Tizoc
Member
But what do you think of morrison's doom patrol and gaiman's sandman?
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Neil Gaiman, Alan Moore or Frank Miller: Who you with?
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Secret Fawful
Member
I really don't understand why sanity is considered a measure of talent or quality.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Idk about Doom Patrol but Sandman will always be readable till the end of time.
PanSexual_Peacock
Member
Gaiman for me.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Alan Moore for the first question.
But he's an asshole.
So Neil Gaiman for the second.
But he's an asshole.
So Neil Gaiman for the second.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
It's cannon? Huh. Didn't expect that.
zorlaczerohero
Banned
Moore had the biggest impact, Gaiman is the better writer, Miller's not in the same league as either to be honest, as much as I like his work it doesn't show the imagination that Moore and Gaiman have.
I think Miller might be the most influential solely for TKDR, which was such a massive shock to the industry. Creativity I would probably give to Moore.
As to who I would want to write a comic for me, if it was Moore in his prime then yes. If it's right now, then definitely Gaiman. Moore kinda lost me later on with stuff like Lost Girls (literally erotic fairy tale fanfiction) and League vol 3, which from what I've seen is basically "Old Man Yells At Cloud: The Comic."
I think Gaiman and Moore are both great. I would probably give the edge to Moore because Watchmen and V really blew my mind when I was younger.
I think TKDR is the coolest comic in the goddamn world when you are 13 years old and once you've grown up you kind of realize it completely falls apart in the second half. Hard to deny how ground breaking it was at the time, though. And, of course, modern Miller is an ultraconservative nutbag.
As to who I would want to write a comic for me, if it was Moore in his prime then yes. If it's right now, then definitely Gaiman. Moore kinda lost me later on with stuff like Lost Girls (literally erotic fairy tale fanfiction) and League vol 3, which from what I've seen is basically "Old Man Yells At Cloud: The Comic."
I think Gaiman and Moore are both great. I would probably give the edge to Moore because Watchmen and V really blew my mind when I was younger.
I think TKDR is the coolest comic in the goddamn world when you are 13 years old and once you've grown up you kind of realize it completely falls apart in the second half. Hard to deny how ground breaking it was at the time, though. And, of course, modern Miller is an ultraconservative nutbag.
Out of the bunch, Frank Miller had by far the most impact on comics. He spawned the most imitators (for better or worse), the most enduring original character and his versions of existing characters define them to this day (in Daredevil's case, the character would likely be cast aside and forgotten a long time ago).
Alan Moore's most important work goes beyond the realm of comic books, so while it had impact on the way comic books are viewed by the general public, you won't see much of Watchmen in modern comics books.
Trying to weigh the creativity of artists working in different media is just silly.
Frank Miller isn't a great writer, but when he could still draw, he made some of the most visually striking comic books around - and when I say that he's not a great writer, I really mean that he doesn't write traditional prose. While his writing is simplistic, it's evocative and well-suited for visual storytelling.
Alan Moore's most important work goes beyond the realm of comic books, so while it had impact on the way comic books are viewed by the general public, you won't see much of Watchmen in modern comics books.
Trying to weigh the creativity of artists working in different media is just silly.
Frank Miller isn't a great writer, but when he could still draw, he made some of the most visually striking comic books around - and when I say that he's not a great writer, I really mean that he doesn't write traditional prose. While his writing is simplistic, it's evocative and well-suited for visual storytelling.
Oh yeah, dude. Year One is canon, so it sort of comes with the territory. Even Ed Brubaker's excellent Catwoman series calls back to Selina's past as a hooker, as well as several other Catwoman stories.
Batman's first meeting with Prostitute Selina was actually just explicitly referenced in one of the most recent Batman issues.
Cute moment but damn do I hate the implication of Selina having had to work as a prostitute in her former life. So ill-fitting and unnecessarily demeaning for that character.
Chained Prometheus
Member
Only one of these three writers can say they wrote my favorite sentence of all-time, so I gotta go with Neil Gaiman here.
Don't get me wrong, I love Moore and Miller's past works, but Gaiman's the guy I feel most aligned with from a storytelling perspective. I also want to give a shoutout to Grant Morrison too.
BTW, my favorite sentence of all time is from Gaiman's fairy tale story, Stardust:
It might not seem like much, but it's a line that's always stood out to me and resonates with me whenever I get to the final part of the book.
Don't get me wrong, I love Moore and Miller's past works, but Gaiman's the guy I feel most aligned with from a storytelling perspective. I also want to give a shoutout to Grant Morrison too.
BTW, my favorite sentence of all time is from Gaiman's fairy tale story, Stardust:
Not forever-after, for Time, the thief, eventually takes all things into his dusty storehouse.
Frozenprince
Banned
Stardust is great.
Grenouille
Member
Alan Moore.
He was the first writer that blew my mind, when I was around 15 or so...
I'm thankful to Gaiman for having such a good taste in books, introducing me to some great writers like Gene Wolfe, Chesterton etc.
The most creative? Alan Moore is certainly the one who more frequently writes in different genres. Not sure if you would define that as creativity, but there is that.
He was the first writer that blew my mind, when I was around 15 or so...
I'm thankful to Gaiman for having such a good taste in books, introducing me to some great writers like Gene Wolfe, Chesterton etc.
The most creative? Alan Moore is certainly the one who more frequently writes in different genres. Not sure if you would define that as creativity, but there is that.
I have to admit, while I've read a bit of Morrison, I've never read Doom Patrol. Would it hold up if I read it now? Or is it one of those "You had to be there" kind of comics?
All great.
Moore - without Watchmen, I would have not read any comics (started reading at 35 years old...). Also Killing Joke, etc
Miller - TDKR. Daredevil. Batman Year One
Gaiman. Sandman - what an epic.
Mostly that order for impact on me. Taking a step back, impact on comics and the direction they went...Miller. Impact on comics to legitimize the medium as "art/adult"...Moore. Talent across mediums and best epic/series, Gaiman.
Moore - without Watchmen, I would have not read any comics (started reading at 35 years old...). Also Killing Joke, etc
Miller - TDKR. Daredevil. Batman Year One
Gaiman. Sandman - what an epic.
Mostly that order for impact on me. Taking a step back, impact on comics and the direction they went...Miller. Impact on comics to legitimize the medium as "art/adult"...Moore. Talent across mediums and best epic/series, Gaiman.
Agreed. It was a joy to read. The movie is fairly solid as well.
Good Omens was one of the most enjoyable reads for me, and American Gods was probably Gaiman's most impressive work.
Frank Miller is certainly unsavory politically, but in his defense he was strongly in favor of Clinton and anti-Trump.
https://twitter.com/frankmillerink/status/792525006613848065
RoyaleDuke
Banned
Alan Moore, the other two aren't even in the same league.
Gaiman made an horror story. FOR KIDS
Puck Beaverton
Banned
Moore is like so far above those other two it isn't a contest.
Plus Moore is the better type of crazy than Miller.
Plus Moore is the better type of crazy than Miller.
You never played Resident Evil?
Grenouille
Member
yeah, but it was still a fairy-tale/fantasy. Moore writes historical fiction, science-fiction, fantasy and now he is even trying to be James Joyce from what I hear...
Tizoc
Member
Imo it still holds up thanks to the characters and the crazy shit that goes on in stories
In all honesty Gaiman can be pretty one note. He has good ideas for setting but a large part of his plots revolves around "seemingly average everyman meets eccentric possibly magical girl and enter a fairy realm beyond his understanding". Richard and Door. Newton and Anathema. Tristram and Yvaine. Shadow and Wednesday (who subs for the magic girlfriend). Fat Charlie and Spider (who subs for the magic girlfriend). The Narrator of Ocean and Lettie, but they're kids. If you like that setup, and I do, then all his novels will seem appealing but it's pretty repetitive at a distance.
He works best in vignettes (which made up the bulk of Sandman) and short stories (Fragile Things and Smoke and Mirrors, Trigger Warning was not very good though).
Frozenprince
Banned
Doom Patrol holds up for the same reason Excalibur holds up.
It's fucking peak insanity, in this case peak Morrison insanity, at it's finest.
Doctoglethorpe
Member
Watchmen is the greatest graphic novel of forever, and swamp thing is second only to batmam, and usually better written, so yeah, Alan.
Wulfric
Member
1. Moore: I had to read Watchman twice in order to comprehend what was going on. His work made me realize comics can be much more than just kiddie fare. Excellent but crazy.
2. Gaiman: I was introduced to Sandman through the huge Absolute Sandman books. That series is a bit disjointed, but it ties together really well in the last two books. The variety of artists is great too; sticking to one would be a bit boring. American Gods is pretty good too.
3. Miller: Daredevil is fine. I've never really liked the character. I haven't had the chance to read his Batman work yet.
2. Gaiman: I was introduced to Sandman through the huge Absolute Sandman books. That series is a bit disjointed, but it ties together really well in the last two books. The variety of artists is great too; sticking to one would be a bit boring. American Gods is pretty good too.
3. Miller: Daredevil is fine. I've never really liked the character. I haven't had the chance to read his Batman work yet.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
I still need to see how Gaiman handled Miracleman to be sure.
Moore, in part because he not only did it first, he inspired Gaiman and helped him in the industry. Gaiman to do the comic, because he's more controlled now than Moore is. Moore's spent so long being a Snake Priest that he's not as certan about what works and doesn't work on the page anymore.
Now, which one would I rather get high with? Moore, all the way. We could call to the darkness as our beards intwined.
Now, which one would I rather get high with? Moore, all the way. We could call to the darkness as our beards intwined.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Moore is a genius
Well except Grant Morrison
Anyway #Gaiman i know that Alan is the more prolific but Neil Gaiman all the way.
Watchman IMO gets corny at points. I liked Miracleman much, much more, even if it didn't end so cleanly. Moore's work on that comic soars and wrestles with its own implications, whilst Gaiman's is staccato and analytical.
Gaiman is especially well read and emotionally satisfyingly, Moore brings the conviction. I think what pulls Gaiman over the edge for me is that he has the good fortune (or intuition) to have artists that are especially well suited to his stories. He was really fucking lucky to have Mike Dringenberg and Malcolm Jones on those early issues of Sandman to define the series because Sam Keith could not draw a subtle line in that comic whatsoever.
If I might mention some other "serious" contemporaries, Rick Veitch's self published stuff went places that Moore, Gaiman, and Miller dare to tread.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Gaiman gets comic people to read novel. NOVELS. He's in the championships.
Gaiman, both in that I prefer his comics, and I think he's the person who I'd most likely hang out with (if I was anywhere that cool).
But I'd have to be crazy to deny that Moore had the bigger impact on the industry. Short of Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, and maybe one or two others, Moore has had the most impact on the industry ever. He certainly has had the most impact on the direction it took in recent years.
But I'd have to be crazy to deny that Moore had the bigger impact on the industry. Short of Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, and maybe one or two others, Moore has had the most impact on the industry ever. He certainly has had the most impact on the direction it took in recent years.
slightconfuse
Banned
How are you going to leave out Morrison bro??
MistakenMobius
Member
Miller wrote Martha Washington goes to war which seems to be the future history of the united state so Miller because he became insane knowing the future.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Garth Ennis
No seriously, I can't stand any of these sooooo
Just_myles
Member
Probably Gaiman. He seems less insane.
I agree. Hickman will be the one in a decade.
Have you read Manhattan projects? Amazing series.
I agree. Hickman will be the one in a decade.
Have you read Manhattan projects? Amazing series.
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
I'm with my boy Grant, thank you very much.
Ahem, but I'll answer the questions anyway.
First, which creator do you think had more of a impact on comics and who do you think is the most creative.
Both Moore and Miller seriously outclass Gaiman in this area. I'd say it's Miller, for better or worse. Watchmen was a seminal book but outside of that, I don't think Moore's other books had the same impact on the industry. Nothing to do with their quality of course. But with Miller we have: Daredevil, Ronin, Wolverine, Dark Knight Returns, Year One, Born Again, Sin City, Hard Boiled, 300, etc. His influence wasn't necessarily good (see: the 90s) and he's a crazy old fuck but he has my eternal respect.
Most creative: Moore. He's the pre-Grant Morrison and he's better at non-superhero stuff.
Second, you have a chance to have one of those three men write a comic based on your idea, which man do you pick?
Gaiman. I don't want to talk to either Moore or Miller. At best, I'd send them a note thanking them for their work, which they would probably set on fire.
Side note: the only Sandman that matters is Sandman Mystery Theater.
Ahem, but I'll answer the questions anyway.
First, which creator do you think had more of a impact on comics and who do you think is the most creative.
Both Moore and Miller seriously outclass Gaiman in this area. I'd say it's Miller, for better or worse. Watchmen was a seminal book but outside of that, I don't think Moore's other books had the same impact on the industry. Nothing to do with their quality of course. But with Miller we have: Daredevil, Ronin, Wolverine, Dark Knight Returns, Year One, Born Again, Sin City, Hard Boiled, 300, etc. His influence wasn't necessarily good (see: the 90s) and he's a crazy old fuck but he has my eternal respect.
Most creative: Moore. He's the pre-Grant Morrison and he's better at non-superhero stuff.
Second, you have a chance to have one of those three men write a comic based on your idea, which man do you pick?
Gaiman. I don't want to talk to either Moore or Miller. At best, I'd send them a note thanking them for their work, which they would probably set on fire.
Side note: the only Sandman that matters is Sandman Mystery Theater.
ProfessorLobo
Banned
Gaiman by far.
Alan and Moore have made a lot of good but insanely overrated stuff.
Alan and Moore have made a lot of good but insanely overrated stuff.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
It's not even a contest. The old bastard could write a breakfast menu and it would still be compelling and groundbreaking.
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