Castef
Banned
"Me want Kiefer Sutherland".
"But... the budget is already..."
"ME WANT KIEFER SUTHERLAND!"
"oook..."
-
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New Nikkei articles shares some information about the situation at Konami
- Thread starter Blablurn
- Start date
"Me want Kiefer Sutherland".
"But... the budget is already..."
"ME WANT KIEFER SUTHERLAND!"
"oook..."
I disagree with the first 2 points but that's my opinion. I want to say that I completely disagree with the last point though.
If the engine is never used again it is Konami's fault for not making the games to use it, and also it's Konami's fault for greenlighting the engine in the first place if they were planning to slowly exit the console gaming business.
Kojima may be blamed (unjustly imo) for spending a lot of money for MGSV, but he can't be blamed because Konami greenlit a new engine they ain't planning to use again.
Palette Swap
Member
A. You don't really get to define there's a single real matter in the article. There's at least two very big subjects: why Konami reacted that way (overspending and drinking that mobile kool aid) and how they did (being utter shits). I've seen the former discussed a lot, I was reacting to one of these posts and trying to give some additional context given budget history and the fact that Yen/USD conversion at current rate is misleading.
B. That's the central matter: it was unexpected to Konami's top management.
AusRoachman
Member
I really feel people should boycott mgs 5 day one just to teach these guys a lesson. Am I correct in thinking hideo already gets his salary and no bonuses etc? Essentially all day 1 money goes straight to Konami .
I would love if people just waited a week or 2 and discounts and show these idiots how dumb they are.
Realistically mgs series is now dead so the future of the franchise is already set, regardless of how well this game does.
I would love if people just waited a week or 2 and discounts and show these idiots how dumb they are.
Realistically mgs series is now dead so the future of the franchise is already set, regardless of how well this game does.
It breaks my heart to hear this. To me, Konami is one of the powerhouses i grew up with and one of the pillars of everything i love about japanese game design. They are home to some of my most favourite franchises ( MGS, Silent hill and Suikoden (!) castlevania ) and while a lot of these franchises have suffered during the transition to HD, i always supported them financially while hoping for a return to form.
What i'm reading here today is totally unacceptable, and I will no longer support Konami in any way ( financially ). I'm gutted because i'm really stoked for MGS5, but i'm cancelling my pre-order because this. So disappointed to learn this.
What i'm reading here today is totally unacceptable, and I will no longer support Konami in any way ( financially ). I'm gutted because i'm really stoked for MGS5, but i'm cancelling my pre-order because this. So disappointed to learn this.
Surface of Me
I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
While I'm sure that MGSV will reach 3 million easily, let's not pretend like both Witcher 3's and Bloodborne's marketing weren't both excellent and contributed to their respcted success. Not only were they excellent, but they were expensive, both were easily more marketed than their respective predecessors(Souls series comparison for Bloodborne). Witcher 3's marketing budget was 35$ million dollars. http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2015/06/10/report-the-witcher-3-budget-was-67-million/ I doubt Konami will be willing to put a similar push behind MGSV.
MGSV might not have the same success as Bloodborne and Witcher 3 relatively. I'm not saying this to try to discredit MGSV. Rather I think that saying "Yeah these titles sold because there is no competition", is doing a massive disrespect to both marketing teams. Also, it is a flawed perspective to look at how MGSV will do commercially.
I'm not sure if this has been covered but the shittiest thing is that in the article,
it says that there was this "Facebook Incident" which happened during 2014.
An ex Konami employee mentioned his/her re-employment on Facebook and several Konami workers pushed the "Like" button. Those people who pushed the Like button got transferred,
which included an executive manager who was admired by many subordinates.
it says that there was this "Facebook Incident" which happened during 2014.
An ex Konami employee mentioned his/her re-employment on Facebook and several Konami workers pushed the "Like" button. Those people who pushed the Like button got transferred,
which included an executive manager who was admired by many subordinates.
I Stalk Alone
Member
I guess kojima didn't want to end up doing ! Duty
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Except you'd essentially be proving Konami right that console games aren't worth it for them anymore.
It's nigh impossible to teach Konami a lesson with your wallet here.
shinra-bansho
Member
I didn't see where I attributed blame to any particular party.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Whoa... that's fucking evil.... Or maybe just deluded.
That's like your gf freaking out because you liked some other girls' posts.
I agree. It's horrible. Konami is Soviet Union.
It will takes much longer for this game to be discounted than 2 weeks.
Kojima and his team poured 5+ years of their lives into this, it would be unfair to dismiss all that hard work in a futile attempt to upset Konami.
A better idea is to buy the game and then when the next entry bombs, Konami get a painful reminder of how good they once had it.
The matter is definitely the draconian approach of Konami's management.
Also how exactly was the budget unexpected for Konami's management?
Weren't they approving it year by year?
It's not like Kojima was spenting from his own budget all these years and suddenly he went with the receipts and said 'here's how much i spent, please pay up'.
You are right about that. Let me rephrase and say that it was a clarification before someone points fingers about the engine cost then.
Funny how a lot of people here are absolutely certain the 80M figure is too much, when we don't even really know how massive the game actually is.
And compared with the MGS4 budget, it's really not that strange. But this has been said a lot of times before in the thread and apparently ignored too.
Also funny how people value a random developers opinion so much when he hasn't worked on this title (does he work in the Japanese industry? I honestly don't know). So his opinion isn't really worth that much either at this moment.
That being said, work conditions are atrocious at Konami, this really sucks.
And compared with the MGS4 budget, it's really not that strange. But this has been said a lot of times before in the thread and apparently ignored too.
Also funny how people value a random developers opinion so much when he hasn't worked on this title (does he work in the Japanese industry? I honestly don't know). So his opinion isn't really worth that much either at this moment.
That being said, work conditions are atrocious at Konami, this really sucks.
Sure it's possible. Konami is only interested in making money. They're not really out to make any point. If MGSV bombs there is no victory for Konami. They will have lost money. If MGSV makes a ton of money and is a huge success, they'll just take those profits and dump it into investing into other things which aren't MGS and aren't console games anyway. Just like how Capcom takes profits from Monster Hunter games and invests them into a bunch of online services and mobile business expansion. That's how it is in Japan these days for most companies. There is no philosophical or ideological battle being waged with the wallet here. The companies don't give a fuck, and consumers who think they do are just deluded.
SpaceDrake
Member
Actually, just about everything coming in now is suggesting that it's 95%+ accurate. Konami's (console/traditional game) workplace is deeply, probably terminally, dysfunctional. We're hearing about it now because realistically, it's unlikely matters can continue in this fashion.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
This. Especially considering they took a huge risk delaying it to give us a better game.
Having said that, the excessive merch is something I'll probably stay away from.
OuterLimits
Member
I miss the Konami that made the great Suikoden and Vandal Hearts games. Sad to think some that worked on those games are now working security.
Surface of Me
I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
Did you not just here elaborate on his point?
Karatechop250
Neo Member
Yeah but all this isn't considering advertising for MGS5.
we make jokes but I'm sure people are disappointed to see what's been happening with a lot of our formerly revered or (formerly existing) game companies. It's hard not to look at all of this and apply it to some kind of hell in a handbasket worldview
Earthpainting
Member
Yeah, it would just validate their decisions, which is the opposite of what you'd want to do in this scenario. The lesson you could teach Konami is supporting both Kojima and his send-off to Metal Gear. It'll show them effort and vision can get rewarded in sales, which is probably the only metric they care about right now.
This is also a likely outcome however.
hydrophilic attack
Member
If we boycotted MGSV to make a point and the game bombs as a result, then surely that would only make it that much harder for Kojima to find someone willing to fund whatever he wants to make in the future. I don't see how that would make any sense to do if you're a Kojima fan.
This isn't really the first time anyone has said bad things about Konami management. It's not really a huge expose or anything like that. Even back when the Suikoden creator left Konami, he talked about how garbage the management rules in the company were. Because he officially left the company -before- Suikoden 3 shipped, the company rules were that he had to be scrubbed from the credits entirely. No one on the team liked it, but they couldn't do anything. That's why Suikoden 3 has no scenario writer credit.
If people want to seriously boycott Konami because they think it's a shit company with shit practices, then not buying their products will make them lose money. That's a loss for them. They don't gain anything from being "right" about console games not selling. If they already invested 80 million into a game and they don't make it back, that's them losing in business.
If people are afraid of making them "right" about some totally pointless point and buy the game anyway, and it is a huge success, then they make a ton of money and win at business.
What was this again?
Never mind, just found the answer from above and simply WOW.
"An ex Konami employee mentioned his/her re-employment on Facebook and several Konami workers pushed the "Like" button. Those people who pushed the Like button got transferred,
which included an executive manager who was admired by many subordinates."
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Even if MGSV is a surprise smash hit and they keep MGS around as a revenue stream, they'd do it on the cheap anyway. Kojima and his 80m budget aren't coming back. That's why there really is no way to vote with your wallet.
MGS as we know it IS dead, and it's not coming back
until the Trolljima stinger is revealed after MGSV's closing credits
It read like that to me.
Regardless how the game fares financially, nothing is going to change the direction that Konami has decided to take. We're way too late in the game for that to happen, and with the changes that has been made throughout the year, they want to push this out as soon as possible so they can make the transition properly.
Konami wants to focus on Pachinko and Mobile for the coming future, and there really isn't much that we as consumers can do anything about. If you want to buy the game, buy it because you want to play the game - not to send a message, because that isn't going to be received in a way that you intended.
Konami wants to focus on Pachinko and Mobile for the coming future, and there really isn't much that we as consumers can do anything about. If you want to buy the game, buy it because you want to play the game - not to send a message, because that isn't going to be received in a way that you intended.
I think this should be added to the OP.
FlutterPuffs
Member
Christ mate the least you could do is to not make him sound like a WW2 Japanese stereotype.
Castef
Banned
FlutterPuffs
Member
It was too close to it lol.That was not a japanese stereotype.
That was a child.
I do agree with you. I love Kojima, I think he got shafted badly by Konami, but that was a bloody high budget for an MGS game
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Also, considering the development of Fox Engine and how that is already helping another Konami franchise (PES) successfully, I would not say that they irresponsibly dicked around.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Proving a point with a wallet is essentially to say that the consumer wants to prove the company's strategy wrong. Konami clearly views console as a bad strategy. But failing to support MGSV will only confirm their strategy, not rebuke it.
But as I said above, MGSV doing well would encourage Konami not to shove MGS in the back of a drawer, but it won't bring Kojima back and it surely won't reverse their almost-total withdrawal from the console space.
I agree with you that buying MGSV is trivially giving them money or not, and will have no effect on their strategy.
Castef
Banned
Callibretto
Member
If the game sold badly, Kojima will have no leverage with publisher when he's trying to gather money for his next game. No publisher on earth will give him 80 million dollar to make new IP if MGS V end up losing money.
Last Hearth
Member
$80 million by April means by the time it ships the total would have gone over $100 million, and that doesn't include the marketing budget which will probably be another $100milllion.
When you consider how many $1 million mobile games they can make for that amount, and how much quicker then can start seeing the return on investment. It really makes very little sense to invest that much money into one game.
When you consider how many $1 million mobile games they can make for that amount, and how much quicker then can start seeing the return on investment. It really makes very little sense to invest that much money into one game.
Consumers trying to prove a point with their wallet never works. That's a fallacy in itself. There are too many moving pieces and business is always projected so far in advance that there is never any actual impact. If you boycott something because you think that you will change anything, you're usually wasting your time. If you boycott something because you don't want a company to have your money because you oppose something they do, that is always worthwhile. Don't expect anything to change, but value where you put your money.
Obviously the whole kerfuffle within Konami with KojiPro and the changes to their structure and planning for the future is a big reason enough, but if the game has already cost $80 million then that must explain why the game has been so poorly marketed, and it would also mean that what Rita Muranaka was supposed to have said (although she said that her comments were mistranslated and misrepresented) about Kojima's overspending being true. What duckroll said though sounds about true, it doesn't seem like Konami will continue on with the Fox Engine so despite the $80m including the development of that, it sounds like they want to just put it down to a one off and never to happen again.
The Cartographer
Member
Surface of Me
I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
Xbox One DRM reversal disproves your point tbh.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
You can prove points with your wallet. Mostly blunt Economics 101 messages like "I want/don't want products like this in the future". Clearly, nuance like "you shouldn't have dumped Kojima" isn't something that can be communicated through a message of poor sales.
funkystudent
Member
Makes me wonder what dark, depressing hole Konami tossed the director of the original KP in house MGS:Rising game in.