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[dark10x]

Wow, you of all people would stoop that low?

WHAT THE ****

Why in such a small tv?

Ha ha, I know. That's all I had in Japan at the time (that or the TV tuner in my laptop).

 

[GhaleonEB]

If you expected this to happen, why did you predict 282k for PS3?

Kersnap. :lol

 

[mckmas8808]

WOW! PS3 sales suck. Maybe tax returns will help the sales in late March/April.

 

[Rancid Mildew]

Oh spwolf PLEASE respond to your prediction. I really want to see what you have to say.

 

[deftangel]

Actually, I have not seen this newer iSupply. This is a really serious decrease in costs from the previous one. Now I can see that there is a possibility of 200 Core in 08. Maybe even in early 08. But absolutely no way in 07 - losing all the money they would make on people who would be buying 360 for Halo and GTA anyway is just not smart. Don't forget that cost cutting goes both ways - it increases the profits from the hardware sold at the old price too.



Now one thing to consider about the core is that right now it's pretty much a bullet point - nobody is actually buying them. So based on this iSupply figures, right now MS makes something like $50 bucks on each premium sold (retailers cut, warranty) while probably loses something like $10 bucks on each core. Cuting prices of the core to 200 and premium to 300 hundred this year would still result in a loss of $50-90 on every console.

Bottom line - there would be some 7 million consoles on which they would make at the very least $100 less. That is 700 million difference. The additional consoles they sell - those would be at least another 300 million of losses given that they would be skewed towards the cheaper core. So I'm revising my estimates of what it would cost to cut the prices to 1 billion in 07.

Surely though given the monstrous first party line up in 2007 a large part of that will be off-set by software sales. MGS published games aren't paying their royalty to the platform holder. When Halo 2 came out, it was the only quarter that the Xbox division made a profit. despite them burning money still on the hardware.

Add in the reduced shipment figures for the first half of this year and they're also saving a ton on manufacturing and distribution.

Come 2008 the Xbox division could be sitting on quite the warchest whereas Sony will be nowhere near making money at that point unless Blu-Ray really really takes off.

 

[Kosma]

4. Merovingian's claim that changing the way you play a game doesn't change the gameplay. Unreal. That made my eyes pop more than the sales numbers. :lol

It's funny because it's true. Controlling the game through mouse/keyboard/joypad/wiimote doesn't change the gameplay AT ALL. It changes controls only.

 

[Link]

Motion blur.

Of course, I also played it on a 13" TV with headphones. :\

Exceptions have nothing to do with system and everything to do with content. If a game is good enough, I can deal with framerate issues. That doesn't mean they don't drive me crazy, though...

Ok, good. Now, I want you to pause, step back, and think about that for a moment. This is how most gamers see games in everyday life.

 

[meltpotato]

Ok, good. Now, I want you to pause, step back, and think about that for a moment. This is how most gamers see games in everyday life.

well 13" and headphones is a bit of a stretch but i would assume the vast majority in america fall into the roughly 19" - 23" stereo sound demo.

WOW! PS3 sales suck. Maybe tax returns will help the sales in late March/April.

:lol i love this argument

 

[Evlar]

I've spent a lot of money on hifi and HD equipment so I wasn't pleased when I learned Nintendo would be limiting the Wii to 480p. That said, I am ultimately happy that they did this. If they went down the path of Sony, we would have another technological arms race on our hands and eventually, the market would shrink as significant budget buyers get priced out. A shrinking market means less games. What Nintendo is doing is healthy for the entire industry. People always say Nintendo rips us off by making profit and Nintendo is taking grave steps backwards but that doesn't matter in the end. The Wii is a system that makes the least impact on a consumer's pocketbook and is a very fun console. I had to buy a new 480p projector to save my eyes but it's fun factor is quite excellent.

I don't think the fears that Nintendo is killing technology are founded in reality. It's just slowing it down. I never understood why new research needs to be done to create new hardware so gamers are put on a new cutting edge. It's perfectly acceptable to use off the shelf parts to make a system in my opinion. These exponential leaps in technology for the explicit purpose of gaming are so wasteful of resources. Technology will advance without the console market anyways.

In the end, all the flaming and bashing of Nintendo means nothing. The market disagrees and is moving on to a more evolutionary scheme of technology. I think it will be better for everyone.

Exactly. Very well said.

The game industry is prone to the Icarus syndrome- pushing technology too hard so that the benefits of high-spec tech (and there are plenty of undeniable benefits) become overshadowed by the considerable drawbacks... in the situation we're facing now, higher price of entry and emphasis on features that require high-end televisions and audio systems to enjoy. It is bad for the industry to become complacent and stagnate, and it is bad for the industry to become over-zealous and exceed what can be done within a mass-market entertainment budget. The entire reason the console market has thrived through the years is that it maintained the proper balance between the two more often than not.

 

[StingerNLG]

Almost 40 pages. Yes.....this thread is now EPIIIIIIC.

 

[Wiitard]

Surely though given the monstrous first party line up in 2007 a large part of that will be off-set by software sales. MGS published games aren't paying their royalty to the platform holder. When Halo 2 came out, it was the only quarter that the Xbox division made a profit. despite them burning money still on the hardware.

Add in the reduced shipment figures for the first half of this year and they're also saving a ton on manufacturing and distribution.

Come 2008 the Xbox division could be sitting on quite the warchest whereas Sony will be nowhere near making money at that point unless Blu-Ray really really takes off.

Yes, if they keep the current pricing structure and sell 20 mil first party games this year, this would mean nice 1.5 b in profits. Maybe even 2 b. Those are the kind of results they need to show internally after all the money which was spent on them.

 

[momolicious]

can someone please explain why NPD is the biggest thing ever here? why is this legendary? someone said that in first reply too

 

[Link]

well 13" and headphones is a bit of a stretch but i would assume the vast majority in america fall into the roughly 19" - 23" stereo sound demo.

I was referring to the fact that content trumps anything else. Playing on a 13" tv is just brutal for anyone.

 

[GhaleonEB]

can someone please explain why NPD is the biggest thing ever here? why is this legendary? someone said that in first reply too

1) Because the company that came in last place in the US in the previous generation is in first place right now (monthly sales).
2) Because the company that came in first place everywhere in the previous generation is coming in last place right now.
3) Because these results are dramatically different than anyone expected even a couple of months ago.
4) Because this might represent one of the most seismic shifts in the industry, as dramatic and swift as we've ever seen.

 

[Version 3.0]

It's funny because it's true. Controlling the game through mouse/keyboard/joypad/wiimote doesn't change the gameplay AT ALL. It changes controls only.

So you don't consider control part of gameplay? That's really weird. I consider it the largest part.

 

[Eteric Rice]

1) Because the company that came in last place in the US in the previous generation is in first place right now (monthly sales).
2) Because the company that came in first place everywhere in the previous generation is coming in last place right now.
3) Because these results are dramatically different than anyone expected even a couple of months ago.
4) Because this represents a seismic shift in the industry, as dramatic and swift as we've ever seen.

Or, as it says in the Fresh Prince theme, "Their worlds got flip turned upside down..."

Everything is changing, now. It's pretty crazy.

 

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

Of course, I also played it on a 13" TV with headphones. :\

 

[Xisiqomelir]

(Mostly) Irrelevant fact: Creative is the only Singaporean company to have made any impact whatsoever on an international scale.

Does Temasek buying Shin Corp and thus bringing about the downfall of the Thai government not count?

 

[dark10x]

Heh, how does that apply here? :lol

 

[Big Chief Crazy Cone]

The people that Sony need to buy PS3 have no idea GDC exists and probably have no idea what Home or LBP are.

In other news, they're closing an Ames near me and turning it into a Gamecube Hut.

 

[Eteric Rice]

It's funny because it's true. Controlling the game through mouse/keyboard/joypad/wiimote doesn't change the gameplay AT ALL. It changes controls only.

It's not true, controls can enhance gameplay. Why? Would you rather play an FPS game with a d-pad, or a mouse? A mouse allows for quicker movements, etc. If you'd rather play FPS games on a d-pad, you're insane.

Basically, the mouse allows for quick and accurate movement, while the d-pad does not. The quickness adds to the fun, which in turn is enhanced gameplay.

 

[momolicious]

how was it surprising though, did anyone really believe that Nintendo DS and Wii wouldnt be the biggest sellers? they are cheaper, more affordable, and more accessable to the general public, and casual/new gamer friendly

 

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

Heh, how does that apply here? :lol

Actually, that was a reminder for myself.

 

[Eteric Rice]

how was it surprising though, did anyone really believe that Nintendo DS and Wii wouldnt be the biggest sellers? they are cheaper, more affordable, and more accessable to the general public, and casual/new gamer friendly

Want me to drag up some posts from a few months ago?

 

[Musashi Wins!]

If you expected this to happen, why did you predict 282k for PS3?

haha, gaf.

Sent out to die, indeed. I feel stupid for buying one. It's really not worth it right now and there is obviously going to be a price drop soon.

 

[Kosma]

So you don't consider control part of gameplay? That's really weird. I consider it the largest part.

I was thinking more in line of game mechanics. The Wii-Mote hasn't changed anything in that respect yet. That's the core of the gameplay for me.

It's not true, controls can enhance gameplay.

It all depends on the pacing of the game. Halo? Controller please. UT? mouse/keyboard.

 

[sonycowboy]

1) Because the company that came in last place in the US in the previous generation is in first place right now (monthly sales).
2) Because the company that came in first place everywhere in the previous generation is coming in last place right now.
3) Because these results are dramatically different than anyone expected even a couple of months ago.
4) Because this represents a seismic shift in the industry, as dramatic and swift as we've ever seen.

You had me until #4.

I certainly agree that if things continue as they are today that would be true, and 2007 not going to be a year that the PS3 can catch up, but it's still far too early to be declaring a seismic shift. We're experiencing some precurors to be sure, but it'll take some time to know if the whole industry is going to be affected based on these 2 months of sales so far this year.

 

[Version 3.0]

Exactly. Very well said.

The game industry is prone to the Icarus syndrome- pushing technology too hard so that the benefits of high-spec tech (and there are plenty of undeniable benefits) become overshadowed by the considerable drawbacks... in the situation we're facing now, higher price of entry and emphasis on features that require high-end televisions and audio systems to enjoy. It is bad for the industry to become complacent and stagnate, and it is bad for the industry to become over-zealous and exceed what can be done within a mass-market entertainment budget. The entire reason the console market has thrived through the years is that it maintained the proper balance between the two more often than not.

Excellent post. Technology for technology's sake is silly (take a look at the PC graphics card market). But to be fair, Nintendo is just as far off-balance as Sony, just on the other end.

 

[IoCaster]

Great googly moogly!

This thread delivers in the biggest of ways. Jabs, uppercuts, rabbit punches and haymakers from every conceivable angle. Down and dirty in the trenches from the frontlines of the console wars . I'm simply awestruck!

Thank you all, for making this NPD thread all that it could be.

Ninty is looking like an unstoppable juggernaut right now and this brings me flashbacks all the way to the early NES days. Kudos.

MS looks like they're hoping that slow and steady wins the race. I don't really know that they're wrong with this strategy. We'll find out, sooner rather than later, I expect.

Sony seems to be floundering at the moment. Rock meet hard place. Can they afford a price cut at this juncture? Can they afford not to make a price cut? That's one hell of a dilemma. They've seemingly brought it upon themselves by introducing an HD format war into the console gaming arena. A questionable business decision for sure.

I plan to kick back with a cold one and enjoy the show. I can honestly say that I'm a hardware agnostic this generation. I've got my PS3 and X360. As soon as I can chase down a Wii I'll be set. Great times ahead for all gamers and I hope this all gets sorted out this holiday season.

 

[GhaleonEB]

You had me until #4.

I certainly agree that if things continue as they are today that would be true, and 2007 not going to be a year that the PS3 can catch up, but it's still far too early to be declaring a seismic shift. We're experiencing some precurors to be sure, but it'll take some time to know if the whole industry is going to be affected based on these 2 months of sales so far this year.

Of course that's what is assumes. It's waaaaaay to early to call the generation, but my point is, things are shaken up. Consider where the players were at this point last year versus now. It's not to say things can't change again, but I do see this as a dramtic turning piont for the industry. As Nintendo would say, the order of things has been disrupted.

But I worded it to strongly and have edited to this, which I think is more accurate:

4) Because this might represent one of the most seismic shifts in the industry, as dramatic and swift as we've ever seen.

 

[Masklinn]

If you expected this to happen, why did you predict 282k for PS3?

It's not true, controls can enhance gameplay. Why? Would you rather play an FPS game with a d-pad, or a mouse? A mouse allows for quicker movements, etc. If you'd rather play FPS games on a d-pad, you're insane.

He was ironic I think.

Or so I hope anyway, it may be a false positive but I'd prefer if it wasn't.

edit: ouch, looks like he wasn't...

 

[veinkman]

supply constrained

:lol

 

[MrToughPants]

After reading a few pages it's like some people are stroking it over this news and others will lose some sleep over it.

Nintendo fanboy

Sony fanboy

Neutral party

 

[Version 3.0]

I was thinking more in line of game mechanics. The Wii-Mote hasn't changed anything in that respect yet. That's the core of the gameplay for me.

But it has made things work that wouldn't with traditional controls. Wii Sports wouldn't be fun with a Dual Shock. Trauma Center wouldn't work well without the pointer (could be done with a mouse, of course, but that's not very suitable for a console).
And personally, I found Call of Duty 3 to be supremely enjoyable with the Wiimote. I found it more challenging, and more engaging because my precision was based on my own hand's steadiness. No more just letting the mouse/control stick sit still to perfectly aim at the spot where I know an enemy is about to stick his head up. I had to hold steady myself. I found it to be an improvement over the mouse because of the drop in precision, which I know sounds weird, but it's true. It felt more real.

I do know what you mean--you're looking for stuff that can't be done at all without the Wiimote. I'm not sure that will ever happen, not to the satisfaction of the skeptical, anyway. But there are a lot of things that work better or feel better (ie. are more fun) with the Wiimote. And there are plenty that don't, too (Zelda's stupid sword whacking).

 

[speculawyer]

Motion blur.

Of course, I also played it on a 13" TV with headphones. :\...

:lol

Edit: Damn, beaten by a long shot!

 

[blame space]

 

[plagiarize]

WOW! PS3 sales suck. Maybe tax returns will help the sales in late March/April.

i had my tax return in mid february and i did indeed use it to buy my PS3.

however Sonycowboy said that from what he's heard march sales are about the same speed as feb sales, so don't get your hopes up too much.

also, April is the slowest month of the year for hardware sales traditionally and tax returns aren't a new thing, so i don't think there's going to be much impact.

 

[J-Rzez]

can someone please explain why NPD is the biggest thing ever here? why is this legendary? someone said that in first reply too

Um, dude... because it's in direct relation to how much fun you're allowed to have on your console... For instance, you're not going to have any fun on a PS3 right now, AND you're totally worried in the back of your mind what next months numbers are going to be if you're a 360 owner because those numbers aren't OMG-worthy, and it too can fall into the abyss of selling under 200k units... Which, we all know, means you can NOT have fun on it...

After 2 months into 07, and 4 months into this gen, people are declaring victory, and so emphatically... I hope Sony comes back stronger than ever, doesn't have to be this year, but, in the end and wins it all... I want to see mass suicides...

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

God is that real?

How horrible.

After 2 months into 07, and 4 months into this gen, people are declaring victory, and so emphatically... I hope Sony comes back stronger than ever, doesn't have to be this year, but, in the end and wins it all... I want to see mass suicides...

I think you need a nap or something. I'm starting to wonder if you're joking or not.

 

[lollerskates]

o dear

 

[Deku]

You had me until #4.

I certainly agree that if things continue as they are today that would be true, and 2007 not going to be a year that the PS3 can catch up, but it's still far too early to be declaring a seismic shift. We're experiencing some precurors to be sure, but it'll take some time to know if the whole industry is going to be affected based on these 2 months of sales so far this year.

Well sure. The future is always in flux, but considering the current trends have pretty much refuted the knee jerk excuses cooked up to explain the last 4 NPD sales on 4 separate occasions, I just find your line pretty much a cop out clause for discussing anything worthwhile until the race is decided in which case no one would want to discuss it anyways.

And :lol if you think the players in the industry haven't already shifted their strategy and resource allocations based on these sales data.

 

[Kosma]

I do know what you mean--you're looking for stuff that can't be done at all without the Wiimote. I'm not sure that will ever happen, not to the satisfaction of the skeptical, anyway. But there are a lot of things that work better or feel better (ie. are more fun) with the Wiimote. And there are plenty that don't, too (Zelda's stupid sword whacking).

Yeah that's what I ment.

 

[ivysaur12]

Can someone tell me what page the software sales are on... if they're out? Going through this thread is surfing through a pile of lame "winners" and bitter, bitter tears.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Can someone tell me what page the software sales are on... if they're out? Going through this thread is surfing through a pile of lame "winners" and bitter, bitter tears.

You know there's another thread right?

 

[ivysaur12]

You know there's another thread right?

Ah ha ha

 

[Link]

After 2 months into 07, and 4 months into this gen, people are declaring victory, and so emphatically... I hope Sony comes back stronger than ever, doesn't have to be this year, but, in the end and wins it all... I want to see mass suicides...

We don't have to wait, that's pretty much already happening now.

 

[Neomoto]

After reading a few pages it's like some people are stroking it over this news and others will lose some sleep over it.

Nintendo fanboy
http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/~tskirvin/pics/bestof/2004/tn/tim-excited.med.jpg

Sony fanboy
http://images.usatoday.com/sports/_photos/2006/05/18/nail-biter.jpg

Neutral party
http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/PHD/PHD593/200122842-001.jpg

Of course the typical Nintendo fanboy is a fat nerd and a sony fanboy a 'cool' guy, stealth trolling ftw (j/k )

It's funny because it's true. Controlling the game through mouse/keyboard/joypad/wiimote doesn't change the gameplay AT ALL. It changes controls only.

No it changes not only gameplay itself but also how the player put it to practise solely because of what you can do with the wii controlls. It make no sense what so ever to compare it to a joypad or keyboard because it's something completely different. It's not that developers simply replace "pressing button x" with "swing like this" and call it a day, they change the controlls and the gameplay to reinforce the controlls.

 

[Vagabundo]

And personally, I found Call of Duty 3 to be supremely enjoyable with the Wiimote. I found it more challenging, and more engaging because my precision was based on my own hand's steadiness. No more just letting the mouse/control stick sit still to perfectly aim at the spot where I know an enemy is about to stick his head up. I had to hold steady myself. I found it to be an improvement over the mouse because of the drop in precision, which I know sounds weird, but it's true. It felt more real.

I agree, with the Wiimote you need more skill. I think it a problem most reviewers have, they are kinda crap, their manual dexterity is optimized for button mashing.

People with real world skills do better with the wiimote.

 

[meltpotato]

We don't have to wait, that's pretty much already happening now.

im supremely worried about SSX

 

[Kobun Heat]

I certainly agree that if things continue as they are today that would be true, and 2007 not going to be a year that the PS3 can catch up, but it's still far too early to be declaring a seismic shift. We're experiencing some precurors to be sure, but it'll take some time to know if the whole industry is going to be affected based on these 2 months of sales so far this year.

Uh. No. The entire industry is going to be affected by this. And has been already. Whether or not Sony mounts a comeback in 2008 can certainly change the extent to which the balance of power in the industry will be altered. But the damage has been done. No takebacks.