TheBaronOfNA
Banned
This.
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(ONM) Senran Kagura Burst is damaging the industry - here's how to stop it
- Thread starter studyguy
- Start date
This.
I've mailed the marketing director of Marvelous AQL Europe and explained the issue/misinterpretation. I also said there are plenty of fans looking forward to the game. I don't know if it will reach Japan, but I hope they just know that their fanbase is still looking forward to play the game on the 3DS.
I think that's more retailers de facto forced it there. Nintendo probably wouldn't get in the way, at worst they may be forced to change the cover and that's more either due to ESRB or to placate the likes of Walmart and Best Buy (and ironically I kind of expect the Japanese cover WOULD be fine with minor edits at worst), though if SK Burst really is successful enough I can see XSEED successfully getting the sequel sold physically through the likes of GameStop and Amazon afterall.
They probably pay more attention to sales really, if articles like these were enough cause to jump ship we'd have seen a very different Dragon's Crown (or not at all!)I've mailed the marketing director of Marvelous AQL Europe and explained the issue/misinterpretation. I also said there are plenty of fans looking forward to the game. I don't know if it will reach Japan, but I hope they just know that their fanbase is still looking forward to play the game on the 3DS.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
These games have really fleshed out and awesome characters so the 'we need more independent and powerful women in games' is actually being implemented here. These games should be awesome from a feminist perspective I would think from that front.
I sort of get the argument for photoshop models and stuff like that contributing to bad body images in women and that being harmful, but I just don't get it when it comes to anime style stuff. I mean, if people are looking at stuff like this:
And feeling bad about how they can't look like that, I think that there's something strange and not with the game.
I mean, who thinks that after watching DBZ:
The art and animation are ridiculous and that's the point. That's the reason a lot of people like them. They aren't supposed to resemble reality.
I don't think it's about body image problems so much that it's about the lack of a female perspective.
because both DBZ and Senran Kagura are both series created by men for men. With DBZ the dudes look jacked because that's what men like their heroes to look like.
and the Senran Kagura girls look like they do because well
That's how the male creators and the male audience like their female characters to look and act.
The problem is that games in general overwhelmingly are like this. Not to this extent but catering towards the male perspective.
on an individual level it's easy to ignore something like this if you don't like it. The problem is the lack of alternatives and that's what these female perspective articles should be focusing on. Not attacking individual games for existing.
Yeah, I'm curious to see how that franchise will do on the 3DS here in Europe. It'll be very niche, but I think it has a pretty high chance of reaching or exceeding their expectations.
"There are a lot of things I enjoy in life, but devoting time into trivial matters or things I don't understand is the most pointless thing ever."
Yep, I mean I was fine with the magazine making fun of Hull but if it could end up costing them third party series then they need to be put on a tight leash.
I would rather have the real woman, who seem to be happy jumping up and down. *sigh* She is so beautiful.
She is 18 and over right?
Sounds like he's staying quiet on the topic, which is good since the last thing we need is another Dragon Crown fiasco.
akidnamededdy
Banned
Thiiiiiiis. Seriously.
Shouldn't be encouraging the blogger.
If you're talking specifically about anime, there's plenty of series/manga that is aimed at females.
Just google "bishounen", "shounen ai", or "yaoi". Anime/manga is the last place feminists need to target when it comes to equality.
lmao. Love how everyone gets dressed up, but the middle girl's thong gets smaller.
No, that comment is from another dude called Ryuzaki. I know him from another site, he hates Nintendo yet still continues to buy 3DS games and such.
Glorious PSVita gaming master race
I don't think it's about body image problems so much that it's about the lack of a female perspective.
because both DBZ and Senran Kagura are both series created by men for men. With DBZ the dudes look jacked because that's what men like their heroes to look like.
and the Senran Kagura girls look like they do because well
That's how the male creators and the male audience like their female characters to look and act.
The problem is that games in general overwhelmingly are like this. Not to this extent but catering towards the male perspective.
BTW why is this such a problem? The reason they cater is because it sells. They know the demographic.
Why do boy bands and dweebs like Justin Beiber exist? What about TV shows like Desperate Housewifes, Gossip Girl, Gray's Anatomy? How about other media like Twilight and 50 Shades of Gray?
They cater to specifically to females yet I don't hear any uproar about these things at all.
actually I don't agree. If that somebody is a fictional character I don't see any issue with it whatsoever, even if their purpose in the end is nothing more than to be objectified by the player. I do mind if it doesn't fit the context or is sloppily done but that's a completely different problem.
Now personally I don't find that kind of characters to be interesting very often but it can serve a good purpose to use characters as dehumanized symbols in some settings.
The only legitimate problem is if female characters aren't allowed the same space as male characters to be properly characterized overall looking at all games. But that's a multi layered problem and the only effective solution I see to remedying it is to get more women into the industry. It's the same as with having more ethnicities represented.
And even then if most core gamers are male, then maybe it's balanced within it's own system anyway.
that can be debated
talking about japanese anime/manga and even games to some extent I don't think there is a lack of female perspective/characterization.I don't think it's about body image problems so much that it's about the lack of a female perspective.
because both DBZ and Senran Kagura are both series created by men for men. With DBZ the dudes look jacked because that's what men like their heroes to look like.
and the Senran Kagura girls look like they do because well
That's how the male creators and the male audience like their female characters to look and act.
The problem is that games in general overwhelmingly are like this. Not to this extent but catering towards the male perspective.
on an individual level it's easy to ignore something like this if you don't like it. The problem is the lack of alternatives and that's what these female perspective articles should be focusing on. Not attacking individual games for existing.
For some reason these type of threads pick at me. It becomes a bit personal since I feel like I'm being attacked for liking the type of stuff I do.
I like a fair of ecchi and fan service in my anime. I like boobs, cleavage, and a few scantily clad women in my games. (I.E. see most of the women from Dragon Age and Mass Effect)
People call this stuff sexist, oversexualized, objectifying, and proceed to call whoever likes it "pathetic, otaku, sad, lowest common denominator, and man children"
Whenever I read this stuff it offends me and I often don't comment on most of these threads since I might end up saying something that could potentially get me banned.
I don't want to feel guilty, ashamed, or put down for favoring things other people may feel is weird or creepy
I like a fair of ecchi and fan service in my anime. I like boobs, cleavage, and a few scantily clad women in my games. (I.E. see most of the women from Dragon Age and Mass Effect)
People call this stuff sexist, oversexualized, objectifying, and proceed to call whoever likes it "pathetic, otaku, sad, lowest common denominator, and man children"
Whenever I read this stuff it offends me and I often don't comment on most of these threads since I might end up saying something that could potentially get me banned.
I don't want to feel guilty, ashamed, or put down for favoring things other people may feel is weird or creepy
Rather than askng this you should ask if the movie Nymphomaniac damages the movie industry.
They think they know what's best for everyone and how the world works. But they don't know shit.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
Thats a pretty mature way of looking at this given how toxic can be both outspoken sides of the debate.
Again, kudos for him for being honest...
Because these things aren't part of an all-too-typical narrative that shows females as liberated of the burdens of thought and personality. Things marketed towards women, while themselves patronizing like things targeted towards men (not sure why more men aren't angry about this, personally), don't have a history of resting heavily on sexual objectification.
The ego power fantasy stuff goes both ways (see Dragon Ball Z). The excessive objectification and reduction to just a few different types of roles -- none of them particularly flattering --　doesn't.
Night Angel
Member
Since I've never heard of it, I'm gonna answer "no."
Probably because it s absolutely not important, irrelevant and meaningless ?
maybe the staff of ONM should think before approving hyperbolic stuff like that
What are you referring to, exactly?
SolidSnakex
Member
Well, are there any "Official" mags in Japan? I know that there's stuff like Dengeki Playstation, but i've never heard of Official mags like we have in the west. So, I guess it isn't too surprising that he may think that it's something coming straight from Nintendo.
Those shows/movies/people are routinely hated on by males.
They aren't considered demeaning and even if they were no one would care because sexism is purely about women.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
He seemed to shrugh it off.
Well, the Mags in Japan are kind in the extreme side of advertensing and "helping" the local developers.
First five min of her turning on the newest tomb raider she turns to me and asks "where the fuck did her huge silly boobs go? At least she's still hot."
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Games and Anime and Manga are 3 different things each with their own unique problems
We're talking about games here
Well I use the word problem because I think lack of perspective and diversity is a problem
but really what it is is an aggregate trend. It's up to the individual how they want to interpret it and react to it, but it's purpose is to identify it.
as for your examples, again you're listing individual examples. That's the problem with articles like this, as well as discussions about said articles.
I don't know if you're referring to me, but I'm not trying to do any such thing.
Can women like it? Sure. Just like men are free to like My Little Pony. Doesn't change that the show was created with little girls in mind, just like Senran Kagura is a series designed to appeal to a certain type of typically male audience.
I think there definitely is for games, and it's not surprising given that majority of people responsible for making them are male. So obviously alot of them are going to make things that they would like or that are influenced by their experiences
Again you're looking at things as if everything is just an isolated incident in a vacuum completely independent of the things around it.
All I'm asking is that if people are going to participate in these discussions, they have to be able to look at the bigger picture, notice the trends right in front of them and reflect even for a minute on what they possibly could mean. That's how this works.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
This is correct. Still, is always interesting when pheriperal demographics are untentionally created and how it adapts.
Ate least, to the franchise credit. it seems that the games are really trying to be better on characterization than other fanservice driven franchises like DOA or CompileHeart Stuff.
TBH I think that comes with the territory. Men are stimulated visually for the most part.
Also, let's not act like romance novels (at least on the covers), boy bands, and female-targeted tv shows, soap operas, and movies aren't filled with unhumanly hot guys fitting a personally type that women find attractive.
Don't see how that's any different from "pandering" to men.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
I also liked it.
( And I should probably try Bayonetta 1 and 2 (when it comes out) in a neutral but welcoming perspective.)
It's different because it just so happens that men have a history of repressing women and that the image that marketers want men to like about women happens to portray them as strong only when being strong is sexually appealing, a likeness that evidently few women feel like identifying with.
The argument that there is a totally equal counterpart to this acting on men is invalid for other reasons, too. The socioeconomic implications of being a women weigh heavily into this (as they always do); specifically relevant is the resounding success of the women's cosmetics industry and all of the self-esteem reducing bullshit that goes with it.
I agree. Sex object characters are okay, but right now there is that pushing back against any sex oriented character due to the lack of actual characters. Too much boobs make the boobs less sweet.
All games intrigue me. I love games. I've beaten hundreds of them and will likely beat hundreds more. But this kind of shit is off-putting and unnecessary. Not only does it not need to be there, but it just contributes to perpetuating a negative thing at little benefit to anyone.
To you, maybe. Plenty of people like the game and others like it, and they'll continue to be made.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
I think games (and books, and music, etc..,) should not be limited like that.
But I also agree that we need to be critical about the stuff that is developed and how they portray the reality.
And in the end, trying not to deal with absolutes but arguments.
LOL. I actually think her thong gets smaller because her ass gets bigger. Lol. I showed that gif to my wife, and she thought it was incredibly amusing.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
I still maintain that negative reactions to an abundance of sexualized representations of women in any particular medium is an indication that the medium is healthy with a broad consumer demographic. We don't get the benefit of video games being a hugely successful, mass-appealing medium without it being more closely scrutinized by broader subsets of the culture at large.
Promoting niche variety is a worthy goal, and so is being inclusive and sensitive to people who don't share your perspectives at all. I think there's arguably some viable overlap to be found there.
I also think ludic qualities shouldn't be ignored in most discussions of a game, and I think explanations of what it is about how a game plays that gives it redeeming quality beyond it's appearances can go a long way to helping someone turned off by the presentation feel its existence may be justified.
Some games become easier to defend in that respect than others But I think how these things actually play largely gets ignored as irrelevant in many of these articles, and sometimes (usually) context is important.
Promoting niche variety is a worthy goal, and so is being inclusive and sensitive to people who don't share your perspectives at all. I think there's arguably some viable overlap to be found there.
I also think ludic qualities shouldn't be ignored in most discussions of a game, and I think explanations of what it is about how a game plays that gives it redeeming quality beyond it's appearances can go a long way to helping someone turned off by the presentation feel its existence may be justified.
Some games become easier to defend in that respect than others
But I think how these things actually play largely gets ignored as irrelevant in many of these articles, and sometimes (usually) context is important.