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[Alanae]

Does Geert have any supporters on GAF?

There was this guy in a thread a while back.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1344189#post230356676

 

[Jasup]

I only eat molten cheese, so it doesn't matter much to me

/edit: This is also about being known for cheese....like Swiss cheese, there it's even in the name + it's used to describe things as well.

hint: "Swiss cheese" doesn't exist in Europe, including Switzerland for that matter. It's entirely an American thing.

 

[RustyNails]

Don't know but I've read quite a few from Holland saying if you don't want to integrate then leave. One or two are in this thread.

I know what you're talking about. Just waiting for folks to come out in support of this fascist.

 

[Lucumo]

hint: "Swiss cheese" doesn't exist in Europe, including Switzerland for that matter. It's entirely an American thing.

Yeah, I should have used quotation marks but you are wrong if you think "Swiss cheese" doesn't exist in Europe.

 

[Aiii]

Yeah, I should have used quotation marks but you are wrong if you think "Swiss cheese" doesn't exist in Europe.

Nice piece of Dutch Gouda you posted there.

 

[dakun]

Yeah, I should have used quotation marks but you are wrong if you think "Swiss cheese" doesn't exist in Europe.

yeah "Swiss cheese" is definitely a thing. In Germany Emmentaler is often refered to as "Schweizer Käse"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmental_cheese

 

[Jasup]

Yeah, I should have used quotation marks but you are wrong if you think "Swiss cheese" doesn't exist in Europe.

You are referring to Emmental I suppose, which the American "Swiss cheese" resembles. It is just one cheese variety that originates from Switzerland. Usually when people in Europe refer to cheese as being Swiss it designates the country of manufacture, not type.

But coming back to topic.
Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu was granted access to speak in France in a pro-Erdogan referendung rally, his rhetoric seems to follow the official line of the Turkish government.

"The Netherlands, the so-called capital of democracy, and I say this in quotation marks because they are actually the capital of fascism...," remarked Cavusoglu during his visit to the northeastern French city of Metz.

Cavusoglu was addressing a gathering organised by a local Turkish association in Metz ahead of an April 16 referendum on whether to amend the Turkish constitution. The Turkish government is campaigning for a ”yes" vote, which would considerably increase the powers of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

http://www.france24.com/en/20170312-turkey-france-foreign-minister-referendum-rally-eu

yeah "Swiss cheese" is definitely a thing. In Germany Emmentaler is often refered to as "Schweizer Käse"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmental_cheese

#NotAllEurope
Ok, then it exists. Funny that I've lived in Germany and didn't come across that.

 

[Lucumo]

You are referring to Emmental I suppose, which the American "Swiss cheese" resembles. It is just one cheese variety that originates from Switzerland. Usually when people in Europe refer to cheese as being Swiss it designates the country of manufacture, not type.

Cheese with holes = "Swiss cheese". There are tons of expressions, like "Your wall is full of holes, like a Swiss cheese". Or after someone is being shot several times: "They made Swiss cheese out of him".

But coming back to topic.
Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu was granted access to speak in France in a pro-Erdogan referendung rally, his rhetoric seems to follow the official line of the Turkish government.

http://www.france24.com/en/20170312-turkey-france-foreign-minister-referendum-rally-eu

Yeah, read that on Reuters. I really wish the EU would act more like a political bloc, especially the Western/Northern part.

 

[gutter_trash]

That does not mean that they support the PVV. Rotterdam's mayor, Aboutaleb (PvdA, labour party), has said the same for example.

pretty much, painting regular Dutch people who are angry at these Edrogan supporters as fascists is kind of a big face palming on the part of the bleeding hearts who want to take a knee to anyone who doesn't want to integrate

after 2 or 3 generations, why wouldn't one intergrate already?

and then rally for a quasi-dictator Edrogan?

Edrogan is a jerk

 

[Napalm_Frank]

I have a feeling stuff like this will be a nice boon for Wilders next week.

 

[gutter_trash]

I have a feeling stuff like this will be a nice boon for Wilders next week.

that is exactly what Edrogan wanted and what Putin wanted

 

[TheRealTalker]

The whole orange thing is lol

they are basically making tons of OJ
the Netherlands should counter with some Turkey meals

Just popped in this thread.

So, is globalisation officially dead yet?

No actually it re-enforces that we are moving into the path towards it


bumps in the road is just the experience and reactions that are symptoms of the said change

 

[Kinyou]

pretty much, painting regular Dutch people who are angry at these Edrogan supporters as fascists is kind of a big face palming on the part of the bleeding hearts who want to take a knee to anyone who doesn't want to integrate

after 2 or 3 generations, why wouldn't one intergrate already?

and then rally for a quasi-dictator Edrogan?

Edrogan is a jerk

Yeah, telling the people who are hardcore nationalistic for Turkey, that they should probably go to Turkey, isn't that outrageous.

 

[TatteredHat]

There's a limit to what even the most staunch supporters of multicultural society will tolerate, and this is one step too far.

The people who were protesting last night should just go (back) to turkey, they'll probably be happier there.

And no I'm not voting for the PVV, Wilders is a demagogue.

 

[air jordans for dogs]

Don't know but I've read quite a few from Holland saying if you don't want to integrate then leave. One or two are in this thread.

Whats wrong with this?

 

[paradise_circus]

I can't comprehend how the turkish people can't see that the AKP is simply provocating. No friendly country goes batshit insane because they received a "no". Instead of persuading the opposite side with reason they just simply insult them in a fascist manner. I know that the turkish people saw an enhancing of their society for many years under Erdogan and its AKP. I also know that the former leading parties were elitist assholes and that the recent years are tough for muslims and it was always tough for brown people but it is way too easy to see what the Erdogan really wants to achieve and I'm sad that so many followers are just blind right now.
People should never be loyal to their political leaders. It should work vice versa.

 

[gutter_trash]

I can't comprehend how the turkish people can't see that the AKP is simply provocating. No friendly country goes batshit insane because they received a "no". Instead of persuading the opposite side with reason they just simply insult them in a fascist manner. I know that the turkish people saw an enhancing of their society for many years under Erdogan and its AKP. I also know that the former leading parties were elitist assholes and that the recent years are tough for muslims and it was always tough for brown people but it is way too easy to see what the Erdogan really wants to achieve and I'm sad that so many followers are just blind right now.
People should never be loyal to their political leaders. It should work vice versa.

Turkey is anitgonizing Europe and in turn dealing with Russia.

Both Russia and Turkey have made a deal concerning Syria's partition. Both hate Europe

Edrogan is a shit disturber and a dick

 

[Kinyou]

I can't comprehend how the turkish people can't see that the AKP is simply provocating. No friendly country goes batshit insane because they received a "no". Instead of persuading the opposite side with reason they just simply insult them in a fascist manner. I know that the turkish people saw an enhancing of their society for many years under Erdogan and its AKP. I also know that the former leading parties were elitist assholes and that the recent years are tough for muslims and it was always tough for brown people but it is way too easy to see what the Erdogan really wants to achieve and I'm sad that so many followers are just blind right now.
People should never be loyal to their political leaders. It should work vice versa.

That appears to be the only move in Erdogans playbook.

This is how he fights for the referendum in Turkey:

In a speech this month, Mr Erdogan said those voting "no" would be "siding with the coup-plotters", a reference to the attempted military overthrow last July.
Alluding to the Kurdish militant group the PKK, he added: "The separatist terrorist organisation says 'no'. Those siding with them say 'no'."

Other government officials, like the notoriously brash mayor of Ankara, tweeted that "all of the traitors say 'no'", adding a picture of opposition leaders and the exiled cleric the government blames for orchestrating the failed coup.
Penguen seized on the rhetoric. The message from the government is clear: you're either with us or with the terrorists.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39064657

 

[norinrad]

Don't know but I've read quite a few from Holland saying if you don't want to integrate then leave. One or two are in this thread.

Most politicians also say this, though they try to make a long story out of it, while Wilders just says it out loud.

Trump I will bomb the shit out of ISIS.

Hilary American lives and interests must be protected around the world.

Basically same thing when you think about the end game.

 

[Pomerlaw]

There's a limit to what even the most staunch supporters of multicultural society will tolerate, and this is one step too far.

The people who were protesting last night should just go (back) to turkey, they'll probably be happier there.

And no I'm not voting for the PVV, Wilders is a demagogue.

Exactly, there is a fucking line, and one of them is if you shit on your country of adoption and support an asshole dictator then maybe you should go live under the dictature.

 

[D4Danger]

Don't know but I've read quite a few from Holland saying if you don't want to integrate then leave. One or two are in this thread.

Don't really see the problem here. Europe is very welcoming and tolerant and if you still can't integrate maybe you should just fuck off. I don't think we need to keep bending.

 

[Hoo-doo]

All I know is that i'm now jonesin' for a nice turkey club sandwich.

 

[Kayhan]

All I know is that i'm now jonesin' for a nice turkey club sandwich.

With a glass of orange juice no doubt.

 

[Funyarinpa]

Circulating Turkish social media is footage of a bunch of disgruntled Turks proclaiming "We don't recognize this flag!" and setting fire on...

Yeah.

 

[chromatic9]

Don't really see the problem here. Europe is very welcoming and tolerant and if you still can't integrate maybe you should just fuck off. I don't think we need to keep bending.

A few have quoted me now saying this. I wasn't proposing if people don't want to integrate they should stay or even asking the question. I was replying to someone else with the possibility that a few may side with Geert Wilders integrate or get out tweet, of course many might just agree with Wilders on this point only.

The people quoting me asking what's wrong with kicking out foreigners such as Turkish Muslims, the answer is with you and what constitutes lack of integration. If you want to list or define reasons then go right ahead.

 

[Stereogatari]

The leader of the opposition agrees with AKP's stance.

One of the leading figures of the opposition party also said it was a ploy by Germany and Holland because they want the yes vote to win in the referendum.

Even the Secular Turkish politicians are going full retard lel

Don't really see the problem here. Europe is very welcoming and tolerant and if you still can't integrate maybe you should just fuck off. I don't think we need to keep bending.

Funnily enough it's the same "non-integration" that happens in Turkey itself. Rural Turks migrate to the big cosmopolitan cities and stay amongst themselves. So even within Turkey itself these people do not integrate.

 

[Condom]

Circulating Turkish social media is footage of a bunch of disgruntled Turks proclaiming "We don't recognize this flag!" and setting fire on...

Yeah.

Poor france haha

 

[Veidt]

Circulating Turkish social media is footage of a bunch of disgruntled Turks proclaiming "We don't recognize this flag!" and setting fire on...

Yeah.

Morans.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

Circulating Turkish social media is footage of a bunch of disgruntled Turks proclaiming "We don't recognize this flag!" and setting fire on...

Yeah.

I mean....that still is the dutch flag, just the wrong angle.
I doubt anybody will care though. Nobody in Europe gives a shit about flags.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Circulating Turkish social media is footage of a bunch of disgruntled Turks proclaiming "We don't recognize this flag!" and setting fire on...

Yeah.

Why are they burning a French flag? And seems hard to burn actually.

 

[Theorry]

Always find it funny to see people burn flags or walk over it, People here really wont care of will be offended lol.

 

[Kabouter]

First of all, being located in the Europe is kind of important when accepting new members. What is more, PKK has a long history of disputes and conflicts which haven't been resolved. I am not even going to touch the subject of Northern Cyprus. I wonder how accepting a barely-Eu continent country with ongoing conflicts is rational to you.

Turkey was in the "arms of danger" long before EU was formed. And no, if Turkey was a member of EU, it would be in the bottom of the living standards and human rights. It would also be the most different as far as the culture and religion go. Give me that list of EU countries which are less fit to be part of EU than Turkey is.

It wasn't for Cyprus though, which unlike Turkey is wholly in Asia. Pretty much agree otherwise though.

 

[Caayn]

Circulating Turkish social media is footage of a bunch of disgruntled Turks proclaiming "We don't recognize this flag!" and setting fire on...

Yeah.

They do realize that we in the west tend to care less for symbols such as a flag than they do in Turkey?

Also if you want to make a statement by burning a flag, at least burn it properly. Such a weak flame will only trigger my laugh.

 

[Rien]

Burning our flag? For real? I really dont know anybody who will feel offended abt this.

 

[Elfotografoalocado]

It's the same as Trump. Lots of rural and religious Turks support him.

Lets be honest, Turkey had no chance to join. There was a time Turkey would have done its best and complied and be european, but too many EU members have had an irrational hatred for Turkey.
And to put it bluntly, it is because Turkey is a majority Muslim country.

The prejudicial rejection these countries posed, has driven Turkey right into the arms of danger. Turkey would have been a better member than a number of EU countries I can think of.

That is, hadn't it become a dictatorship.
That said, most Eastern European countries in the EU also are.

 

[ClosingADoor]

That is, hadn't it become a dictatorship.
That said, most Eastern European countries in the EU also are.

Can you point out these Eastern European dictatorships? Belarus is not in the EU and is the only actual one. I guess you could make a case for Hungary going the wrong way. But besides that?

 

[TatteredHat]

They do realize that we in the west tend to care less for symbols such as a flag than they do in Turkey?

Also if you want to make a statement by burning a flag, at least burn it properly. Such a weak flame will only trigger my laugh.

They should burn the oranges they were stabbing before, that'd make for a real statement.

 

[Hoo-doo]

They should burn the oranges they were stabbing before, that'd make for a real statement.

Wooden shoes?

Come on man, this shit writes itself.

 

[Lucumo]

Wooden shoes?

Come on man, this shit writes itself.

That would be a good idea. They should also import them from the Netherlands first.

 

[Sony]

I agree with the approach of the Netherlands in this matter.

However, doesn't the Netherlands have an assosiation agreement with Turkey, allowing dual nationalities for Turkish citizens ánd pardoning them from integration to Dutch culture? Given this assosiation agreement, the Netherlands handled wrongly. They have an agreement with Turkey that Dutch Turks can be Turkish and that they don't have to integrate, why are they surprised that they act Turkish and don't integrate?

 

[ClosingADoor]

I agree with the approach of the Netherlands in this matter.

However, doesn't the Netherlands have an assosiation agreement with Turkey, allowing dual nationalities for Turkish citizens ánd pardoning them from integration to Dutch culture? Given this assosiation agreement, the Netherlands handled wrongly. They have an agreement with Turkey that Dutch Turks can be Turkish and that they don't have to integrate, why are they surprised that they act Turkish and don't integrate?

Yes, we have an agreement. But that just means that we don't force Turks coming here to follow the integration lessons and such. We can still expect them to integrate on their own over time, since we are not talking about people who just arrived here, but people who have been here for decades or are simply born here.

Of course the agreement is an old one also, and signed at a time we expected the Turkish immigrants to go back home after a few years, but things went differently. Which is fine, but if the 3rd or even 4th generation puts Turkey first instead of Holland, that is not a very healthy attitude from them.

Edit: police breaking up a demonstration about this in Amsterdam tonight. Apparently there were around 250 people and in the evening some refused to follow police orders. Seems they got a bit wet after a water cannon was used. 6 arrest, among 1 for shouting nazi stuff and doing a nazi salute. Protest was at Plein (Square) 40 - 45, named after the German occupation of World War 2.

 

[YourMaster]

To be honest, this part is actually what bothers me. Namely, I do not believe for a second that our current government would have said "No" to this if (1) we weren't following suit of other European countries and (2) if it wasn't just before our general elections. We didn't dismiss their desire to come here and speak immediately, we backed out on an agreement which we shouldn't have agreed to in the first place. For what? To boast that you have a spine?

'We' did not simply back out of an agreement. The dutch government from the very beginning said they did not like it, and did not support it. They did not straight up ban them from coming, it's a free country after all, but when they would come they would not get the regular diplomatic support, which is already practically unheard of.
However, they kept in contact because they did not want to have public safety endangered, and kept in talks about location, numbers and the sort to not get radical vs. liberal Turks fighting on the doorstep. However, at one point Turkey reached out to the Turkish community to all show up at the consulate to 'protest', which is not only a direct provocation, but leaves no other response than to stop it, as that would cause riots for sure. The government can under no circumstance allow foreigners in that willingly come to cause trouble on such a large scale.

Now don't get me wrong, I can hardly watch Rutte speak because I'm so sick from all the transparent campaign rhetoric after nearly 5 horrible years of governing, but I can't see this having played out any other way if this were to happen a month after the election. This won't sway me in any way to vote for him, but Rutte handled this incident just fine.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Agreement was not the right word to use. Unless the news article I'm reading is incorrect, the Dutch government initially stated that they would rather not have this political agenda occur on Dutch ground, but would have to take measures to make sure order is sustained if the meeting does go on. The next day they decided to cancel that and refuse the Turkish minister of foreign affairs access to Dutch grounds, though the dutch government states that this was because the Turkish government was reaching out to the community to protest. Did this reach-out happen early in these events? I remember reading that Turkish people were asked to protest because the Turkish minister was denied access. Then later the police deported Turkish Minister Kaya, who was on her way to the consulate and was in Rotterdam, though I assume this was because of the protests that had started.

Kaya had nothing to do there. She wasn't even supposed to be there, and her traveling to Rotterdam was simply a provocation from Turkey after their other minister was denied landing rights.

 

[YourMaster]

Agreement was not the right word to use. Unless the news article I'm reading is incorrect, the Dutch government initially stated that they would rather not have this political agenda occur on Dutch ground, but would have to take measures to make sure order is sustained if the meeting does go on. The next day they decided to cancel that and refuse the Turkish minister of foreign affairs access to Dutch grounds, though the dutch government states that this was because the Turkish government was reaching out to the community to protest. Did this reach-out happen early in these events? I remember reading that Turkish people were asked to protest because the Turkish minister was denied access. Then later the police deported Turkish Minister Kaya, who was on her way to the consulate and was in Rotterdam, though I assume this was because of the protests that had started.

The reaching out to protest happened before the Dutch government withdrew permission for the foreign affairs ministers plane to land yes. So in short:

T: We'll come to campaign in your lands, even if it is against our own laws to do so.
N: We'd rather not, we won't support it, but as long as you do it safely ok then.
T: Everybody, come have a rally at the consulate.
N: That's crossing the line, now you're not welcome at all anymore.
T: We'll come anyway, with multiple cars if we have to. Everybody come and protest.
N: Get out.
T: No you are the Nazi.

 

[SolidusDave]

The flag was expected but that oranges thing is still so hilarious.

I love it when ignorant little-minded people believe they would be able to offend their "enemies" in the same ways they themselves get offended oh so easily.

 

[BrassDragon]

I'm glad Denmark has our back but silence from other EU-countries, particularly Germany, is super disappointing.

Apparently Turkey can just bully and blackmail a member country without challenge. Oh well, bring your empty insults, ineffectual sanctions and state-sponsored riots, Erdoğan. Our oranges can take it.

 

[Imp the Dimp]

I'm glad Denmark has our back but silence from other EU-countries, particularly Germany, is super disappointing.

Apparently Turkey can just bully and blackmail a member country without challenge. Oh well, bring your empty insults, ineffectual sanctions and state-sponsored riots, Erdoğan. Our oranges can take it.

Germany has a huge Turkish community (the biggest in the world in fact outside of Turkey), the majority (60% as of 2015) of which votes AKP. It's a sensitive topic over here. And if we're being honest, Merkel's unconfrontative style has proven to be extremely efficient in virtually every matter so far, I doubt she's gonna change it up now. Erdogan would likely benefit from Germany showing hostility towards Turkey, as Turks in Germany whether AKP voters or not seem to take offence in people passing judgement on their or their parents's home country. There was a really good "Die Zeit" article on that yesterday but I can't really be bothered to translate.

Turks on average are a relatively poorly integrated minority in Germany, subject to xenophobia, prejudice, disadvantaged at school compared to German kids, same with the job market. I live in Berlin's most notorious district (born here too) and while I don't support it, I can sort of see why many Turks have a rather defensive stance on these political matters. Many Turks grew up seeing their German class mates and coworkers eclipse their own success seemingly effortlessly, at which point many (rightly) started to believe the German society has double standards. I'd certainly grow sceptical of a country that discriminated against me and it's not unprecedented to see economically and socially deprived people fall for authoritarian propaganda like Erdogan's.

Retorting to Erdogan's rather crude provocations might just not be the best way to go about it right now. Merkel is playing it very carefully and it remains to be seen just how far she'll allow Erdogan to go, but in the long run, providing for a better integration of Turks has got to be a priority if you want to get their minds off of AKP. Offending their home country will accomplish the exact opposite I'd wager.

 

[Madness]

I'm glad Denmark has our back but silence from other EU-countries, particularly Germany, is super disappointing.

Apparently Turkey can just bully and blackmail a member country without challenge. Oh well, bring your empty insults, ineffectual sanctions and state-sponsored riots, Erdoğan. Our oranges can take it.

Germany is always self interested first. They have a large Turkish population and have a deal with Turkey to stop refugees from crossing etc. No way they can afford to make them mad right now. These turkish morons in Netherlands are only going to increase the popularity of Geert Wilders. Just watch. It is crazy how persecuted these Pro-Erdogan Turks feel too. I remember in a past thread here, someone said it was historical Turkophobia when people wouldn't say shooting down Russian jets as a good thing.

 

[YourMaster]

Fair enough. I retract my initial statement, though I wonder why you would rally up a protest if you're allowed to speak.

They wanted a big thing, not just speak in their own consulate. The venue they hired changed their mind when it became apparent to become a public safety hazard, and they were not getting their way in making the consulate thing a massive gathering.
Plus, they wanted to provoke the dutch government, they wanted conflict.

 

[Gangster Bastard]

It has little to do with history. Or with outsidership, plenty of EU members come from formerly controverisial or adversarial backgrounds to EU countries. That is not a problem at all.

Denying genocide, oppressing citizens, denying human rights, and occupying Cyprus are some of the major roadblocks as to why Turkey's EU entry are raising concerns throughout EU citizenship.

Sure, the European Union is a peace project first and foremost, it's purpose is to bring together former adversaries. But there is a fundamental difference here. If I wasn't being clear enough, Turkey is not really seen as a part of Europe. This is an existential question for the EU. The border can't keep on expanding forever.

I'm sure there are those who look at Turkey's turn towards autocracy with sigh of relief knowing that we can finally bury the idea.