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[Dabookerman]

Yup. So many people don't learn shit from the likes of The Last Temptation of Christ, The Passion of the Christ, or this episode of Father Ted...

The more you protest something, the more free publicity and exposure you've giving it. Dragon's Crown ended up being Vanillaware's most profitable game didn't it?

I believe it did. I actually looked up what the game was about after all the controversy and realised I might actually like the game. Ended up buying it with the art book, and don't regret it. Game is ace.

And these games are so niche in the west, what exactly are you thinking you're going to achieve? They're far more rampant in Japan, and only one or two of these get localised. By giving the game more publicity, it'll sell more than it expected to, and as a result encourage more of these games to be localised.

WELL DONE!

 

[sleepykyo]

She just waiting be switched out, as soon as they get Captain marvel and She Hulk and possibly a scarlet witch? She gone.

You expect Marvel to get rid of Scarlett Johanssen, or she gets tired of taking the paycheck? I'd assume Black Widow is going to continue as long she wants the role.

On topic, the series sells 60k or so, that seems like a mosquito bite's worth of damage. If film can survive I Spit on Your Grave (how did this get remade) and Galaxy of Terror, the video game industry should be able to survive Senran Kagura.

 

[YAWN]

Damaging or not, thanks ONM. I didn't even know of this game but now I'm interested.

MegaMelon
Junior Member
(Today, 08:35 PM)

 

[meppi]

This article is sure to increase the game's sales significantly. I applaud Nintendo/Marvelous on their Howard Hughes-esque marketing approach.

Not to mention decrease the sales of the magazine that supports this kind of drivel.
It might be crude, but Future closed doWn the wrong Nintendo magazine when they got rid of N-Gamer.

At least those guys and girl knew what to take serious and what not to.
Instead we are left with this kind of over righteous crap that tries to create problems where there are none.

I'd been meaning to pick up Burst for a while, already owning Shinovi Versus on my Vita. This article honestly pushed me to grab it just now. Thanks ONM! Glad to contribute to the destruction of the industry.

Haha, same here. Imported the vita game and really like it, silliness and all.
It doesn't go overboard at all and certainly isn't a peavy game.

After hitting post, I'll be putting down my preorder for the EU 3DS game.

 

[JordanN]

Surprised it took this long for it to hit the news.

 

[CrovaxPSO]

I don't think Senran Kagura is damaging to women, it's so over-the-top and absurd in almost every way. I like the game but there's nothing to take seriously about any of it.

 

[Moon Patrol Pilot]

No idea what this game is and would have never known if it weren't for that article, which piqued my curiosity. I'm gonna look it up and view a couple of YouTube videos. Then I'll see if there are some positive reviews. If the game looks fun, then I'll have to buy it.

 

[The Grim Heaper]

I don't think Senran Kagura is damaging to women, it's so over-the-top and absurd in almost every way. I like the game but there's nothing to take seriously about any of it.

You mean a sushi roll can't be so good that it grows gigantic and you get wrapped up into it and it shoots off into space? Are you saying that can't happen?

 

[Famassu]

I really doubt it's because of anime girls in video games they've likely never even heard of.

It's not JUST games, it's EVERYTHING. When everything from clothes models to actors to cartoon characters depicit these unrealistically thin yet busty women, you'd be an ignorant fool to try to deny the effect it can have on society & women. I mean, men don't have quite as much pressure to look good. There's that stupid sitcom stereotype where a somewhat ugly or average looking, fat (and possibly old) dude is married with incredible hotties. Not that that kind of thing is impossible in the real world, but it's never the other way around.

 

[decaf]

If he hasn't played the game, should he be discussing this? I don't think secondary sources are good enough unless he's only talking about the game's marketing.

 

[Tellaerin]

They're almost always portrayed as busty, slim, attractive people - an almost impossible feat in real life.

Yes, busty, slim, attractive people are the new unicorns.

 

[Corronchilejano]

This seems like a terrible game with boobs in it.

I know a few people that'd buy it.

 

[CrovaxPSO]

You mean a sushi roll can't be so good that it grows gigantic and you get wrapped up into it and it shoots off into space? Are you saying that can't happen?

I'm not saying it can't happen, but I'm not saying it can happen.

 

[And_Gignac]

It is a shame that legit discussion on videogames role in social commentary is being used by some bloggers as an easy way to gain clicks.

 

[Elitro]

I really dislike these sexism claims, and normally i skip these topics but i went ahead and looked up a youtube vid of that game.

From what i could see (just watched a bit so i'm just scrapping the surface) you fight as a girl avatar against other opponents (the vid showed other girls) and as the battle progresses and you or your opponent lose hp the clothes start ripping eventually showing your avatar in underwear only.

While i don't like the concept, this is nothing new... infact i loved a series that behaved somewhat like that.

But it's okay as long as it's men right? ...

 

[DeaviL]

It's not JUST games, it's EVERYTHING. When everything from clothes models to actors to cartoon characters depicit these unrealistically thin yet busty women, you'd be an ignorant fool to try to deny the effect it can have on society & women.

Hey look, it's a Coca Cola power fantasy!

Let's just admit that most people are unrealistic in media.
Besides, it seems it's usually mostly men that are offended about unrealistic depictions of women... Strange how that works.

 

[akidnamededdy]

This seems like a terrible game with boobs in it.

I know a few people that'd buy it.

I wouldn't say it's a terrible game or even a bad one, but ahh. You can definitely tell where the priorities were with it.

 

[Intheflorsh]

It is a shame that legit discussion on videogames role in social commentary is being used by some bloggers as an easy way to gain clicks.

That's a pretty ridiculous assumption. How would you know the motivation of the author?

 

[Oriel]

Thanks to this thread I've started reading the, frankly absurd yet enjoyable, manga series. Great to see the Streisand Effect still going strong.

 

[Dr. Buni]

The funny thing is that most people bothered by how women are portrayed (design-wise) in games, are men and not, well, women. Anyway, I do agree that it is a problem when most females in video games are overly sexualized, when the same isn't valid for male characters. This should definitely change. I am not even against sexualized characters, it just sucks when it is heavily one-sided. Also, reading people claiming that isn't a problem is very frustrating. Lastly, the argument "Don't like it, don't buy it" is completely bullshit.

 

[cerulily]

There's a really fun game behind the boobs. I can definitely imagine why some people would be turned off by the game's aesthetics, but Senran Kagura has value from a gameplay perspective, to the point where I don't think it's damaging the industry at all. It's fine to criticize the aspects of the game you don't appreciate, but I do wish there was a little less hyperbole.

If there is a really fun game behind the boobs. then arguably the game would stand on its own without them and appeal to those who ARE turned off by it then, right?

Your point only really enhances the idea that the over-sexualization is completely superfluous and only serves to narrow a game's appeal and potential to continue as a series.

I'm not completely against sexy games, I and many of my girlfriends love doa and cosplaying sexy stuff. But, at the end of the day why is it so terrible that someone disagrees with you? Opinion articles are just that, someone's opinion you can choose to buy whatever the hell you want. Just make sure you take personal responsibility for how your choices reflect on your values as a person.

 

[Mr-Joker]

The is just white knighting as he clearly doesn't know what he's talking about, but I draw the line over someone actively telling people not to buy the game.

Beside all this feels late since we already went through this with Dragon Crown last year, oh wait I forgot that game didn't get released on a Nintendo console.

Clickbait.

This pretty much and it worked.

Onm isn't afraid to put the titans of the industry on notice

Ha if only that's true, they get their pay check from Nintendo.

That is actually a really good boxart.

Tells you everything you need to know in one go.

There's something about the lips that just makes you want to kiss it.

 

[Oriel]

I wouldn't say it's a terrible game or even a bad one, but ahh. You can definitely tell where the priorities were with it.

From Wiki...

Game producer Kenichiro Takaki came up with the idea for the game around April, 2010 when he decided to make a 3DS game. Apparently, within 30 seconds of thinking about a possible game he decided that one of the things people want to see the most in 3D are breasts.

Sounds legit.

 

[DeaviL]

Sounds legit.

Tbh, he wasn't wrong

There's that stupid sitcom stereotype where a somewhat ugly or average looking, fat (and possibly old) dude is married with incredible hotties. Not that that kind of thing is impossible in the real world, but it's never the other way around.

And the women there are incredibly smart while the men are usually retarded to a life threatening limit, your point?

 

[ThreePiMatt]

And the "girls didn't buy games, therefore we should continue to not market games for girls" circular logic is somehow better?



Is the idea of having games be for more than just a narrow male target audience really that wild and terrifying of a thought?

I'm not saying the current trend is better. Personally, as someone who actually doesn't jump at every big-budget AAA game, I'd be more in favor of the mid-budget niche games given more focus. As a PC gamer most of my favorite games lately have all been out of eastern Europe. But what I am saying is that I understand why publishers are afraid to buck the trend. If the current size of the female market cannot support a $50 million dollar games then the alternative is to build that market up, which is a far more daunting task that would likely require billions of dollars and many years. Again, it would be nice if there were more games that appealed to women, but don't be so naive to think the solution is so simple as "someone should just go make one!"

 

[Intheflorsh]

From Wiki...



Sounds legit.

You know, real breasts are in 3D too.

 

[Tohsaka]

It's not JUST games, it's EVERYTHING. When everything from clothes models to actors to cartoon characters depicit these unrealistically thin yet busty women, you'd be an ignorant fool to try to deny the effect it can have on society & women. I mean, men don't have quite as much pressure to look good. There's that stupid sitcom stereotype where a somewhat ugly or average looking, fat (and possibly old) dude is married with incredible hotties. Not that that kind of thing is impossible in the real world, but it's never the other way around.

That isn't what you said in your previous post, though. Also, there is is plenty of pressure on both genders to look good in all forms of media.

 

[Lyte Edge]

Sound logic from the SK creator!

But why is Marvelous AQL putting the next Senran Kagura on PlayStation Vita?

“Because I wanted to make tits that could be licked,” said Takaki.

“Tits are life, ass is hometown.”

 

[Oriel]

Tbh, he wasn't wrong

True, though personally I prefer to focus on gameplay more than aesthetics when buying games.

 

[And_Gignac]

That's a pretty ridiculous assumption. How would you know the motivation of the author?

I don't know his motivation, but his hyperbolic statements, without giving room to an actual, non visceral discussion kind of give a glimpse to his intentions. He may be not doing it intentionally, but it sure does seems, at lest to me, that he is just stirring up the hornets nest.

 

[Famassu]

Hey look, it's a Coca Cola power fantasy!

Let's just admit that most people are unrealistic in media.
Besides, it seems it's usually mostly men that are offended about unrealistic depictions of women... Strange how that works.

But the males used in such ads aren't an UNHEALTHY rolemodel (they are muscular, so they exercise and eat well) + there ARE a wider variety of men types used in entertainment (i.e. the sitcom cliche of fat, average and possibly old(er) husband + super sexy mama wife that is used quite a lot in sitcoms, while the opposite is pretty much never used), whereas the female actors are still judged way more on their looks than skills (that has been changing). Even a pretty girl like Jennifer Lawrence is claimed to be ugly by some crazy lunatics.

 

[Ultrabum]

But the males used in such ads aren't an UNHEALTHY rolemodel (they are muscular, so they exercise and eat well) + there ARE a wider variety of men types used in entertainment (i.e. the sitcom cliche of fat, average and possibly old(er) husband + super sexy mama wife that is used quite a lot in sitcoms, while the opposite is pretty much never used), whereas the female actors are still judged way more on their looks than skills (that has been changing). Even a pretty girl like Jennifer Lawrence is claimed to be ugly by some crazy lunatics.

The opposite is used. Have you seen or read "Twilight":

Average girl with little to no redeeming qualities, depressed, attracts multiple ripped wealthy males for seemingly no reason.

Edit: forgot sparkles and never ages.

 

[AuthenticM]

I find it patronising that women are assumed to get hung up over idealised body images to a degree that nobody ever expects from men. It's as if there's some unspoken assumption that women are inherently insecure and suggestible.

boom

 

[Griss]

But the males used in such ads aren't an UNHEALTHY rolemodel (they are muscular, so they exercise and eat well) + there ARE a wider variety of men types used in entertainment (i.e. the sitcom cliche of fat, average and possibly old(er) husband + super sexy mama wife that is used quite a lot in sitcoms, while the opposite is pretty much never used), whereas the female actors are still judged way more on their looks than skills (that has been changing). Even a pretty girl like Jennifer Lawrence is claimed to be ugly by some crazy lunatics.

They absolutely CAN be an unhealthy role model. High school sports teams have huge problems with young men / teenage boys taking all kinds of supplements to increase muscle mass, some of which are very damaging. On top of that, weight lifting before you reach your full height can have negative effects on your spine / bone growth etc. I'm no doctor, but there are definitely health issues there.

It's nothing like the bulemia / anorexia thing, and the pressure isn't near what it is on women to keep slim. But there's pressure there, and it can be unhealthy.

 

[Dabookerman]

Sound logic from the SK creator!

I audibly laughed out loud. That's such an absurd thing to say it's hilarious.

 

[ThreePiMatt]

But the males used in such ads aren't an UNHEALTHY rolemodel (they are muscular, so they exercise and eat well) + there ARE a wider variety of men types used in entertainment (i.e. the sitcom cliche of fat, average and possibly old(er) husband + super sexy mama wife that is used quite a lot in sitcoms, while the opposite is pretty much never used), whereas the female actors are still judged way more on their looks than skills (that has been changing). Even a pretty girl like Jennifer Lawrence is claimed to be ugly by some crazy lunatics.

But why do you think that is? Is it the overly-exaggerated, cartoony portrayals of women that are consumed by niche fanbases of men? Or is it the intended-to-be-realistic, but heavily Photoshopped idealized images of women that are presented in ads and magazines targeted towards women?

 

[FlyingSaucer]

Senran Kagura is probably the worst game you could pick to plant your anti-sexism flag on. Yes, there is oodles of fanservice. But the game goes out of its way to portay its characters as strong individuals with their own personalities and goals. It's not Shakespeare, but it's far more thorough characterization than you see in most action games. I sort of view this through a distorted categorical imperative: that fanservice is not inherently bad, but that to treat a character mere fanservice is when there is a problem.

I'd go so far as to declare that something like Yakuza is more casually sexist than Senran Kagura. Look at the way host and hostess clubs work differently in the game. When you're the host, your sole job is to keep the customer happy and spending money. When you're in a hostess club, all of the women are immediately interested in you and want to get to know you as a person. Not to mention the running trend of any woman you fight turning out to be a cross-dresser. It's never outright said, but I find the implications of such double standards to be far worse than any of Senran Kagura's in-your-face fanservice.

The author really needs to stop looking at the surface of games and examine how women as characters are portrayed, rather than what they look like. Sexism is a problem, but it's rarely immediately apparent through screenshots. It's when a game implies that there is an inherent superiority to one gender that it arises.

Spot-on.

 

[DeaviL]

But the males used in such ads aren't an UNHEALTHY rolemodel (they are muscular, so they exercise and eat well) + there ARE a wider variety of men types used in entertainment (i.e. the sitcom cliche of fat, average and possibly old(er) husband + super sexy mama wife that is used quite a lot in sitcoms, while the opposite is pretty much never used), whereas the female actors are still judged way more on their looks than skills (that has been changing). Even a pretty girl like Jennifer Lawrence is claimed to be ugly by some crazy lunatics.

Being slim and smart isn't positive? And about the skinny part: i've tried to convince numerous women that they looked perfectly fine and that dieting would be retarded, some of those women didn't watch TV or play games and they still do it to themselves.
I think other women in combination with the mirror are far more deadly then all sexy stereotypes combined. Men have the same image issues with their package.

Training like a madman for a six-pack can be pretty unhealthy too btw.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

Senran Kagura is probably the worst game you could pick to plant your anti-sexism flag on. Yes, there is oodles of fanservice. But the game goes out of its way to portay its characters as strong individuals with their own personalities and goals. It's not Shakespeare, but it's far more thorough characterization than you see in most action games. I sort of view this through a distorted categorical imperative: that fanservice is not inherently bad, but that to treat a character mere fanservice is when there is a problem.

I'd go so far as to declare that something like Yakuza is more casually sexist than Senran Kagura. Look at the way host and hostess clubs work differently in the game. When you're the host, your sole job is to keep the customer happy and spending money. When you're in a hostess club, all of the women are immediately interested in you and want to get to know you as a person. Not to mention the running trend of any woman you fight turning out to be a cross-dresser. It's never outright said, but I find the implications of such double standards to be far worse than any of Senran Kagura's in-your-face fanservice.

The author really needs to stop looking at the surface of games and examine how women as characters are portrayed, rather than what they look like. Sexism is a problem, but it's rarely immediately apparent through screenshots. It's when a game implies that there is an inherent superiority to one gender that it arises.

I agree 100%


I also hope this article got the game more sales.

 

[Gestault]

I find it patronising that women are assumed to get hung up over idealised body images to a degree that nobody ever expects from men. It's as if there's some unspoken assumption that women are inherently insecure and suggestible.

I think it's more a case of traditionally, the vast majority of content is made by men and catering to male taste. We know how media effects self-perception. I've never seen it characterized as "women are different." I've seen it highlighting the nature and volume of the media. Even content made for women has tended to be made by men.

 

[Kuroyume]

But the males used in such ads aren't an UNHEALTHY rolemodel (they are muscular, so they exercise and eat well) + there ARE a wider variety of men types used in entertainment (i.e. the sitcom cliche of fat, average and possibly old(er) husband + super sexy mama wife that is used quite a lot in sitcoms, while the opposite is pretty much never used), whereas the female actors are still judged way more on their looks than skills (that has been changing). Even a pretty girl like Jennifer Lawrence is claimed to be ugly by some crazy lunatics.

There are guys that will go to extremes and do unhealthy things to their bodies to have bodies like Mr. Six pack there. This happens so much in gaming where you have guys usually chiseled, doing heroic things in military shooters. Why isn't that a hot button issue? How that's influencing young boys? To spend time in the gym? To want to go into the army instead of college? Oh right, because there's no sincereity in any of this feminist garbage making its way through gaming in recent months. All these holier than thou journalists care about women but don't there consider what it does to the young men in this country.

 

[boiled goose]

The opposite is used. Have you seen or read "Twilight":

Average girl with little to no redeeming qualities, depressed, attracts multiple ripped wealthy males for seemingly no reason.

Edit: forgot sparkles and never ages.

Let's be fair here. It is definitely not the same for males and females and how they are portrayed in the media. Of course objectification of males exists, but for females it is worse and much more culturally entrenched. These overly defensive, false-equivalence attempts are ultimately sad and pathetic.

For better or worse, you are seeing more male objectification. I would not be surprised if body image issues for teenage boys is on the rise. The ideal muscular build depicted in chick flicks and super hero movies is unrealistic, only achievable by extreme exersizing and dieting for select shoots in a small amount of time. plus not everyone has the same genetics.

There are guys that will go to extremes and do unhealthy things to their bodies to have bodies like Mr. Six pack there. This happens so much in gaming where you have guys usually chiseled, doing heroic things in military shooters. Why isn't that a hot button issue? How that's influencing young boys? To spend time in the gym? To want to go into the army instead of college? Oh right, because there's no sincereity in any of this feminist garbage making its way through gaming in recent months. All these holier than thou journalists care about women but don't there consider what it does to the young men in this country.

again, let's keep it real. Currently, body image issues affect more females than males. Guys like Bill Murray and Seinfeld can date extremely attractive women by being funny, Big Bang theory guy gets extremely hot girlfriend by being smart, etc. Like I said, I believe issues for males will begin to increase, then it will be a bigger issue. It is a big issue for women now. Instead of countering it by saying: 'why dont you complain on behalf for men too?' Let's instead accept it, learn from it, and try to increase awareness for everyone.

 

[Green Biker Dude]

omfg people enjoying things i don't like. these fucking monsters liking big tits in virtual women. how the fuck are these people allowed to live. jesus christ

 

[Ultrabum]

Let's be fair here. It is definitely not the same for males and females and how they are portrayed in the media. Of course objectification of males exists, but for females it is worse and much more culturally entrenched. These overly defensive, false-equivalence attempts are ultimately sad and pathetic.

For better or worse, you are seeing more male objectification. I would not be surprised if body image issues for teenage boys is on the rise. The ideal muscular build depicted in chick flicks and super hero movies is unrealistic, only achievable by extreme exersizing and dieting for select shoots in a small amount of time. plus not everyone has the same genetics.

Of course it's not equal, but it's certainly not rare. Simply responding to the statement, "the opposite is never used" when it is used frequently.

 

[udivision]

I find it patronising that women are assumed to get hung up over idealised body images to a degree that nobody ever expects from men. It's as if there's some unspoken assumption that women are inherently insecure and suggestible.

Heh... I think this comment is gonna get ignored.

 

[Mzo]

I really like Senran Kagura Burst. I think it's a really fun game.

Don't know what to say about this. Seems like an overreaction.

 

[Taruranto]

Well, it's definitely damaging, alright. Games like this promote fanservice over actually gameplay and substance, i.e. developers think they can get away with shit games by inserting fanservice and kawaii anime girls (see Idea Factory trash and some more recent Gust products)

Basically, they are following more and more the current anime trend. One of these days I'm expecting LN adaptations to take over jrpg too.

 

[Green Biker Dude]

yo guys i heard there are people in the united states who steal and murder. how dare these motherfuckers damage the entire country's image by committing these crimes. seriously

 

[SenorArdilla]

Sound logic from the SK creator!

I audibly laughed out loud. That's such an absurd thing to say it's hilarious.

 

[boiled goose]

Heh... I think this comment is gonna get ignored.

I think it is an interesting idea, though not sure what I think about it just yet. I do think there are social and cultural ideas of how men and women should respond differently to situations, which might be a part of it. Additionally, we know that the portrayal has definitely not been equal historically, so of course the effects on one group will be more noticeable. It is also possible that similar issues are affecting men, yet it is less visible. I remember reading that a surprisingly large fraction of college aged men for example have tried or used male enhancement products.

I have also come across similar attitudes also from people in advertising. Fitness products, cosmetics, and bunk science health things are aggressively marketed towards women. The implication of the CEO of the company was that women were somehow more suggestible and gullible. Again, not sure if the claim is real, socially caused, or complete BS.