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[Yoboman]

no trolls are defined by their intent. to rile up for no good reason. not my intent. i was just posting my impressions in the impression thread.

next go thru my post history and explain how my attitude was that of a troll. i was not in the main thread bashing the game. i even said the demo was solid. just it was missing something and other issues.

i was attacked for not being positive and even called an xbot. my posts in other threads about other topics were pulled out of my history and posted in the thread for no good reason.

so as a ps3 owner and someone who downloaded the demo thru all the crashing of the store and played it i was a troll cause i did not like the demo and expressed those impressions in the impression thread? got it. now we see why it sold 117k units.

No, it was that you came back over and over trying to reinforce your opinions in a sea of people enjoying the game. Like a heckler in a comedian's audience

 

[frAntic_Frog]

. a good game would have sold alot more with a demo don't you think?



and yes as a ps3 owner i felt to much went into a garbage game..

i THANK god that popularity isnt what really dictates a good game or not, otherwise i'd be buying into the mainstream garbage that is Simon Sez games such as guitarhero and brainless shooters as COD4. I also THANK GOD that i have enough acumen to actually realize this fact. Please go blame Sonys poor marketing instead of hating a game thats been overwhelmingly well received nearly EVERYWHERE and almost EVERY GAMER you talk to about the game

 

[frAntic_Frog]

The only reason people paid attention to those Assassin's Creed interview videos was because of Jade Raymond. Ubisoft knows how to sell, Fact.

b-i-n-g-o was his name-o

sadly, sex appeal in marketing is still somethin that people actually fall for. no wonder politicians/corporations have such an easy time pulling the shade over the publics eyes

 

[HK-47]

i THANK god that popularity isnt what really dictates a good game or not, otherwise i'd be buying into the mainstream garbage that is Simon Sez games such as guitarhero and brainless shooters as COD4. I also THANK GOD that i have enough acumen to actually realize this fact. Please go blame Sonys poor marketing instead of hating a game thats been overwhelmingly well received nearly EVERYWHERE and almost EVERY GAMER you talk to about the game

If Guitar Hero III and CoD 4 are your definition of garbage, pile on the trash please

 

[Zzoram]

b-i-n-g-o was his name-o

sadly, sex appeal in marketing is still somethin that people actually fall for. no wonder politicians/corporations have such an easy time pulling the shade over the publics eyes

If companies learn, every big 2008 game will have a hot female front woman :lol

 

[Lefty42o]

No, it was that you came back over and over trying to reinforce your opinions in a sea of people enjoying the game. Like a heckler in a comedian's audience

no. i went back and kept replaying it based off of others views. and added to the thread.

so i can only post in a impression thread more than once if i like the game. got it. guess i missed the brainwashing when i got my confirmation e-mail to gaf

 

[GhaleonEB]

No, it was that you came back over and over trying to reinforce your opinions in a sea of people enjoying the game. Like a heckler in a comedian's audience

Just expressing a dissenting opinion made him a heckler? Hmm, I seem to recall a huge thread about groupthink and how dissenting opinions are welcome as long as they are supported.

In a normal gaming forum thread right now, if you have a dissenting opinion, genuine or not, the rest of the posters in the thread will often pile onto you harshly, calling for your banning or getting personal. The only way, from our experiences, to efficiently get a thread back on track when this happens is to remove the dissenter from the discussion. The crowd sees the banned tag, justice has been served for them, and they can go back to talking with regards to the other 99% of the thread.

But THAT IS ABSURD.

Sounds familiar. I've heard almost nothing but good things about Uncharted, but having been on the receiving end of the same kind of comments - I'm dissenting, therefore I'm a troll - I think you need to redefine what you consider trolling.

 

[Lefty42o]

i THANK god that popularity isnt what really dictates a good game or not, otherwise i'd be buying into the mainstream garbage that is Simon Sez games such as guitarhero and brainless shooters as COD4. I also THANK GOD that i have enough acumen to actually realize this fact. Please go blame Sonys poor marketing instead of hating a game thats been overwhelmingly well received nearly EVERYWHERE and almost EVERY GAMER you talk to about the game

i have in the mc threads. but since the game had a demo i also feel people had more choice to try the game and play it vs marketing commercials in print ads and other mediums.

same as a demo can sell a game a demo can not sell a game. thats my stance

 

[HK-47]

Just expressing a dissenting opinion made him a heckler? Hmm, I seem to recall a huge thread about groupthink and how dissenting opinions are welcome as long as they are supported.


Sounds familiar. I've heard almost nothing but good things about Uncharted, but having been on the receiving end of the same kind of comments - I'm dissenting, therefore I'm a troll - I think you need to redefine what you consider trolling.

You should have seen what happened when Drinky walked into the official Uncharted thread

 

[frAntic_Frog]

i have in the mc threads. but since the game had a demo i also feel people had more choice to try the game and play it vs marketing commercials in print ads and other mediums.

same as a demo can sell a game a demo can not sell a game. thats my stance

apparently not every ps3 owner was aware of the games existance or even that there was a demo. Surveys put ps3 online connectivity at 50% of userbase....theres more gamers out there who havent tried it yet. again, poor hype/marketing

 

[Lefty42o]

You should have seen what happened when Drinky walked into the official Uncharted thread

and i made a point to kept my impressions of the demo in the demo thread. Gaf lost my respect a lil that day when i got banned. i did not feel i was part of a community with differing opinions. and thats why i come here. that and npd day :lol

 

[snorggy]

regarding uncharted, there could have been a number of reasons it underperformed in sales. the month was loaded with other more hyped games? sony dropping the ball with the advertising for the game? it's too awesome for the average person? who knows? to keep insisting it's because you personally didn't like the demo is pretty stupid.

 

[Zzoram]

apparently not every ps3 owner was aware of the games existance or even that there was a demo. Surveys put ps3 online connectivity at 50% of userbase....theres more gamers out there who havent tried it yet. again, poor hype/marketing

Xbox Live has 8 million unique accounts, whereas PSN has 3 million. I bet the "online ratio" is pretty similar.

 

[Lefty42o]

apparently not every ps3 owner was aware of the games existance or even that there was a demo. Surveys put ps3 online connectivity at 50% of userbase....theres more gamers out there who havent tried it yet. again, poor hype/marketing

regarding uncharted, there could have been a number of reasons it underperformed in sales. the month was loaded with other more hyped games? sony dropping the ball with the advertising for the game? it's too awesome for the average person? who knows? to keep insisting it's because you personally didn't like the demo is pretty stupid.

once again i am not putting full blame on the demo. but the game did not have an identity. that flowed over into the marketing and more so in the demo.

i feel the marketing could have been much better yes. but i also put the same weight on the demo.

see all these people calling ac garbage? imagine how well ac would have sold with a demo. i dunno it might have hurt its sales. we will never know.

 

[frAntic_Frog]

but i also put the same weight on the demo.

see all these people calling ac garbage?

i guess the message that PS3 owners are sending is that sony shouldnt even bother with demos anymore on the psn, since it doesnt affect sales all that much. Nintendo has 0 wii demos and their games seem to be selling fine. Sony ought to focus the attention elsewhere maybe.......more PSN minigames like pain or SSHD...or use that demo bandwidth budget towards a bigger better ad campaign for games. make them seem bigger-than-life.....its just about the only marketing that our "modern" celebrity culture seems to respond to anymore (sadly)

 

[Lefty42o]

i guess the message that PS3 owners are sending is that sony shouldnt even bother with demos anymore on the psn, since it doesnt affect sales all that much. Nintendo has 0 wii demos and their games seem to be selling fine. Sony ought to focus the attention elsewhere maybe.......more PSN minigames like pain or SSHD

it is and has always been a double edge sword when it comes to demos. they can hurt you or they can help you.

dead rising and saints row come to mind. i feel the demo for those games helped them to sell.
i only bought heavenly sword cause i loved the demo.

but with this game i felt the demo hurt it.

 

[mr_bishiuk]

lmfao @ someone thinking we'll see a $250 PS3 in 2008

I think I once said that about $399 in 2007

regarding uncharted, there could have been a number of reasons it underperformed in sales. the month was loaded with other more hyped games? sony dropping the ball with the advertising for the game? it's too awesome for the average person? who knows? to keep insisting it's because you personally didn't like the demo is pretty stupid.

Thats a new one "its too awesome"!

 

[Lefty42o]

I think I once said that about $399 in 2007

i know right. at this point i bet sony slashes till the thing sells :lol

 

[snorggy]

once again i am not putting full blame on the demo. but the game did not have an identity. that flowed over into the marketing and more so in the demo.

i feel the marketing could have been much better yes. but i also put the same weight on the demo.

see all these people calling ac garbage? imagine how well ac would have sold with a demo. i dunno it might have hurt its sales. we will never know.

that said, i also saw a lot more advertising for CoD4 and AC than i did for uncharted... so which is really to blame? who really knows? certainly not you.. not unless you somehow are able to read the minds of millions of people.

basically, i have no problem with your opinion... but you aren't so much discussing it as you are trying to convince me that you're right... and that's kind of annoying.

 

[frAntic_Frog]

i know right. at this point i bet sony slashes till the thing sells :lol

i bet not. sony will not underprice the PS3 the same amount as a non-harddrive/non-hddvd 360, nor will ps3 match the price of a standalone hd-dvd player. no way.

sony will just wait until the heavy hitters come next year to see the next boost in sales

 

[Zzoram]

it is and has always been a double edge sword when it comes to demos. they can hurt you or they can help you.

dead rising and saints row come to mind. i feel the demo for those games helped them to sell.
i only bought heavenly sword cause i loved the demo.

but with this game i felt the demo hurt it.

bioshock demo brought it out. it had 0 mainstream buzz before the commercial a week before launch and the demo.

 

[Bishman]

I guess Ps3 owners now know how it feels to be a gamecube owner of last generation.
Those were my lowest days:lol

:lol :lol :lol

I know the feeling!

 

[Lefty42o]

that said, i also saw a lot more advertising for CoD4 and AC than i did for uncharted... so which is really to blame? who really knows? certainly not you.. not unless you somehow are able to read the minds of millions of people.

basically, i have no problem with your opinion... but you aren't so much discussing it as you are trying to convince me that you're right... and that's kind of annoying.

:lol

how in the hell am i trying to convince you. i am expressing my opinion. I have even said imho more than once.

as more people chime in i am explaining my thought process. i thought thats how a open forum works.

sorry if my opinion is forcing you to change yours.

 

[frAntic_Frog]

:lol :lol :lol

I know the feeling!

well isnt ps3 still getting nearly all 3rd party games as well as japanese dev support? that was something the gamecube and xbox suffered last gen respectively

 

[itsgreen]

bioshock demo brought it out. it had 0 mainstream buzz before the commercial a week before launch and the demo.

And I still havent bought the game... yet...

 

[speculawyer]

mario galaxy is jesus
accept it

Apparently Jesus got murdered in Jerusalem.

 

[Lefty42o]

i bet not. sony will not underprice the PS3 the same amount as a non-harddrive/non-hddvd 360, nor will ps3 match the price of a standalone hd-dvd player. no way.

sony will just wait until the heavy hitters come next year to see the next boost in sales

maybe. but i was so dead set they would not slash the price down to 400 before year 1 was over. and i was proven very wrong

bioshock demo brought it out. it had 0 mainstream buzz before the commercial a week before launch and the demo.

yup. another where a demo helped.

 

[itsgreen]

Apparently Jesus got murdered in Jerusalem.

And he even wasnt Mr Gay

 

[Lefty42o]

well isnt ps3 still getting nearly all 3rd party games as well as japanese dev support? that was something the gamecube and xbox suffered last gen respectively

i doubt that helps much here in the usa and thats what i was referring to. but i have been wrong before

 

[Zzoram]

maybe. but i9 was so dead set they would not slash the price down to 400 before year 1 was over. and i was proven very wrong



yup. another where a demo helped.

$249 PS3 in 2008? That would be dangerous, because it would mean $199 Xbox 360 Premium. Sony isn't stupid enough to force Microsoft's hand this early, when they still have the advantage. The only reason Microsoft made the Arcade SKU $279 was to make sure the Wii didn't drop to $199, but now we know the Wii won't drop to $199 until 2009 :lol

 

[Hammer24]

Have any numbers for Scene It surfaced?

 

[natureman3]

My take on NPD Numbers :
- Wii/PSP/DS/PS2 : i won't comment, not interested in those platform.
- 360 : in line with predictions. goos hardware sales. will it be enough to maintain its lead in 2008, as it has to make up loosing ground in the other markets ? Not sure.
- PS3 : my good surprise of the month. It sold OK, but at last it limited the loss of ground.
It's good than AC/COD4 sold well on it, it's good for third parties.
Uncharted / Ratchet : no one should ever rejoice that those 2 titles are not top performer sales wise. They deserve it and it's good for the industry that good games sell and not bomb.

For UT3/Crysis : those games bombed hardly but it was kind of expected for different reasons :
- The FPS scene is very crowded.
- They are PC bound
- Crysis requires a supercomputer to run properly (playstation 3 ? ahah)

So for those reasons, this is what i recommend to first party / third party :
- Choose genre that have a wild appeal
- Remove from your list genres overcrowded or too competitive (FPS, MMO,
- Get some main characters that generates tons of buzz.
- Good graphices sell definitely.
- explore uncharted genres.
=> conclusion : do a mid-budget porn-game and you'll sell much more than a random fps. By the way, when does sony / ms allow for such games (they could do it since they could distribute it via network, especially on psn that accept bigger games).

=> concl

 

[Lefty42o]

Have any numbers for Scene It surfaced?

no :lol

 

[Gary Whitta]

$249 PS3 in 2008? That would be dangerous, because it would mean $199 Xbox 360 Premium.

Would it? Even if PS3 could price-match the 360 it would still be at a disadvantage in terms of library/dev support/mindshare etc. If Sony dropped to $350 after Xmas to match the 360 Premium I don't think it would automatically trigger another drop from MS, not at all.

 

[Zzoram]

What all these "for the good of the industry, good games shouldn't bomb" people need to realize that good games almost never bomb... on the Xbox 360. Does anyone honestly believe that Uncharted wouldn't hit a million if it was on Xbox 360? I mean, they bought PREY!

 

[itsgreen]

My take on NPD Numbers :
- Wii/PSP/DS/PS2 : i won't comment, not interested in those platform.
- 360 : in line with predictions. goos hardware sales. will it be enough to maintain its lead in 2008, as it has to make up loosing ground in the other markets ? Not sure.
- PS3 : my good surprise of the month. It sold OK, but at last it limited the loss of ground.

I'm with you, I'm just no that impressed with the 360 hardware numbers. I think they should have done a 100k more.

Lets not forget it is easy to sell more in percentages if your sales are low. And the PS3 still sold 300k less than its nearest competitor.

 

[Lefty42o]

Would it? Even if PS3 could price-match the 360 it would still be at a disadvantage in terms of library/dev support/mindshare etc. If Sony dropped to $350 after Xmas to match the 360 Premium I don't think it would automatically trigger another drop from MS, not at all.

no way ms lets sony match them in price. which is why they did the 50.00 drop after sony announced the 400 40gb model.

thats one lesson they learned from sony last gen. price advantage. and the main reason the rushed to be first out the door.

I'm with you, I'm just no that impressed with the 360 hardware numbers. I think they should have done a 100k more.

Lets not forget it is easy to sell more in percentages if your sales are low. And the PS3 still sold 300k less than its nearest competitor.

what? :lol

why 100k more. at its price point to hit over 700k's is big.

 

[snorggy]

:lol

how in the hell am i trying to convince you. i am expressing my opinion. I have even said imho more than once.

as more people chime in i am explaining my thought process. i thought thats how a open forum works.

sorry if my opinion is forcing you to change yours.

well i'm not going to get into a pissing match with you, but open forums are probably supposed to involve discussion, not soapboxing. you can slap as many imho as you want into a post, but that doesn't change the fact that you've dismissed everyone else's opinions and kept hammering away at yours.. and imho that was annoying...

ANYWAY... how about that nintendo DS huh?

 

[DarrenS]

Any numbers for K&L?

 

[Reyzor XMG]

i bet not. sony will not underprice the PS3 the same amount as a non-harddrive/non-hddvd 360, nor will ps3 match the price of a standalone hd-dvd player. no way.

sony will just wait until the heavy hitters come next year to see the next boost in sales

Wasn't Uncharted supposed to be THE 'heavy hitter' that everyone was waiting for to finally drive sales past the competition? It's always, "Wait for: Lair, then Heavenly Sword, then R&C, then Uncharted..." See a trend here? I think the phrase, "Wait for 'x game' in 2008" needs to be retired, it's just setting up PS3 fans for disappointment.

 

[itsgreen]

Would it? Even if PS3 could price-match the 360 it would still be at a disadvantage in terms of library/dev support/mindshare etc. If Sony dropped to $350 after Xmas to match the 360 Premium I don't think it would automatically trigger another drop from MS, not at all.

I think MS is pretty secure at the moment. They sell quite well, the problem is that the Wii is selling more.

I think MS is hitting their pre-set targets, and thinks 'we can actually make some money here' instead of 'lets try to get every possible sale'.

 

[Gary Whitta]

What all these "for the good of the industry, good games shouldn't bomb" people need to realize that good games almost never bomb... on the Xbox 360. Does anyone honestly believe that Uncharted wouldn't hit a million if it was on Xbox 360? I mean, they bought PREY!

Although on 360 it would have gotten sandwiched in between a whole bunch of other AAA+ titles and possibly lost in the crush.

What's baffling about Uncharted's failure on PS3 is that it had a pretty wide-open field and PS3 users still didn't pick it up in significant numbers. Something is going on here. Either many PS3 buyers are only getting it for Blu-ray, or PS3 gamers have shitty taste in games, or both.

 

[DarrenS]

Any numbers for K&L?

Oh Gawd, I'd forgotten this was filtered. Any numbers for the game that (allegedly) got somebody fired because they wrote a poor review.

You know, sounds a bit like Kayne & Linch

 

[Lefty42o]

well i'm not going to get into a pissing match with you, but open forums are probably supposed to involve discussion, not soapboxing. you can slap as many imho as you want into a post, but that doesn't change the fact that you've dismissed everyone else's opinions and kept hammering away at yours.. and imho that was annoying...

ANYWAY... how about that nintendo DS huh?

:lol

yeah i dismissed every ones opinions. do you not see yourself doing the same thing? hmm thats a thought

 

[Zzoram]

Would it? Even if PS3 could price-match the 360 it would still be at a disadvantage in terms of library/dev support/mindshare etc. If Sony dropped to $350 after Xmas to match the 360 Premium I don't think it would automatically trigger another drop from MS, not at all.

I suspect that it would because the Playstation brand still has a lot of mindshare, if not next-gen marketshare. At least in Europe, they would need the price advantage to keep the pressure on Sony. In addition to that, the added value of a Blu-ray player may become more of a factor in 2008 as the number of HDTVs in homes increases.

Besides, a $50 price cut along with GTA:IV and playing up the exclusive 360 content is probably the smartest thing Microsoft could do in 2008 to ensure they stay the cheapest way to get the best version of GTA:IV. Microsoft wouldn't have paid $50 million for day-and-date release and exclusive content if they didn't think it was critical for winning over the PS2 market. They need to be cheaper than the PS3 to win over a portion of the PS2 market, and Sony is probably going to cut price in Spring before GTA:IV and MGS4 anyways if they hope to ever get 3rd party exclusives ever again.

 

[norinrad21]

Leave Luck To Heaven

 

[Lefty42o]

I suspect that it would because the Playstation brand still has a lot of mindshare, if not next-gen marketshare. At least in Europe, they would need the price advantage to keep the pressure on Sony. In addition to that, the added value of a Blu-ray player may become more of a factor in 2008 as the number of HDTVs in homes increases.

Besides, a $50 price cut along with GTA:IV and playing up the exclusive 360 content is probably the smartest thing Microsoft could do in 2008 to ensure they stay the cheapest way to get the best version of GTA:IV. Microsoft wouldn't have paid $50 million for day-and-date release and exclusive content if they didn't think it was critical for winning over the PS2 market. They need to be cheaper than the PS3 to win over a portion of the PS2 market, and Sony is probably going to cut price in Spring before GTA:IV and MGS4 anyways if they hope to ever get 3rd party exclusives ever again.

exactly

 

[Sean]

Xbox Live has 8 million unique accounts, whereas PSN has 3 million. I bet the "online ratio" is pretty similar.

Eh, those numbers don't tell the whole story. Not all of those 8 million and 3 million are unique users. I know of many people who have multiple gamertags/PSN accounts so they can access the different stores etc.

 

[AniHawk]

NDS - 15.1 million
PSP - 9.44 million
360 - 7.9 million
Wii - 6 million
PS3 - 2.55 million

Looks like PSP will break 10m next month. DS in US may be > DS in Japan at the end of next year.

 

[Gary Whitta]

The fact that the GTA franchise was once the #1 reason to be a Playstation gamer and in 2008 will become the #1 reason to be a 360 gamer says much about why and how Sony is losing this generation.