Future PhaZe
Member
salivating at the idea tbh
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Microsoft unifying PC/XB1 platforms, Phil implies Xbox moving to incremental upgrades
- Thread starter dancrane212
- Start date
Roberto Larcos
Member
Mainly, cheaper entry price and guarantee of future compatibility of games.
I paid £420 for an Xbox One, a game, and a Kinect and a controller in 2013. £70 of that (ish) was Kinect, so let's say they'll aim for £350 in the future (same as what the PS4 launched at). That console will almost certainly run GTA 6 when it comes out, and the next Elder Scrolls whenever that rolls around - maybe 2018/2019. I doubt there's a PC you could have put together for £350 (or even £420) in 2013 - that includes input and a brand new triple A game - that will run a triple A title in 2019. Genuinely.
I think PC offers better value for more hardcore gamers. But as someone who doesn't game all that much (I used to more, hence buying on launch), a console becomes a better value proposition. Mainly because the only game I'll pay full-price for is FIFA or Pro Evo, and everything I'll wait for PC-esque sales on, or just play through my GWG / EA Access backlog. I can't save enough money to justify a gaming PC if I'm not spending it in the first place.
Dinky Dino
Member
This is true but consoles did have one advantage. Their apis were to the metal while ms never bothered releasing a similar api for windows until vulkan.
For some reason the i3/750ti DOES outdo the consoles across most multiplats. Though the i3 is the weak point being a dual core vs the 8 core cpus on the consoles and on the xbone that can make use of dx12. I wonder if amd's old bullzoers will fare better than the i3 after dx12.
KingJ2002
Member
Wow... i wouldn't say they're bowing out of the console wars... if anything this move may accelerate things.
An annual upgrade cycle similar to mobile is going to be harder to sell unless new features roll out with that hardware.... and that could be very difficult for developers looking for parity between older consoles... and then there's the gamers who would want cutting edge hardware.
I can imagine Microsoft announcing some leasing program where people can go to a retailer and "upgrade" their console at little to no additional cost to them for a monthly fee.
either way... this is a very interesting move and i'm curious to how it pans out.
as for Sony and Nintendo following suit.... I believe they will do so... if it works for their business model. Sony more than likely to do it just to keep up while Nintendo could do so and even release a new version that has some sort of phone connectivity and sell through mobile companies
An annual upgrade cycle similar to mobile is going to be harder to sell unless new features roll out with that hardware.... and that could be very difficult for developers looking for parity between older consoles... and then there's the gamers who would want cutting edge hardware.
I can imagine Microsoft announcing some leasing program where people can go to a retailer and "upgrade" their console at little to no additional cost to them for a monthly fee.
either way... this is a very interesting move and i'm curious to how it pans out.
as for Sony and Nintendo following suit.... I believe they will do so... if it works for their business model. Sony more than likely to do it just to keep up while Nintendo could do so and even release a new version that has some sort of phone connectivity and sell through mobile companies
TouchMyBox
Member
The reason why the new 3DS is frustrating is because it's hardly supported and it's not that significant of a hardware bump, also it's been released closer to the end of the 3DS' lifecycle and we know that the NX is on the horizon so investing in another 3DS doesn't make much sense for people who aren't the most dedicated for Nintendo fans. I imagine the situation wouldn't be the same in the case of a new Xbox or Playstation.
You sound like a person who doesn't want a console in the first place.
Yeah, the hypothetical yearly release sounds like a really bad idea especially since new PC hardware doesn't come out every year. Upgraded consoles every 2-4 years though sounds alright.
The i3/750ti combo is losing though in recent titles like ROTR.
Crimsonclaw111
Member
Think more minimum specs (original Xbox One) versus recommended specs (upgraded Xbox One).
You'll still run the game and it'll still be on a console you own, but it'll look better in someone else's console.
I'm assuming.
Always-honest
Banned
That seems like the most logical way to go for MS.
People think that an Xbox1 Owner... or an Xbox_X owner is going to have 4 Xbox Models in an 8 year Span?
Even from a Console-Owner-Gamer's perspective a Single Upgrade of PC to something decent will last 4 years (my i7 4770k and r9 290x) as an example.
This has colossul Fail written on it or is another way of killing off the Xbox Console.
SONY and Nintendo do not have to match this...lol
Even from a Console-Owner-Gamer's perspective a Single Upgrade of PC to something decent will last 4 years (my i7 4770k and r9 290x) as an example.
This has colossul Fail written on it or is another way of killing off the Xbox Console.
SONY and Nintendo do not have to match this...lol
Crimson_Gold
Member
Basically, Sony needs to expand its ecosystem to the PC somehow. Having the store available there with cross buy is the only option. Sony will continue to get its 30% cut of the sales and will still have the console presence for the console gamer. Literally almoat the same exact model as Microsoft will have. Both of them are after the same thing.
I likw how this news has completely exposed people's ignorance for the PC market and their complete, irrational and immature loyalty to a brand. This thread is great!
As for the news itself, I like it. Microsoft will finally bring their games to their platform which has the most users around the world (Windows) as well as continue to support those who prefer the console way of things.
Updating hardware cycles could be pretty damn easy. If we use the Xbox One for example, MS sets the Xbox One as the standard for this "family/generation" of Xbox. Then every two years or so, releases an upgraded model that will allow the same games to play at higher resolutions, framerates and features. Meanwhile, those who brought in first can continue to play those same games. Release one more revision at even higher specs (or don't, whatever) and then a couple of years later, it is time for the new generation of the Xbox family.
It mimics what happens in the PC space already and developers will do what they have already been doing; offering scalability in their games and future proofing them for long legs throughout a generation. This method isn't new to consumers. Apple has been doing it for how long now? Samsung? Sony? Everyone?
MS sees that the money is in the software and not the hardware. But offering more options in the console space can be an interesting way of doing things. Software continues to drop year over year in the console space and continues to rise in the PC space. It's time to get on that or really get left behind. Whynotboth.gif?
In a highly technical space such as video games, why are people happy to be stuck with old tech for 8 to 10 years? I don't get it. Will people be happy with shitty gen one VR on old tech for 5+ years? I should hope not.
What happens if MS provide that? Its a box PC, so only as closed as Windows 10 is. Hassle free gaming? Just buy this box and not have to think about endless driver updates, incompatible hardware or viruses etc.
They could potentially bridge the gap...but this is MS we are talking about, so who knows!
tiredheadcrab
Member
Microsoft can basically tell users and developers that when an updated system is released, it will last them 5 years and maybe the max would be 7. So the current version will last till 2018 or 2020. MS can keep developers in check of when hardware will phase out and what to keep supporting. It will still be a closed ecosystem. Developers are already used to building games for different hardware variations on pc but because this is a closed system it will be much easier as they will only be targeting 3 systems about instead of multiple GPUs and CPUs. Many short sighted people here.
MikeE21286
Member
iPhone model for consoles
wonderful103
Member
not for a long time.
this is a myth, even today, despite what they say to you
apis are *thinner* than, like, DX9 was is what they really mean
and DX12/vulkan pretty much remove that advantage
Every pc is different metal, can't optimize each pc configuration.
justsomeguy
Member
Welll hundreds of millions of consoles have sold over the years, so there must be a reason somewhere.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
this would kill the reason to own a console imo. why would you buy an upgradable PC-like xbox at all when you can just buy a fully formed, more open PC? it's got the same issues the steam boxes have. if you strip out the fundamental "console-ness" and also don't have the full functionality of a PC you end up with something that doesn't really scratch any type of itch.
you're either a set piece of hardware that can be developed "to the metal" as consoles currently are...
or you're a PC
i don't see how there is a viable market out there for a hybrid
you're either a set piece of hardware that can be developed "to the metal" as consoles currently are...
or you're a PC
i don't see how there is a viable market out there for a hybrid
Dinky Dino
Member
I can't lie and say I'm not excited about bullshots actual being in game now and not being downgraded into the ground. I just hope ms comes through on making UWP use overlays and injections.
Yup. I've been suggesting this for a bit too.
The Xbox was born as an attempt by Microsoft to keep Sony from challenging Microsoft's absolute monopoly on consumer computing O/S (remember those days?). That war is over.
Now Microsoft is trying to keep pace with Google Android/ChromeOS and Apple iOS/OSX. Xbox as a hardware console does not help them at all with that.
But an Xbox that is a delivery system for Windows 10 games onto the TV DOES because the new strategy from Microsoft is to make Windows 10 the end and be all. MS wants games on the Windows 10 store running on DX12 and it wants them to be playable on as many Windows 10 devices as possible and the XBox will be the TV set top box device for that. The PC will be the desktop device for that. Surface, Win10 Tablets and laptops will be the portable devices for that and upcoming Surface phones will be the mobile devices for that.
Games matter a whole hell of a lot to Microsoft because that is one of the major reasons people buy computers and run O/Ses. Windows 10 games help their cause a hell of a lot by being a reason for people to buy or stick with Windows 10 devices. Xbox Exclusives don't.
XBL is a nice business but MS would much rather have the Windows 10 Store take off in selling games.
The Xbox was born as an attempt by Microsoft to keep Sony from challenging Microsoft's absolute monopoly on consumer computing O/S (remember those days?). That war is over.
Now Microsoft is trying to keep pace with Google Android/ChromeOS and Apple iOS/OSX. Xbox as a hardware console does not help them at all with that.
But an Xbox that is a delivery system for Windows 10 games onto the TV DOES because the new strategy from Microsoft is to make Windows 10 the end and be all. MS wants games on the Windows 10 store running on DX12 and it wants them to be playable on as many Windows 10 devices as possible and the XBox will be the TV set top box device for that. The PC will be the desktop device for that. Surface, Win10 Tablets and laptops will be the portable devices for that and upcoming Surface phones will be the mobile devices for that.
Games matter a whole hell of a lot to Microsoft because that is one of the major reasons people buy computers and run O/Ses. Windows 10 games help their cause a hell of a lot by being a reason for people to buy or stick with Windows 10 devices. Xbox Exclusives don't.
XBL is a nice business but MS would much rather have the Windows 10 Store take off in selling games.
This!!!! Seriously!!! I'm surprised by Gafs reaction so far. This will fragment the user base, multiple hardware version contradicts consoles "closed system" ecosystem, which will hamper devs ability to code to the metal. heck that's how consoles put out games that punch above there weight, did y'all see the Uncharted 4 trailer?
It would be hilarious when several years into next gen when PS5 is cheaper and games look almost as good Xbox 2 version 5, While at the same time blow Xbox 2 version 1 games out the water visually because devs have to make games compatible for multiple hardware versions. Devs will just shoot for the strongest version, but can't truly make the platform sing because it has to be compatible with legacy hardware.
Do you really think that they have not considered all of this? All of the specs will be within a certain range and the games will be optimized to run within that range. But yes, at some point you would have to upgrade. Just as you would anyway, only now it will likely be 2-3 years earlier. Or sometimes sooner if you wish.
hydrophilic attack
Member
I mean this was the obvious next step. This leaked in 2012 already:
Look at the 2015 colunn. Everything they have done since then has been going in this direction. (I even think that the original Xbone DRM plans was a misguided way to tackle license transferral from physical XBO game to digital PC Xbox platform version.) No one should be surprised.
Look at the 2015 colunn. Everything they have done since then has been going in this direction. (I even think that the original Xbone DRM plans was a misguided way to tackle license transferral from physical XBO game to digital PC Xbox platform version.) No one should be surprised.
Even if they released an update every year, there wouldn't be a need to upgrade every time. If moving forward the current version of the Xbox One is the minimum spec box, you could get a new box every 2-3 years to catch up with whatever hardware advancements they have and continue to play every game you own for the system.
Nobody knows. Probably. Perhaps the extra horsepower will be there just to make use of VR, but still be able to play standard XB1 games.
Phil is calculating. This was not a slip, and it didn't go into detail. He's clearly testing the waters by saying this.
Roberto Larcos
Member
And let's see how it runs the next Elder Scrolls / GTA, whenever they come out.
Because the Xbox One and PS4 will be running them.
justsomeguy
Member
Good post.
Yeah it's starting to look like the old case of a 750ti outperforming consoles is starting to not happen anymore. Which is a shame for me as I may have to upgrade.
Nothing of what you said makes sense. They will still have to make a generational cut from time to time. Devs won't build games for a 15 year old machine.
It's funny to see how people are getting angry and irrational at this announcement while it's certainly a good thing.
New Xbox Live with hardware upgrade option? Get xx off bla bla
LordOcidax
Member
This news is going to kill Crapgamer.... thats for sure. lol
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
Ah that's right. IT was the RAM they boosted. Thank you for the info.
If it was the same and was "nothing new", then why the fuss?
Thing is, the idea of console iterations isn't exactly new but it doesn't exactly have a good track-record, either. SEGA was the last major console manufacturer to try it with the 32x and CD and those flopped HARD.
The idea of splitting first-party development between a PC and console is new. The idea of replacing (not simply enhancing or supplementing) console hardware every year or two is new.
justsomeguy
Member
Nope.
As an Xbox owner you can buy an Xbox console and know that it'll play all the games for the next (however many) years... 4? Longer I hope.
Same as the PC upgrade scenario you mention.
Lister
Banned
The issue with Tomb Raider is the frame buffer. the 750ti doesn't have enough VRAM. It's also BELOW Spec, not quite Xbox one (VRAM specially), and definitely below PS4 spec - and yet it's bene BEATING both systems for a while now on a lot of games.
According to Eurogamer, running the game at a bit lower settings than Xbone, will net you 30 FPS @ 1080p.
Ninja Sharingan
Banned
we shall see
And how will they generate revenue from Live Gold? If anyone with a PC that has the right specs now has an "Xbox", they can't exactly get away with charging for online anymore.
tiredheadcrab
Member
I like PlayStation 4 turbo.
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
This really seems like it could be the next big innovation in terms of consoles like how online or integrated hard drives were. It has the potential to move the console hardware space forward in big ways WITHOUT alienating those that choose not to upgrade. The possibility is very exciting and Microsoft could be onto gold here -- the execution and reality is what we have to wait for.