Support NeoGAF

[Rodin]

Yeah and I think this type of thing is greatly exacerbated when it's an open world game you're talking about, specifically one as enormous as this. There's no magic button you can press to fix every stretched texture in the world- you have to actually go through it bit by bit to find any weird artifacts. Even on Scorpio it wouldn't get any easier.

Considering their first goal in QA is to fix actual logic-related bugs I think this type of thing will only see improvement close to the very end of development like you said.

Yeah, pretty much.

I love TAA. Or TXAA. I wish that would be the method on all switch games.

TXAA is pretty taxing. TAA would be perfect and i hope it's going to be "standard" as well.

Temporal sampling works better if the game has access to motion vectors (reduce ghosting), typically with deferred renderers.

Nintendo has been using deferred rendering for Wii U games since the beginning iirc.

I don't even think the majority of this GAF bubble cares all that much about the Switch's hardware just for the sake of hardware- it's all about how easy/likely it could be for multiplats to come over.

Personally (and i can only speak for myself here), the only reason i care is because i want Nintendo games to look as good as they possibly can within what can realistically be done in a tablet form factor given (and given a certain price point), and also because specs can influence game design. Zelda Breath of the Wild was simply impossible to make before Wii U.

About third parties, i doubt i'd buy any on the NS, except for games like Yooka-Laylee and 2D titles, because i like Nintendo's controller layout, c-stick and dpad more for this kind of gameplay. I have a beefy PC and a PS4 Pro for stuff like RDR, GTA, Mass Effect etc.

 

[z0m3le]

The Switch is a little bit thicker, but not by much, maybe 20%. The CPU is also half clock in the switch so there will be some savings there as well.

It's pretty obvious the handheld mode is the base target and console mode is just the easiest multiplication of that target.

Switch is 15mm thick according to Emily Rogers iirc, Pixel C is 7mm, so just over twice as thick.

The dimensions of the tablet is bigger than the screen itself, so the numbers are off, and while it doesn't have a passive heatsink back, it has active cooling.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Personally (and i can only speak for myself here), the only reason i care is because i want Nintendo games to look as good as they possibly can within what can be realistically done in a tablet form factor given a certain (low) price point, and also because specs can influence game design. Zelda Breath of the Wild wouldn't have been possible before Wii U.

About third parties, i doubt i'd buy any on the NS except maybe stuff like Yooka-Laylee and 2D games. I have a beefy PC and a PS4 Pro for stuff like RDR, GTA, Mass Effect etc.

That's fair and I guess majority was a bit too strong of a word. I think the reason a lot of us care about specs is because we want developers to see a lower barrier to bringing more games over, creating a healthier ecosystem, and driving overall more success. Specs are only one part of that equation though- development tools and APIs is a bigger one likely and it seems to be one that they've done well, though it's much harder for us to comment on without really knowing about them.

As for first party games I always know Nintendo will get incredible visuals out of whatever hardware they have. A bit of aliasing in MK8 really doesn't bother me with the game in motion, though it's certainly noticeable in screenshots. But that game in particular already looks like a Pixar movie to me. I don't really know how much further better hardware can take their art style but I'm certainly excited to see it.

 

[calc84maniac]

Personally, the only reason i care is because i want Nintendo games to look as good as they possibly can within what can be realistically done in a tablet form factor.

Do you factor battery life into this?

Even though we probably won't get all the internal specs come January, hopefully we'll at least hear about the battery life then. Might give a bit more perspective to the discussions of power.

As for docked mode, I really wouldn't want them to use maximum clocks if that would give developers an excuse to target those and gimp the portable experience. I think Nintendo made the smart choice when it comes to the power ratio, even if they could have technically used a larger ratio.

 

[Beerman462]

Basically, looking at the design of the device and their decision making, it seems likely that they lowered the clocks to portable mode to an exact speed where power draw and performance balanced for their ideal battery life. Hopefully 5-8 hours. Then when docked you give developers 2.5x the GPU power for the resolution bump, and a bump in some effects. That all makes perfect sense.

The only problem with reading the clock speeds this way is the presence of the fan. It's certainly possible the fan isn't run in portable mode, but given the docked clock speeds and what we know about comparable device (Pixel C) it still seems very unlikely that the Switch would need active cooling when docked to avoid throttling. The throttling for the Pixel C likely had to do with the battery moreso than heat, considering what we've seen from even the Shield TV in terms of heat generation.

So why did they include a fan in a portable? That's not something that they would have done lightly- it's a moving part in an otherwise completely solid state device, takes up a lot of space and adds a good deal to the BoM of the device. I think this is really the pickle we have now.

Maybe it could be due to things like 4x A53s running the OS, or just in case they want to bump up those clock speeds in the future. But it's still an odd decision when it seems like it could have been avoided.

Likely the extra thickness of the switch allows the addition of the fan without sacrificing anything. This makes the dock(stand) just a power/video pass through so that if you took your Switch to a friends house you can hook it up to the TV and still have the fan needed to cool it. Unless they are using proprietary connectors for the dock.

 

[Enduin]

Could switch be a big commercial hit and be sold to the masses... yes it's possible. Those console warriors are the ones that concern me. The negativity surrounding WiiU was like nothing I ever seen. If this console is far weaker and less technically advance than Nvidia shield tv it will have a big negative impact on forums and social medial alike. The day and age we live in that could be bad for business.

Initial negativity from the console warriors online could hurt things and start a negative trend, but that again can be easily overcome by a solid presentation in January. Most gamers even don't care that much about horsepower or are that well informed. If they get caught up in the idea of a transportable console and like the games and features Nintendo showcases it won't matter if there is a super zealous group of people who go on tirades about how pathetic and worthless Nintendo is for producing yet another pitifully underpowered system.

Wii U did not really have any redeeming values that people could pin their hopes to other than it was Nintendo's first HD system. The Gamepad was just this thing that really didn't present any clear cut worthwhile advantages. The initial software lineup and subsequent support was barely there and didn't provide much hope. They did just about everything wrong with it, so it was no surprise the negativity prevailed. The Switch though is on far better footing so far though. It's perception is far more in the realm of the Wii than the Wii U, not that I think they'll recapture that degree of success again.

 

[Beerman462]

Switch is 15mm thick according to Emily Rogers iirc, Pixel C is 7mm, so just over twice as thick.



The dimensions of the tablet is bigger than the screen itself, so the numbers are off, and while it doesn't have a passive heatsink back, it has active cooling.

I wasn't just using screen sizes, although I can see how you might think that. The Switch is still less than a third of the Pixel C in surface area about 28% of the of the surface area. The numbers are going to be fuzzy no matter that, because we don't know how thick the casing of the switch is. Since it's plastic vs aluminum it will be a little thicker most likely.

Either way the Switch is substantially smaller and half the price.

 

[KingSnake]

I wasn't just using screen sizes, although I can see how you might think that. The Switch is still less than a third of the Pixel C in surface area about 28% of the of the surface area. The numbers are going to be fuzzy no matter that, because we don't know how thick the casing of the switch is. Since it's plastic vs aluminum it will be a little thicker most likely.

Either way the Switch is substantially smaller and half the price.

But then you have the screen in Pixel C which is bigger and at higher resolution which factors in the power consumption.

Anyhow, the point is not that Switch could run in portable mode at Pixel C's clocks, but that the difference should not be so big (Switch has less than half of the GPU clock and half of the CPU clock) unless they went for a very cheap battery.

 

[AlStrong]

Nintendo has been using deferred rendering for Wii U games since the beginning iirc.

Don't suppose you recall a source for that?

 

[Beerman462]

But then you have the screen in Pixel C which is bigger and at higher resolution which factors in the power consumption.

Anyhow, the point is not that Switch could run in portable mode at Pixel C's clocks, but that the difference should not be so big (Switch has less than half of the GPU clock and half of the CPU clock) unless they went for a very cheap battery.

The price is the thing though. $250 for the tablet, dock and the controller attachments. That means corners are going to be cut everywhere.

 

[lwilliams3]

Do your own research. I'm done trying to bolster this thing to its supposed fans. I don't think I give a shit anymore.

Heh, is this the first time you ended up defending Nintendo? Anyway, I see where you are coming from. Only the small tablet part is the system, there are the detachable controllers, and there is pricing to consider.

 

[th3sicknness]

The price is the thing though. $250 for the tablet, dock and the controller attachments. That means corners are going to be cut everywhere.

You cant even make that assumption because you have no idea what this will cost and what kind of kick backs they got from Nvidia to make it. We dont know pricing outside of what we think retailers were going to price it.

 

[Donnie]

Pixel C is 9.5" x 7" (10.2" screen)
Switch is guessed to be 5.7" x 3.2" (6.2" screen)

That means a lot smaller battery and less room for passive cooling. Also the Pixel C lasts about 5 hours running a CPU benchmark. Now that's the CPU alone, but it's also running full speed the entire time which won't necessarily be the case when gaming, but you will also have to use more GPU when gaming than you would during a CPU bench. The review was on Anandtech and they tried running some game benches, but the Pixel C wouldn't run them for some reason.

Either way the Switch will have a much smaller foot print than a Pixel C. My math isn't great, but the Pixel is 66.5 sqin the Switch will likely be 18.24 sqin that means the battery in the pixel could be up to three times larger than the Switch. It actually kind of works out that the un-docked mode is 307MHz or a little under a third of the Pixel C clock.

Three times the battery/clock or 1/3rd...Half-Life 3 confirmed Switch exclusive.

Switch is more like 5.8 x 4.2 (that's without controllers obviously) and its much thicker than Pixel C.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

I love when all you have is babble and wishy washy projections as a response. Keep imagining all that it will be a long time before some of that ever happens.

Literally just posted how one could arrive at conclusion after someone said it couldn't be possible. As for evading,my response the day the discussion happened on clock rates and have stuck around since.

For someone asking about humility you're post reeks of a very contrived plea. When it comes to hopes I've knocked down port performance past certain points which the article didn't change much of. To be blunt from your response it seems like the egg is on you, just a little.

For what it's worth I don't hold any ill will towards you pal, something obviously changed in between you getting early info and the final specs being locked in. The same goes for NathanDrake.

The same people currently criticising you both will be the first ones begging you for tidbits of info when it comes time for Nintendo's next system lol. We all enjoyed the info and got a lot of discussion out of it so it's cool.

Anyone notice Thraktor got name dropped in the latest gamexplain video discussing the Digital Foundry clock information?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWHEsLNM82U

Yeah I felt like a proud father although I've only ever read his posts. Great to see his contribution being credited.

 

[z0m3le]

Switch is more like 5.8 x 4.2 (that's without controllers obviously) and its much thicker than Pixel C.

Also active cooling is better than an aluminum back. The gpu clock isn't less than a 3rd(307mhz). Pixel c's gpu is 850mhz and switch is 768mhz. The cpu is pulling 4watts in pixel c (4 A57 cores at 1.9ghz) and only about 1 watt in switch.

From what we do think we know about switch, there is a lot of overhead for heat dispersing. These clocks are likely down to battery life and usable ratio. A 25% upclock in the future would be nice.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

First off, the sky isn't falling, the numbers I was talking about are 2SM @ 307mhz and 768mhz there is no optimism there, just running the numbers and comparing architecture performances, you can ignore it, you can come up with your own numbers, but don't think those are pie in the sky optimism, it's just the cold numbers.

As for the person who posted about that dock, it was me, you are literally replying to me and saying some people when you mean "you" I am speculating on the real possibility that Nintendo is using the USB-C as an expansion port like they have done on many many prior opportunities.

The 4TFLOPs number comes from current nvidia gpu offerings, you can buy a 4tflop gpu for your pc for $199. As for "same tegra tech" Tegra is just a package, there is no difference between GPUs in desktops and inside tegra chips.

I was expecting anything from 435gflops to 750gflops, and for the portable to have the same performance at a lower resolution (of 720p) OH NO, 393gflops! what will we do, that is 10% less than could possibly be acceptable. Optimism is fine to have if you keep in mind that that is the highest we could expect. Now that we know the clocks, it is best to accept the 2SM as the most likely possibility and move forward with that speculation.

If people want to lower expectations further, they are free to do so, but it isn't based on any numbers we have, we know the gpu isn't r700 anymore, if people want to treat it like it is, they should also remember that 360 was 240gflops.

The guy you're replying to does not like anyone even discussing the remote possibility of an SCD or a more powerful dedicated console coming later. I believe it all stems from Supermetaldaves group who always insisted that NX would be a powerful x86 based console. I totally agree with him with regards to SMD but the way he shuts down any kind of positive predication / speculation about the future of Nintendo hardware is incredible annoying to me.

I personally really enjoy your posts and looking at what could be done in the future with regards to possible upgrades using an SCD or even more devices in the family of Switch systems. I'd love to see an SCD released for the Switch which lets you run all the games at native 4k. Like I've said before the more options Nintendo offer the more people they will appeal to and the more hardware they will sell. PS4 Pro sales show that there is a market for that kind of thing.

On the subject of the currently known clocks, almost 400gflops docked really isn't that bad esp when you consider that it's 2x WiiU and then there is the architectural performance gains and the Vulkan / Nvidia custom API / OS efficiency advantages Switch will bring.

People should wait until the Jan event to see games actually running on final hardware before being too down on the systems graphical ability.

 

[10k]

Yeah, pretty much.


TXAA is pretty taxing. TAA would be perfect and i hope it's going to be "standard" as well.


Nintendo has been using deferred rendering for Wii U games since the beginning iirc.



Personally (and i can only speak for myself here), the only reason i care is because i want Nintendo games to look as good as they possibly can within what can realistically be done in a tablet form factor given (and given a certain price point), and also because specs can influence game design. Zelda Breath of the Wild was simply impossible to make before Wii U.

About third parties, i doubt i'd buy any on the NS, except for games like Yooka-Laylee and 2D titles, because i like Nintendo's controller layout, c-stick and dpad more for this kind of gameplay. I have a beefy PC and a PS4 Pro for stuff like RDR, GTA, Mass Effect etc.

I always assumed TXAA was TAA but with Nvidia branding and optimization?

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

The guy you're replying to does not like anyone even discussing the remote possibility of an SCD or a more powerful dedicated console coming later. I believe it all stems from Supermetaldaves group who always insisted that NX would be a powerful x86 based console. I totally agree with him with regards to SMD but the way he shuts down any kind of positive predication / speculation about the future of Nintendo hardware is incredible annoying to me.

I personally really enjoy your posts and looking at what could be done in the future with regards to possible upgrades using an SCD or even more devices in the family of Switch systems. I'd love to see an SCD released for the Switch which lets you run all the games at native 4k. Like I've said before the more options Nintendo offer the more people they will appeal to and the more hardware they will sell. PS4 Pro sales show that there is a market for that kind of thing.

On the subject of the currently known clocks, almost 400gflops docked really isn't that bad esp when you consider that it's 2x WiiU and then there is the architectural performance gains and the Vulkan / Nvidia custom API / OS efficiency advantages Switch will bring.

People should wait until the Jan event to see games actually running on final hardware before being too down on the systems graphical ability.

I like you, and that avatar

 

[Malakai]

It's called throttling on batteries. "Hybrid" is such a terrible misnomer for what Switch is. A better hybrid would have been a device with GPU dock. That current "dock" is glorified HDMI out and power plug housing.

Using a dock-able GPU would have had been very expensive to sell. (I'm on team $199) Although I do agree usage of "hybrid" isn't truly correct when regarding the Switch.

 

[bobeth]

I always assumed TXAA was TAA but with Nvidia branding and optimization?

I thought TXAA combined TAA with some form of MSAA, thus the larger computational cost..

 

[Beerman462]

Switch is more like 5.8 x 4.2 (that's without controllers obviously) and its much thicker than Pixel C.

Actually it might be bigger than that. I thought something was off. I just looked at the Ars Technica article again and the 5.7x3.2 was just the screen so that's my mistake.

 

[James Scott]

From what we know we can assume that the Switch in portable form outperforms Wii U and the docked mode is a little over 2x that, right?
Saw someone tweeting about this on Twitter, but what would that mean for those rare already 1080p Wii U games especially if they get ported?
Smash 4, for instance, already runs at 1080p 60fps on Wii U, On portable mode it would have a lot of additional power since it's running at half the resolution, but will when docked will Nintendo make >1080p games, add new visual features, or just leave it as is?

 

[Vena]

What the hell happened in this thread?

From what we know we can assume that the Switch in portable form outperforms Wii U and the docked mode is a little over 2x that, right?
Saw someone tweeting about this on Twitter, but what would that mean for those rare already 1080p Wii U games especially if they get ported?
Smash 4, for instance, already runs at 1080p 60fps on Wii U, On portable mode it would have a lot of additional power since it's running at half the resolution, but will when docked will Nintendo make >1080p games, add new visual features, or just leave it as is?

Its roughly the same out of dock, yes, but in the dock with all the various advantages and far superior API under the hood, the docked mode is likely going to be performing in the neighborhood of 3x+ better than the WiiU.

The games already at 1080p from Nintendo will likely gain a bunch of bells and whistles on top of their rock-solid performance, or make their performance rock-solid. I don't see them pushing beyond 1080p. I'd sooner expect higher AA solutions and such, which will themselves make further scaling "nicer".

 

[James Scott]

What the hell happened in this thread?



Its roughly the same out of dock, yes, but in the dock with all the various advantages and far superior API under the hood, the docked mode is likely going to be performing in the neighborhood of 3x+ better than the WiiU.

The games already at 1080p from Nintendo will likely gain a bunch of bells and whistles on top of their rock-solid performance, or make their performance rock-solid. I don't see them pushing beyond 1080p. I'd sooner expect higher AA solutions and such, which will themselves make further scaling "nicer".

While games like Wind Waker HD did suffer from some frame rate issues, doesn't Smash perform at a locked 60fps and 1080p?
Not sure if some downsampling might produce a nicer image or if they can do anything else.
Maybe a turbo mode or something?

Also, wouldn't docked mode be able to have some advantages over Wii U as well? Unless i read that wrong, it seems the Switch's CPU is better and I'd imagine in both modes they'd have access to at least 2x the RAM Wii U could use for games.

 

[LordKano]

Smash Bros is not a perfect 60fps. It's hard to notice unless you're trying to but when you make final smash attacks or heavy stuff like that, it drops a bit.

But you wouldn't need much power to lock that up. So I hope they'll improve the visuals a bit. Some texture work, more detailled models.

 

[sfried]

What the hell happened in this thread?

"We need to make new negative Nintendo thread! Gotta have that quota of criticism!"

Its roughly the same out of dock, yes, but in the dock with all the various advantages and far superior API under the hood, the docked mode is likely going to be performing in the neighborhood of 3x+ better than the WiiU.

The games already at 1080p from Nintendo will likely gain a bunch of bells and whistles on top of their rock-solid performance, or make their performance rock-solid. I don't see them pushing beyond 1080p. I'd sooner expect higher AA solutions and such, which will themselves make further scaling "nicer".

I'm still confused about the fan placement. Didn't the patents also mention a fan within the dock itself? Maybe the final product does not feature active cooling after all and it's just another case of covering bases, much like the HMD part?

While games like Wind Waker HD did suffer from some frame rate issues, doesn't Smash perform at a locked 60fps and 1080p?
Not sure if some downsampling might produce a nicer image or if they can do anything else.
Maybe a turbo mode or something?

Smash Bros is not a perfect 60fps. It's hard to notice unless you're trying to but when you make final smash attacks or heavy stuff like that, it drops a bit.

I suspect at least the Switch is now better at handling alpha transparencies, at least when compared to the Wii U.

 

[Skittzo0413]

While games like Wind Waker HD did suffer from some frame rate issues, doesn't Smash perform at a locked 60fps and 1080p?
Not sure if some downsampling might produce a nicer image or if they can do anything else.
Maybe a turbo mode or something?

Also, wouldn't docked mode be able to have some advantages over Wii U as well? Unless i read that wrong, it seems the Switch's CPU is better and I'd imagine in both modes they'd have access to at least 2x the RAM Wii U could use for games.

You can always add more graphical effects, details, new textures, lighting, post processing, etc... Both modes are more powerful than the Wii U, but what that means for games that started life on the Wii U or ports from the Wii U is not clear. It'll be up to developers to figure out how they want to take advantage of the increased capabilities across the board.

 

[random25]

From what we know we can assume that the Switch in portable form outperforms Wii U and the docked mode is a little over 2x that, right?
Saw someone tweeting about this on Twitter, but what would that mean for those rare already 1080p Wii U games especially if they get ported?
Smash 4, for instance, already runs at 1080p 60fps on Wii U, On portable mode it would have a lot of additional power since it's running at half the resolution, but will when docked will Nintendo make >1080p games, add new visual features, or just leave it as is?

My reply from the other thread:

In the case of Smash 4, I don't think there's some huge improvements on graphics. We'll probably see more performance improvements. For example, in 8-player Smash hazards in stages are turned off in the Wii U version. The Switch version, with more power under the hood, can make hazards in 8-player mode possible.

 

[Astral Dog]

What the hell happened in this thread?



Its roughly the same out of dock, yes, but in the dock with all the various advantages and far superior API under the hood, the docked mode is likely going to be performing in the neighborhood of 3x+ better than the WiiU.

The games already at 1080p from Nintendo will likely gain a bunch of bells and whistles on top of their rock-solid performance, or make their performance rock-solid. I don't see them pushing beyond 1080p. I'd sooner expect higher AA solutions and such, which will themselves make further scaling "nicer".

Was hoping for 3x Wii U on undocked :'(

 

[sfried]

My reply from the other thread:

No chance of Ice Climbers making a return? (Weren't the reasons for their absence technical?)

 

[Vena]

While games like Wind Waker HD did suffer from some frame rate issues, doesn't Smash perform at a locked 60fps and 1080p?
Not sure if some downsampling might produce a nicer image or if they can do anything else.
Maybe a turbo mode or something?

Also, wouldn't docked mode be able to have some advantages over Wii U as well? Unless i read that wrong, it seems the Switch's CPU is better and I'd imagine in both modes they'd have access to at least 2x the RAM Wii U could use for games.

Smash is rock-solid, but it can still use improvements like 8-player having limitations on the WiiU.

Was hoping for 3x Wii U on undocked :'(

I don't think that was ever really on the table, 2x at most was a reasonable placement given what we knew from this very thread. Handheld mode was never going to running full-blast relative to the TX1 Jetson, that's just too power hungry. I just didn't expect it to be clocked at half/third on the CPU/GPU. This is why I am curious for a teardown to see what the heck is going on under the hood. Its possible, at the end of the day, that this was a necessary move.

/shrug

 

[Astral Dog]

No chance of Ice Climbers making a return? (Weren't the reasons for their absence technical?)

On 3DS

 

[random25]

No chance of Ice Climbers making a return? (Weren't the reasons for their absence technical?)

Yes, but that's because of the 3DS version. Wii U version alone, the Ice Climbers were supposed to be working according to Sakurai himself. Should be no problems on the Switch version if they decide to bring them back.

 

[Enduin]

From what we know we can assume that the Switch in portable form outperforms Wii U and the docked mode is a little over 2x that, right?
Saw someone tweeting about this on Twitter, but what would that mean for those rare already 1080p Wii U games especially if they get ported?
Smash 4, for instance, already runs at 1080p 60fps on Wii U, On portable mode it would have a lot of additional power since it's running at half the resolution, but will when docked will Nintendo make >1080p games, add new visual features, or just leave it as is?

Right now with what we know of Docked vs Undocked to my understanding is that there is no difference outside of resolution output. The way the system is configured and power ratios has it so that Undocked is meant for 720p gaming, while the increases in GPU and RAM speed when docked are pretty much meant solely to allow devs to increase that resolution to native 1080p for HD TVs. There's a bit of headroom going by the leaked specs, but I don't know if that's an appreciable amount of power to really do much with.

We'll know more in Jan hopefully, but the basic premise is that the Switch is going to be running the same regardless of its use status, the only different will be the resolution output. Either 720p in handheld mode or 1080p when docked. Though unfortunately some devs will not meet those targets and you'll have some other resolution ratios between docked/undocked mods.

 

[lwilliams3]

Jetson TX1 is runnable at a plethora of powers levels. They could have easily ran it at sub-max levels from the very start.

That's true, though that loud fan didn't imply that.

If that is the case, though, developers have been content with the level of power that they. That is much better than the Wii U, though that could have a lot more to do with the lack of documentation and the subpar development tools. The reliable insiders' info are still valid, though we may have to take LCGeek's info with about the CPU and cut it in half unless Nintendo has done some interesting optimizations.

 

[Roo]

Smash Bros is not a perfect 60fps. It's hard to notice unless you're trying to but when you make final smash attacks or heavy stuff like that, it drops a bit.

But you wouldn't need much power to lock that up. So I hope they'll improve the visuals a bit. Some texture work, more detailled models.

You must be seeing things because smash is 60fps locked, even in stages with heavy background noise like Midgar and it's summons when everything goes to shit

No chance of Ice Climbers making a return? (Weren't the reasons for their absence technical?)

They were running on Wii U to some degree but ultimately scrapped because 3DS was shit and couldn't handle them.
There really no reason why they wouldn't return for the Switch version other than their initial excuse being BS in the first place.

 

[James Scott]

Was hoping for 3x Wii U on undocked :'(

It seems mostly fine.
I don't think any Nintendo WIi U game goes sub 720p, right? At native rez they'd look really nice on it and it should mean a decent battery life and 1080p games for the most part even if they're on the simpler side when compared to PS4 games

 

[SystemUser]

Switch is more like 5.8 x 4.2 (that's without controllers obviously) and its much thicker than Pixel C.

The controllers have batteries in them too since they seem to have been shown wireless. I would assume that Nintendo would figure out a way to have the controller batteries give the system more battery time when connected. Each JoyCon could have a battery that is 800-1500 mAh. With the screen size and thickness I could see the Switch tablet part having a 3000-5000 mAh battery. That would be a total battery of 4600-8000 mAh.


I could be way off on my estimate. The 3DS XL uses a 1750 mAh. The standard size 3DS uses 1300 mAh battery. The Wii U Pro controller uses the same 1300 mAh battery as the 3DS. The "new" 3DS line uses the same batteries. The Wii U Gamepad uses 1500-2550 mAh batteries.

 

[Skittzo0413]

You must be seeing things because smash is 60fps locked, even in stages with heavy background noise like Midgar and it's summons when everything goes to shit

Didn't they say that everything in the game except for assist trophies and Pokemon were 60fps locked?

 

[Neoxon]

Didn't they say that everything in the game except for assist trophies and Pokemon were 60fps locked?

For the 3DS version, only. Everything in the Wii U version is locked to 60fps.

 

[Roo]

Didn't they say that everything in the game except for assist trophies and Pokemon were 60fps locked?

I remember them saying that for the 3DS, not Wii U.
If that's the case in both versions then I stand corrected but I could swear the Wii U version is 60fps all around.


Edit: I type too slow it seems. Neoxon said the same as me.

 

[Astral Dog]

It seems mostly fine.
I don't think any Nintendo WIi U game goes sub 720p, right? At native rez they'd look really nice on it and it should mean a decent battery life and 1080p games for the most part even if they're on the simpler side when compared to PS4 games

Yep they will still look pretty and run well, would be preferable a system to take good advantage of those 3GB of memory.
January 12 cant come soon enough.

 

[Astral Dog]

Smash Bros for Wii U is like one of the most optimized games ever made.

 

[Skittzo0413]

For the 3DS version, only. Everything in the Wii U version is locked to 60fps.

I remember them saying that for the 3DS, not Wii U.
If that's the case in both versions then I stand corrected but I could swear the Wii U version is 60fps all around.


Edit: I type too slow it seems. Neoxon said the same as me.

Then nevermind, thanks for the corrections!

I'm just expecting to see some nicer particle effects and post-processing. Maybe some improved lighting/shadows?

 

[Roo]

Smash Bros for Wii U is like one of the most optimized games ever made.

While it's not the most taxing game graphics wise, the fact they managed to hit that resolution with such stable framerate and considering all the shortcomings the console it runs on has, it only proves how well designed the game is.

It's going to be interesting to see what they do with it now that they have better specs to play with.
That is of course if they do anything else with it other than adding new characters and stages.

 

[Hermii]

No chance of Ice Climbers making a return? (Weren't the reasons for their absence technical?)

That was because of 3ds limitations not Wii U limitations obviously. I would be surprised if they don't return.

 

[Shogmaster]

Using a dock-able GPU would have had been very expensive to sell. (I'm on team $199) Although I do agree usage of "hybrid" isn't truly correct when regarding the Switch.

Yes clearly it would have and I'm not faulting Nintendo for not going that route. Current Switch configuration is perfectly fine IMO and good to amazing depending on the price they decide on. I'm just faulting Nintendo for calling the current set up as a "hybrid" and getting many people's expectations all skewed for it.

 

[KingSnake]

Right now with what we know of Docked vs Undocked to my understanding is that there is no difference outside of resolution output. The way the system is configured and power ratios has it so that Undocked is meant for 720p gaming, while the increases in GPU and RAM speed when docked are pretty much meant solely to allow devs to increase that resolution to native 1080p for HD TVs. There's a bit of headroom going by the leaked specs, but I don't know if that's an appreciable amount of power to really do much with.

The default settings in UE4 cuts down the resolution but also the quality of AA, shadows, draw distance, textures and other effects by one level from the console profile to the handheld profile.

 

[Mr Swine]

The default settings in UE4 cuts down the resolution but also the quality of AA, shadows, draw distance, textures and other effects by one level from the console profile to the handheld profile.

Can't that simply mean that the graphics options that UE4 has isn't optimized for the undocked Switch thus it just takes the lowest setting possible?

 

[KingSnake]

Can't that simply mean that the graphics options that UE4 has isn't optimized for the undocked Switch thus it just takes the lowest setting possible?

It's not the lowest setting possible. There is one level below. And default settings are not mandatory, the devs can optimize the games as they want, but it should provide a decent overview about the difference.