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[patapuf]

It just seems, to me, that people are trying to downplay it. Someone here called it a display of feminism or something along those lines, I don't know, but it just seems like they're blind to the fact that the game is objectifying its characters to an extremely obscene degree.

The accusation, from people that have not even played the game mind you, that the game is "Damaging to the industry", "disgusting", "i hope the developer goes bankrupt", "people that like this game should be viewed as creeps", the term pedophilia got thrown around ect.

The defending might be clumsy sometimes, but the attacks on the game can be pretty hyperbolic.

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

So yes, fanservice is there, and the game isn't afraid of showing it off, but it's far from the only or even the primary reason why I kept playing. It's closer akin to fluff or dressing than the driving thing that kept the title interesting, IMO.

Hahahaha, I bet you read Playboy for the articles too, right?

....or are the girls in Playboy too old for your tastes?

 

[plasmawave]

the downfall of the industry was not caused by micro transaction, on-disc DLC, shady promotion tactic, etc, but it was caused by boobs.

 

[Ragingnight]

Hahahaha, I bet you read Playboy for the articles too, right?

....or are the girls in Playboy too old for your tastes?

I had a female english teacher in highschool who bought playboy just to read the articles. She even cut them out and put them in a binder to show to the class.

 

[Esura]

Hahahaha, I bet you read Playboy for the articles too, right?

....or are the girls in Playboy too old for your tastes?

Who the hell still reads Playboy? You can find better looking girls that reveal and do more on the internet and better articles than Playboy on the internet. Playboy is a relic.

 

[Night Angel]

Hahahaha, I bet you read Playboy for the articles too, right?

....or are the girls in Playboy too old for your tastes?

What the fuck is this shit? This hostility is why no one wants to talk about these issues. Nice generalizations, there. You don't sound like a dick at all.

 

[Gbraga]

The accusation, from people that have not even played the game mind you, that the game is "Damaging to the industry", "disgusting", "i hope the developer goes bankrup", "people that like this game should be viewed as creeps", the term pedophilia got thrown around ect.

The defending might be clumsy sometimes, but the attacks on the game is can be pretty hyperbolic.

Seeing people being called lolicons for liking Dragon's Crown was really weird haha

I don't like vanillaware's games or style personally, but that makes absolutely no sense. I kinda wish I liked the Sorceress just so I could point out that I really don't like children at all and anime lolis are no exception with their annoying little voices.

 

[darkblade77]

Hahahaha, I bet you read Playboy for the articles too, right?

....or are the girls in Playboy too old for your tastes?

Have you even played the game?

If anything, seeing the same girl in the same position with the same ripping sound when you're in the middle of an aerial combo is a nusiance.

 

[besada]

I wouldn't ask for detractors to like it, but to single the title out claiming it shouldn't exist as part of some larger anti-misogynist narrative is just an incendiary waste of everyone's time.

Actually, it's an opinion. You're welcome to disagree with it. You're welcome to argue with people who agree with it. But you're not welcome to suggest they aren't allowed to express their opinion on the subject here on GAF.

We don't get to decide what other people think of our hobbies or the media we consume. We make our choices and we live with them within the construct of the society we inhabit. If we love things that other people find repulsive, they are likely going to say something about that. You can disagree with them, of course. Society is a constant push/pull between opposing cultural forces, and this is certainly an area where there's a bunch of push/pull.

I don't think that titillation is inherently wrong, but some kinds of titillation certainly do offend people. And it's perfectly okay for them to be offended and to recommend action, up to and including a call for a boycott. This is not remotely limited to video games. It happens with all forms of creative expression. Someone makes something, some people like it, other people hate it, they discuss it, the cycle continues.

What I see in this thread, repeatedly, is the cry "let us enjoy what we want, no matter how repulsive you find it, without saying anything or drawing judgements about us."

That's simply not going to happen.

 

[Kandrick]

Hahahaha, I bet you read Playboy for the articles too, right?

....or are the girls in Playboy too old for your tastes?

Playboy girls are real, why would i read it! That's too much for me, i'll stick to 2D thanks.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

The problem I have with this thread is people attacking the game when they obviously know near nothing about it, I'm not asking for them to play it, but at least google it a bit.

Hahahaha, I bet you read Playboy for the articles too, right?

....or are the girls in Playboy too old for your tastes?

what the fuck? Why are you attacking someone out of nowhere?

 

[Lyte Edge]

You know, Senran Kagura is really fun and all, and it really does contain a pretty large amount of story and character development (no really! It's almost all told via long text-only story segments that none of the screenshots posted here have shown), but it's also pretty ridiculous to try and defend this game from being called a blatant excuse for fan-service...because that's what it is. That's what its creator intended it to be.

The game purposefully zooms in bouncing breasts and rear-ends when clothes are ripped or costumes are changed. Characters get full-on nude in the Vita sequel, which is easily the most-perverted (non-adult) game that I've ever seen or played.

These games are Dynasty Warriors style beat-em-ups with ridiculous amounts of T and A, but it's all tongue in cheek and nothing to be taken seriously. I can easily see why this would be a major turn-off to a lot of people. There's also nothing wrong with enjoying it, either. I continue to and always find it hilarious that people get up in arms over some breasts, but have no problem with media full of blood and gore.

 

[SolidSnakex]

To clarify, I'm not shaming anyone here.

But that's why some are downplaying it

But I wouldn't mind if games like Senran Kagura weren't OK to talk about in a general gaming population without a lot of people thinking you were weird at best and a creep to stay away from at worst.

But going as far as to say that you should be looked as a creep if you like something like that? Yeah, it's no surprise that some fans would be pushing back against certain accusations.

 

[Dio]

Hahahaha, I bet you read Playboy for the articles too, right?

This is the worst argument because sometimes issues of Playboy are worth buying simply for their articles (especially in past decades).

You do know that Martin Luther King and various other historic figures have had pretty great interviews published there, right? Of course you don't.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

The accusation, from people that have not even played the game mind you, that the game is "Damaging to the industry", "disgusting", "i hope the developer goes bankrup", "people that like this game should be viewed as creeps", the term pedophilia got thrown around ect.

The defending might be clumsy sometimes, but the attacks on the game is can be pretty hyperbolic.

Exactly. Yes there are people downplaying the ecchi nature of the game, but on the other end people are being shamed for liking something as completely harmless as bouncy cartoon boobs.

The game is silly and perverted, it's intended to be perverted and no one should be trying to hide that. The creator of the game certainly does not. But attacking a group of people for liking what they like is pretty fucking useless for the argument that's being made here. If you have a distaste for the content that's perfectly fine, but maybe live and let live a little.

 

[LordJim]

Hahahaha, I bet you read Playboy for the articles too, right?

....or are the girls in Playboy too old for your tastes?

'Nobody plays DoA cause some entries are actually good fighting games. '
'People love picking Sorcererss or Amazon in Dragon's Crown cause of their playstyle? nah, they just want their daily dose of titillation'
'Bayonetta is a good action game? You mean people do something else other than playing in one hand mode?'

Et cetera, et cetera

 

[striferser]

I think the people that are defending this game need to be honest and just admit that this game is pervy as all hell and, while there may or may not be a deep fighting system or storyline involved, the fanservice seems to be at the very heart of it all.
The game objectifies its female characters so much that it makes it into an art. When characters get damaged the game goes into a cutscene showing parts of clothing being ripped off, complete with impossible T&A physics. There are also clothing transformations that focus on the T&A.
Theres nothing wrong with liking a pervy game, but don't sit around and be like "But there is DEEP CHARACTERIZATION HERE, THERES MORE TO IT!" because while that may be true, the fanservice is still very much front and center and for some, to a disgusting degree. The game could very well be labeled misogynist. A quick google search will tell you that the T&A is on prominent display throughout the entirety of both the anime and the games.

It is a pervy game and Fanservice is definitely this game top priority, but no way in hell this game is damaging the industry. That is my stand anyway.

the need to state that there's story and decent gameplay because some posters think this is all tits and ass, without story and just plain garbage game, which is not true. At best, this is mediocre game, playable, but not exactly engaging. Still fun though

 

[SousedLouse]

Yeah, the fans of the game are gonna have to hold that L. Consider it a shame tax, to make up for the lower price point. You can throw in a deduction for the supposedly innate respect and decency you're entitled to as a living being, too, because apparently you forfeit that when you buy the game.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

I'm not sure what any of that has to do with thee fact that you asked him how many people were talking about boobs, he responded with a list, and you then said he was wasting people's time.

Platy intentions were another than anwsering a question. Platy even admited that post game release the disscusion of that thread were less about the boobs:

his made most of the comments come from the pre-release discussion of the game, since after you don't discuss about boobs, but how embarassing is clothing damage on the subway =P

Platy has a point in impliying that some of the comments are shameful even in tongue in cheek manner. But I suggested that Platy should have used that time in researching about the game (given that we are disscusing about the merits of a game) given that is obvious that I didn't intended a serious challenge.

If you have an accusation to make, make it. I have no idea what you're talking about here.

Well:

He's saying Platy was being obtuse by entering a thread making accusations without reading the OP or researching the game in question. He then implied that your bias on the subject at hand led you to say that Platy was NOT being obtuse (which he most certainly was).

Thank you Night Angel

 

[StayDead]

This is the worst argument because sometimes issues of Playboy are worth buying simply for their articles (especially in past decades).

You do know that Martin Luther King and various other historic figures have had pretty great interviews published there, right? Of course you don't.

I've never read playboy, never had any problems with anyone who does read it but damn I didn't know they actually had proper interviews and things. I always saw them as somewhat pointless magazines thanks to growing up in the internet age but that's an interesting fact I didn't know, so thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Faustek]

I'm going to enjoy understanding the story fully.
I'm going to enjoy watching the ridiculous jiggling.
I'm going to enjoy knowing some people will think of me as scum.
And I'm going to really enjoy that few of those I know and deem me as scum bought Bratz dolls for their five year old daughters, watch murder porn and still think Twilight is a literal masterpiece.

Yes I'm going to enjoy it as much as I enjoyed this thread.

Question Safe to assume this is a 90s feminist issue? Or is it a regional/cultural problem?

 

[Chet Rippo]

I already used other images =P

But yeah, the main fanbase is totaly not objectifing women

NOT AT ALL

The wiki of the game, where most of the pics I posted are from, say this about the gameplay :

75% of it is NOT ACTUAL GAMEPLAY.

I love you too Platy.

 

[beril]

Honestly I don't think a game like this is nearly as problematic as shit like that MGS5 character

It's a niche game that doesn't take itself seriously by a developer who clearly appreciates big breasts. There is really nothing wrong with that and its existence doesn't really affect the medium at all. What is hurting gaming is when sexist crap finds its way into big mainstream titles and the lack of positive counterexamples.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Actually, it's an opinion. You're welcome to disagree with it. You're welcome to argue with people who agree with it. But you're not welcome to suggest they aren't allowed to express their opinion on the subject here on GAF.

We don't get to decide what other people think of our hobbies or the media we consume. We make our choices and we live with them within the construct of the society we inhabit. If we love things that other people find repulsive, they are likely going to say something about that. You can disagree with them, of course. Society is a constant push/pull between opposing cultural forces, and this is certainly an area where there's a bunch of push/pull.

I don't think that titillation is inherently wrong, but some kinds of titillation certainly do offend people. And it's perfectly okay for them to be offended and to recommend action, up to and including a call for a boycott. This is not remotely limited to video games. It happens with all forms of creative expression. Someone makes something, some people like it, other people hate it, they discuss it, the cycle continues.

What I see in this thread, repeatedly, is the cry "let us enjoy what we want, no matter how repulsive you find it, without saying anything or drawing judgements about us."

That's simply not going to happen.

I see in this thread people shaming another people, give unconrstructive opinions or not bothering to research about what they dislike.

It goes both ways.

 

[Dio]

guys, this random-ass incredibly niche japanese game is literally ruining the entire videogames industry and we'll start seeing anime CoD games with giant tits flopping everywhere

actually, that would be GOTY

 

[The Technomancer]

You had me until misogynist. If anything, this game loves women too much.

Seriously though, sexist is already a bit of a stretch (since it's not putting women in an inferior place, it's just celebrating life and hometown), but misogynist makes no sense to me.

Other than that, I completely agree and I think it's silly that people try to pretend boobs have nothing to do with them liking the game. I'm not saying such cases don't exist, as I'm sure they do (you may just not mind the fanservice and honestly like the game), but for the majority, yeah, anime tits are an important part of the package.

That being said, it's no surprise people would pretend it's not just about the boobs when you're called terrible things for liking anime girls. At least I know I am called terrible things.

The game content...eh, there's debate to be had there. From what I've seen its not as bad as a lot of stuff, although it still seems to have some limiting undercurrents. But the EU cover is definitely sexist. And the Japanese cover...isn't great.

 

[LordJim]

Honestly I don't think a game like this is nearly as problematic as shit like that MGS5 character

It's a niche game that doesn't take itself seriously by a developer who clearly appreciates big breasts. There is really nothing wrong with that and its existence doesn't really affect the medium at all. What is hurting gaming is when sexist crap finds its way into big mainstream titles and the lack of positive counterexamples.

So we go from condemning a game based on the cover to condemning a game due to a character based on conceptl art and 4 seconds in a clip without any real context.
Much better focus.

 

[Tohsaka]

Actually, it's an opinion. You're welcome to disagree with it. You're welcome to argue with people who agree with it. But you're not welcome to suggest they aren't allowed to express their opinion on the subject here on GAF.

We don't get to decide what other people think of our hobbies or the media we consume. We make our choices and we live with them within the construct of the society we inhabit. If we love things that other people find repulsive, they are likely going to say something about that. You can disagree with them, of course. Society is a constant push/pull between opposing cultural forces, and this is certainly an area where there's a bunch of push/pull.

I don't think that titillation is inherently wrong, but some kinds of titillation certainly do offend people. And it's perfectly okay for them to be offended and to recommend action, up to and including a call for a boycott. This is not remotely limited to video games. It happens with all forms of creative expression. Someone makes something, some people like it, other people hate it, they discuss it, the cycle continues.

What I see in this thread, repeatedly, is the cry "let us enjoy what we want, no matter how repulsive you find it, without saying anything or drawing judgements about us."

That's simply not going to happen.

I think it's more like the people who are in favor of this game want something more from its detractors (who have never played it or even read much about it) than simply throwing out accusations that people who enjoy it are pedophiles, misogynists, and/or creepy, which frequently happened in this thread. Having some some of real, informed argument without resorting to ad-hominems is generally preferable.

 

[tookhster]

I think the people that are defending this game need to be honest and just admit that this game is pervy as all hell and, while there may or may not be a deep fighting system or storyline involved, the fanservice seems to be at the very heart of it all.
The game objectifies its female characters so much that it makes it into an art. When characters get damaged the game goes into a cutscene showing parts of clothing being ripped off, complete with impossible T&A physics. There are also clothing transformations that focus on the T&A.
Theres nothing wrong with liking a pervy game, but don't sit around and be like "But there is DEEP CHARACTERIZATION HERE, THERES MORE TO IT!" because while that may be true, the fanservice is still very much front and center and for some, to a disgusting degree. The game could very well be labeled misogynist. A quick google search will tell you that the T&A is on prominent display throughout the entirety of both the anime and the games.

This is honestly how I feel. Go knock yourself out if this is your kind of game, but don't act like it's deep or anything in order to justify its content.

 

[striferser]

Hahahaha, I bet you read Playboy for the articles too, right?

....or are the girls in Playboy too old for your tastes?

And he got banned.
There's more to playboy than just naked girl. there are article and short story penned by famous writer-> this point for those who think the same as him

 

[LordJim]

This is honestly how I feel. Go knock yourself out if this is your kind of game, but don't act like it's deep or anything in order to justify its content.

So any game with lost of fanservice cannot have any other merits for people to enjoy?
Fucking fascinating.

 

[Noirulus]

And he responded that is more complicated than that and moe driven otakus are a niche subculture at best.

Moe has started to cross the divide from 'niche', it's fairly popular now. Even in the west.

 

[The Cartographer]

is damaging the industry

i cri evrtiem

 

[Anfony O]

Feminist. You got to love how they fight for equality and then when the titanic sinks it's "WOMEN AND CHILDREN FIRST!"

Spoiler

just joking

 

[Hubb]

The game content...eh, there's debate to be had there. From what I've seen its not as bad as a lot of stuff, although it still seems to have some limiting undercurrents. But the EU cover is definitely sexist. And the Japanese cover...isn't great.

Can you elaborate? Anytime sex sells something is that also sexist? Honest question, just trying to figure out what's what.

 

[Brogief]

No, I am implying that if the only thing you have to say about women is their measures, they are objects.

I might add that the fact that 95% of the cast having huge boobs and being slim doesn't help in the SEA of bad physical images about women everywhere.

So basically listing measurements on a page about measurements is sexist, and having big boobs makes you an object?

You sicken me.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Moe has started to cross the divide from 'niche', it's fairly popular now. Even in the west.

Not as much as you think given the actual sales and market of Moe anime and video games. They are still in the definition of Niche.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

I wasn't interested in Senran Kagura until I heard the story was actually good, that got me to buy it, and I assume a lot of people wouldn't believe that haha.

Feminist. You got to love how they fight for equality and then when the titanic sinks it's "WOMEN AND CHILDREN FIRST!"

Spoiler

just joking

We really don't need this in the thread... you know.

 

[AtomskEater]

I think the people that are defending this game need to be honest and just admit that this game is pervy as all hell and, while there may or may not be a deep fighting system or storyline involved, the fanservice seems to be at the very heart of it all.
The game objectifies its female characters so much that it makes it into an art. When characters get damaged the game goes into a cutscene showing parts of clothing being ripped off, complete with impossible T&A physics. There are also clothing transformations that focus on the T&A.
Theres nothing wrong with liking a pervy game, but don't sit around and be like "But there is DEEP CHARACTERIZATION HERE, THERES MORE TO IT!" because while that may be true, the fanservice is still very much front and center and for some, to a disgusting degree. The game could very well be labeled misogynist. A quick google search will tell you that the T&A is on prominent display throughout the entirety of both the anime and the games.

I'm not sure why mentioning that yes, it does have characterization beyond the T&A and it has a story as a defense to someone saying that it does not is suddenly calling it DEEP. I'm definitely willing to admit that a large draw is the ensemble of cute girls with nice bodies, but obviously that's not all there is to the game or most people would have just googled for some pervy images and saved themselves 30 bucks.

 

[RobFox64tm]

So any game with lost of fanservice cannot have any other merits for people to enjoy?
Fucking fascinating.

Neither his comment, nor the one he responded to stated this at all.

 

[Gbraga]

The game content...eh, there's debate to be had there. From what I've seen its not as bad as a lot of stuff, although it still seems to have some limiting undercurrents. But the EU cover is definitely sexist. And the Japanese cover...isn't great.

I may be wrong on this, but I feel like the context is really important to establish sexism, let alone misogyny.

Again, I truly consider the possibility that I'm completely wrong, as I'm not very educated on the subject, but I feel like a game that pretends to have a serious and mature storyline and features hyper sexualized female characters that are really underdeveloped compared to the male leads is waaaaaaaaaay more sexist than a game about girls with big breasts that are the main characters and all the story (good or bad) happens around them.

I feel like those games are very sexualized, but not exactly sexist, while some other "serious and mature" action game may not even be sexualized, but much more sexist.

Saying it again before people acuse me of defending the narrative that benefits me the most, I may very well be wrong about this, but I'll still defend that this is harmless compared to the things I described as being "really sexist" (even if my definition is wrong).

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

It is interesting how there is much more impassioned debate over the morality and consequence of T&A in our entertainment compared to gun worship and graphic violence in our entertainment (which is far more significant in quantity, explicitness and popularity).

A lighthearted game featuring bouncing boobs and torn clothes has serious cultural and moral implications, but guys getting their heads blown off into polygonal gibs is just the latest game with headshots and body counts.

 

[Noirulus]

Not as much as you think given the actual sales and market of Moe anime and video games. They are still in the definition of Niche.

Oh really? Where do we draw the line between what's niche and what isn't?

Moe is clearly popular enough that a shit ton of moe anime is greenlit for production every year in Japan. The moe subculture is quite a bit more popular than you're making it seem.

 

[Pinko Marx]

nvm.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Oh really? Where do we draw the line between what's niche and what isn't?

Moe is clearly popular enough that a shit ton of moe anime is greenlit for production every year in Japan. The moe subculture is quite a bit more popular than you're making it seem.

But anime is not exactly as popular as years before.

 

[LordJim]

Oh really? Where do we draw the line between what's niche and what isn't?

Moe is clearly popular enough that a shit ton of moe anime is greenlit for production every year in Japan. The moe subculture is quite a bit more popular than you're making it seem.

Does 30k disc sales for the more popular series scream mainstream to you?
Or most manga with such content not being in the top 50 volume sellers?
It's just cheap relatively production values and selling merchandize to a dedicated audience.

 

[Gbraga]

This is honestly how I feel. Go knock yourself out if this is your kind of game, but don't act like it's deep or anything in order to justify its content.

Hmm, I don't know, I didn't play Burst to say if it fits or not, but Mitsurugi Kamui Hikae is described by its creator as pretty much "high school girls and katanas is a combination I've always liked from anime, but it's not very popular in games, so I made this", but at the same time the game is a very competent indie Bloody Palace, with nice visuals, combat deeper than most western action games and surprisingly competent voice acting.

It's not because the main appeal of something is anime boobs that it's the only thing it has.

Actually, even though I do like anime girls, it really wasn't the reason I was interested in Mitsurugi Kamui Hikae at all, in fact I was like "eeeeh a poverty doujin game with anime girls", and it was the gameplay videos that convinced me to buy it.

 

[Dio]

Does 30k disc sales scream mainstream to you?
Or most manga with such content not being in the top 50 volume sellers?
It's just cheap relatively production values and selling merchandize to a dedicated audience.

this, dedicated audiences who will literally spend 600 dollars on a single bluray set of an anime show which makes low sales even out

 

[The Technomancer]

Can you elaborate? Anytime sex sells something is that also sexist? Honest question, just trying to figure out what's what.

Its almost identical to a magazine advertisement for a different game that I read a great explanation of and am trying to find. Short version: the framing of the shot and the lack of facial features are dehumanizing. Its a set of tits

 

[Suzushiiro]

I think this image (about Kill la Kill) sums up the cultural gap between the pro- and anti- crowd pretty well:

To those on the "outside," the sexual aspect is so overpowering that it eclipses the rest of the work. To the target audience, regardless of if they actually like that sort of stuff, it's not really a big deal. After consuming enough of it you kind of accept the weirdness (sexual or otherwise) of most anime and otaku games and just look past it.