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New XCOM 2 previews/hands-ons

I don't know what to think. I was looking towards a new XCOM and I played the shit out of the first one and the original, but I'm being put off by all this talk about TIME LIMITS and HARD HARD HARD and SUPER STRESSFUL and EVERYBODY DIES. Especially time limits, which I hate in just about every video game ever. I'm old and tired and I'd just like to play a fun squad-based tactical game. :( The lack of controller support also hurts couch gaming, although I could go for a Steam controller.
 

Lanrutcon

Member
Preview looks amazing. Gonna need to rush Dragon's Dogma before this comes out.

As for timers: I will Cheat Engine/Mod that shit out without any hesitation. I'll play at my own damn pace.
 

Sblargh

Banned
I think RPS put it the best (hopefully), it's not a *harder* game, but you have to approach it with a different mindset.

You are not the first and last line of defense against invasion; you are the weird bunch of people who think that challenging a technologically superior foe who already won the war is a good idea. You'll have to be ready to sacrifice soldiers and make tough calls; but that's part of the thing. Playing Long War I realize how much EU made your soldiers feel a bit too special; they're soldiers, they will die. Yeah, they have names, nicknames and quirks, but in a war like this, where you are clearly the underdog, you are suppose to avenge the fallen misfits and not upgrade your special ops professionals into victory.

RockPaperShotgun said:
At first, I thought the game might be too difficult, with spikes that seemed to require grinding for resources to overcome, but I’m becoming convinced that I was thinking about my approach all wrong. If an objective calls for the destruction of a specific object or facility on the map, it’s sometimes necessary to use two squad members as a decoy, drawing aliens away from the target, while others get the job done. Those decoys are expendable.



Dying for the cause is often the only way to advance the cause and, hideously, I find myself totting up the resource costs to replace sacrificed soldiers against the benefits of a successful mission that requires their sacrifice. The future of humanity is at stake, after all.

I’ve found myself ordering soldiers to flee across city blocks in an attempt to get back to the evac zone while a sniper stays in place on a rooftop trying to take down pursuing enemies, knowing that she’s cut off from escape. The existence of objectives that encourage extreme risk-taking and that require the maintenance of a safe route back to the evac zone creates unfamiliar situations and outcomes.

With my new ruthless tactics, I’m enjoying more success but even my victories often look like failures as I throw more rookies into the meatgrinder. I’ve navigated the difficulty spikes by ditching familiar tactics and standard measurements of success, and learning to think like a desperate resistance leader rather than the commander of an organised military unit.

I don't think it will be more stressfull than Enemy Unknown already is, but I do feel that while customization options create more unique characters, they will be more expandable.

Preview looks amazing. Gonna need to rush Dragon's Dogma before this comes out.

As for timers: I will Cheat Engine/Mod that shit out without any hesitation. I'll play at my own damn pace.

It's still a turn based game. You can take an entire day to move if that's your thing; the timer isn't about real life time, it's about "X turns to complete Y objective".
 

bjaelke

Member
I don't think it will be more stressfull than Enemy Unknown already is, but I do feel that while customization options create more unique characters, they will be more expandable.

The memorial wall has also been vastly improved (custom text, pictures etc.) so you can commemorate the fallen soldiers you've grown attached to.
 

Roshin

Member
I don't know what to think. I was looking towards a new XCOM and I played the shit out of the first one and the original, but I'm being put off by all this talk about TIME LIMITS and HARD HARD HARD and SUPER STRESSFUL and EVERYBODY DIES. Especially time limits, which I hate in just about every video game ever. I'm old and tired and I'd just like to play a fun squad-based tactical game. :( The lack of controller support also hurts couch gaming, although I could go for a Steam controller.

I have a feeling timers will be one of the first things to get modded out. :)
 

Falk

that puzzling face
I don't know what to think. I was looking towards a new XCOM and I played the shit out of the first one and the original, but I'm being put off by all this talk about TIME LIMITS and HARD HARD HARD and SUPER STRESSFUL and EVERYBODY DIES. Especially time limits, which I hate in just about every video game ever. I'm old and tired and I'd just like to play a fun squad-based tactical game. :( The lack of controller support also hurts couch gaming, although I could go for a Steam controller.

I think that's really all marketing hype. I don't think XCOM2 can afford to be objectively much harder than the original and Enemy Within. Firaxis isn't out to alienate (a ha ha) the fanbase that they've built up.

Difficulty and marathon modes (Long War-esque) - there's plenty of avenue for that with the more robust mod support.

I have a feeling timers will be one of the first things to get modded out. :)

As for timers: I will Cheat Engine/Mod that shit out without any hesitation. I'll play at my own damn pace.

On that note, I don't think the timers are going to be anything close to impossible. Unless you also modded out the timers in EXALT missions and Meld collection in EU, I honestly don't think you're going to have a problem here. They're there to help pace the game.

But if you really want to, whatever floats your boat and gives you peace of mind, I guess.
 

Lanrutcon

Member
I think RPS put it the best (hopefully), it's not a *harder* game, but you have to approach it with a different mindset.

You are not the first and last line of defense against invasion; you are the weird bunch of people who think that challenging a technologically superior foe who already won the war is a good idea. You'll have to be ready to sacrifice soldiers and make tough calls; but that's part of the thing. Playing Long War I realize how much EU made your soldiers feel a bit too special; they're soldiers, they will die. Yeah, they have names, nicknames and quirks, but in a war like this, where you are clearly the underdog, you are suppose to avenge the fallen misfits and not upgrade your special ops professionals into victory.



I don't think it will be more stressfull than Enemy Unknown already is, but I do feel that while customization options create more unique characters, they will be more expandable.



It's still a turn based game. You can take an entire day to move if that's your thing; the timer isn't about real life time, it's about "X turns to complete Y objective".

No, I mean at my own pace: if I want to slowly advance instead of rushing and giving the game an increased chance to gank my troops, then I will do so. Timers are an ugly way to force a specific play style on me.

Meld was an acceptable way to reward risky play: risk more to gain more. 'Finish in X turns or we fail you" is not.

On that note, I don't think the timers are going to be anything close to impossible. Unless you also modded out the timers in EXALT missions and Meld collection in EU, I honestly don't think you're going to have a problem here. They're there to help pace the game.

But if you really want to, whatever floats your boat and gives you peace of mind, I guess.

Nah, I just suffered very slow meld gain due to my cautious play. Grabbed what I can when I could, but prioritized safety and the mission objective.
 

Anno

Member
I don't really like timers either but most I've seen seem reasonable. I need something to break me out of just inching across the map in Overwatch. And even if you don't make them you still get promotions and loot from the mission assuming you don't all die, so that's something. Certainly understand people wanting to take them out though and I'm sure that mod will exist almost immediately.
 
I don't really like timers either but most I've seen seem reasonable. I need something to break me out of just inching across the map in Overwatch. And even if you don't make them you still get promotions and loot from the mission assuming you don't all die, so that's something. Certainly understand people wanting to take them out though and I'm sure that mod will exist almost immediately.

I just wanted to use the time crisis joke. I think timers need to exist to create tension and risk/reward in certain circumstances. But straight out failing people frequently due to them is pretty lame. I think Enemy Unkown handled it fairly well though, minus the random bomb missions. Just meh.
 

dumbo

Member
No, I mean at my own pace: if I want to slowly advance instead of rushing and giving the game an increased chance to gank my troops, then I will do so. Timers are an ugly way to force a specific play style on me.

Meld was an acceptable way to reward risky play: risk more to gain more. 'Finish in X turns or we fail you" is not.

I'm not sure if you've seen it - but there's a video that discusses exactly that point (and the difference with meld). It's quite interesting...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZAP3c5xikA
(it's the Matt Lees video linked a few pages earlier)


I think the Firaxis playthrough also mentioned that the timers aren't *that* tight, because the specialist can often use their gremlin to finish the mission from range.

But, if the game supports modding this, then I suspect someone will manage to create '100 more turns' or whatever.
 
Damn it I can't watch these previews and realize I got to wait a whole month before I can play it. Someone put me in cryogenic sleep please. :p
 

Krabboss

Member
I don't know what to think. I was looking towards a new XCOM and I played the shit out of the first one and the original, but I'm being put off by all this talk about TIME LIMITS and HARD HARD HARD and SUPER STRESSFUL and EVERYBODY DIES. Especially time limits, which I hate in just about every video game ever. I'm old and tired and I'd just like to play a fun squad-based tactical game. :( The lack of controller support also hurts couch gaming, although I could go for a Steam controller.

The original Firaxis XCOM had a lot of video game reviewers speaking about it that way. On default settings though, that game really wasn't that stressful or difficult. I imagine if you found that game's difficulty fine, you won't have any problems with the sequel.
 
The original Firaxis XCOM had a lot of video game reviewers speaking about it that way. On default settings though, that game really wasn't that stressful or difficult. I imagine if you found that game's difficulty fine, you won't have any problems with the sequel.

Yeah, that's true. Obviously they want to please the Ironman/Impossible audience as well. I'm still interested; I'll have to watch some of the videos and twitch archives.
 

Sblargh

Banned
The original Firaxis XCOM had a lot of video game reviewers speaking about it that way. On default settings though, that game really wasn't that stressful or difficult. I imagine if you found that game's difficulty fine, you won't have any problems with the sequel.

They did release a patch to nerf easy difficulty tho. :p
But I guess they know that the game has a broad appeal; Firaxis is used to making strategy games with the more casual crowd in mind. They are also aware that their games have a more hardcore cult following; therefore, they always put a lot of different difficulties in place, which include not only the 4 difficulties, but also second wave options that make things even easier/harder.

You'll probably be able to play a super easy version of the game without removing stuff like timers that are clearly part of the balance. I imagine a timer missions with timers modded out will be just too much of a walk in the park; the hacking missions I saw featured places that weren't really that well defended, it just that you had to breach it fast (and deal with reinforcements after the hack while out of position because of the compromises you had to do because of the timer).

Remove the timer and you can just camp a meager defense, move one soldier to hack while carefully sorrounding the reinforcement area.
Give the aliens a chance!
 

Mupod

Member
I only play ironman and lost practically nobody in my original normal playthrough of EU. My classic ironman was much more memorable and had some truly intense moments - literally only succeeded because I got an early Muton capture and rushed a single plasma sniper rifle before the base assault. But halfway through it got easy too, was deathless after the enemy base except for when I lost my trusty scout near the end due to overconfidence combined with a misclick.

However in EW I had some trouble with timers combined with some bad luck when certain events dropped. I'm definitely the kind of person they are thinking of when adding timers to objectives. I play so cautiously that it gets tedious sometimes, I'm actually looking forward to the game forcing me to change up my game plan. I was originally just going to jump straight into commander ironman but that might be a bad idea. Either way, not like I'm only going to play through it once.

But yeah on the subject of cautious play - in general it feels to me like they have been constantly making conscious decisions to distance themselves from the plodding, sluggish pace the original 90s game devolves into. Endless base defenses, hide and seek, inventory management, economy etc are what stop me from enjoying that game late in any given playthrough. Whereas my only problems with the new one were mostly related to constant repetition, and now we've got procedural maps and such.
 

Anno

Member
I think the new concealment mechanic will really push aggression as well. It seems pretty important to make that first ambush really count, and it's some time where you can move about with some more freedom than usual.
 

Sblargh

Banned
Well, EU had its thing where it would enter in an spiral. Get to midgame in good shape and the fact that you have good soldiers and a good economy will catapult you into even better soldiers and even better economy and you'll suddenly just be stronger than the aliens.

Curious to see how the mid to end game will be now.
 
The Matt Lees video makes me really hyped for this.
Literally all the changes sound like things that will improve the game for me.
Although I don't have time to do many replays of games like this, I love the way they're trying to make each play-through unique. It'll mean that I won't feel like I'm playing wrong if I deviate from the hive-mind's meta-gamed perfect build order (i.e. rush build satellites and laser research).

It sounds like they want people to have a mixed squad of rookies and veterans. The combat means you need to make risky moves or heroic sacrifices, but the extra health means it's also relatively easy to keep someone alive if that's your priority. I tended to play EW by using a rookie for 'meld-running'.

The not-just-cosmetic character customisation looks great too.
 

Mupod

Member
Well, EU had its thing where it would enter in an spiral. Get to midgame in good shape and the fact that you have good soldiers and a good economy will catapult you into even better soldiers and even better economy and you'll suddenly just be stronger than the aliens.

Curious to see how the mid to end game will be now.

Exactly, I'd say EW even more so with how overpowered gene mods are. The Sectopod buffs weren't enough to keep up. XCOM starts out tough and unforgiving but ends up easy.

Right now I'm only apprehensive about two things in XCOM 2 - bugs and balance. They added SO MUCH stuff I don't see how late game balance is even possible. There are almost certainly going to be some broken-ass overpowered weapon mod combinations and someone will figure them out fast.

There have been quite a few bugs shown in previews and on streams but nothing horribly game breaking. Just hoping it doesn't go deeper than occasional overwatch weirdness.
 
I lost my whole Squad due to being stupid. I was about to win on an exalt mission, and hid 4 of my guys behind a car. A HEAVY shot a rocket and blew the car up killing 3 of my best men. We finished but, the game went south for us. A terror mission went wrong and wiped my best squad out, a very large UFO took the rest of my squads out. After that it was game over. A small squad of rookies had to defend against a base invasion. )=
 

Anno

Member
I wonder if the season pass content is supposed to serve instead of a proper expansion. Firaxis is one of the last bastions of meaty expansion packs, so I hope not. Hoping it's more like the incremental Civ DLC they out out alongside the expansions.
 
Right now I'm only apprehensive about two things in XCOM 2 - bugs and balance. They added SO MUCH stuff I don't see how late game balance is even possible. There are almost certainly going to be some broken-ass overpowered weapon mod combinations and someone will figure them out fast.
Yep. So many skills and perks and random-chance drops and random-chance procs and procedural maps and destructible cover quirks. Could be some real RNG horror and overpowered tactics in the early months. Stuff like the "15% chance to get a free action!" kinda leaves me cold. I like tactics games to be largely predictable.

It's a shame the Long War guys are moving on to their own alien invasion simulator project and not doing LW2, because I felt their balance changes were almost entirely sensible and improved hugely upon vanilla. Especially in terms of introducing a nice rhythm of power/difficulty spikes.

Hopefully modding in-game variables and doing .ini tweaks is easy.
 

Sblargh

Banned
I wonder if the season pass content is supposed to serve instead of a proper expansion. Firaxis is one of the last bastions of meaty expansion packs, so I hope not. Hoping it's more like the incremental Civ DLC they out out alongside the expansions.

I'm half-expecting a customization DLC for everything. Christmas, historical, futuristic, silly, classic XCOM, every other 2K game, super heroes...
 

Akronis

Member
I lost my whole Squad due to being stupid. I was about to win on an exalt mission, and hid 4 of my guys behind a car. A HEAVY shot a rocket and blew the car up killing 3 of my best men. We finished but, the game went south for us. A terror mission went wrong and wiped my best squad out, a very large UFO took the rest of my squads out. After that it was game over. A small squad of rookies had to defend against a base invasion. )=

Terror missions are the games way of checking if you're ready for the rest of the game.
 

Mupod

Member
I'm glad I watched the twitch archive last night - does any of the other content released yesterday feature Jake Solomon?

"65%? MIGHT AS WELL BE A HUNDRED!"
 
Yep. So many skills and perks and random-chance drops and random-chance procs and procedural maps and destructible cover quirks. Could be some real RNG horror and overpowered tactics in the early months. Stuff like the "15% chance to get a free action!" kinda leaves me cold. I like tactics games to be largely predictable.

You just gave me Thracia 776 flashbacks.
 

Lanrutcon

Member
I await all the people talking about removing timers to subsequently complain about the game then being too easy.

Doubt it.

Game doesn't need timers, it already has sentient RNG and enemies that get a free movement turn to artificially bolster the level of challenge. I swear I just missed 6 90% shots IN A ROW.

REALLY.
 
I can't believe people are still whining about the cover scamper.

Frankly, I don't understand how setting up an overwatch ambush on the scamper is all that different from no scamper and letting the squad take all their shots normally. It's like they went out of their way to "fix" the scamper while keeping it in just to hear more whining.

Edit: Actually, Beagle showed in the first mission of his stream yesterday how enemies scampering in its current form is more favorable to the player than having that behavior removed. If the player sets up an overwatch ambush but does not initiate with a shot, and instead lets the enemy pod notice the squad and break concealment on the enemy turn, the player will get the benefit of a round of overwatch shots, and the aliens will merely scamper on their turn without taking shots. This allows the player to effectively have two rounds of shots in a row, the first of which the enemy gets no benefit of cover. If enemies did not scamper, and took their normal turn after a pod is "popped", the player could only get one round of shots in before aliens took a proper turn, regardless of overwatch vs regular shots. All this to say that scampering doesn't make sense as a challenge-increasing mechanic if the player knows what he's doing, so why leave that behavior in?
 

Skunkers

Member
I can't believe people are still whining about the cover scamper.

Seriously. If the enemies didn't start behind cover, you'd waste them all the moment you saw them. That's why even though they're adding a mechanic where you can ambush enemies in 2, once you do it, that's it, they know you are there. Plus 2 seems to have significantly more enemies per level to make up for it.
 
Doubt it.

Game doesn't need timers, it already has sentient RNG and enemies that get a free movement turn to artificially bolster the level of challenge. I swear I just missed 6 90% shots IN A ROW.

REALLY.

But they're balancing the game around having the timers. I could totally see use percentages of abilities and whatnot on the AI increasing based on where timers are to increase tension, etc. Of course, that stuff could potentially be modded along with removing the timers, but I don't think that just removing the timers is going to create a satisfying experience.
 

epmode

Member
That Cool Ghosts/Matt Lee guy on Youtube is kind of amazing. I was apparently subscribed to his channel but I guess I haven't been following him. That's going to change now.

Thanks for the recommendation, thread!
 

ScipiosDefence

Neo Member
That Cool Ghosts/Matt Lee guy on Youtube is kind of amazing. I was apparently subscribed to his channel but I guess I haven't been following him. That's going to change now.

Thanks for the recommendation, thread!

Ha, same here, that video really got me excited for this and made some of the new features that have been added make more sense to me.
 
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