Support NeoGAF

[Mesoian]

That's not necessarily how they'd greenlight a sequel though.

Dark Arisen is potentially seen a lot like selling DLC to the same people. Similarly I didn't combine Super Street Fighter onto Street Fighter IV or DR2:OTR onto DR2's total.

Street Fighter is tough because some of those iterations are meaningful. Combining SF4 and SSF4's numbers is probably okay (maybe even Ultra's). Retail copies of everything after that though, not really.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I feel like a lot of Japanese publishers were iffy about PS4 because they were worried about consoles in general or were worried about Japanese sales.

I think Capcom just doesn't have the resources to go all-in on PS4 and Xbox One. They're still dipping their toe in the water and they're probably going to keep doing that as long as they can.

 

[Caja 117]

That's not necessarily how they'd greenlight a sequel though.

Dark Arisen is potentially seen a lot like selling DLC to the same people. Similarly I didn't combine Super Street Fighter onto Street Fighter IV or DR2:OTR onto DR2's total.

But I guess seen those numbers combined with Dark Arisen gives some hope for a Sequel. Believe!

 

[Bl@de]

I sure hope there will be a Dead Rising Sequel. Despite the poor port I simply love the game.

 

[TheGameChanger]

Well Capcom is going to die either way so it doesn't matter.

 

[JordanN]

I feel like a lot of Japanese publishers were iffy about PS4 because they were worried about consoles in general or were worried about Japanese sales.

I think Capcom just doesn't have the resources to go all-in on PS4 and Xbox One. They're still dipping their toe in the water and they're probably going to keep doing that as long as they can.

That's bad thinking on their part. Japan hasn't been the industry leader since PS2 era. They should have never set themselves up for a Japanese comeback and instead, focus on other parts of the world where consoles are booming.

 

[cnorwood]

Wait.. who would? AAA budget-wise is a fuckload of money. If you don't do way more than 2 million, why should you dig a grave for a publisher financially?

"B-b-b-but its not a developers job to make money its to make hardcore gamers happy, who cares about sales its all about my happiness!"-Gamers

I totally agree with you. I think Capcom is dead either way.

They bring back their classic franchises and lose money. If they stop releasing other games, they'll still lose money.
I would like to see them go out with a bang and bring back those other IP's.

Yea its probably dead unless they find a new IP, I was going to say bring back Megaman but nobody buys those games and it would further cement their decision to not make anymore Megaman anything

 

[ShockingAlberto]

That's bad thinking on their part. Japan hasn't been the industry leader since PS2 era. They should have never set themselves for a Japanese comeback and instead, focus on other parts of the world where consoles are booming.

I mean, it sort of depends.

If you're making a One Piece game or a Musou game or something (or a One Piece Musou game), making it PS4-only right now is fucking dumb, even if you do intend to release it internationally.

 

[Jawmuncher]

I feel like a lot of Japanese publishers were iffy about PS4 because they were worried about consoles in general or were worried about Japanese sales.

I think Capcom just doesn't have the resources to go all-in on PS4 and Xbox One. They're still dipping their toe in the water and they're probably going to keep doing that as long as they can.

I really see Deep Down or whatever it's called now being a big gamble for them in its current state. A AAA F2P game exclusive to PS4 still just seems like a odd move for what is their first next gen entry.

 

[MoogleWizard]

Well, it's mostly driven by how these consoles are built and sold. They are sold as technical juggernauts -- remember "the power of the Cell" and "8GB of RAM" and other such catechisms -- and thus a hugely disproportionate amount of the people who buy these platforms are concerned with presentation. They want games which take advantage of the powerful new system they bought.

This effect produces a constant race-to-the-top that's very difficult to avoid with how consoles are currently made. PC, iOS and Android devices mostly avoid this problem; they may or may not be powerful, but they're primarily sold as convenient, multi-purpose devices which just so happen to be able to play games. This means the audience they tend to attract isn't buying them with the expectation of cutting edge AAA graphics, even if they can technically do it (as PCs often can). This race-to-the-top is built in to the way consoles have been produced and sold for decades.

I know that more powerful hardware and better graphics have always been the driving forces behind consoles. But this really seems to be the generation where the budgets necessary to create a profitable console title have reached the point where the mid tier games that existed before seem to not get made anymore at all. I thought Resident Evil Revelations 2 was a sign of Capcom trying to make mid tier games again. Games with a smaller audience and a lower budget. After reading this, it seems they might only be willing to try this for their biggest IPs. What a shame. I guess games like Onimusha, Dino Crisis, Devil May Cry, Dragon's Dogma or Okami are a thing of the past.

 

[Foffy]

This company is just asking to crater.

 

[Mesoian]

"B-b-b-but its not a developers job to make money its to make hardcore gamers happy, who cares about sales its all about my happiness!"-Gamers

To be fair, it's their job to make money while and by making gamers happy. It's pretty easy to rag on Sega when their big fall release is a PSO2 themed pachinko machine.

 

[Nirolak]

I feel like a lot of Japanese publishers were iffy about PS4 because they were worried about consoles in general or were worried about Japanese sales.

I think Capcom just doesn't have the resources to go all-in on PS4 and Xbox One. They're still dipping their toe in the water and they're probably going to keep doing that as long as they can.

I feel they're most likely shellshocked on the basis that they're having perpetually falling sales on the prior platforms (360/PS3), rapidly shrinking market share, tanking metacritic scores, and their big new IP attempt didn't really set the world on fire despite being their second biggest production after Resident Evil 6.

Around the time they were starting to ramp down their CEO also stated that the 3DS would be the wave of the future and the ultimate expression of gaming, and they put out a whole range of titles for that before retreating back to just releasing Monster Hunter and Ace Attorney.

Then they went all in on mobile, yet most of the games tanked and got taken down within a year.

They're basically a company with almost nothing going for them anymore on an increasingly small piece of floating ice. They might have just realized at some level they can't compete and decided not to outside of what was still working, while transitioning into the lower risk areas of internal mobile and f2p development. The new staff they're hiring is also almost all college grads so they probably don't cost very much either compared to what an outsourcing studio might charge.

 

[Son Of D]

Street Fighter and Resident Evil the only AAA capcom games we'll see then?

How depressing.

Don't forget Monster Hunter.

Spoiler

And the pre-reboot DMC based on DMC4's sales.

 

[Mesoian]

I feel they're most likely shellshocked on the basis that they're having perpetually falling sales on the prior platforms (360/PS3), rapidly shrinking market share, tanking metacritic scores, and their big new IP attempt didn't really set the world on fire despite being their second biggest production after Resident Evil 6.

Around the time they were starting to ramp down their CEO also stated that the 3DS would be the wave of the future and the ultimate expression of gaming, and they put out a whole range of titles for that before retreating back to just releasing Monster Hunter and Ace Attorney.

Then they went all in on mobile, yet most of the games tanked and got taken down within a year.

They're basically a company with almost nothing going for them anymore on an increasingly small piece of floating ice. They might have just realized at some level they can't compete and decided not to outside of what was still working, while transitioning into the lower risk areas of internal mobile and f2p development.

Capcom truly feels like a video game company where the higher ups don't understand why the climate of the gaming industry is what it is. I can understand that from investors, but not the people in charge.

It's a singular instance, but in what universe does Okami 2 being on 3DS make any sense?

Don't forget Monster Hunter.

Spoiler

And the pre-reboot DMC based on DMC4's sales.

God, could you imagine if Nintendo headhunted Itsuno?

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

AAA standards and expectations have become one of the biggest hindrances to gaming.

 

[roknin]

I have to question if making the first game in a franchise AAA is even an intelligent move given Titanfall, Watch_Dogs, and Destiny are not doing as well as expected and the biggest new franchise in years, Minecraft, was made on an indie's budget. Seems like the better model would be to make a cheaper first game and then if it does well, raise expectations and budget for it. You know, reasonable expectations.

Reasonable expectations? What is this madness?!

No seriously I agree, but I think the problem is that both the consumers and the execs (and marketing) have made it abundantly clear that there's little-to-no room for that nowadays. "Go big or go home" and all of that jazz.

Minecraft was more of a phenomenon that caught lightning in a bottle, and isn't reliably repeatable, to be fair.

 

[burgerdog]

Now we wait for ps360 emulators in order to get a chance at experiencing Dogma at 1080p/60.

 

[Jawmuncher]

So many IPs would be dead more so than they are now if they ended up at Nintendo.

 

[Mesoian]

AAA standards and expectations have become one of the biggest hindrances to gaming.

Well...change AAA standards and expectations to relying on traditional thinking, and yes. You're right. Companies that plan and budge titles of a certain size for a specific audience correctly do fine, it's how compile heart stays in business.

But expecting your formally big IP to still sell big because it used to sell big, even though it has a bevy of problems is asinine.

 

[Kriken]

No DmC sequel then?

Spoiler

*pumps fist*

 

[Mesoian]

So many IPs would be dead more so than they are now if they ended up at Nintendo.

Not if they became Nintendo first person IP's.

I'm not saying that Bayonetta 2 is going to set the world on fire with sales, but if it breaks 300k US, I bet you we'll see Bayonetta 3 on Nintendo's next system.

Reasonable expectations? What is this madness?!

No seriously I agree, but I think the problem is that both the consumers and the execs (and marketing) have made it abundantly clear that there's little-to-no room for that nowadays. "Go big or go home" and all of that jazz.

Minecraft was more of a phenomenon that caught lightning in a bottle, and isn't reliably repeatable, to be fair.

Which is why Microsoft buying Mojang is lunacy to me.

 

[cnorwood]

To be fair, it's their job to make money while and by making gamers happy. It's pretty easy to rag on Sega when their big fall release is a PSO2 themed pachinko machine.

Yes you're right. I probably should said to make a small group of gamers happy

 

[LQX]

Dragon's Dogma had so much potential to be a big hit on PC. Of all the games not to get PC port...but heh, its Capcom.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

It depends if they think the reboot was the issue or the changes in the market since 2008 that have seen games in that genre generally go down quite a bit in sales.

How much did Metal Gear Rising sold ?

 

[corrosivefrost]

Welcome to the Capcom Graveyard:

Uh... LP2 got a sequel... you may have heard of it... Y'know, LP3?

Also, DMC3 got a sequel (DMC4) which in turn somehow got DmC greenlit. :\

But DmC? Yeah, that's now in the graveyard.

Oh, and you forgot Strider.

Wasn't DMC2 one of the best selling DMC games?

Funnily enough, yes.

 

[Nirolak]

How much did Metal Gear Rising sold ?

I don't think we ever got a clear answer, but based on what we know of NPD and Japanese sales and that the genre isn't as popular in Europe... probably over 1 million, but I'm not sure how much more. I'd be surprised if it got beyond 1.5 million, which is probably a bit optimistic.

Of course, I'm not account for PC sales or any digital copies (which are a pretty low percentage - often single digit - on consoles usually, especially last gen more so than this one).

 

[Mesoian]

Uh... LP2 got a sequel... you may have heard of it... Y'know, LP3?

Also, DMC3 got a sequel (DMC4) which in turn somehow got DmC greenlit. :\

But DmC? Yeah, that's now in the graveyard.

Oh, and you forgot Strider.

Though LP3 was doomed to fail. Even if you liked that game, it wasn't a Lost Planet game. It was like making a Halo 2 clone and calling it Dead Space 4.

Man, I honestly wonder how well Strider did. What a neat little game.

I don't think we ever got a clear answer, but based on what we know of NPD and Japanese sales and that the genre isn't as popular in Europe... probably over 1 million, but I'm not sure how much more. I'd be surprised if it got beyond 1.5 million, which is probably a bit optimistic.

Of course, I'm not account for PC sales or any digital copies (which are a pretty low percentage - often single digit - on consoles usually, especially last gen more so than this one).

Which, considering that game got 0 traditional marketing, is pretty good.

 

[Nirolak]

Which, considering that game got 0 traditional marketing, is pretty good.

Konami seemed happy at the time. It was a very fast turnaround project if you count starting from when Platinum got it, and I don't think it had a big team, so it was probably not very expensive.

 

[Mesoian]

Konami seemed happy at the time. It was a very fast turnaround project if you count starting from when Platinum got it, and I don't think it had a big team, so it was probably not very expensive.

I mean considering the shape that game was in before Platinum stepped in, the fact that the likelihood of the entire project being profitable is pretty good is nothing short of a miracle.

Someone is going to write a book about that game and it's project path.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

It's a singular instance, but in what universe does Okami 2 being on 3DS make any sense?

Do you mean okamiden and the DS?

Because the whole idea of drawing shapes using Okami/Chibis tail is one of the most obvious uses of a touch screen in gaming , and Okamiden was quite possibly the most impressive (graphically) DS game with a full 3d overworld and mostly in tact battle system.

(That the game was a major retread of Okami is another problem entirely, which possibly lent to the idea that , yeah, it was better to not release it on something already with okami playable.)

 

[Leafhopper]

How much did Metal Gear Rising sold ?

I wanna say 1.2 million. I know its not close 2 million though. Probably below 1.5. I remember seeing something about MGR being 1.2 million.

 

[corrosivefrost]

Though LP3 was doomed to fail. Even if you liked that game, it wasn't a Lost Planet game. It was like making a Halo 2 clone and calling it Dead Space 4.

Man, I honestly wonder how well Strider did. What a neat little game.

I haven't played LP3 yet, I've only played the original... so I'm not sure how to take that comment... I hear good things about LP3, but since you mentioned Halo 2, now I'm nervous.

And I don't know that Strider was in the sales figures I found from Capcom, but I hope it was a fucking disaster of epic proportions. What a dumpster fire... if i can find the numbers, I'll edit it in.

Edit:
http://www.capcom.co.jp/ir/english/business/million.html

As of June 30, 2014, less than 1m.

How much did Metal Gear Rising sold ?

The only info I could find came from a banned site; it seemed to indicate 1.6m worldwide prior to the PC release.

 

[Ridley327]

And people wonder why Capcom is so hesitant to invest in a AAA Monster Hunter title for consoles. As I mentioned in another thread, they should be thanking their lucky stars that the series has been such a massive ROI for them, because they'd be royally screwed without it.

 

[Mesoian]

Do you mean okamiden and the DS?

Because the whole idea of drawing shapes using Okami/Chibis tail is one of the most obvious uses of a touch screen in gaming , and Okamiden was quite possibly the most impressive (graphically) DS game with a full 3d overworld and mostly in tact battle system.

(That the game was a major retread of Okami is another problem entirely, which possibly lent to the idea that , yeah, it was better to not release it on something already with okami playable.)

In a world were they were porting Okami to every system under the sun save for the xbox, for the spiritual sequel to end up on a handheld is mindblowing.

And I thought that game looked like trash. Granted, I think Okami is one of the most beautiful games of the PS2 era. Like top 5.

I haven't played LP3 yet, I've only played the original... so I'm not sure how to take that comment... I hear good things about LP3, but since you mentioned Halo 2, now I'm nervous.

And I don't know that Strider was in the sales figures I found from Capcom, but I hope it was a fucking disaster of epic proportions. What a dumpster fire... if i can find the numbers, I'll edit it in.

I mean, real talk, LP3 is not a lost planet game, it is a Dead Space clone. It plays NOTHING like Lost Planet 1 and 2 and I was not interested in a generic, albeit extremely well directed, Dead Space clone. That could have been a really interesting new IP for them.

I liked Strider. I also didn't pay for Strider. I also bet the Playstation Plus deal Sony gave for Strider was enough to make that game profitable, though not by much.

 

[Mesoian]

.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

So did Revelations sell more than 2 million to warrant a sequel?

I hope this is not true, or atleast there are some exemptions to this case since I would love to play a sequel to Dragon's Dogma.

 

[Opiate]

I have to question if making the first game in a franchise AAA is even an intelligent move given Titanfall, Watch_Dogs, and Destiny are not doing as well as expected and the biggest new franchise in years, Minecraft, was made on an indie's budget. Seems like the better model would be to make a cheaper first game and then if it does well, raise expectations and budget for it. You know, reasonable expectations.

The big problem with this is that Minecraft emerged from a sea of literally tens of thousands of smaller games made by two people in their garages.

You can't tell which one will be Minecraft in advance. In a competition between Capcom and every tiny garage developer in the world, the garage developers will win, collectively.

Capcom's key strength that separates them from the thousands of upstart game developers is money. That's what they have that tiny iOS developers do not have. They may have more talent, but they may not. They may have a better idea, but they may not. What they definitely have more of is the ability to pump millions in to their projects that four-guys-in-a-garage can't possibly compete with.

The strength of big publishers is exactly that -- they're big -- and they're pushing their advantage.

 

[yurinka]

I'm surprised DmC sold 1.7 million copies. It was actually a good game and pretty fun. Too bad they don't count PS+ towards copies sold.

mmm... they use to count PC sales as a separated number don't they? Maybe adding PC sales + some money from PS+/future PSNow...

 

[Leafhopper]

Okami
under the sun

You planned that didn't you.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Konami seemed happy at the time. It was a very fast turnaround project if you count starting from when Platinum got it, and I don't think it had a big team, so it was probably not very expensive.

Which is what i thinking Capcom could do for DMC5 and see how it sells.
IMO the only company in that has any business sense in Japan is Bandai Namco .
There making all sort of games for everything and in many different ways .

 

[corrosivefrost]

So did Revelations sell more than 2 million to warrant a sequel?

I hope this is not true, or atleast there are some exemptions to this case since I would love to play a sequel to Dragon's Dogma.

It's not a full retail title though, right?
I thought I read that it was going to be episodic and it was something like $25 for the entire "season".

If that's true, I wouldn't think that the budget for the game rivals a traditional AAA game like RE6.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

RIP in peace Bionic Commando, Mega Man (X), Strider, Ghosts N Goblins, Omnishu, Devil May Cry, Viewtiful Joe, Dead Rising, Dragon's Dogma, Lost Planet, Dino Crisis, Onimusha, 19XX, Commando, Power Stone, Okami, Cyberbots, Breath of Fire, Final Fight, and soon because why not, Ace Attorney

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

No it isn't. DmC not doing that well on sales has been discussed on GAF for a long time.

I guess they didn't like new Dante enough.

Anyway I'm sad that DD is not going to have a sequel. It was flawed but in my top 5 of last gen.

 

[Ridley327]

It's not a full retail title though, right?
I thought I read that it was going to be episodic and it was something like $25 for the entire "season".

If that's true, I wouldn't think that the budget for the game rivals a traditional AAA game like RE6.

The first game was not super expensive, either. It didn't do great on the console releases, but the amount of money they spent on those ports was likely quite small.

 

[Verendus]

So Devil May Cry 5, Street Fighter V, Dragon's Dogma 2, Resident Evil 7/8/9, and Marvel vs. Capcom 3 are now confirmed.

Thank you, Ono.

 

[Joco]

And Capcom wanted DD to do 10 million in sales. Embarrassingly out of touch.

 

[Mesoian]

Which is what i thinking Capcom could do for DMC5 and see how it sells.
IMO the only company in that has any business sense in Japan is Bandai Namco .
There making all sort of games for everything and in many different ways .

Makes me wonder if CC2 would work with anyone except Bamco at this point.

A CC2 based action adventure game seems like the shot in the arm that Capcom needs right now.

CC2 should just make Megaman Legends 3.

I feel like I've said that before.

Megaman X9 to Yacht Club Games
Megaman Legends 3 to CC2
Itsuma heads up a new Capcom themed gal fighter
Resident Evil revelations 2
Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen to PC with mod tools
Capcom is saved.

I could do this job.

And Capcom wanted DD to do 10 million in sales. Embarrassingly out of touch.

If anyone outside of Rockstar or Nintendo says they expect their game to sell over 10 million units, they should not have their job. Period.

 

[RPGCrazied]

Okay, I guess Okami is doomed.

 

[joe2187]

Okay, I guess Okami is doomed.

Okamiden didnt sell 3 billion copies.

Also, clover who?