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[PhoenixDark]

This thread getting bumped is always a sign that ADWD has NOT yet been finished.

Yup. We'll get a new thread when the ADWD release date is announced. I can't help but be optimistic. It sounded like he believed he could possibly finish the book last year before the summer conventions; obviously that didn't happen and he's been working on it ever since...so he's GOT to be close.

 

[tokkun]

Yup. We'll get a new thread when the ADWD release date is announced. I can't help but be optimistic. It sounded like he believed he could possibly finish the book last year before the summer conventions; obviously that didn't happen and he's been working on it ever since...so he's GOT to be close.

It was something like March or April when he was still saying that he thought he could be finished by June. That's like 2-3 month. It is now 10 months later. When something is taking more than 4-5 times longer than you originally estimated, you have to wonder whether any progress is being made or if he is just throwing things out and starting over.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I think he's just been watching football during the past months. Hopefully he'll get back to work after the Superbowl. My only hope is that the series is done before he dies. Also if the upcoming series is a success I have a feeling it's going to get to the last book/season before he does.

 

[StoOgE]

I think he's just been watching football during the past months. Hopefully he'll get back to work after the Superbowl. My only hope is that the series is done before he dies. Also if the upcoming series is a success I have a feeling it's going to get to the last book/season before he does.

That is why I had not started reading these yet, but was spurred on by people telling me how great they are. I didn't want to start until I knew it would end.

 

[PhoenixDark]

As I just said, yes. And that ASOIAF fans seem to rally around Jon (For a reason I do not understand, unless it's because the events that surround him are interesting. But the character himself? Arya, Jaime, Tyrion, Catelyn, Sansa are the characters that make ASOAIF what it is)

Maybe I should give Martin more credit. Maybe he's doing this on purpose, and

Spoiler

And yes, Jon will turn out to be the son

but something will happen to SHATTER this. Sorry, too much 'chosen one' rubbish seems to be happening with Jon.

Agreed. Jon is a good character, I always like his POVs...but he's no Tyrion or any of the better characters. I didn't know he was so popular until I visited the Westeros message board.

ASOS spoiler

Spoiler

Everyone there takes for granted the idea that Jon is Robb's heir, which is quite odd. We don't know for sure who the heir is, and the fact that it was done "off camera" so to speak should cast doubts on Jon's chances. And even if he was the heir, would he leave the Wall? The entire heir issue is perhaps the thing I'm most interested in learning.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Agreed. Jon is a good character, I always like his POVs...but he's no Tyrion or any of the better characters. I didn't know he was so popular until I visited the Westeros message board.

ASOS spoiler

Spoiler

Everyone there takes for granted the idea that Jon is Robb's heir, which is quite odd. We don't know for sure who the heir is, and the fact that it was done "off camera" so to speak should cast doubts on Jon's chances. And even if he was the heir, would he leave the Wall? The entire heir issue is perhaps the thing I'm most interested in learning.

Spoiler

I kind of assumed that Jon was made heir. I think it was mentioned that Catelyn was still pissed that he didn't listen to her, but that he was a king now and had to make his own decisions. And weren't some people sent north with the message declaring the heir? I could be wrong as I havn't read the book in forever and don't have a copy handy.

Even if he was made heir I don't think he'd leave the wall. He had his chance and didn't take it, and I think he would make the same choice even if the offering came from a better source than Stannis.

 

[Future PhaZe]

Jon Snow

Spoiler

is one of my favorite characters. Jaime is my favorite, but Jon is something of a tragic character. He was never treated as "one of the family" and Cates distaste for him was obvious. He was never accepted by nobles, and as a noble wasn't accepted initially by those who wore the black. He knows everything of honor more than any other fool in the series and he's paid for every decision he's made dearly. He's grown more than almost anyone in the books. He's grown into a true soldier who thinks realistically and can set his feelings aside for the greater purpose. He is more so than anyone left in the books (Daenerys included) the only one fit to rule and the one who is concerned with the true enemy.

 

[Chris R]

More Jon

Spoiler

Even if he was declared the new ruler, is there anything that he can do about it now since he is with the Night Watch? I mean I guess that Robb could have absolved his lifetime of services as he was the King in the North (would he even have that power?)...Not that I have any better idea as to what the note really contained.

 

[Fafalada]

Jon Snow

Spoiler

is one of my favorite characters. Jaime is my favorite, but Jon is something of a tragic character.

Spoiler

The constant repeating of "never accepted, always noble" is what made Jon rather boring for first few books. It got better after they sent him to spy and he actually had to start making hard moral choices, but on the flipside, now he's just turned into another Rob(or his father, by extension), except a few years older and without mother's love and not missing a head.
I do like him better now then early on though, for what's worth. But well, that goes for almost every character that had any appreciable character development - other then Cathelyn. Still undecided about Daenerys.

 

[Nore]

So I was reading up the last few chapters (I have 3 chapters left, please don't spoil in a reply to this), in the Arianne chapter, Doran Martell said

Spoiler

something to the effect that she was promised to someone in marriage but he was killed...something about molten gold. I can only assume she was promised to Viserys Targaryen? A lot of families want to restore that bloodline to the thrown it seems.

I don't expect any happy endings though. Martin has ripped out my soul again and again after getting attached to characters.

 

[Learn2read]

I'm starting to get worried that GRRM doesn't care about finishing up this series, and perhaps doesn't have a solid endgame in his mind.

 

[whytemyke]

almost done with the first book. simply awesome stuff.

i just got to the part where tyrion meets up with his father. i usually don't really dig fantasy (always opting for sci fi) but this stuff is so well written that i don't even care.

 

[whytemyke]

by the way, amazon has a hardcover release date for october, 2009 for the fifth book. haven't scoured the thread here but is that legit?

 

[sazabirules]

by the way, amazon has a hardcover release date for october, 2009 for the fifth book. haven't scoured the thread here but is that legit?

If that's true, I'm so mad. This book needs to come out already.

 

[Brian Fellows]

by the way, amazon has a hardcover release date for october, 2009 for the fifth book. haven't scoured the thread here but is that legit?

I seem to remember them having release dates for the book before. Hopefully this one sticks. One has to eventually right?

 

[Future PhaZe]

I'm starting to get worried that GRRM doesn't care about finishing up this series, and perhaps doesn't have a solid endgame in his mind.

I don't agree about the end game. I think there are a ton of options that he could take to finish this thing up. The only question is if his lack of exploration on the Others might force him to add another book to the series to flesh out their defeat or whatever has to be done to get them more actively involved if that's his intention.

My concern is that this series just won't be finished period. Dragons will probably be done this year (didn't say it would release :\), but unless George comes out and tells us that he's finished up half of the book after Dragons then we may have to wait until Obama is out of office before even thinking about the release for that

 

[IJoel]

So, I finished reading A Clash of Kings last Sunday morning, and what did I do? Run to grab A Storm of Swords and start reading it. I HAD to know how it would continue. I'm hopelessly hooked, and don't even want to consider the notion that I'll very soon catch up with the Author and have to wait for the next book.

The first one I thought was brilliant. Thrones simply grabs and doesn't let go. On the other hand Kings isn't quite as engaging (though it gets much better towards the second half), yet it's still very very successful in advancing the story and growing the characters. Anyway, Swords seems to have started stronger than Kings, and I look forward to continue reading it. At the pace I'm going, I figure I'll finish reading it quite soon.

I'll put my thoughts on some characters in a later post. I love how the story is exposed through the characters.

 

[Clipjoint]

You're just starting Storm of Swords? Kiss your innocence goodbye.

 

[traveler]

Ooh, totally forgot about this series. Meant to give it a try a few weeks ago but was busy reading the Road, so I decided to wait. Well, guess I can start now. (Or try to give the author a little more lead time- seems like he's taking a while with this thing.)

 

[whytemyke]

I'm always so nervous to peek in here when this thread is bumped. I always click spoilers despite myself and get sad. Amazon spoiled Game of Thrones for me

Spoiler

("Robb Stark, King of the North")

and now that I'm onto Clash of Kings I know that if I keep coming in here I'll get spoiled some more. Damn yous alls!

 

[StoOgE]

So, I'm just over halfway through Storm of Swords...

FUCK THIS GOD DAMN SERIES

Spoiler

Here is this nice family, we are going to spend the entire first book showing you how good they are, how honorable the whole lot of them is. We are also going to show you this vile evil family and make you hate their guts.

We are going to end the first book with the Starks taking control of the North and winning victories against the Lannisters. The rest of the series is dedicated to the family you hate fucking over the family you like. Enjoy!

I mean really, does anything ever go right for the Starks? Most of them are dead or dying at this point or at the wall. Fucking hell.

BTW, Robb and Cat were just killed by Bolton and the Frey's, and Arya just took an axe in the back of the head from Sandor Clegane, but I don't know if she is dead or not since he has been a generally helpful guy as of late. At this point I don't see any way that this turns out well for the Starks. I know that John is now King in the North, but he is busy fighting dead guys. I'm sure they'll kill him off too.

 

[Brian Fellows]

So, I'm just over halfway through Storm of Swords...

FUCK THIS GOD DAMN SERIES

Spoiler

I know that John is now King in the North, but he is busy fighting dead guys.

Is he?

 

[StoOgE]

Is he?

Spoiler

well, I kind of get the feeling that his uncle was the guy riding the stag that just saved Sam.. and he might also be dead, but I don't know... and I don't know if John will be the king in the North or not, but Robb made him heir before Robb got killed

 

[RamzaIsCool]

Spoiler

well, I kind of get the feeling that his uncle was the guy riding the stag that just saved Sam.. and he might also be dead, but I don't know... and I don't know if John will be the king in the North or not, but Robb made him heir before Robb got killed

It's Jon and not John

Anyway here is a nifty twist for you:

Spoiler

Lyanna (ned's sister) and Raegar (Dany's big bro) had a son before they both died...so Dany isn't the only Targaryen left! hmmm who could that be?

 

[StoOgE]

It's Jon and not John

Anyway here is a nifty twist for you:

Spoiler

Lyanna (ned's sister) and Raegar (Dany's big bro) had a son before they both died...so Dany isn't the only Targaryen left! hmmm who could that be?

Spoiler

I actually guessed that in the first book. Ned kept talking about "the promise" that he made to Lyanna.. which I assumed was to protect Jon from Aeyers. But he was still a bastard Targaryen... but maybe Robb's letter giving Jon the rights of an heir could fix that problem?

Plus, Danny doesn't have an heir and can't bear children, so it makes sense that there is another way to extend that line

 

[Stinkles]

I'm starting to get worried that GRRM doesn't care about finishing up this series, and perhaps doesn't have a solid endgame in his mind.

He could end it with someone standing on the wall, surveying his Kingdom, and that would be fine. Not worried about the endgame - only the carnage at half time.

 

[EviLore]

I'm not so much concerned as nearly devoid of remaining interest.


A Game of Thrones (1996)
A Clash of Kings (1998)
A Storm of Swords (2000)
A Feast for Crows (2005)

10 (+?) years for a full continuation of the events of Storm of Swords. We're fucked.

 

[Chris R]

It's Jon and not John

Anyway here is a nifty twist for you:

Spoiler

Lyanna (ned's sister) and Raegar (Dany's big bro) had a son before they both died...so Dany isn't the only Targaryen left! hmmm who could that be?

Wait, is that somewhere in the book, or are you just guessing that is what happened? I don't remember reading that in any of the books, though it does make sense, and is probably the case.

 

[RamzaIsCool]

Wait, is that somewhere in the book, or are you just guessing that is what happened? I don't remember reading that in any of the books, though it does make sense, and is probably the case.

nope...but there are a lot of clues. Anyway if you want to read up on the subject, check this:
http://www.towerofthehand.com/essays/chrisholden/jon_snows_parents.html

Ohh and when I was searching for that I came across this:
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/40001

Awesome.

 

[Learn2read]

I'm usually against fans of anything DEMANDING that it's creator hurry the frig up, but seriously GRRM, c'mon?

Any worries about the "endgame" are mostly concerns that the larger story of the incoming Others has been pushed so far to the side, yet appears to be the main thrust of the story that I'm kinda worried that he doesn't quite know what to do with it.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I'm not so much concerned as nearly devoid of remaining interest.


A Game of Thrones (1996)
A Clash of Kings (1998)
A Storm of Swords (2000)
A Feast for Crows (2005)

10 (+?) years for a full continuation of the events of Storm of Swords. We're fucked.

The series pops into my head all the time but I just stay away from re-reading the books; don't want to get my hopes up.

btw I was listening to this interview with Martin. It's mainly about the licensing process of his various franchises through gaming and film. It's interesting how passionate and excited he sounds while talking about RPGs, but once they ask about ASOIAF all that energy evaporates. It truly sounds like his head isn't into the series
http://grrm.livejournal.com/70070.html

 

[RamzaIsCool]

Don't worry guys...do as I do. Just accept the story will have an open ending.

how open? that remains to be seen

Spoiler

how long GRRM heart holds

.

 

[Future PhaZe]

I'm not so much concerned as nearly devoid of remaining interest.


A Game of Thrones (1996)
A Clash of Kings (1998)
A Storm of Swords (2000)
A Feast for Crows (2005)

10 (+?) years for a full continuation of the events of Storm of Swords. We're fucked.

True

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

The series pops into my head all the time but I just stay away from re-reading the books; don't want to get my hopes up.

btw I was listening to this interview with Martin. It's mainly about the licensing process of his various franchises through gaming and film. It's interesting how passionate and excited he sounds while talking about RPGs, but once they ask about ASOIAF all that energy evaporates. It truly sounds like his head isn't into the series
http://grrm.livejournal.com/70070.html

Yeah, he seems a lot more interested in anything that does not have to do with him actually writing the books. The only way this series gets done in Martin's lifetime is if the TV series actually takes off and he's forced to finish the books in order to continue the tv series. He actually seems excited about the TV series.

 

[funk0ar]

Hey guys the script for the pilot tv series has been leaked

http://termopilas.tales-tra.com/users/parsec/Pilot_script.pdf

 

[shintoki]

The series pops into my head all the time but I just stay away from re-reading the books; don't want to get my hopes up.

btw I was listening to this interview with Martin. It's mainly about the licensing process of his various franchises through gaming and film. It's interesting how passionate and excited he sounds while talking about RPGs, but once they ask about ASOIAF all that energy evaporates. It truly sounds like his head isn't into the series
http://grrm.livejournal.com/70070.html

I said it before

Its near 10years for one book(Which became two..) While it was 4years between the first 3 releases. He just seems to always put it on the backpeddle. My guess is either to milk it for all its worth or just doesn't have any idea on what to do. He just doesn't seem into making the book anymore. Which is really crappy for fans of the series.

 

[Future PhaZe]

Yea he's clearly caught up in a lot of things and taking a lot of unnecessary time off. I don't think he sounded negative about the Song discussion in the podcast, but he clearly doesn't seem to be in any sort of a rush.

What's amazing to me is his huge dedication to literature in general but the severe lack of work that's gone into Dance. His blog is always updated about various collaborations as well as work from a number of writers but there is never anything about Song. I can understand a dis-interest in writing in general, but to continue to work on a variety of projects and be so deep into the writing world without bringing a concentrated effort on your biggest project is mind boggling.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Having to scrap the initial idea concerning the 5 year gap can't be the only thing holding the series up. It's like he's trapped. The series is obviously epic, and as it gets bigger it only makes sense for the process to become longer. But that challenge needs to be met head on with some passion, dammit. The way he handled the last delay (where he dismissively mentioned he didn't finish the books, and then headed off to the 08 summer conventions) left a bad taste in my mouth. IIRC he skipped the conventions in 07 to continue working on the book

I have a feeling we'll be having the same discussion in summer 09

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

The script is pretty good and I really like the added scenes. The only thing I don't really care for is the intro. The changes they made to the intro make it alot weaker than what was in the book in my opinion. But still a really good start, hope it goes through to series.

Oh I guess one other thing I didn't like is one of changes made to one of Joff's lines.

Spoiler

He no longer says "Leave the children to their frolics." or something like that which I liked in the book. Seems more insulting to Robb that way than what was in the script.

 

[suffah]

Here's a REALISTIC timetable, IMO:

* A Game of Thrones (1996)
* A Clash of Kings (1998)
* A Storm of Swords (2000)
* A Feast for Crows (2005)
* A Dance with Dragons (2010)
* The Winds of Winter (2016)
* A Dream of Spring (2022)

He was born in 1948. In 2022, Georgie will be 74. Fuck me.

For reference, here he is FIVE YEARS AGO (2004)!

 

[The Spacepope]

If the series still can be completed in 7 books. It was a trilogy from the beginning after all.

 

[Ikael]

It happens to every writter. Sometimes you just get tired of writting about a certain theme, subject or series. It is not as if he has lost the passion for writting, but rather that what begun as a work of passion now has become a chore for him. Which is pretty understandable: the more the story advanced the more complex it got and the harder is to keep the coherence and continuity of it. Sometimes I try to imagine what it would be like to write such a series and Jesus, I would end up devoting half of my time just to correct my own mistakes. Such a work does not bode well for passion. Yet even if I can understand him, Jesus, we do need A dance with the dragons. I dont know, perhaps he should seek help in order to write it? Collaborators and "beta testers" can do wonders in order to motivate yourself for finishing books.

 

[Scribble]

Dance of Dragons could be 'TV Series only', at the worst =P

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Here's a REALISTIC timetable, IMO:

* A Game of Thrones (1996)
* A Clash of Kings (1998)
* A Storm of Swords (2000)
* A Feast for Crows (2005)
* A Dance with Dragons (2010)
* The Winds of Winter (2016)
* A Dream of Spring (2022)

I still hold out

Spoiler

false

hope that A Dance with Dragons will come out this year. So maybe that will save us a year, which would be nice. Ahh I remember when he said he'd have Dance out in year since half of it was already written.

And yeah, he probably is tired of writing the series.

 

[StoOgE]

Just finished Storm of Swords...

Spoiler

GREAT ending. Tyrion fucking wrecking shop, Jon is in charge of the wall, Stannis is in the North helping fight the others, looks like Mance and company will move South of the wall to help fight.

Cat is undead just like Beric. Seems clear to me that Beric is the true "lord of light" that Stannis claims to be.

All pretty good stuff. I wonder if Arya and Tyrion will meet up in the free cities in the next one.

I'm kind of bummed that the next book takes place in the South to be honest. My favorite stories (and charachters) are all on or North of the wall right now.

The soap opera stuff in Kings landing is good, but I'm mostly disinterested by the Twins after they killed Jon.

Onto the next book

 

[StoOgE]

Dance of Dragons could be 'TV Series only', at the worst =P

you know, writing the last 3 books as a script would be much easier for him than writing full fledged novels. If the TV show is a success maybe he plans on finishing it that way?

 

[Solideliquid]

Amazon.com is now displaying a release date "This title will be released on September 29, 2009."

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0553801473/?tag=neogaf0e-20

 

[Brian Fellows]

Seems clear to me that Beric is the true "lord of light" that Stannis claims to be.

Not even close. Thoros could have done that for anyone.

The soap opera stuff in Kings landing is good, but I'm mostly disinterested by the Twins after they killed Jon.

Say what?

 

[Binabik15]

Argh, don´t bump it! My heart! Okay, now I can post without people getting mad at me

I´m reading the series again (fourth or fifth time), almost finished with swords now and boy, the wedding always gets me. So...evil. Why did he do that to me?! Okay, pretty much everything that happens is hinted at throughout the series, it´s funny if you re-read it.

I´m not expecting to read Dragons in my life time anymore, so if it´s ever finished, consider me surprised. I bet it´s because he killed or split up all the couples and without sex scenes he just lost interest:lol

A Feast for Crows will be a more relaxed read, all the horrible stuff happened and no favourites are killed. Refreshing. I like the "slower" pacing, fleshing out Westeros etc with "side" characters, yes I´m THAT nerdy. And

Spoiler

Arya as supreme assassin

YES PLEASE! I still don´t like Jaime, though. He had a hard life, but he´s still a ruthless Lannister.

 

[Scribble]

The only reason I want to read Feast for Crows is for

Spoiler

Cersei's

viewpoints. On one hand, I'm pleased that

Spoiler

That Martin doesn't redeem her evilness just because she's viewpoint

, but on the other hand

Spoiler

I hoped to see another side to her. But I guess some people are really that nasty.

I wonder how fun her chapters will really be, though, considering how

Spoiler

Theon's viewpoint went

. I went from thinking he was all cool and badass in the first book, to hating him in the second (And that's even before the event at the end. I hated him because his viewpoints emphasised just how arrogant he was), although that was the point.