longer feel the need to pick up an XB1 since they want to start bringing XB1 exclusives to PC.

 

[commish]

I am of the opinion that this will potentially set a bad precedent whereby a dev will optimize their game for the newer hardware and the older versions will get the short end of the stick.

PC gamers haven't really had this problem for the last 20+ years.

But tbh, I never understood why MS got into the console business to begin with. In 15+ years, it never really did anything to differentiate xbox from anything else. If it wasn't for Halo, there'd be nothing, really.

 

[gelf]

It's hard to believe that this is the straw that breaks the camel's back for so many people. Not the subscription for online, not the PC style forced installations and memory management, not the PC style constant updates, not the PC style reliance on networking, and not the wholesale redesigns of the OS and store fronts during the generation.

Console style set it and forget it gaming has been dead for years. It's a benefit that hardware can evolve along with the software as long as Microsoft can respect the people that don't want to participate.

For me it's simple. I don't care for the hardware side of gaming, I'm not a graphics whore and I don't see any massive evolution in gameplay thanks to hardware updates either so I hope I only need to buy updates at as large an interval as possible.

My PC is a barely upgraded potato for this reason also.

 

[BearPawB]

So this is good news for you - you save some money by only needing one platform to play the games you want to play.

I mean "save some money" is a bit silly as I will lose money on the transaction.
I definitely got my enjoyment out of it.

I am not saying it is a bad move. It may actually save MS games business in the long run to be adaptable like this.

I am saying there is no reason to have a good PC and an Xbox One. Which is fine....i just wish my actual Xbox One had done more

 

[blodtann]

the problem is that game devs will still have to test their games on all the SKUs though for performance and SKU-specific bugs (because with hardware changes you can never rule those out), which is quite an additional cost.

That's what you have to do now anyways; test on a myriad of hardware platforms for PC. With this you will at least have a known set of configurations to deal with.

AND it wouldn't surprise me of MS will set up a cloud for all the revisions of the hardware for devs to test against (kinda like what they are doing today when testing development for different browsers).

 

[Disaster Nebraska]

That IS the life of a console gamer. 30fps is normal, and on Xbox One you're lucky if it's even 1080p. Optional upgrades sound like a wonderful idea if they can deliver on it in a user-friendly way.

They're not backing down from console development, they're trying to improve the experience and provide people with a legitimate reason to choose the Xbox other over consoles.

Think about what you're saying. If developers fail to use the hardware power or correctly scale their games for a console that lasts 5+ years, I'm certain they will work even harder to scale and optimize for hardware that gets replaced every 2 years....

Use your head.

 

[Graphics Horse]

I am of the opinion that this will potentially set a bad precedent whereby a dev will optimize their game for the newer hardware and the older versions will get the short end of the stick.

There's definitely a risk of that. To begin with though, they'll be interested in still catering to where the majority of the audience is.

 

[mosdl]

I imagine Microsoft's whole goal is making it so the game/system itself does that work, it will adapt based on the available hardware power. Xbox One 2013 is the baseline and then it can scale up from there. If they can achieve that then it's no water off the devs back I imagine, if they can't achieve that then I agree it's a bad idea.

MS doesn't control the software though - the studios use their own engines/etc. Its not like DirectX can do that automagically.

 

[tuxfool]

The fear is they won't always target the lowest common denominator certainly not for as long as used to be the case. With no hardware upgrades it's assured.

Developers want to sell their games to as many people as possible. They're not going to sunset support for older versions immediately.

 

[cheesekao]

PC gamers haven't really had this problem for the last 20+ years.

But tbh, I never understood why MS got into the console business to begin with. In 15+ years, it never really did anything to differentiate xbox from anything else. If it wasn't for Halo, there'd be nothing, really.

PC gamers can fiddle with settings. Console users do not have that option.

 

[deathcab]

Go ahead full steam Ms, kill the xbox brand and give the world back free online. Even worse than kinect, kill it in a fire

 

[driver116]

So they might move to the smartphone/tablet structure of hardware. New device every 1-2 years all devices backwards and forwards compatible with all software.

 

[ironcreed]

With this and all of the recent announcements of Xbox One games coming out as Windows 10 apps, this genuinely feels like the end of Microsoft's foray into the console space.

Except it's not. They are simply evolving an old model and have been making the system more PC-like for a long time now. There will be more Xbox systems than ever, only they are taking that final step to becoming a PC, which is hardly a bad thing.

 

[MrBud360]

Great Halo 6 4K 60fps machine for me!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ceallach]

So in all reality all this means is that they expect pc games to function on the launch xbox one at lowest settings.

I forsee lazy PC ports with poor XBO performance

 

[Raide]

And that's a nice differentiator for traditional consoles.

Not sure what "traditional" really is now. People expect much more from a games console. MS linking everything to Windows 10 opens up a huge market, outside of the traditional games console. If it works, Sony and Nintendo really don't have the same kind of eco-system to just roll into.

 

[D1renegade]

Unnecessary if true...

I guess I'm not a real gamer because I would be hoping for this to fail.

 

[oti]

PC gamers haven't really had this problem for the last 20+ years.

But tbh, I never understood why MS got into the console business to begin with. In 15+ years, it never really did anything to differentiate xbox from anything else. If it wasn't for Halo, there'd be nothing, really.

Yeah. Xbox Live and PS2 online? Basically the same thing.

Spoiler

come on bruh

 

[Bsigg12]

Passing cert doesn't mean much these days quality wise (which affects all console makers) - now imagine cert having to certify multiple SKUs, that is quite an additional cost. Which could easily weaken the cert process even more.

It would likely just be one SKU and the changes that are made are built in from a SDK perspective that allow a game to scale based on what Xbox it is being played on. If they're going to do this, Microsoft in all likelihood will try their hardest to make the transition as simple as possible on the development end.

Also the cert process is to make sure it doesn't compromise the Xbox Live or the Xbox itself. Quality control isn't the point of getting your game certified, that's up to the developer.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

New 3DS > 3DS > DSi > DS

Those are two different generations entirely, and IIRC, the 3DS/N3DS don't improve performance of any DS titles by playing them there versus a DS/DSi.

 

[semiconscious]

Think about what you're saying. If developers fail to use the hardware power or correctly scale their games for a console that lasts 5+ years, I'm certain they will work even harder to scale and optimize for hardware that gets replaced every 2 years....

Use your head.

yup. & it's almost always like this when 'what's possible' meets 'what's probable' ...

 

[Blanquito]

Curious to see how this turns out and if the market accepts it

 

[Lister]

Sony recently used this during a presentation as one of the selling points for PSVR

I'd say they understand why consoles are appealing to people.

You mean lying about the capabilities of their machines?

 

[Coxy100]

Go ahead full steam Ms, kill the xbox brand and give the world back free online. Even worse than kinect, kill it in a fire

Are you drunk?

 

[low-G]

This isn't going to work out well long term for gaming-focused endeavors.

It works on mobile platforms, particularly iPhone, because of how casual the platform is. If shit hits the wall just download a different F2P game.

However, people are either going to stick to more fixed platforms or go full PC gamer. There won't be any advantage to buying a console if it's just an overpriced, poorly configured PC with extra problems PC gamers don't even face.

Not a terrible way to put the bullet in the XBox brand though, which is what they're really doing. They're getting out.

 

[Hello? This is Hailun!]

PC gamers haven't really had this problem for the last 20+ years.

But tbh, I never understood why MS got into the console business to begin with. In 15+ years, it never really did anything to differentiate xbox from anything else. If it wasn't for Halo, there'd be nothing, really.

Xbox Live.

Xbox Arcade.

 

[commish]

PC gamers can fiddle with settings. Console users do not have that option.

No (though I suppose that could be introduced). What I was thinking is that, at the very least, they could offer different settings for the game, meaning the game could detect your hardware and then adjust the visual fidelity accordingly like current PC games do. There would still be a relatively small number of xbox configurations to code for rather than the 10 billion different PC configurations.

 

[Raide]

Curious to see how this turns out and if the market accepts it

Agreed. It could certainly be a interesting shift if they make it work.

No (though I suppose that could be introduced). What I was thinking is that, at the very least, they could offer different settings for the game, meaning the game could detect your hardware and then adjust the visual fidelity accordingly like current PC games do. There would still be a relatively small number of xbox configurations to code for rather than the 10 billion different PC configurations.

This is the more logical route. I don't see them having 30+ random Steam machines from loads of manufacturers.

 

[Darryl M R]

I'm still confused, what makes more sense: building a heavy hitting PC or upgrading your current Xbox One? Microsoft can make a profit either way but I don't know if they are suggesting that one way is better than another. Let's say they get more money if I continue to upgrade my Xbox One but I'm seeing reason to get a PC and ditch my Xbox One.

From all of this it seems like Xbox brand is pushing for people to convert to PC since why would I continue to upgrade my console if I can buy a somewhat future proof PC and gain all of the old "Xbox One exclusives"; this isn't bad. I just want to know if it will pay off for them.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

You mean lying about the capabilities of their machines?

What exactly are they lying about? Wtf?

 

[CosmicGroinPull]

For me it's simple. I don't care for the hardware side of gaming, I'm not a graphics whore and I don't see any massive evolution in gameplay thanks to hardware updates either so I hope I only need to buy updates at as large an interval as possible.

My PC is a barely upgraded potato for this reason also.

Good point. What advantage do PC ports have over consoles other than higher res, framerate and effects? Who's going to upgrade every 1-2 years for that advantage? Oh right - PC gamers. Why would people who have only been on consoles care about those things?

 

[Shin-Ra]

The more I think about it, the more I'm realizing this is the easiest way to discontinue the Xbox brand of consoles altogether and merge it into their Windows platforms.

Had MS released Xbox Two or whatever, and it sold less than estimated, then that damages the brand even more. Hardware refreshes like this will allow MS to refer to the "Xbox Family" and MAUs much easier. There won't need to be major R&D costs for a new piece of hardware because they just have to keep updating components incrementally. It'll allow the Xbox to suffer whatever fate it has infront of it in a way that will be somewhat invisible to the general public, keep hardcore Xbox fans interested (or have them bail out onto the Windows 10 platform where they can play all their XB exclusive games), and so on.

This is a terrible idea from a mass market perspective but that's not what they're aiming for. They're folding Xbox into Windows, and this is kind of a brilliant move in doing it slowly but steady without causing a large amount of waves. It won't sell anything what a Playstation 5 might sell, but that's the point, because by then MS would want to be out of the console game and selling PC boxes at that point, some with the Xbox branding on it.

I always knew XB1 would be Microsoft's last console but the way they're transitioning is kind of brilliant. Well, maybe not from a sales point of view, but in keeping their Xbox brand healthy while trying to attract a new gaming audience for Windows 10? Absolutely.

Tell that to people that bought an Xbone expecting it to be supported like a console for 5 or 6 years!

 

[mosdl]

That's what you have to do now anyways; test on a myriad of hardware platforms for PC. With this you will at least have a known set of configurations to deal with.

AND it wouldn't surprise me of MS will set up a cloud for all the revisions of the hardware for devs to test against (kinda like what they are doing today when testing development for different browsers).

The cost to QA the xbone release goes up, unless MS engineers it so that future SKUs can downclock/etc to the original xbone specs and run 100% like the original xbone (think New 3DS). But that means that games will probably just not optimize anything for the new SKU.

As for cloud, testing games is different than testing browsers - games are in the 10s of gigabytes these days.

 

[kadotsu]

It is shocking how closely MS is following Sega's hardware division's history.

 

[jaypah]

It would be very interesting to see how this plays out. I've wondered for years if this could work in the console space (along with many others) so maybe we'll get our answer.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

You mean lying about the capabilities of their machines?

What are they lying about?

 

[FinalStageBoss]

So steam machines? Lol

 

[Simply Sami]

PC gamers haven't really had this problem for the last 20+ years.

But tbh, I never understood why MS got into the console business to begin with. In 15+ years, it never really did anything to differentiate xbox from anything else. If it wasn't for Halo, there'd be nothing, really.

Utter nonsense.

Xbox 360 was one of the greatest consoles ever. Let's not rewrite history because of how they handled the Xbox one.

I shudder to think what PSN would be like now if it wasn't for Xbox live. Most the things you see on PSN basically came from Xbox live.

 

[pastrami]

PC gamers haven't really had this problem for the last 20+ years.

But tbh, I never understood why MS got into the console business to begin with. In 15+ years, it never really did anything to differentiate xbox from anything else. If it wasn't for Halo, there'd be nothing, really.

To stop Sony from dominating the living room back when they still believed it would be the family hub in the future. Instead, it turns out the future was individual devices like smartphones and tablets, and Microsoft were incredibly late to that party. With the Xbox One reveal (TV, TV, TV), it's like they had a 15 year plan and failed to take into account the trends of those 15 years.

 

[commish]

Yeah. Xbox Live and PS2 online? Basically the same thing.

Spoiler

come on bruh

Live was great, but it's no longer anything that differentiates Xbox from its competitors. People do not buy an Xbox solely for Live. Look at Nintendo - you know exactly what separates them from their competitors. They are not trying to out-Sony Sony. I wanted MS to do something that separated Xbox more from everyone else.

 

[bud23]

I'd imagine they'd view the regular Xbox One as the baseline and then release something that plays games at least on par with the PS4 (if not aiming for better to try and pry at the higher end market).

Probably, but it's incredibly shortsighted.

What happens when, for example, GTA VI is released? Early adopters will need to upgrade their hardware to fully experience what the game offers in the newest version?

Good luck with that

They are ignoring how the console market works

 

[Opus Angelorum]

People seem to ignore that the Xbox One (and PS4) is just a PC, albeit with a closed design and custom OS.

This is an awesome strategy, one that helps the Microsoft ecosystem immensely.

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

PC gamers can fiddle with settings. Console users do not have that option.

Yeah this is where I could see things going wrong on the console end. I can't help but imagine their lower tier console being treated much like the 360 was when cross-gen was a thing. I guess it depends on the difference in power between them and if the market, or even third parties are going to sign off on it. I can't imagine EA or Ubisoft really like the idea of having a new system to add to their ports list every year.

 

[ekim]

Think about what you're saying. If developers fail to use the hardware power or correctly scale their games for a console that lasts 5+ years, I'm certain they will work even harder to scale and optimize for hardware that gets replaced every 2 years....

Use your head.

It's all the same base platform decoupled from the HW. If Microsoft's UWA Framwork/Api is strong enough, I don't see much problems here.

 

[Tenrius]

I wanted to know if Rare Replay would become available on PC and found this:

His prophecy is being fulfilled.

 

[Pankratous]

You mean lying about the capabilities of their machines?

Nothing on there is a lie?

 

[mcrommert]

Tell that to people that bought an Xbone expecting it to be supported like a console for 5 or 6 years!

It will. WTF is happening on this forum. Your xbox one's lifespan hasn't been shortened. There is only another option. There will still be a launch to a next generation which won't be supported by old consoles.