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Oculus Rift available for preorder for $599.99, shipping in March

Give it a week from launch and I bet Rift games will be running on Vive.

Well if most of the games that interest you are already on the Rift and you don't care about room scale, then there's no point in waiting and spending $200 more. I would buy a Vive also, but right now I feel like I'm seeing a bunch of prototypes than actual games. The devs just seem behind here and the current lineup seems to imply that an April launch was more about not letting Rift beat them to market as opposed to HTC/Valve actually being ready.
 
Well if most of the games that interest you are already on the Rift and you don't care about room scale, then there's no point in waiting and spending $200 more. I would buy a Vive also, but right now I feel like I'm seeing a bunch of prototypes than actual games. The devs just seem behind here and the current lineup seems to imply that an April launch was more about not letting Rift beat them to market as opposed to HTC/Valve actually being ready.

There might be some launch surprises, though, who knows.

An official realese of HL2VR would do wonders.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this.

So basically, even if the frame isn't ready, Oculus will detect how your headset is rotated, and show the last frame, but with the correct rotation? If this is correct, how can Oculus show what should be rendered on the screen with the new rotation? If my character looks right and ATW is needed because the frame isn't ready, how can whatever polygons and textures to the right be shown? Wouldn't each game have to implement something to tell the Oculus drivers what to show?

I must be off somewhere because that doesn't make any sense.

worst case, you'd have a small black area on the right edge, but you probably wouldn't notice it. Ideally devs would predict the direction you're moving based on the initial reading of your direction (and comparing to previous samples), and render a little bit extra in that direction in case ATW is needed.
 

viveks86

Member
I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this.

So basically, even if the frame isn't ready, Oculus will detect how your headset is rotated, and show the last frame, but with the correct rotation? If this is correct, how can Oculus show what should be rendered on the screen with the new rotation? If my character looks right and ATW is needed because the frame isn't ready, how can whatever polygons and textures to the right be shown? Wouldn't each game have to implement something to tell the Oculus drivers what to show?

I must be off somewhere because that doesn't make any sense.

The previous frame i moved in post processing to give the impression of motion in the direction of head movement. Which is why it will work well as long as the frame drops are rare hiccups. Given the frame rates, it's barely noticeable. It's better than losing frames altogether, but nothing like a locked 90 fps.
 

Compsiox

Banned
If your implied conclusion is that anyone who's ordered a Rift over a Vive either lacks knowledge or doesn't care about immersion, then might I recommend heading over to a Vive thread instead of shitting all over this one? Some of us actually know what we're doing.

Nope not at all. He said he was getting one at one point and you're acting like I'm calling him stupid when I'm not. I'm getting a Rift too by the way. He said he specifically didn't care for the walking so stop.
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
He probably hasn't tries VR. Anyone who does knows how much immersion walking and 3D controllers add. Unless he doesnt care about immersion then whatever.

Not having motion controls or walking doesn't necessarily mean immersion isn't possible, especially if you are planning on playing sims with a wheel setup or HOTAS.

Nope not at all. He said he was getting one at one point and you're acting like I'm calling him stupid when I'm not. I'm getting a Rift too by the way. He said he specifically didn't care for the walking so stop.

Your post above definitely came across as "elitist jerk," so tone it down.
 

Compsiox

Banned
Not having motion controls or walking doesn't necessarily mean immersion isn't possible, especially if you are planning on playing sims with a wheel setup or HOTAS.



Your post definitely came across as "elitist jerk," so tone it down.

Well I'm sorry then. Not my intention. I only meant that if he doesn't really care about being fully immersed then I could see why he would switch aside from the software. I guess it was just the wording. Sorry senpai.
 

artsi

Member
Well if most of the games that interest you are already on the Rift and you don't care about room scale, then there's no point in waiting and spending $200 more. I would buy a Vive also, but right now I feel like I'm seeing a bunch of prototypes than actual games. The devs just seem behind here and the current lineup seems to imply that an April launch was more about not letting Rift beat them to market as opposed to HTC/Valve actually being ready.

Yep, that's why I postponed my Vive purchase until there's some must have software. The current launch lineup and what's been displayed in development isn't for me, so I'll enjoy my Rift until then.

Also, if Touch ends up being godlike and the alternative camera setup works without major occlusion problems, I must consider if there's even need for Vive.
 

viveks86

Member
Ideally devs would predict the direction you're moving based on the initial reading of your direction (and comparing to previous samples), and render a little bit extra in that direction in case ATW is needed.

Not sure how ideal that is for all cases. Devs are already pushing real hard to render as little as possible to keep the frame rate locked at 90. Rendering a little more essentially increases the chance of dropping frames. And then using atw to approximate seems like solving a problem that could have been avoided altogether.

It is a great idea for games that have a lot of headroom though. That ensures any OS interrupt could still be handled
 
Well I'm sorry then. Not my intention. I only meant that if he doesn't really care about being fully immersed then I could see why he would switch aside from the software. I guess it was just the wording. Sorry senpai.

You said it again though, if you have a wheel or HOTAS or even controller games and experiences you will still be "fully immersed" while playing in VR.
 

UnrealEck

Member
I saw a guy talking about Vive's games. He has a Vive himself. He basically said even though there's fewer supported games right now, even the demos were enough to keep him entertained for 30 days.
 

viveks86

Member
Well I'm sorry then. Not my intention. I only meant that if he doesn't really care about being fully immersed then I could see why he would switch aside from the software. I guess it was just the wording. Sorry senpai.

You may be sorry. But you are still wrong. You don't need motion controls for full immersion. You need an accurate representation of what you are doing in the game world. And if that's sitting and using a steering wheel, then you don't need motion controls.

A lot of people don't care as much about walking around, but everyone cares about being fully immersed. That's what VR is all about.
 
He probably hasn't tries VR. Anyone who does knows how much immersion walking and 3D controllers add. Unless he doesnt care about immersion then whatever.

I agree with the 3d controllers part. The walking part, it has a fair amount of caveats:

-You already can walk two, three steps with the Rift, with the camera at the optimal distance. Something that people somehow always forget, moving around in 1.5mx2m (something that Vive fans always remind to people it's a possibility in case you don't have an extra room VR) is also possible with the Rift.
-You can walk a bit more with the Vive yeah... but
a) only if you dedicate the room to VR. I don't know how many people are going to do that.
b) usually only 2-3 more of steps, after these extra steps (or even before, depending on room's size!) usually you are going to find a wall, or furniture, unless they have a really big room for VR, and even then the cable will be near its maximum length at that point. Yes there are some cool videos of the Vive in a warehouse but I suppose most people won't have a warehouse??
-At the end of the day, these 2-3 extra steps aren't that important, because both being able to walk for 2 mts or being able to walk for 5mts is the same for VR: incredibly limiting. Vive isn't solving the big elephant in the room: the locomotion problem, unless you pretend to limit VR to from entire worlds to normal sized rooms. In both cases (rift, vive) you are still going to use "crutches" like teleportation systems. Which also have problems because (this was described in the last Tested podcast) you can walk in your room until you reach the chaperone wall, then teleport to a more forward point in the VR room, say in the middle of it, but.. what do you do then? you can't go forward because the physical wall is still in the same place! you need to somehow freeze your position in the game, turn around or go backwards, then unfreeze and go on playing. The freeze, the chaperone appearing, the teleport, it all sounds incredibly immersion breaking to me.
-Add to that the problem of the cable management, which everyone agrees it's a bother as you move a bit, with the cable twisting around yourself as you turn around and things like that.

But people are hyped for a $800 product and invested in it and therefore they have a a bit of blindness to the "cons" that come with the "pros" of the system.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Tasks for the next week before vive arrives
- currently tidying my room and throwing out as much as possible.
- F5 oculus site to see if my status changed
- Go to DIY store and look for a low profile light fitment to replace current pendant light. A sturdy one.
- F5
- donate sofa bed to charity (they collect so thats handy)
- F5
- rearrange remaining furniture to give 2x2m minimum space, and 3m x 2m extended space
- F5
 

Compsiox

Banned
Tasks for the next week before vive arrives
- currently tidying my room and throwing out as much as possible.
- F5 oculus site to see if my status changed
- Go to DIY store and look for a low profile light fitment to replace current pendant light. A sturdy one.
- F5
- donate sofa bed to charity (they collect so thats handy)
- F5
- rearrange remaining furniture to give 2x2m minimum space, and 3m x 2m extended space
- F5

F5 for more space
 
What are the chances I can order a Rift later this year and have it a week later? Or am I fucked until 2018 or something?

I think they'll be more readily available after July since that's where the pre-order backlog has been at for a while now. Unless it magically blows up in the mainstream some time between now and then, you should be good after that.
 
Was the ATW article posted? It's pretty good

https://developer.oculus.com/blog/asynchronous-timewarp-on-oculus-rift/

Getting this right took a lot of work. Modern PC GPU hardware and software are optimized for very high throughput, but not for preemption. Windows and several recent GPUs have had basic support for GPU preemption, but when we first tried to use it, it did not work well in practice. Over the last year, we have worked closely with Microsoft, NVIDIA, and AMD to change OS GPU scheduling, GPU command processor microcode, and GPU kernel driver design to enable ATW. Graphics driver VR extensions in the form of AMD’s Liquid VR and NVIDIA’s VRWorks were developed to support this.

Benefits
The user experiences much smoother virtual reality with ATW. Early measurements of Rift launch titles running without ATW showed apps missing ~5% of their frames. ATW is able to fill in for the majority of these misses, resulting in judder reduction of 20-100x. This functionality comes at no performance cost to the application and requires no code changes. And, this is only the beginning — we are working with partners to improve the effectiveness of ATW going forward.

Looking forward
ATW will improve as VR drives the PC ecosystem forward. Microsoft Windows 10 build 10586.164 includes features stemming from our collaboration with Microsoft and was designed with virtual reality in mind. While ATW operates well on Windows 7 and 8, you’ll find the most efficient path and best experience on the latest version of Windows 10.

Advances in GPUs will improve on graphics performance and preemption capabilities for ATW. And as hardware evolves, we expect efficiency and latency to continue to improve, providing an even better experience.
 
giphy-downsized-large.gif


Is it here yet?
 

Seiru

Banned
I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this.

So basically, even if the frame isn't ready, Oculus will detect how your headset is rotated, and show the last frame, but with the correct rotation? If this is correct, how can Oculus show what should be rendered on the screen with the new rotation? If my character looks right and ATW is needed because the frame isn't ready, how can whatever polygons and textures to the right be shown? Wouldn't each game have to implement something to tell the Oculus drivers what to show?

I must be off somewhere because that doesn't make any sense.

You have to remember that these missed frames are just that: frames. 1/90th of a second. Even if you're turning your head super fast, there would only be a tiny bit of missing screen on the edge of the display where you're turning. And then, it will be rendered within another 1/90th of a second or so.
 

Bunta

Fujiwara Tofu Shop
If I preorder now, do I still get the xb1 controller and games? Also, do they not charge until they ship the Rift?
 

MizzouRah

Member
If I preorder now, do I still get the xb1 controller and games? Also, do they not charge until they ship the Rift?

Yes to the controller -- that's standard. The games should still be a part of it as long as it is a pre-order (before March 28th).

Also, as long as you don't pay with PayPal (correct me if I'm wrong), it charges when it ships.
 

Bunta

Fujiwara Tofu Shop
Yes to the controller -- that's standard. The games should still be a part of it as long as it is a pre-order (before March 28th).

Also, as long as you don't pay with PayPal (correct me if I'm wrong), it charges when you ship.

Yes, you still get all that: https://shop.oculus.com

And they won't charge until they ship.
Correct. Although they may charge immediately if you use Paypal, I'm not sure.


Sweet, thanks.
 

LaneDS

Member
I agree with the 3d controllers part. The walking part, it has a fair amount of caveats:

-You already can walk two, three steps with the Rift, with the camera at the optimal distance. Something that people somehow always forget, moving around in 1.5mx2m (something that Vive fans always remind to people it's a possibility in case you don't have an extra room VR) is also possible with the Rift.
-You can walk a bit more with the Vive yeah... but
a) only if you dedicate the room to VR. I don't know how many people are going to do that.
b) usually only 2-3 more of steps, after these extra steps (or even before, depending on room's size!) usually you are going to find a wall, or furniture, unless they have a really big room for VR, and even then the cable will be near its maximum length at that point. Yes there are some cool videos of the Vive in a warehouse but I suppose most people won't have a warehouse??
-At the end of the day, these 2-3 extra steps aren't that important, because both being able to walk for 2 mts or being able to walk for 5mts is the same for VR: incredibly limiting. Vive isn't solving the big elephant in the room: the locomotion problem, unless you pretend to limit VR to from entire worlds to normal sized rooms. In both cases (rift, vive) you are still going to use "crutches" like teleportation systems. Which also have problems because (this was described in the last Tested podcast) you can walk in your room until you reach the chaperone wall, then teleport to a more forward point in the VR room, say in the middle of it, but.. what do you do then? you can't go forward because the physical wall is still in the same place! you need to somehow freeze your position in the game, turn around or go backwards, then unfreeze and go on playing. The freeze, the chaperone appearing, the teleport, it all sounds incredibly immersion breaking to me.
-Add to that the problem of the cable management, which everyone agrees it's a bother as you move a bit, with the cable twisting around yourself as you turn around and things like that.

But people are hyped for a $800 product and invested in it and therefore they have a a bit of blindness to the "cons" that come with the "pros" of the system.

Solid post. I think games designed for "room scale" are going to be few and far between due to a lot of the caveats you described. There's certainly a place for them, and I'm sure they're awesome, but I have a real hard time imagining them as the standard for VR going forward.
 

Krakn3Dfx

Member
Just a note, I think if you use Paypal Credit, the charge won't be added to your Paypal Credit account until Oculus pushes the charge through when it ships, so that may be a good option for anyone planning to use Paypal but didn't want to be charged automatically.
 
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